Israel targets Hamas leaders, Hamas, to be expected, responds with another bloody bomb attack near an army base...., Tomorrow we can expect Israel to do some retalliation etc etc etc ...

This has been going on for years and it will likely continue the same sad shit. Anybody here truely believes that this hardline tactics will ultimately pay off, lead to something ??? or just maintaining some bloody status quo ???

Aside from the moral aspects, Is it realistic to think that that the total destruction of Hamas or the Israeli entity, or even the Palestinian entity can be accomplished ???
:bugeye:


some people think the latest tragic incidents create the momentum to ban Arafat...
But than What??? A palestine ship without a captain ? Hamas would have a field day, essentially I think only lovers of full scale warfare on both sides would think this is a desirable option or???

some people think the latest tragic incidents create the momentum to ban Arafat...
But than What??? A palestine ship without a captain ? Hamas would have a field day,

And Israel for that same reason should not be so cocky as she is right now about these ridicolous talk of expelling Arafat. Hamas is #1 on the Pals. street right now (I don't know if P.A is #1 anymore) that represents a shift in Pals. attitude and it's indicative of the Arab mood in the streets. Secularism is not getting them anywhere, and more dangerous and determined religious element. The Islamic revolution of 1979 seems like a road map for many here now. Replace the secular leaders painting them as puppets (Abbas) and not in the interests of Islam. Is that what Israel wants? I doubt it, Sharon and his neo-cons should think twice about there measures. It could have massive conseqences.

oh....Hamas........

it is the most fundamentalist fanatic element of 'palestinian' society, and it is ARMED TO ITS TEETH. doesn't anyone see a problem with that?

its goal: destruction of Israel as we know it and establishing an Islamic state on the lands of where Israel is now.

its worst enemy: "negotiating with the enemy"

its tactics: "if you're not in complete agreement with us, you must be an israeli collaborator. we will lynch you" and they literally lynch people... and hang their bodies in public places for ppl to see.

their logos: "Allah will reward you in heaven".....and "God is great"

Israel has no choice but to respond. hamas can't expect anything less than a retaliation if they blow ppl up in the hearts of metropolitan cities.

Time to send in the Golani Brigade and see how much Hamas and the cowards like to play with soldiers ready to battle.

Ok, I am sure the Golani brigade will kick some serious ass, but after the blood is spilled and the smoke clears, what have we gained ? Does it somehow break the circle of violence? Will it prevent future bombings ?

If we assume that Hamas has this religious agenda that calls for the total destruction of israel without room for negotiation, than it would take no less than the total destruction of:

A. Hamas (by collaboration of israel / palestine "authority" less will probably not do), given the current state of affairs not very likely

or

B. all palestines (hey it's a valid option, we dutch colonists extinct all dodo birds during 1598-1681 and truth be told: these nasty birds don't bug us any longer)

or.

C. build a huge chinese wall around the country and expel any pally.


D. other options that I might not have thought of.

Wich option do you think is feasible ?

Solution is civil war, to get a situation of natural destruction, peace is just a prelude to war. I've never trusted peace, remember Hitler was a result of "peace". Utter and complete destruction seems to be the only answer in this region. I cannot feasibly see a solution that is neogatiated too many extremists around on both sides. Since neither Israel nor the Pals. seem to be serious on state recongnition we are going down a roadmap to war.

solution: dismantle hamas and other terrorists. let dialogue take course. this worked as we saw in the past.

otherwise, it's side A negotiating with side B, about side C (not accountable to any side). where's the logic in that?

as for sending in Golani... bad idea. that would mean endangering more israeli lives. i say they should have used a bigger bomb a few days ago when they literally had THE MOST powerful men in Hamas in one room...

continue with these strikes from the air. no more israeli lives should be put at risk

Solution...Israel gets illegal settlements out of the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinians form viable state. End of terror.

Easy right??

But Sharon and the right wing fanatics want the land-not peace.

So it goes on and on.

Originally posted by Vortexx
Israel targets Hamas leaders, Hamas, to be expected, responds with another bloody bomb attack near an army base...., Tomorrow we can expect Israel to do some retalliation etc etc etc ...

This has been going on for years and it will likely continue the same sad shit. Anybody here truely believes that this hardline tactics will ultimately pay off, lead to something ??? or just maintaining some bloody status quo ???

