Okay you guys. I have been here for years, and we have gone no where on the topic of Israel. The pro Israelis are ready to fight on about the destruction of innocent lives and property. The pro Palestinians are ready to fight on about the destruction of innocent lives and property. We all claim to have the solution, kick out the palestinians, give them to the egyptians, the syrians. Kick out the Israelis, we owned that land for 2,000 years, what gives them the right to get it back? Well lets put our money where our mouths are. Lets see, if we the civilized people from wherever the hell were all from can come together and make a deal where we all benefit. I don't want to only hear the same old crud about settlements, guilt, death etc... Thats not working now. It hasn't worked for more then sixty years it sure as hell isn't going to work for the next one hundred. Im not saying we shouldn't address those issues. But how about we start addressing the rift between the two people. Lets start in Israel itself, whats the old saying "dont point out the splinter in someones eye without pulling out the log in yours?" I think the best way to start is to look to the future. Schools and education. That means integrating not just classes but teachers as well. The most resistance for this may come from the orthodox groups of both religions, they want schools specialized for their respective religion, having a mixed school would seem disrespectful to the both of them and unacceptable. So the best hope is for the non orthodox. That means integrating the teachers which is difficult because of the barriers. The reason I say this is because the children are innocent. Thats the greatest age to eliminate racism and prejudice. To a child, anyone that makes them smile becomes a friend, and friends especially best friends can bridge borders and barriers. If we want to fix the past, we need to start with the future. Look, both sides need to understand each other. Each side thinks the other is the devil on some level. Neither is right, and so long as they think that no one can win. I think on a more strategic scale what should happen is that Israel needs to stop with the damn settlements. I cannot imagine why Israel needs those settlements. It may not be a big country, but just how much space do they need? On top of this we need the formation of a Palestinian group of people in Israel. Basically, they need to be the voice of the Palestinians in Israel. Not the ones out of Israel but the ones in Israel. They are the ones the Israeli government will talk to. They will come up with a list of grievances, some will be ridiculous, but all must be considered. In return this new Palestinian group needs to try, and sincerely try to help to bridge the gap between the two groups. Remember you guys, we need to start with small steps. If we try anything drastic then the rift will become ever wider and we will have failed. To that end I will try, hopefully with the help of an admin, to be a moderator. Basically, if anyone suggests something too drastic for either side, such as forcing the Palestinians into Syria, then I will say that basically it was too drastic and they failed and have done more damage then good. So lets try an bridge our differences and think out of the box. After all if we try and approach this the same way everyone else has then we will be simply repeating the actions and mistakes of people whom have prolonged this conflict. Here is my hypothesis: Jews and Muslims did not hate each other before the Jews returned to Israel and they sure as hell do not have to do so now. So, do you think we can prove that hypothesis? Or are we destined for mutual destruction?
the fear is the key. break that and the cards can start to fall. most will say the hate but trust me dealing with the fear is the key. one idea is to create a program where palestinian and jewish israeli kids where are put together and trained to be leaders side by side. teach them to lead together build friendships. people are much less inclined to be hateful and cruel to people when they can go fuck that hurts my friends.
Good point. Fear kills, its easy to hate and fear what you do not understand. When you understand something, understand its nature you do not fear it anymore. This is a good start. We need to eliminate fear. I think we need to start by targeting moderates. When I was in Israel this past summer there were two groups of Israelis, the orthodox and the non secular group, there was a surprising lack of an in between group. I don't know how much this applies to the Palestinians. But if we can target the moderates, the non secular people that are not orthodox then they will be more willing to come together.
I don't know if there are any Palestinian only peace groups in Israel. But there are at least two Arab-Jewish peace groups worth mentioning One is Ta'yush operated out of Timrat in Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta'ayush http://www.taayush.org/?page_id=61 Another one is Hand in Hand, which operates mixed schools with bilingual education for Palestinians and Jews in Israel [as opposed to the segregated ones that are the status quo] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_in_Hand:_Center_for_Jewish_Arab_Education_in_Israel There is also Brit Shalom/Tahalof Essalam and Peace Now (Shalom Achshav) which has mixed members, but I am not sure exactly what it is they do.
Okay. So we have a start with education. That is not nearly enough to finish the job. How do we continue? We need to create a country where people realize that the whole idea of hating each other solely because they have been told to by other people is silly.
If a person kills to get revenge for the death of a friend at the hands of the enemy. And then that person gets killed by the enemy out of vengeance because he killed someone else's friend. And then that person gets killed out of vengeance. Then where in that cycle is there the opportunity to end it?
Two brothers fighting. The ritual of saving a brother has to happen first and then the family can reunite as one . One Voice! one earth!
You need a spanking for your potty mouth . Never and I mean never say never. It only gets you in more trouble !!
Maybe they want to kill you because you hate them or think your self better than them. Listen to the Egyptian on the street , You might hear something you have not heard before? Brake the bonds of time loops and that starts with your self. I will start with my self, except I like to torment you. It is fun to me. Tell him Sara
I have personally broken the bonds of religious irrational hatred. Can you end Islam? The natural outcome of religions is worldwide nuclear war.
That is funny a person just told me there is only 2 emotions " Love and Fear" hate grows out of fear. Hate can grow out of love too I suspect. Like the feelings you are not loved , now that can cause a butt load of hate. Yeah look at the child abused by there parent and how hateful they can become by the vicious cycle of abusive home life. Hard to undue patterns of first impressions in a persons life. I think maybe it is a built in response mechanism of the hurt that is induced . Like a survival tool as not to get hurt anymore by hurting instead. Like Me I don't get stress. I give stress .
Gold star for that one spidy Man . That must be why you can crawl up buildings . ... I am not sure about the natural out come like you think. I like to believe the natural out come will be the evolution of information and braking down silo's of that information there by moving humanity to a mutual understanding of respect by that very information that is locked up in the vaults of government bureaucracies. Where as the common person is realizing we have more in common than we realized , but yet we are pitted against each other by the information our governments leak out to the common people like the trickle of a grain silo. I think that is what is going on in Egypt. They found out by social net works that they are the same as the rest of us common people . That is what I think. People in power structures do what ever they can to keep there cushy jobs and they fight like hell to protect there particular silo's of information so as to preserve there own department. They even go so far as to make sure they spend all the money in a given year so they can apply for more the following year. . Yeah Man . True . I seen it to many times with the 2 slits of my own Eyes. I might start recording such events as they unfold so the science can't be disputed. I don't think I have to though for I am sure you all really know this simple truth. What do you do to shore up your own departments in life? Maybe the problem is us. "Gather information " " Pass on Information" Freedom to think !! Give Me a Think Yeah!! Give Me a Freedom Yeah!! All together Now "Give Me Freedom to Think" Yeah Man !!!!!
Most Egyptians are poor and cannot afford internet access, so I doubt "social media" was a big factor. And after their revolution will they will only be more likely to attack Israel, not less, considering the peace agreements Egypt has so far respected.
what about apathy? :shrug: You guys, this isn't a philosophy debate, this is a real tangible thing. People have tried conventional methods for the past 60 years and they have failed miserably. But we have one advantage. We don't know each other face to face. We exist on this forum independent of race, language, skincolor. etc... So lets try this unconventionally and see what we can do.
Here's an idea: invade and occupy Israel/ Palestine by an international force, set up fair borders between opposing factions, enforce for 50 years or so until it's settled.
not with that fucking attitude. there are to kinds of people those that say this is the way things are and we need to live it and those that say this is the way the world should be and try and make it so.
