The Knesset Constitution, Law and Justice Committee on Wednesday approved in second and third readings a broad version of the "Shai Dromi Bill," which absolves from criminal responsibility anyone who kills or injures an intruder in his home, business or farm.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/995839.html


Hand out machine guns to all Palestinians :D

um a lot of countries have laws like that

pjdude actually they dont. The only law which would alow this in australia is an incidental one, Ie if you are defending YOURSELF (not your propperty), or someone else (im not sure about pets) you can take all reasonable steps to do it (ie you cant shoot someone who is threating you with a ballon).

Thats a VERY bad law and sets a VERY bad precident.

Its a silly law:


The bill would make exemption from criminal responsibility due to self-defense more flexible in two respects. It does not require that a person defending himself against an intruder to be in tangible danger, as is required of a person who acts to repel an assailant. Secondly, it grants protection to a person who has acted in an unreasonable manner (though not patently unreasonable).

That's a law in America for many years now. As long as your in "fear for your life" you can kill anyone on your property without any recourse from the law. Of course if its your spouse they just might become suspicious about that death. ;)

cosmic, the problem is what if its a door to door salesmen, or a JW.

"They were on my property so i shot them your honor". Now its up to the procution to prove that you didnt mestake them for a threat. Bad laws, very bad laws

Its a silly law:


The bill would make exemption from criminal responsibility due to self-defense more flexible in two respects. It does not require that a person defending himself against an intruder to be in tangible danger, as is required of a person who acts to repel an assailant. Secondly, it grants protection to a person who has acted in an unreasonable manner (though not patently unreasonable).

No, not really, it just means that you better have a invitation to be there.

Like this:

Yoshihiro Hattori (服部剛丈 Hattori Yoshihiro) (November 22, 1975 - October 17, 1992) was a Japanese exchange student residing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, United States at the time of his death. Hattori was on his way to a Halloween party when he mistook the address and entered the wrong suburban property. The property owner, Rodney Peairs, mortally wounded Hattori with gunfire, thinking he was trespassing with criminal intent. The controversial homicide, and Peairs' subsequent acquittal in the state court of Louisiana, received worldwide attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

Florida has the shoot anything that moves law.

A law letting people in Florida kill in self-defence on the street without first trying to flee an attacker has been passed by Florida politicians.

Florida law already allows people to shoot a potential attacker in their home, place of work or car.

But until now, courts insisted that anyone confronted in a public place should first try to run away.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4415135.stm

cosmic, the problem is what if its a door to door salesmen, or a JW.

"They were on my property so i shot them your honor". Now its up to the procution to prove that you didnt mestake them for a threat. Bad laws, very bad laws

Well, they take the chance by coming onto your property without your permission in the first place. I'd think that common sense would play a big part in a killing when it came to going to court about it. Sometimes the jury just might let you off if the "door to door" salesman was there to many times badgering you to buy his "products".;)

Thank god i dont live in the US

You do realise that the existance of these laws leads to situations like where a husband\wife gets home early from a buiness trip and because its late sneaks into there house only to be shoot by the spouse thinking its a burgler?

You are FAR more likly to be killed by your own gun than have to use it to defend yourself

Thats why i always get so pissed off at PB for leaving the shutters down at night, would rather be shot than burnt to death which is a far more likly prospect


Edit to add: and what about the ambo's who break into the house because someone has lent on there call direct button and then not responded to the voice coming out of the speaker?

Do WE deserve to be shot?

Thank god i dont live in the US

You do realise that the existance of these laws leads to situations like where a husband\wife gets home early from a buiness trip and because its late sneaks into there house only to be shoot by the spouse thinking its a burgler?

You are FAR more likly to be killed by your own gun than have to use it to defend yourself

Thats why i always get so pissed off at PB for leaving the shutters down at night, would rather be shot than burnt to death which is a far more likly prospect


Edit to add: and what about the ambo's who break into the house because someone has lent on there call direct button and then not responded to the voice coming out of the speaker?

Do WE deserve to be shot?

I thank God you don't live here either.

hey sam i wonder what would happen if the police broke in to excute a warrent and before they could open there mouth they got a face full of buck shot?

think the law would change back quite quickly

sneaks into there house only to be shoot by the spouse thinking its a burgler?

