Kuwait Takes Some Small Steps...

Wonder how long it will take Saudi Arabia to follow suit.

~String

 

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They will probably pass this development off as a product of American arm twisting, using it as an excuse to do the exact opposite.

 

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Well, there was certainly some arm twisting in getting Kuwait to give women the right to vote, but I'm not sure there was much US involvement in getting these women elected.

Besides, the Saudi King just appointed the Kingdom's first female Minister, so they don't seem to be back-pedaling to spite the USA.

~String

 

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Pfft, the history of those countries does not make this a "finally" moment. Women have held positions of power in the Middle East and Asia for a long time.

 

Well their are members of the saudi royal family working toward such a goal.

 

Well in that case, I'd be delighted if the Saudi government would go ahead and prove my predictions wrong.

 

Ruling class doesn't count. Even China has had female rulers, and mothers or wives or concubines holding the reins of power behind doddering or manipulable figurehead males are standard fare in even the most rigid and oppressive of patriarchies.

The Islamic countries oppress women. It's visible in everything from the education rates to the disease and mortality statistics. That's something the Muslim world will have to face sooner or later.

 

Indeed. There isn't a nation on Earth, with patriarchal ruling classes that hasn't seen women in power. It's not like England and Russia were such progressive nations for having Liz the First and Cathy the Great as rulers. In each case, it was more a matter of serendipitous circumstances that led to their reign, and not an overt act of egalitarianism. The same is true of the Mideast, China and Japan.

~String

 

Islamic countries... So thats like a collection of countries that are Muslim right? Not just 1 one or 2? Ok then, lets take that standard and apply it to say, South America or African countries and what do we see? The same thing... Weird how no one crusades for that but somehow a Muslima brings out all the brave and chivalrous knights...

 

Nobody is denying the history that women have been oppressed by other nations/cultures. But we aren't talking about them. We're talking about typical Islamic discrimination against women.

~String

 

We`re talking about the clash of cultures. As can be seen in the US wars against Islam. If its is not the "American Way", its the "Wrong" way and these "regimes" must be changed. :m:
Judging another societies treatment of woman against one`s own, is not necessarily reasonable. One has to take into account religious and societal norms. Woman in Muslim societies are not champing at the bit to break free from "outrageous" male suppression. There is great respect for family life and cohesion in Muslim society. Aspiring to be Miss California is not exactly freedom. Moral decay is quite visible in US society, discrimination or no discrimination.

 

No. We're not. We're talking about oppression of women, and a society finally beginning to treat women with the respect they deserve.

You're attempting to derail the conversation. Nobody on this thread has denied Western imperialism or wrongful US intervention. So, stop distracting. We're attempting to discuss the pleasing progress that one society has shown in the treatment of HALF of its population.

Yes it is. I can't, for the life of me, understand why it's so evil to discriminate against races (the USA & Europe had embargoes against South Africa for such a deal), but find it somehow less evil to systematically treat women like property. It's just as, if not more, despicable.

Duh. Isn't that the point we're making: Muslim societies do not hold female's rights to be of significant enough value to treat them with the same respect as they do men.

Two thoughts: (1) you're wrong. In Iran and Afghanistan for example, in the past decade females have protested in great numbers to make inroads into previously male dominated areas. So, you're either blatantly deceiving or just ignorant of world events. (2) the women who avoid such activity generally do so due to brain washing from birth coupled with family and societal pressures, if not outright violence altogether.

Nothing, from what I have heard from the few Muslims I know, prohibits treating women with respect, giving them the right to vote or restricts them from holding government office. Leave it to you to miss the point entirely and somehow equate oppression of women with respect for family life.

StrawDog, you miss the point, and out of some mutant obsession, bring up things that have absolutely no connection. Giving women rights, does not equate turning them into "Miss California". Although, since you bring the point up, it isn't up to men to herd women in and out of specific pursuits, including entering beauty pageants if they so desire. Allowing women to run for office, and electing them fairly, or even becoming "Miss Baghdad" does not necessarily lead to moral decay. Decadence does. So does institutionalized discrimination. The same decadence that has cycled in and out of every Earthly society since the beginning of time.

~String

 

Quite correct. Thats why Khaleda Zia and Benazir Bhutto have been elected to the top post in their countries, while western countries still struggle with the idea of a woman leading them.

 

"We" never seem to do. All "we" ever seem to moan about is what happens in Muslim countries. Strange that.

 

I found Megawati to be interesting as well.

 

Who is Megawati? We already had Indira Gandhi.

 

Wow, you named women from ruling class families. As YOU pointed out long ago, in many societies, people vote for ruling blocks who are controlled by specific families.

Megawati Sukarnoputri (Indonesia) gained her noteriety through her family name. Benazir Bhutto inherited her power from her ruling class father, a point I made previously, really doesn't prove a thing (not that Bhutto wasn't a great woman).

Moreover, the societies you mention still treat their women like dirt. Just because England allowed Elizabeth I to come to power, doesn't mean that her kingdom was suddenly progressive and egalitarian.

Just the same, just becaus the USA has elected a [half] black man as president, doesn't negate the fact that there is still a great deal of racism in the USA.

I would have thought you'd recognize this point.

~String

 

Megawati was Indonesias president.

 

Yep, some people do. But can that be generazlied for the whole country? No. Some people in the US are racists, not the whole country. The same goes for Muslim countries. You fail to recognize that point.

 

No I don't.

The point I'm making is that Islamic societies still, in general, treat women as less than men and that's its good to see one making some progress on the issue.

~String