Aside from the moral aspects, Is it realistic to think that that the total destruction of Hamas or the Israeli entity, or even the Palestinian entity can be accomplished ???
:bugeye:


some people think the latest tragic incidents create the momentum to ban Arafat...
But than What??? A palestine ship without a captain ? Hamas would have a field day, essentially I think only lovers of full scale warfare on both sides would think this is a desirable option or???

You have the sequence backwards. Hamas attacks with a bloody bomb attack, and then as a response, Israel targets Hamas leaders.

It is always important to keep the cause and effect in the proper order. It is Hamas that is the instigators.

Originally posted by Vortexx
Israel targets Hamas leaders, Hamas, to be expected, responds with another bloody bomb attack near an army base...., Tomorrow we can expect Israel to do some retalliation etc etc etc ...

This has been going on for years and it will likely continue the same sad shit. Anybody here truely believes that this hardline tactics will ultimately pay off, lead to something ??? or just maintaining some bloody status quo ???

Aside from the moral aspects, Is it realistic to think that that the total destruction of Hamas or the Israeli entity, or even the Palestinian entity can be accomplished ???
:bugeye:


some people think the latest tragic incidents create the momentum to ban Arafat...
But than What??? A palestine ship without a captain ? Hamas would have a field day, essentially I think only lovers of full scale warfare on both sides would think this is a desirable option or???

You have the sequence backwards. Hamas attacks with a bloody bomb attack, and then as a response, Israel targets Hamas leaders.

It is always important to keep the cause and effect in the proper order. It is Hamas that is the instigators.

Originally posted by Vortexx
Israel targets Hamas leaders, Hamas, to be expected, responds with another bloody bomb attack near an army base...., Tomorrow we can expect Israel to do some retalliation etc etc etc ...

This has been going on for years and it will likely continue the same sad shit. Anybody here truely believes that this hardline tactics will ultimately pay off, lead to something ??? or just maintaining some bloody status quo ???

Aside from the moral aspects, Is it realistic to think that that the total destruction of Hamas or the Israeli entity, or even the Palestinian entity can be accomplished ???
:bugeye:


some people think the latest tragic incidents create the momentum to ban Arafat...
But than What??? A palestine ship without a captain ? Hamas would have a field day, essentially I think only lovers of full scale warfare on both sides would think this is a desirable option or???

You have the sequence backwards. Hamas attacks with a bloody bomb attack, and then as a response, Israel targets Hamas leaders.

It is always important to keep the cause and effect in the proper order. It is Hamas that is the instigators.

Solution...Israel gets illegal settlements out of the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinians form viable state. End of terror.

Easy right??

you need to negotiate the terms.. and no terms can be negotiated while you got hamas blowing israelis up.

But Sharon and the right wing fanatics want the land-not peace.

you think Sharon is fanatic? you have no idea of israeli politics then.
did you know that Sharon gets constant life threats from the extreme-right fanatics because he's being "too soft" and "promising to give up Jewish land"?

some ppl are so clueless

How can Israel not expect bombings when they continue to build settlements, blow up homes, raze trees and fields, kill and maim numerous innocent Palestinians in their continuous assasinations?

Remember the Palestinians agreed to a cease fire...the Israelis refused the ceasefire. The Israeli leadership wants war because it allows them to steal land.

And when you occupy a people for 35 years, you build illegal settlements, move your people onto others lands and conduct collective punishment....you have to expect the natives to fight back.

It is simple...the Israelis are occupying and taking land that isn't theirs while driving off the people that own the land. It is form of slow, steady and brutal ethnic cleansing.

I can't understand how anybody can't see something so obvious.
Although after seeing how many gullible people actually believed Bush about WMD , maybe I shouldn't be too surprised.

you think Sharon is fanatic? you have no idea of israeli politics then.
did you know that Sharon gets constant life threats from the extreme-right fanatics because he's being "too soft" and "promising to give up Jewish land"?

some ppl are so clueless

Ummmm....the whole world, outside of America, recognizes Sharon as a right wing, blood thirsty fanatic.

The only ones who don't see Sharon as a fanatic are right wing fanatics thenselves or clueless right wing Americans.