You are FAR more likly to be killed by your own gun than have to use it to defend yourself

and then not responded to the voice coming out of the speaker?

Do WE deserve to be shot?

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/kleck2.html

More misleading still was the suggestion that these rare killings bore on the issue of the risks of defensive gun use. In a detailed study of killings of officers, the FBI found that, among 11 officers who were killed with their own guns, only one involved a gun taken from the victim officer's hand. Since actually using a gun for self-defense would have to involve an officer holding the gun, this implies that cases of officers killed with their own guns almost never involve an attempt by the victim officer to use the gun for self-defense. Instead guns were typically taken from the officer's holster or vehicle. Police officers are almost never killed by offenders who took their guns away while the officers were trying to use the guns defensively. Police killings therefore offer no support for the notion that using guns for self-defense is risky.

Based on nationally representative samples of crime incidents reported in the National Crime Victimization Surveys, victims who use guns for self-protection were less likely to be injured or to lose property than otherwise similar victims who used other forms of self-protection or who did not resist at all. For example, among robbery victims who used guns, only 17% were injured and only 31% lost property, compared to 25% inury rates and 88% property loss rates among victims who did not resist at all, and 33% injury rates and 65% property loss rates among all robbery victims.

buffilo please dont edit my posts BEFORE you quote them. do it again and i will just delete you post

Well, they take the chance by coming onto your property without your permission in the first place. I'd think that common sense would play a big part in a killing when it came to going to court about it. Sometimes the jury just might let you off if the "door to door" salesman was there to many times badgering you to buy his "products".;)

I never stopped to ask directions when I was driving through the midwest. Everyone warned me rednecks shoot first and ask questions later. :eek:



You do realise that the existance of these laws leads to situations like where a husband\wife gets home early from a buiness trip and because its late sneaks into there house only to be shoot by the spouse thinking its a burgler?

Yup happens.



NATCHEZ, MS. — A Natchez man shot and killed his wife early Tuesday morning, mistaking her for an intruder.

Police Chief Mike Mullins said Glenn and Deborah Mizell woke to the sound of their barking dog.

Glenn went to investigate, taking a pistol with him.

Mullins said as Glenn patrolled the house, he was unaware that his wife had left the bedroom and gone into the kitchen.

“He mistook her for an intruder,” Mullins said.

When Glenn saw Deborah’s figure in the dark he fired his gun once, striking her in the chest.

Mullins said Deborah, 49, died at the scene.

The shooting occurred shortly before 4 a.m.

“From our preliminary investigation it appears to be an accidental shooting,” he said.

I never stopped to ask directions when I was driving through the midwest. Everyone warned me rednecks shoot first and ask questions later. :eek:
You're so full of crap. No one goes around shooting Indians in the midwest. Half the doctors around here are Indian. A good number of the engineers. And many of the gas station/convienience store owners. Hell, Abu Nahasapeemapetilon
http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/ul/13769-noscale-GH_SITAR_HERO.jpg
is now a household name thanks to his 18 year tenure on the Simpsons.

Not Indians per se. A Hawaiin girl told me to be careful in the midwest because everyone has a gun and shoots BEFORE asking questions. I wasn't going to take any chances, especially after reading what happened to the Japanese kid. :D

There's a huge Indian community in northern Ohio. Like all highly educated people, they fill the offices of my company and I've never heard a peep from them about racism except in going to Little Italy and (ironically) the various black neighborhoods. One of my fellow managers at Wal-Mart (long time ago) was of Indian-Trinidad lineage who took me to my first Hindu temple (http://www.shivavishnutemple.org/) located in the middle-class suburb of Independence, Ohio.

~String

redneck
Wtf is a redneck? Is that like a wigger or a camel jockey?

Wtf is a redneck? Is that like a wigger or a camel jockey?

She doesn't know except that it's supposed to be some kind of insult. Which it isn't. That's how you know she has no clue.

