View Full Version : Lay it all on the line...


Taken
12-09-01, 07:56 PM
I don't want to know anything about what you DON'T believe...just what you DO believe...
All scientific theory aside no equations or aproximations, no religouse indoctrinations or Bible verses...
For instance Jefferson wrote:


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;


Now that sums up a lot in a very simple statement. I ask each of you to sum up or elaborate YOUR basic beliefs on the matter of human purpose and meaning of life with no scientific formulas or biblical qoutes or indoctrinated knowledge but just what you in selfsearching and in your heart of hearts hold to be true in YOUR OWN words.

"If [God] has made it a law in the nature of man to pursue his own happiness, He has left him free in the choice of place as well as mode, and we may safely call on the whole body of English jurists to produce the map on which nature has traced for each individual the geographical line which she forbids him to cross in pursuit of happiness." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817.

"Being myself a warm zealot for the attainment and enjoyment by all mankind of as much liberty as each may exercise without injury to the equal liberty of his fellow citizens, I have lamented that... the endeavors to obtain this should have been attended with the effusion of so much blood." --Thomas Jefferson to Jean Nicholas Demeunier, 1795

[Tony I ask of you as a fellow believer and knowing full well that the word of God is not only your basis for your life but life itself to you to adhere to this request when you reply to this post. It will in fact hold to a greater purpose when all is said and done. I implore you to cooperate.]

Cris
12-10-01, 12:23 AM
Taken,

I believe, and I can offer evidence for every statement, that –

1. Every human suffers from a currently incurable disease known as aging.

2. I have this disease.

3. Every religionist expects to cheat death.

4. I will avoid death but not through religion.

5. Current scientific research is close to finding a cure to the aging disease.

6. Religious influenced politicians might delay this research – such an act is immoral.

7. I will be able to benefit from this research in my current expected lifetime.

8. When aging is cured, further biological procreation should be discouraged, until we can leave the planet.

9. With women gaining increasing equality with men the family unit is declining in popularity.

10. The freedom and rights of the individual will become the new paradigm for society to replace the family.

11. Humans have existed for an insignificant time compared to the age of the universe.

12. The usual lifetime duration of an individual human is even more insignificant.

13. Being so new, the human race is at the very beginning of its evolutionary existence.

14. Biological life is extremely fragile and is locked into the bio cycle of the planet.

15. If the planet is damaged or destroyed then the human race will cease to exist.

16. To survive long-term the human race must evolve beyond biological limitations.

17. Dinosaurs became extinct but lasted longer than humans did and we remain susceptible to planetary disasters in the same way.

18. Rapid increases in computer technology hold the key to our next evolutionary leap.

19. The singularity (the introduction of super-intelligence) is inevitable.

20. Humans who acquire super-intelligence will survive; the rest have no long-term future.

21. The future of the human race lies off planet but in the form of virtually indestructible independent non-biological individuals.

22. There is no inherent meaning to life until man creates a meaning.

23. Religions and similar superstitions are rapidly losing their influence as science replaces ignorance with knowledge (the meaning and purpose of science).

24. An omnipotent omniscient god cannot exist; the claimed attributes form a paradox that results in an impossibility.

25. An afterlife cannot exist since humans are entirely material as shown by millions of clinical studies, especially concerning the brain.

26. Religions and especially Christianity represent among the greatest dangers to the survival of the human race since they encourage ignorance in place of knowledge.

Ran out of time. I can add more if you like.

Cris

Bambi
12-10-01, 03:05 AM
Chris has good points. Though I'm not as optimistic about my lifetime personally.

Purpose and meaning are creations of sentience, and are not endemic to the universe, because: sentience cannot lie at the root of existence, as it in itself is far too complex and dependent upon a more fundamental substrate for its definition and function, therefore: the universe is primary while all other phenomena including sentience and life are secondary and woven from the fabric of the universe.

We as living sentient beings are a grade of complexity above the matter/energy/space/time that gives us definition. However, our present grasp and vision of existence is primitive (as are our capabilities for such.) We are not the ultimate achievement or the end of the road; we are still at the beginning, both of our known universe and of life's future and legacy.

The search for meaning and purpose is as much without as it is within. It cannot be resolved sans an understanding of the context -- the universe itself and its manifestations. The universe is a wonder of wonders, our presence in it a smaller wonder, and a life in it an adventure of (excuse the horrible pun) a lifetime.

No adventure can be enjoyed or pursued without freedom or opportunity. Therefore, pursuing and enabling those two qualities is a vital necessity.

Cris
12-10-01, 03:15 AM
Bambi,

Awright.

I think enjoying the journey of life, with all its ups and downs, is the very least we can do, until perhaps one day we reach a destination. But I don't want that to happen for a long time yet.

Have fun
Cris

MuliBoy
12-10-01, 09:27 AM
Every moment alive is immortality.
Everything that can be imagined excists.
Excistance is meaning to itself.
There is no evil. Evil is a mask of fear.
Everything is.

tony1
12-15-01, 03:56 AM
*Originally posted by Taken
Tony I ask of you as a fellow believer and knowing full well that the word of God is not only your basis for your life but life itself to you to adhere to this request when you reply to this post. It will in fact hold to a greater purpose when all is said and done. I implore you to cooperate.*

Sure.
Jesus Christ is Lord and every knee will bow to him and every tongue will confess that he is Lord.