Israel cannot expect peace and give shit all in return. This seems to be the mentality here, Israeal can attack the Pals. at anytime it seems yet when the Pals. attack in return it is a grave moral act. This double standard here is sickening to death, not to mention the fact of the proposed Pals. state in 1999 supposedly the great plan:

http://mondediplo.com/maps/IMG/arton2076.jpg

I can draw a relation to South Africa's bantustans and that is what that is. How can peace be expected if we don't have a internationalized Jerusalem? If the settlements are changing the Green line of 1967. I have yet to hear a viable plan for a real viable pals. state. Also if u notice that the Pals. don't even get access to the River Jordan! :rolleyes:

Biblethmp, maybe the sequence is indeed wrong, maybe not, if you want to backtrack all these chains of events, you might end up in 1948 and you may not like the anwer, or you could go even further back in time with aid of the bible and find a favourable answer for who started it....

Surely is not going to help to change the status quo.

Do we want to keep ponting fingers or do we want to shake hands?

Originally posted by Vortexx
Biblethmp, maybe the sequence is indeed wrong, maybe not, if you want to backtrack all these chains of events, you might end up in 1948 and you may not like the anwer, or you could go even further back in time with aid of the bible and find a favourable answer for who started it....

Surely is not going to help to change the status quo.

Do we want to keep ponting fingers or do we want to shake hands?

There is no shaking hands in what Palestine has made a death match.

You know, even if there is a full Palestinian state created, the attacks will continue regardless, because so many Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims/Liberals want the Jews gone. It will not end, maybe Israel, with a twist on Ghassan's own words, take care of the Palestinian question. I think it may be time to end it. Israel has a right to its security. The Palestinians need to make their choice. I think most Israelis would like to live in peace, they are not the problem.

BTW, how are the settlements illegal? Frankly, they are not. The Arabs lost the land attacking the Jews. Tough luck.

I'll let Ghassan deal with that mass of ignorance get ready sure it going to be fun to see that rape! :D

Originally posted by nico
I'll let Ghassan deal with that mass of ignorance get ready sure it going to be fun to see that rape! :D

No biggie, it would be just a repost of the same nonsense. The fact is that Israel has given ground, agreed to a Palestinian state, but that is not enough for Arafat and his terrorist buddies. They want more. Why give it to them now? So, they can carry out attacks even more? I am beginning to think that the idea of a Palestinian state is a lost cause. It is obvious that Hamas and company are bent on Israel's destruction regardless. So, let them have both barrels. Yeah, the violence is cyclical, but Israel was at least giving it an effort till the murdering Hamas and Co. blew up a bus of innocents. Hamas sucker punches Israel, and then throws a fit when they get it back. Maybe Israel should go full bore and did what the did after the massacre in Muenich 1972 to the terrorists.

Truth, be true to your name and just call it what it is: ethnic cleansing.

Sharon and his thugs want to keep the pot boiling and boiling until something gives him a fig leaf excuse to ethnically cleanse the whole area. Provocation and oppressive, jackboot-on-the-neck occupation keeps the terrorism alive..and eventually something will happen which will give him his fig leaf.

Remember Sharon wants the land-not peace. He can't have the land without ethnic cleansing. He is a rigth wing Zionist fanatic...it is all about land...the palestinians land. Other peoples blood is unimportant to him because he must have the land.

Don't listen to Sharons words. He is like Bush. Bush said WMD while his actions showed something else. Sharons says peace, his actions say war and ethnic cleansing for land.

Israel is losing its soul and doing the same thing as its most hated enemy...the nazis.

Originally posted by Jagger
Truth, be true to your name and just call it what it is: ethnic cleansing.

Sharon and his thugs want to keep the pot boiling and boiling until something gives him a fig leaf excuse to ethnically cleanse the whole area. Provocation and oppressive, jackboot-on-the-neck occupation keeps the terrorism alive..and eventually something will happen which will give him his fig leaf.

Remember Sharon wants the land-not peace. He can't have the land without ethnic cleansing. He is a rigth wing Zionist fanatic...it is all about land...the palestinians land. Other peoples blood is unimportant to him because he must have the land.

Don't listen to Sharons words. He is like Bush. Bush said WMD while his actions showed something else. Sharons says peace, his actions say war and ethnic cleansing for land.

