Strange but true, according to a new idea on the evolution of ocean going rays. (It sounds crazy I know). Robotic models show how the lifting body shape of the ray means it can fly through water Robotic Ray Swims in Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vT-oidWyXE&feature=related) as well as air Robotic Ray Flies in Air (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPzodKQays). It this occurred in reality, then the claspers (http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/sharks&rays/claspers.htm) used by male rays (and sharks) in their mating are the obvious and logical choice for the ability to perch on a branch like the birds. The alternative would be modified pelvic fins, existing in both females and males. Extraordinary as it may seem, if these modified organs could clasp, could they not begin to walk?? Could an evolved (hypothetical) species of flying ray have favoured land running at night before entering it's nearby large body of water to hunt along the bottom. In this unique case, then it could explain the strange eye-witness accounts of the creatures standing up and running away on their hind legs.

I encountered a werewolf (lack of better description) in England in 1970, I was 20 yrs old when I was stationed at RAF Alconbury. I was in a secure weapons storage area when i encountered it. It seemed shocked and surprized to been caught off guard and I froze in total fright.I was armed with a .38 and never once considered using it. There was no aggression on its part. I could not comprehend what I was seeing.It is not human. It has a flat snout and large eyes.It's height is approx 5 ft and weight approx.200 lbs.It is very muscular and thin. It wore no clothing and was only moderately hairy. It ran away on its hind legs and scurried over a chain link fence and ran deep into the dense wooded area adjacent to the base. I was extremely frightened but the fear developed into a total commitment of trying to contact it again..I was obsessed with it. I was able to see it again a few weeks later at a distance in the wooded area. I watched it for about 30 seconds slowly moving throught the woods and I will never forget my good fortune to encounter it.... and to know this "creature" truly does lives among us. (Quote from: Nick Redfern's Do Werewolves Roam The Woods Of England? (http://monsterusa.blogspot.com/2007/05/do-werewolves-roam-woods-of-england.html))

Have I gone mad? :shrug:

Prediction: A rays' claspers turn from white to black as a prominent show of their sexual intent. (Eye-witness accounts of cornish owlman describe large black pincers).

Have I gone mad? :shrug:

Yes.
Can I ask what age you are?

From the article quoted "I was armed with a .38". Oh yeah, really? By 1970, the Enfield .38 had been replaced by the 9mm Browning Hi Power. Enfield .38s had officially been retired in 1963.

That stuck out like a sore thumb in the details. Do you never verify any facts before posting?

From the article quoted "I was armed with a .38". Oh yeah, really? By 1970, the Enfield .38 had been replaced by the 9mm Browning Hi Power. Enfield .38s had officially been retired in 1963....

so when a gun is retired they round up and take all the ones that people already have? :shrug:

Do you never verify any facts before posting?He's making wild claims about an area of biology he has no clue about and his evidence is a bloody werewolf encounter! I'd say its pretty damn obvious he doesn't verify any facts before posting whatever ill conceived incoherent mumbo jumbo has come into his head today. Last month it was all about the fractal gravity and ice ages, now its all about evolutionary biology. Next month he'll be 'solving' the fundamental questions of quantum chemistry, sociology and knitting.

Isn't it obvious how CSS's mind works? He can't grasp or master anything so he jumps around topics on the fringe of modern science in the hopes that people will think his random unsupported musings are in some way not the worthless nonsense they are.

so when a gun is retired they round up and take all the ones that people already have? :shrug:

Duh, yeah, or some regiments would still have muskets, ...

The Enfiled .38 was OLD. It was a flip top design, ammunition was more rare then rocking horse shit.

It was replaced by the Browning Hi Power using 9mm ammunition.

Duh, yeah, or some regiments would still have muskets, ...

The Enfiled .38 was OLD. It was a flip top design, ammunition was more rare then rocking horse shit.

It was replaced by the Browning Hi Power using 9mm ammunition.

