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The purpose of this post / thread is to discuss / propound about the true self that Upanishads that first talked about, and later on Krishna propounded this knowledge to Arjun in Gita.


I"ll post things from upanishads rather than explaining things myself. I have original upanishads 108 of them. (there are some scholars who think that we have 1080, but 108 are the major ones). Most of my posts will be precise and small, so that people can "read" rather than marvel as to how large and informative the post is. In my opinion a small text with good explaination can prove beneficial.

If you have any questions / Thoughts / additions, feel free to do so.I"ll start with basic excerpt.
The idea is that all that is percieved by senses, thought of even is illusionary (called Maya by some, which i would disagree and i"ll tell you my reasons, from a purist perspective that is not true), and Brahm is the absolute and the only truth. Brahm is the self that exists within all of us, pervades everything that exists. We see what we see because, at our very center of existance we become mortals because of false sense of ego, that we acquire qualities we desire thinking that we are now separate from brahm (hence we assume shape). Brahm exists within all of us. That brahm is represented by OM.

I"ll cover every aspect of brahm vidya with all honesty (without adding my own thoughts)

ॐ

The idea is that all that is percieved by senses, thought of even is illusionary (called Maya by some, which i would disagree and i"ll tell you my reasons, from a purist perspective that is not true), and Brahm is the absolute and the only truth. Brahm is the self that exists within all of us, pervades everything that exists. We see what we see because, at our very center of existance we become mortals because of false sense of ego, that we acquire qualities we desire thinking that we are now separate from brahm (hence we assume shape). Brahm exists within all of us. That brahm is represented by OM.

I"ll cover every aspect of brahm vidya with all honesty (without adding my own thoughts)

ॐ
I don't really agree with this....Brahm is not within you, nor is it outside you, rather its both within and outside of you....and also Brahm isn't really anything...its neti neti ("not this, not this")...you can't really concretely define what it is because it is the origin of all things...the basis of reality itself.....you can't even say that its a force...nor that it isn't a force....there is no reality without Brahm itself....

....Brahm is not within you, nor is it outside you, rather its both within and outside of you
i never wanted to get in discussion of such sort, but i never meant it in Body perspective. Reality is not What you see in mirror. Once you get out of that ordeal then you can perhaps began to understand / assimilate what i am trying to convey.


...the basis of reality itself.....

you are self contradicting, basis of "maya" you meant? .... again in last sentence you say there is no "reality" without brahm, which presumes Maya as reality...

I made a simple statement, all that we percieve is because of false sense of ego (that we are separate from brahm, hence our body / brain which gives shape to our false self, concludes that everything else that it is seeing must have a separate existance).,.. (in fact i can quote references from Uddhav gita in which krishna makes this statement.).

My apologies if i wasnt clear.
Rick

I don´t think we can fully understand these things.
But we can surely experiment them, within ourselves.

Even if the Brahma is in everything, if you don´t understand yourselfs, you won´t understand things external to you.

Like Aham Brahmasti said: - I am the Brahma -

Homo nosce te ipsum...

first off, i am sorry if i offend you, but its AHAM BRAHMAS-MI (which means i am brahm). secondly, its not Brahma (which is an attribute of Brahm). its Brahm.

Again, i think lot of people often mistakenly identify their bodies with their own spans / personality spans. It is precisely why Brahm is outside (According to those who blv so) of them. When we say "If you dont understand yourself" for example, necessarily implication of such a statement is that there has to be a co-relation between your physical existance which includes what ever is "outside" as in above post or inside is the absolute truth. or somehow connected to absolute truth.

Clarity of things is important here. Things outside of your false self (false ego / your own personality which you embody) and inside are only connected to this sense of false self, therefore it is outside (well forgive me for using these words such as outside, as i have no adjectives to qualify brahm) of this false self.