Israel is losing its soul and doing the same thing as its most hated enemy...the nazis.

What you wrote completely sums up the Arab/Palestinian/Muslim actions for the last 55 years against Israel. Here is the truth, four unprovoked attacks against Israel since Israels rebirth by multiple nations supplied by the USSR, and low intensity conflict throughout. They have sought the eradication of Israel completely. Not the other way around. Some small groups of Jews/Israelis may, but not many.

If they wanted to ethnically cleanse, they had four wars in which they could have completely cleared the Middle East. In 1973 Israeli troops were 40 miles from Cairo. The only reason they stopped was due to arms manipulations by the US and US pressure in order to avoid WWIII. Israeli has the means and the ability. I am so sick of hearing about Zionist agenda and other crap. Maybe next time Israel should go the extra mile, that might go a long way to solving her problems. It's Palestinians blowing up kids and innocents on buses, not the other way around. If you want truth, stay away from CNN.

speaking of CNN,
i was watching it today and was completely shocked at what i heard coming out of Paula Zahn's mouth.

she actually called these brave acts of resistance "terrorist attacks"

*gasp*
the zionists got to her too!!!
oh no!

that's it. CNN is now controlled by facist extreme right wingers. "terrorist attacks"??? where does she get the nerve calling the murder of ppl sitting in a cafe "terrorist attacks"?

Vortex : This has been going on for years and it will likely continue the same sad shit. Anybody here truely believes that this hardline tactics will ultimately pay off, lead to something ??? or just maintaining some bloody status quo ???


Tit for Tat surely doesnt pay off , it only extends the misery and suffering . This retalliation-logic has to go one way or the other , it serves neither any good .

The choice is either aim for destruction or surrender , my preference is obvious . However it doesnt seem like Arik will let the choice to the Palestinian resistance , you see Arik in a strange way fights for the democratic rights of the Palestinian peoples , ofcourse he does this to provoke immense violence that leads to the excuse for the traditional zionist ethnic cleansing operations .

The reason for the cowardice behaviour of the Palestinian resistance lies in the fear to be destroyed . ALthough the rhetorics call for the destruction of the zionist entity as ideology (this is so in every organization of all religious affiliation) , practice shows the priority is self preservation . For the PLO this self-preservation has turned into actual governmental powers over the Palestinian peoples , thus the level has rised .

Hamas , although the loudmouth of the gang , has this exact same fear in more primitive levels , and it is exactly this current confrontation with their dears that might drive Hamas' actual policy from Tita for Tat to the true ideological aim that has been preached endlessly to have peoples support .

Arik seems to actually want to whipe out Hamas , as Hamas as an organzation follows a fatalistic suicidal drive in the end , the consequences of a total war might be exactly what Arik has aimed for all this time : Anarchy .

His plans have changed , the Palestinians do not seem stupid enough to exterminate eachother in the name of Israel , so Arik has decided to exterminate himself to achieve that same anarchic result .

Aside from the moral aspects, Is it realistic to think that that the total destruction of Hamas or the Israeli entity, or even the Palestinian entity can be accomplished ???

The problem with destroying Hamas is that it leads into the need to destroy the Palestinian entity , which leads into the need to destroy the Arab entity , which leads into the need to destroy the Islamic entity . The conflict doesnt end unless they kill us all . Not even a Hitler would accomplish that .

For Israel this question is of complete different nature , they have nobody that will stand for them out of ideological unity , they are the ones that are trying to pull everybody in . It is the exact opposite dynamics , and eventually they will be let go off . No empire will last forever , especially not one so fragile as theirs .

Its in Israels dialectics to pass away , but it can be done much more conscious and direct , intended and quick . However this needs a complete shift in attitude , political-military policy and religious interpertation .

There is just one thing though , will this do any good ? I dont think it would because the biggest problem in the Arabic world is not Israel , nomatter how much they want it to be . For Israel no longer to exist , will be the worst thing that can happen to the Arab regimes .

some people think the latest tragic incidents create the momentum to ban Arafat...
But than What??? A palestine ship without a captain ? Hamas would have a field day, essentially I think only lovers of full scale warfare on both sides would think this is a desirable option or???