Oh, I didn't realize it was military. My bad

had officially been retired in 1963Officially, then. Of course it's been verified, Nick Redfern represents the Center for Fortean Cryptozoology (CFZ), the biggest organisation of its kind. Send your protestations to them: CFZ (http://www.cfz.org.uk/beta/index.htm). btw where's your verification? Why would someone make this up anyway? Don't judge everyone else by your own standards.

Officially, then. Of course it's been verified, Nick Redfern represents the Center for Fortean Cryptozoology (CFZ), the biggest organisation of its kind. Send your protestations to them: CFZ (http://www.cfz.org.uk/beta/index.htm). btw where's your verification? Why would someone make this up anyway? Don't judge everyone else by your own standards.

Look it up in a reputable source yourself. I had suspicions about your article because I've used a few military firearms and the timeline doesn't fit. I checked out a few facts and I was right. Now, stop reposting shit without checking your facts.

I'm not going to protest to the CFZ, 'cos it's not them stinking up the place, it's YOU.

Oh, and I will judge people by my standards. MY standards are to verify facts before posting.

Why would someone make this up? Why do people make this crap up? To make money, get attention, because they are liars, like winding people up, or because they suffer from some mental affliction, would be my first guesses.

I'll send Nick an email to see if he will give a reply in the forum and confirm the authenticity of the quoted sighting. Happy?

Officially, then. Of course it's been verified, It's a bloody werewolf encounter! It hasn't been verified any more than other kinds of pseudoscience and mythological claims. If it were verified it wouldn't be mythology, it'd be fact. It wouldn't be conjecture and stories, it'd be repeated observations, documented and verified by several independent unbiased groups.

Nick Redfern represents the Center for Fortean Cryptozoology (CFZ), the biggest organisation of its kind. And the Catholic Church is the largest organisation of its kind. Can I therefore infer you're a catholic? A lot of people having an opinion doesn't make it true.

Someone telling him the story doesn't make it true. And even if the person recounting the story isn't being dishonest it doesn't mean he saw what he thought he saw. How many people have 'seen something in the shadows' only to get up close and realise its something utterly different? And then of course there are some people who are just plain nuts.

Why would someone make this up anyway? Yes, why would anyone lie or tell fibs or bend the truth? It's like claiming you've got a simple explaination for quantum gravity and then never producing an iota of work or results or anything to back up your big fat mouth. Why would anyone say something like that to get attention?

Well?

Don't judge everyone else by your own standards. Yes, you obviously have different standards than some other people here. Numerous times you've made claims you can't or won't back up. You've postulated 'explainations' for things when you have nothing but 2 or 3 sentences as 'justification'. You make claims about areas of work you know nothing about. You think that because someone can write a website it must be true!

Some of us expect evidence for claims. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. Encounters with werewolves? 'Simple' explainations for the ice age, quantum gravity and the Pioneer anomaly? Yeah, those are extraordinary. And the evidence? Extraordinarily absent.

I get the feeling the reason you tell us not to judge others by our standards is we have standards.

Oh, so Phlog doesn't have to provide a simple link to a reference about his/her firearms claim? Double standards AN.

Given its a matter of military record what firearms are and aren't provided to soldiers its something which can easily be checked if someone so wishes, it is clear the information is out there. The story in your original post is quite different.

Further more, you are chronic in your claims about things you never ever back up. Would you care to address any of the points I raise or aren't you able to admit you're full of crap?

I'm waiting for a reply from CFZ to clarify the reliability of the eye-witness report. What more can I do?

How about spending some time in other threads justifying your random and grand claims about all these models and ideas like 'New-Newtonian Tidal Theory' or 'Fractal gravity' you keep banding about. Haven't you managed to get past the 'Lets make up a vacuous acronym for an idea which doesn't exist!" stage yet?

So a non-mathematical approach to problem solving is 'random' is it? You're getting very predictable.

Edit: The connection with the phenomenon of the "Devil's Footprints" (http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/england/devon/other-mysteries/the-devils-footprints.html) is worth stating and they have just reappeared: Satan's footprints spotted in Devon (Oct 15 2009) (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2317157/Satans-footprints-spotted-in-Devon.html).