Rick

i never wanted to get in discussion of such sort, but i never meant it in Body perspective. Reality is not What you see in mirror. Once you get out of that ordeal then you can perhaps began to understand / assimilate what i am trying to convey.
Yes this is true....but Brahm is reality in itself...the reality or material world is an illusion...Brahm is the only "thing" that is actually true...


you are self contradicting, basis of "maya" you meant? .... again in last sentence you say there is no "reality" without brahm, which presumes Maya as reality...
Yes, this is a way the word is commonly used except that Brahm is reality itself...the absolute truth...the basis of all...


I made a simple statement, all that we percieve is because of false sense of ego (that we are separate from brahm, hence our body / brain which gives shape to our false self, concludes that everything else that it is seeing must have a separate existance).,.. (in fact i can quote references from Uddhav gita in which krishna makes this statement.).

My apologies if i wasnt clear.
Rick
But Brahm isn't "within you" although it may appear so...in reality it is really neither within you or outside of you, and also both...

"The Supreme Truth [Brahman] exists outside and inside of all living beings, the moving and the nonmoving. Because He is subtle, He is beyond the power of the material senses to see or to know. Although far, far away, He is also near to all" (BG 13.16)

As for your statement about Uddhav Gita supporting that the body/brain gives shape to the false ego this is simply false. In Uttara Gita Krishna does state that all things exist in the sushumna-nadi (which is immaterial unlike the body) and from personal experience I will have to agree with Krishna...that the material world (what we call reality) really does exist in the sushumna-nadi

"The sun, the moon and the other devatas, the fourteen lokas of Bhur,
Bhuvas etc., the ten Dikas [directions], east, west, etc., the sacred places, the
seven oceans, the Himalaya and other mountains, the seven islands of jambu,
etc., the seven sacred rivers, Ganga, etc., the four Vedas, all the sacred
philosophies, the sixteen vowels and twenty-four consonants, the Gayatri and
other sacred mantras, the eighteen Puranas and all the Upapuranas included,
the three gunas, mahat itself, the root of all the jivas, the jivas and their
atman, the ten breaths, the whole world, in fact, consisting of all these, exists
in the sushumna." (Uttara Gita 2.16)

first off, i am sorry if i offend you, but its AHAM BRAHMAS-MI (which means i am brahm). secondly, its not Brahma (which is an attribute of Brahm). its Brahm.

First off, I´m not easily offended, not at all, but I appreciate your concern (=.

My bad, it was a mis-translation from Spanish. We are talking about the same thing here though Brahm in english, Brahma in Spanish.

Again, i think lot of people often mistakenly identify their bodies with their own spans / personality spans. It is precisely why Brahm is outside (According to those who blv so) of them. When we say "If you dont understand yourself" for example, necessarily implication of such a statement is that there has to be a co-relation between your physical existance which includes what ever is "outside" as in above post or inside is the absolute truth. or somehow connected to absolute truth.

Clarity of things is important here. Things outside of your false self (false ego / your own personality which you embody) and inside are only connected to this sense of false self, therefore it is outside (well forgive me for using these words such as outside, as i have no adjectives to qualify brahm) of this false self.

Rick

I personally don´t stick to a religion or a set of beliefs, I find Buddhism and Hindu 2 of the most accurate dogmas there currently are. So I relate to all of you guys comments, they are all helpfull. But as a seeker myself, have found many parallels between all religions I have made research about.