They will probably ban him and this will cause immense civil disorder , and yes a field day for the other Resistance groups to recrute , now imagine the idea of a full Gaza and WB calling for Hamas as their national leadership ? Can Arik get a better pretext for his ethnic cleansement operation ?

The thing is that Hamas doesnt want a full scale war in any way , not that they do not wish to rid the zionist entity , but they feel like it is much wiser for them to do it easy on the next centuries , not in a full scale total war , it is suicide . They will when confronted yes , but this is not what they want in any way . They are very affraid for Israel and they should be , as an organization .

or you could go even further back in time with aid of the bible and find a favourable answer for who started it....

Well the interesting thing is that the characters of the bible who named the land Israel have little relation other than a cultural/religious one to todays occupyers , in fact many palestinians would have more Hebrew ancestry through conversion to Christianity (and later Islam but not necesary , Palestine was inhabited half by Christian Arabs before zionism played a role) than some German or Russian Jew .

Nico : Is that what Israel wants? I doubt it, Sharon and his neo-cons should think twice about there measures. It could have massive conseqences.

Why do you doubt that those consequences are not in zionist favor ?

Hamas is #1 on the Pals. street right now (I don't know if P.A is #1 anymore)

Its not that bad yet , but imagine when it will be . What better pretext can Arik have for ethnic cleansing the territories like in the old days ? How is that not in his favor ? They're all terrorist arent they ? It might happen before the end of this year , it could become one of the worst humanitarian crises in the region since 1948 . How would the environment deal with it ? Will they even deal with it at all ? Surely they wont even consider to attack Israel , but what about the refugees ? Its gonna be a disaster .

otheadp : oh....Hamas........

it is the most fundamentalist fanatic element of 'palestinian' society, and it is ARMED TO ITS TEETH. doesn't anyone see a problem with that?

Seriously you can see the difference in the leadership and its followers , have you ever read Jabotinsky otheadp ? He would not makes such senseless comments as this one , not even from his fascist position .

What the hell do you expect ? Do you simply expect them to not be armed and bow down to your superiority ? Look what Israel has man an entire army and you think Hamas arms are of any issue ?

And how are they so much more fundamental or fanatic or whatever in the aspects that concern Israel ? Do Al Aqsa Martyrs not blow themselves up in busses ? Doesnt Islamic Jihad ? The entire Islamic resistance practices these methods that concern you , why do you need to point out Hamas ?

And do you think because the Christian fractiosn dont blow themselves up they are considered any less terrorist ? Dont they commit assaults on Israeli non-combatants ?

But I know this whole reasoning of yours comes out of the need to distinguish religiously , to point out religious strictness as some issue relevant to the struggle . I know this is not only your , but mainstream trail of thought for a Western averaged mind . That is why I believe a change in some areas from our side would mess up your minds (well not yours ur zionist u cant adapt new positions) completely into our favor .

its goal: destruction of Israel as we know it and establishing an Islamic state on the lands of where Israel is now.

End when is it acting out its goal ? If it only would it would make alot of Palestinian peoples very happy as they support exactly for those destruction rhetorics . I havent seen hamas kill over more than 30 peoples in my life , so what point does this have for Israel ? Are you affraid Hamas might win the struggle in 200 years from now ?

And again , how does this differ from any other ideologies ? Do you think Fatah-PLO has any other end-goals ? Do you think PFLP-DFLP do ? There doesnt exist any Palestinian movement outside of Israel that desires absolute peacefull co-existance with the zionists . And I doubt those within Israel have any other goal , all they have is other rhetorics .

its tactics: "if you're not in complete agreement with us, you must be an israeli collaborator. we will lynch you" and they literally lynch people... and hang their bodies in public places for ppl to see.

Who cares ? Seriously who cares about this ? Why is this of any point for Hamas ? Have you any idea what Israel does to collaborateurs ? Have you any idea what USA does ?

Who cares that they like use it rhetorical and display it publicly , the only way others who do the same dont act the same about it is because the public opinion isnt satisfied with such approach . If public opinion would be tamed by such measurements , they would do that .. or do you think the moral ground is somuch higher for those democracies ?

their logos: "Allah will reward you in heaven".....and "God is great"

Why the hell are you mentioning this ? What is your point with it ? What the hell is the problem of having such a logo ? Are you actually condemning Islamic identification here ? Are you condemning an organization for being Muslim ?