I saw the Devil's footprints 20 years ago down in South Spain at a beach, at full moon, in Barbate. He sure gets around :)

Pensioner Jill woke to find the marks in fresh snow in her back garden in Woolsery.

She said: "I couldn't believe it - the footprints were in the shape of a cloven hoof. There were no other marks at all in the snow. I'd love to know what it was."

Scientists from the Centre for Fortean Zoology inspected the prints, which were 5ins long with a stride of between 11 and 17ins.

So a non-mathematical approach to problem solving is 'random' is it? You're getting very predictable.
I think that when you know nothing about the current theoretical models, don't know any observations or experimental results, deliberately avoid all sources of information which are pitched at a level above the understanding of a layperson and cannot provide anything other than the most tenious link between an effect and a supposed cause then yes, I think it's 'random' because you have no way of weighing up the likelihoods or grasping other possible explainations.

The jigsaw fits like a glove. The 'manta-man' runs low on energy flying in a weak wind. On ocassion it will land and follow its route home by use of the earth's magnetic field. Hence the trail of cloven 5 inch pincer marks made by hopping along single-footedly like a kangaroo. Hopefully Prof John Burnside, poet and author of 'The Devil's Footprints' novel will appreciate the work.

I'm waiting for a reply from CFZ to clarify the reliability of the eye-witness report. What more can I do?Here's a copy of emails so far:

I need help explaining CFZ in a science forum‏
From: Alan Lowey (amlowey@hotmail.co.uk)
Sent: 17 October 2009 09:54:21
To: nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net

Hi Nick,

We've spoken before. Perhaps you can help out in this science forum. I'm getting heckled by someone disclaiming the authenticity of a werewolf sighting. Can you help?

Best wishes,

Alan Lowey


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jon@eclipse.co.uk
To: amlowey@hotmail.co.uk
Subject: Re: I need help explaining CFZ in a science forum
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:26:19 +0100


Hi Alan,


I have to say that I don't know anything about the case. Nick Redfern is an old and dear friend of mine, and I trust his research implicity. If hee has printed that story as eyewitness testimony, then it is what was told to him. I can vouch for Nick, but not for the veracity of his eyewitnesses, and would suggest that you write to him on nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net for some background on the case.

As far as the debate about guns on the thread, I know nothing about them I am afraid. Good luck

j

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Lowey
To: jon@eclipse.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: I need help explaining CFZ in a science forum


Hi Jon,

I'm a CFZ subscriber and keen armchair cryptozoologist. I've started a forum thread in sciforums.com and have been subject to a barage of negativity. Can you take a look and defend the authenticity of this quote please, which was taken from Nick Redfern's site:

"I encountered a werewolf (lack of better description) in England in 1970, I was 20 yrs old when I was stationed at RAF Alconbury. I was in a secure weapons storage area when i encountered it. It seemed shocked and surprized to been caught off guard and I froze in total fright.I was armed with a .38 and never once considered using it. There was no aggression on its part. I could not comprehend what I was seeing.It is not human. It has a flat snout and large eyes.It's height is approx 5 ft and weight approx.200 lbs.It is very muscular and thin. It wore no clothing and was only moderately hairy. It ran away on its hind legs and scurried over a chain link fence and ran deep into the dense wooded area adjacent to the base. I was extremely frightened but the fear developed into a total commitment of trying to contact it again..I was obsessed with it. I was able to see it again a few weeks later at a distance in the wooded area. I watched it for about 30 seconds slowly moving throught the woods and I will never forget my good fortune to encounter it.... and to know this "creature" truly does lives among us."

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2386047&posted=1#post2386047

Much appreciated,

Alan Lowey

The jigsaw fits like a glove. .
No, you have a completely flimsy explaination you find acceptable but you have no evidence and no reason to think your explaination is any more valid than any other which is at least superficially valid.