I find this Animal/Saint struggle very interesting, and every religion have their symbolism for this phenomena; personally, internal Alchemy is indeed one of the most interesting thoughts, and their most linked scripture, is the Emerald Table of Hermes Trismegistus (Greek translation of Thot the egyptian, or Atlantian), which from my perspective, if full of wisdom and mystery:

"THE EMERALD TABLET OF HERMES
1) True, without falsehood, certain, most certain.
2) What is above is like what is below, and what is below, like that which is above. To make the miracle of the one thing.
3) And as all things were made from contemplation of one, so all things were born from one adaptation.
4) Its father is the Sun, its mother is the Moon.
5) The wind carried it in its womb, the earth breast fed it.
6) It is the father of all works of wonder in the world.
7) Its power is complete if turned towards earth, it will separate earth from fire, the subtle from the gross.
8) With great capacity (Wisdom) it ascends from earth to heaven. Again it descends to earth, and takes back the power of the above and the below.
9) Thus you will receive the glory of the distinctiveness of the world. All obscurity will flee from you.
10) This is the whole most strong strength of all strength, for it overcomes all subtle things, and penetrates all solid things.
11) Thus was the world created.
12) From this comes marvelous adaptations of which this is the procedure.
13) Therefore I am called Hermes Thrice-Crowned because I have three parts of the Wisdom of the whole world.
14) And complete is what I had to say about the work of the Sun.
Commentary"

I attribute the following line to the Brahm we are talking about here:

"2) What is above is like what is below, and what is below, like that which is above. To make the miracle of the one thing.
3) And as all things were made from contemplation of one, so all things were born from one adaptation."

And its parallel from Christian apocriphae, my personal favorite Gospel: (The Gospel of Thomas) :

"(22) Jesus saw some infants at the breast. He said to his disciples: These little ones at the breast are like those who enter into the kingdom. They said to him: If we then be children, shall we enter the kingdom? Jesus said to them: When you make the two one, and when you make the inside as the outside, and the outside as the inside, and the upper side as the lower; and when you make the male and the female into a single one, that the male be not male and the female female; when you make eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then shall you enter [the kingdom].

(23) Jesus said: I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one. "

Yes this is true....but Brahm is reality in itself...the reality or material world is an illusion...Brahm is the only "thing" that is actually true...

But Brahm isn't "within you" although it may appear so...in reality it is really neither within you or outside of you, and also both...

"The Supreme Truth [Brahman] exists outside and inside of all living beings, the moving and the nonmoving. Because He is subtle, He is beyond the power of the material senses to see or to know. Although far, far away, He is also near to all" (BG 13.16)

Yes I agree, and I believe, we cannot experience the Brahm unless we seek it within ourselves, then we can see the Brahm outside. That is my whole point in my last post.

But Brahm isn't "within you" although it may appear so...in reality it is really neither within you or outside of you, and also both...


ok, haha i think we both understand what we mean, its a linguistic block that i might have in explaining things... let me post some things from Upanishads in subsequent of my posts, meanwhile feel free to add to know how.

Rick

ok, haha i think we both understand what we mean, its a linguistic block that i might have in explaining things... let me post some things from Upanishads in subsequent of my posts, meanwhile feel free to add to know how.

Rick
Yes a linguistic block....

You can say that all things outside of you exist within you, and you can also say that all things within you exist outside of you....

This is not science nor philosophy.

first off, i am sorry if i offend you, but its AHAM BRAHMAS-MI (which means i am brahm). secondly, its not Brahma (which is an attribute of Brahm). its Brahm.

Again, i think lot of people often mistakenly identify their bodies with their own spans / personality spans. It is precisely why Brahm is outside (According to those who blv so) of them. When we say "If you dont understand yourself" for example, necessarily implication of such a statement is that there has to be a co-relation between your physical existance which includes what ever is "outside" as in above post or inside is the absolute truth. or somehow connected to absolute truth.

Truth is no more than a word. The actuality of it is. The mysticsm of Brahma is extraneous for a description of egoless.

Clarity of things is important here. Things outside of your false self (false ego / your own personality which you embody) and inside are only connected to this sense of false self, therefore it is outside (well forgive me for using these words such as outside, as i have no adjectives to qualify brahm) of this false self.

Clarity/ actuality/ pristine/ perfection/ etc

let me post some things from Upanishads in subsequent of my posts,
Rick

Please...let Rick post a few things from Upanishads before everyone putting their two cents....thank you.