Israel has no choice but to respond. hamas can't expect anything less than a retaliation if they blow ppl up in the hearts of metropolitan cities.

And Islamic Jihad doesnt ? And Al Aqsa doesnt ? Why then a different approach ? Because totally destroying the Shia movement will make toomuch noise for Hizbullah and Iran ? Why just Hamas ? Because Al Aqsa is Fatah military wing ? Because Fatah is where ABBAS was from ? Why ? Tell me please

Israel cant expect anything less than retaliation and Israel should praise itself lucky it is challenged by incapable idiots .

solution: dismantle hamas and other terrorists. let dialogue take course. this worked as we saw in the past.

In other words a Palestinian civil war is what you want . Hey Arik desries no less , but since they are not that stupid you need to do it yourself instead , either way for you the results are favorable .

otherwise, it's side A negotiating with side B, about side C (not accountable to any side). where's the logic in that?

The logic lies in the fact that there is no state and no army , thus u have militias what the hell u think the PA is ?

The logical error is the expectation to be left alone while you do not leave alone , within the logical equation of "IF' left alone"THEN" they leave you alone . You dont respect the formual yet you desire its outcome ?

How ridiculous , and for such geniusses as Arik and his gang I couldnt even consider such errors , clearly the outcome of peace is refused as well .

CNN is now controlled by facist extreme right wingers.


Why this constant need to make everything that would oppose you , be a condaming of the most extreme ? Do you think you need to be a fascist extreme rightwinger to be a zionist ?

Truth : Time to send in the Golani Brigade and see how much Hamas and the cowards like to play with soldiers ready to battle.

Immediately after the 1967-aggression, the Israeli Forces started to expel the 130,000 Golan inhabitants from the occupied areas of the Golan, destroyed 133 out of 139 villages, many towns and 61 farms, only 5 inhabited villages survived in the north-west of the Golan; and only 6,000 inhabitants remained there, besides about 25 people in Al-Qunaitra. Israeli objective was to empty the Region of its Arab population, have them replaced by Israelis and provide such Israelis with land sufficient for their agricultural activities. Before the Israeli withdrew from the area in 1974, they destroyed the place completely.

Yes we know your position , you should join your Golani brigades and celebrate the ethnic cleansement of the Christian Bteha that they have been responsible for . Or the Bedouins , Cherkesians , Turks , Druz and Alawite that inhabited the region .

So go ahead , show your support for ethnic cleansement . Praise the Golani Brigades .

You know, even if there is a full Palestinian state created, the attacks will continue regardless, because so many Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims/Liberals want the Jews gone.

Actually untill this very day the Jewish question has not been acknowledged fully by Arabs , although the creation of it has been so incited by the zionist , a zionist question it still remains .

To make it a Jewish issue , as usual , is such typical western ignorance suithing for zionist propaganda aims .

Or do you think Arik sits at home and worries about hatred aimed toward "Jews" as well ?

And its very easy to say the attacks will continue when it is not a decent state-solution you support . Honestly historically it would not change , Israel shall never be recognized in the historical context it is today .... Israel could change this completely , but Israel doesnt seem to understand that you cannot blackmail peoples into being your friend .

It will not end, maybe Israel, with a twist on Ghassan's own words, take care of the Palestinian question. I think it may be time to end it. Israel has a right to its security.

Thanks for condoning ethnic cleansement once more . Thanks for showing that your ideological paralel is called nazism .

The Palestinians need to make their choice. I think most Israelis would like to live in peace, they are not the problem.

That is why they vote for Sharon , that is why they support occupation ..... yes ?

Honesty thats the difference .

BTW, how are the settlements illegal? Frankly, they are not. The Arabs lost the land attacking the Jews. Tough luck.

They are outside of Israeli borders , but that ofcourse doesnt matter since Israeli borders are outside of any legitimacy in the first place . Thanks you for showing you have no problem with Israel taking land from peoples , for calling it "tough luck" . You show your moralless vision of "land belonging to Jews" nomatter what , Im starting to wonder weither the true motor of revisionist biblical zionism is actually Jewish-zionist or rather product of JVI ministries and other vomit .

No biggie, it would be just a repost of the same nonsense.