Hopefully Prof John Burnside, poet and author of 'The Devil's Footprints' novel will appreciate the work. What is it with you and emailing people with your baseless opinions and guesses? Rather than badgering other people with your claims why don't you spend your time more constructively by learning some area of science and then trying to do actual research in it. You have an astronomy degree (or so you claim), why don't you refamiliarise yourself with it and try to come up with a bit more than vacuous acronyms in terms of your claims about solar bulges and orbital precessions? That way you learn something and you stop harassing people who've been willing to do the work you haven't.

Here's a few related links: Manta Ray Tampa Bay - Can You See the Rainbow on His Skin? (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27457302@N07/2896276889/in/photostream/) and Amphibious Fish Breathe Air and Walk Around (http://marinebiologyoceanography.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_mangrove_fish_and_mudskippers_live_on_land).

Here's Nick's email reply:

Re: RAF Alconbury 'Werewolf' Sighting‏
From: Nicholas Redfern (nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net)
Sent: 20 October 2009 12:15:38
To: Alan Lowey (amlowey@hotmail.co.uk)

Hi Alan

Okay, I know the one you mean now.

As you'll seem this story came from a chap named Wes, who claimed to have had the sighting.

No, I can't "defend the authenticity", as that person asks/suggests.

Mainly because it was just a comment posted to my blog, and with no way to contact the source direct.

As you'll see, a couple of comment below his comment, I thanked him - mainly because (if true) I figured it might put him at ease re opening up more - however, he never commented again.

The comment about defending the authenticity is kind of weird, because there's no way to verify it. It's just a practically anonymous comment someone submitted to my blog, which happens all the time.

Of course, if someone makes it possible for me to contact them, then I would definitely have investigated it. But, as it stands, it's just a story from one person, with absolutely no verification, and no investigation undertaken by me.

Re bodies of water near the Cannock Chase - there is Chasewater, which is a 3KM Square reservoir in Burntwood, which is near the Chase.

Best,
Nick



--- On Tue, 10/20/09, Alan Lowey <amlowey@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


From: Alan Lowey <amlowey@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RAF Alconbury 'Werewolf' Sighting
To: "Nick Redfern" <nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 3:54 AM


Hi again Nick,
Thanks for taking the time to help. The link to the forum is given at the bottom of this email. I'm interested in the quote given by a MoD employee who had a close-up encounter in a weapons depot. Firstly, did you talk to him personally and secondly, is there a large body of water in the vacinity similar to Chasewater being close to Cannock Chase? I have a new theory that these 'werewolves' may orginate from the depths of the sea and feed on crustaceans and fish etc.

Hope you had a good conference,
All the best,
Alan


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:13:21 -0700
From: nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: I need help explaining CFZ in a science forum
To: amlowey@hotmail.co.uk

Hey Alan
I'm in Boston right now for a conference, and only got limited net access. But do please let me know what the case is and what the person is saying and I'll be glad to help. I may not have net access after today until I get home tuesday, but will reply soon as I get chance.
Best
Nick



--- On Sat, 10/17/09, Alan Lowey <amlowey@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


From: Alan Lowey <amlowey@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: I need help explaining CFZ in a science forum
To: nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net
Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 4:54 AM


Hi Nick,

We've spoken before. Perhaps you can help out in this science forum. I'm getting heckled by someone disclaiming the authenticity of a werewolf sighting. Can you help?

Best wishes,

Alan Lowey
And also:
Re: RAF Alconbury 'Werewolf' Sighting‏
From: Nicholas Redfern (nick_redfern@sbcglobal.net)
Sent: 20 October 2009 12:22:28
To: Alan Lowey (amlowey@hotmail.co.uk)

Hey Alan

I forgot to say, I do have this one on file too re weirdness at RAF Alconbury:

http://www.ghostvillage.com/ghostcommunity/index.php?showtopic=1560&mode=threaded&pid=22282

This is from another site, and not part of anything I have investigated, however.

Best
Nic

Here's the latest 2010 sightings:Fresh sighting of UFO's and Werewolves on Cannock Chase (http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2010/01/13/fresh-sighting-of-ufo-s-and-werewolves-on-cannock-chase-66331-25589705/)