Nothing is a biggie for a small mind , you can take only what you can take and thats not much so .... logical only .

Dont think that calling it nonsense makes you any less ridiculous .

The fact is that Israel has given ground, agreed to a Palestinian state, but that is not enough for Arafat and his terrorist buddies. They want more. Why give it to them now? So, they can carry out attacks even more? I am beginning to think that the idea of a Palestinian state is a lost cause. It is obvious that Hamas and company are bent on Israel's destruction regardless. So, let them have both barrels. Yeah, the violence is cyclical, but Israel was at least giving it an effort till the murdering Hamas and Co. blew up a bus of innocents. Hamas sucker punches Israel, and then throws a fit when they get it back. Maybe Israel should go full bore and did what the did after the massacre in Muenich 1972 to the terrorists.

Wow what a ranting , and again ending in disgusting activities you clearly wish to be carried out as you mentioned in all your posts on this thread .

Throwing fits ? What do you think man this is some fight on your high-school ground ? Hamas retalliated Israel for killing its militants , you cannot expect for any organization to sit still and die .

What you wrote completely sums up the Arab/Palestinian/Muslim actions for the last 55 years against Israel.

REBIRTH ? When did Poles ever live in Semitic lands ? Israel has ETHNIC CLEANSED BEFORE the war of 1948 , the operations started in late 1947 not may 1948 you clearly revise your history to fit your moral justification you are so desperate for , as they are responsible for ethnic cleansing CHRISTIANS you clearly dont give a shit for .

Thats whats the most disgusting thing , that you dont value life outside of your simplistic world-view is one ...... history showed that your understanding of the conflict shows it and we are all used to it . But that you dont even give a shit for your own spiritual brothers is just disgusting . Maybe its just that you dont value Arab life period .

I am so sick of hearing about Zionist agenda and other crap.

We know truth makes you sick , truth .

It's Palestinians blowing up kids and innocents on buses, not the other way around.

Thats why the ratio for CHILDREN that die in the conflict 1/5 no ? Because its palestinians killing everybody yes ?

If you want truth, stay away from CNN.

Thats the most hilarious thing about you peoples , you are so indoctrinated by your illusions YOUR OWN PROPAGANDA MACHINE is becoming your enemy , sad really .

biblthmp : You have the sequence backwards. Hamas attacks with a bloody bomb attack, and then as a response, Israel targets Hamas leaders.

It is always important to keep the cause and effect in the proper order. It is Hamas that is the instigators.

So before 94 Israel did no harm ? What is rather important is to understand that this issue doesnt have its cause and effect in some 2 weeks stretching period .

Also posting it 3 times doesnt make the argument 3 times as strong .

There is no shaking hands in what Palestine has made a death match.

say biblethumper , do you condemn the death-match declared by the Christian Palestinians as well ?

I believe that if the Palistine people can't stop the Hamas from terrorizing the Israelies then Israel should be allowed to go in and either pick up the Hamas leaders or kill them.

A massive injection of atheism is needed in that part of the world.

As long as there are men willing to undertake suicide operations with the view that they will be rewarded in heaven, i see no end to the conflict. Hamas possesses an ingenious, effective and brutal weapon, something the israelis cannot counter.

As far as banning Arafat goes, it would be suicide on israel's part. With Arafat there's a semblance of order. Without him, the situation will be ideal for Hamas. Will it end in 50 years? I don't think so.

And now Hamas is going to target civilian homes, apparently buses are not much fun anymore. Big difference when you are rooting a rat terrorist out of their lair, then going into someone's home to kill a family. Israel needs to take off the velvet glove.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96914,00.html

Target civilian homes.....ummmm....sounds familiar.

Now I remember. The Israeli terrorist campaign of the 40's which targeted arab homes. At night, Israeli terrorists would sneak into arab neighborhodds, plant bombs on Arab civlian homes and then blow them up while the inhabitants were sleeping. Check out the book, "O Jerusalem". The book documents the campaign extensively including interviews with Israeli terrorists describing their operations.

Sounds like the same thing except the Palestinians haven't done it yet.

How quickly people forget....what is sown is reaped.

You say "Now I remember. The Israeli terrorist campaign of the 40's which targeted arab homes."

Could you please give a link to the source of that comment please. I've never read an article stating that so I'm very interested in finding out more about it.

It is not an internet source. Find the book, "O Jerusalem" by Larry Collins and Dominque LaPierre. It is very well balanced and researched book on the formation of Israel. There is a lot that went on which you never hear about in the US. Also it is a fairly common book...you may be able to find it in your local library.

cosmictraveler : I believe that if the Palistine people can't stop the Hamas from terrorizing the Israelies then Israel should be allowed to go in and either pick up the Hamas leaders or kill them.

The vast majority of the Palestinians does not to stop Hamas and almost nobody wants Hamas to be disarmed . Tell me what does Hamas do different than Islamic Jihad or hat the Al Aqsa Martyrs ? Al Aqsa are part of Arafats & Abbas' Fatah , should the PA go arrest itself or should Hamas be discriminated because they are called Hamas ?

Why has Israel this legitimacy you speak of ? Why does Israel have more right as a political/military institution more than anyone else ? Why are they allowed to destroy and murder and steal land and ethnic cleanse for the last 55 years as a state and as "terrorists" themselves before that period ?

Such a double standard is just pathetic . I've never read an article stating that I assume he is speaking of Abbasiyya massacre :

On 13 December 1947, while the British mandate army was still controlling Palestine, the IZL Zionist terrorist gang attacked the village of Abbasiyya. The 24 attackers were disguised in the uniform of British soldiers. They fired at the village and blasted several homes. They fired at some people who were sitting in front of a café. The killers planted a number of time bombs and explosive charges in some of the houses. Many British soldiers arrived at the village but did not interfere, but they partially encircled the village, allowing the killers an access to flee from the northern side.

Seven Arabs were killed and seven others were seriously injured, two of whom died later, including a five-year old child, his 20-year old mother. Five others were injured when the time bombs exploded in the days following the massacre.

But such measely attacks were nothing compared to operations against lets say ........ Deir Yassin ? Ever heard of that one cosmic ?

The thirties was good as well btw ........

I wonder weither you have any awareness of zionist history in Palestine (or elsewhere for that matter) at all cosmic ?

Afterall a nation that is build on peoples who are have used biological weapons and who are developping biological weapons in accordance to GENETICAL identification , what can you expect ?

Truth :Israel needs to take off the velvet glove.

Yes bring in the Golani right ? Or why not bring in the Labanoni ?

Arab AI-Khassas massacre

Following the Partition Resolution passed on 29 November 1947, while five Arab workers were on their way to their jobs, three Zionists of the Ma’yan Baroch settlement opened fire at the workers. As a result, one of the Zionist attackers was stabbed with a knife which led to his death. When the commander of the Third Palmach battalion which was stationed at Atleet area received the news of the killing of the Zionist, his deputy Moshe Kalman hurried to the scene of the accident. He ordered Mola Cohen , the commander of the Palmach to carry out a retaliatory operation against the village, because killing one Jew is considered a sanctioning of Jewish blood. Though the murder charge against the inhabitants of the village was not proven, it was decided to attack Al_ Khassas. Moshe Carmel, commander of the Labanoni Brigade delivered an order to the Command of the Third Battalion from the Operations Division of the General Staff to carry out a retaliatory operation aimed at burning homes and killing men of the village.

The operation was executed on 18 December 1947 by two units of the brigade. The report of the force commander stated that 12 villagers were killed, including some women and children. However, it appeared later on that all the victims were women and children, because the men had left the village a short while prior to the massacre. Some Jewish sources said that 10 of the village population were killed, including five children, and that some victims were buried under the rubble of their homes

is going to

Do you understand this ? Do you understand what that implies ? That they HAVENT yet , unlike indeed others have . Be honest and admit that it does not matter for you what Hamas .

Deepuz : massive injection of atheism is needed in that part of the world

I wonder how many years it will take you to realize at least half of the ammount of ignorance u put in those few words .

Jagger¨: Israel is losing its soul and doing the same thing as its most hated enemy...the nazis.

Not inside of Palestine or the Reich untill 1942 . The Nazi´s had full power in 1933 . Before that era little was different . This deals with the essential anti/semitism that was tied within zionism .

Final Solution (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=426288#post426288)

Anti-Semitism (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=426288#post426288)