~String

Since S.A.M. gets to say redneck can we say sand nigger?

oilmastery

A redneck is a sterio type use as an insult. It refers to someone who is a surporter of far right policy and tends to be a gun nut and country bumkin. They also tend to be racists in general

Most Indians don't complain about racism. Except to each other. But its very prevalent. Believe me, I was as surprised by it as anyone else. Frankly after working with the Dutch and Australians, I expected better from Americans, not worse.

"To him who lives in fear, everything rustles."

Please. SAM, we both know that Indians are about the world's most articulate racists and have no compunction about treating "others" with disdain.

Vanni wasn't a stranger to complaining or voicing her overwhelmingly powerful opinion about anything , especially her great distaste for Muslims and blacks (both of whom populated the city where our store was located). I couldn't figure out where all the ire came from until I met her hoity-toity mother and father.

One of our employees, Raj, who was (oddly enough) a Brahman (with a really bad stutter) had nothing positive to say about lower castes, blacks, or whites either. But, being a minority, he was able to get away with a lot more than a white man could. In fact, Asians in general have the most flagrant racist attitudes I've ever seen. Try going in to a Chinese restaurant if you're a black man and see how good your service is. It's not Americans, it's pretty much everybody

It does, however, serve your political goals to exaggerate and invent stories in order to "prove" that Americans are worse. I mean, the USA is worse than Europe? Have you been there? I have, and I have never heard a Brit, Spaniard or French person ever say anything positive about Jews or Arabs. Antisemitism there is insane. In the USA, it's here, but it's nothing compared to Europe. And, I can't imagine what a black traveler has to put up with in Japan (I mean, they don't even like Koreans, and they're practically identical), China or India.

~String

Yeah, but its still politically incorrect to tell someone their group is racist. Being racist themselves has nothing to do with it. Indians are intensely politically incorrect about people and we relish stereotypes.

See jokes about Indians if you want to see what I mean:

Desi Jokes
Andhra Jokes
Bengali Jokes
Bihari Jokes
Bollywood Jokes
Gujrathi Jokes
Haryanvi Jokes
Malayalee Jokes
Marathi Jokes
Marwadi Jokes
Pakistani Jokes
Sardarji Jokes
Sindhi Jokes
Tamil Jokes

http://www.jokesfromindia.com/

Regardless, we were warned about differences in attitudes towards intruders in the midwest and so we did not stop anywhere. I'm not sure what the reception would have been if we'd just walked up to anyones house, though. In India, we would not think to ask.

MOD HAT:
OilIsMastery, i have previously warned you about your racist off topic posts

So, the issue here is that Americans are just as human as everybody else on earth and those human flaws were just too inconvenient for you to tolerate? Huh?

You avoided the Midwest because of ignorance on your part. The Midwest (Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota) are immigrant populated. Go to Detroit, St. Louis, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee or St. Paul and TRY not to find a boat-load of people from around the world. They assimilate here better than anywhere else on Earth. It's precisely why they come here! You'll find a lot more passive tolerance here than anywhere in Europe or Asia.

~String

No my point was that I was treated differently, which is why I did not stop anywhere. I'm not one to take some one else's word for it.

I have, and I have never heard a Brit, Spaniard or French person ever say anything positive about Jews or Arabs.
We probably weren't aware of the requirement.
Antisemitism there is insane.
It's insane anywhere. Did you mean that it's prevalent? It isn't. We might laugh at their funny beards but it's not like we make them sit at the back of the bus or anything.

Anyway, I'm enjoying all this national stereotyping, it's most... illuminating.

Let's do the French next. God, the French stink. :bugeye:

I always thought, maybe we all look like Middle Easterners to them?

No my point was that I was treated differently, which is why I did not stop anywhere. I'm not one to take some one else's word for it.

As an American I got spit on by a Vietnamese woman in Madrid who's family was killed by a guy I never met in a time before I was even born in a war I certainly would not have supported. I was shut out of shops in southern France and Italy. I had to "pay homage" to a Gambian airport police officer in order to secure my entry into the country (they saw the "rich" white boy coming a mile away). I had a British bar owner in Portugal sing "Yankee no!" until I left her bar. In Adeje, Tenerife (where I went to school) I had a teacher tell me how I was a stupid American because I didn't support the independence in Chiapas (then, an issue with political ramifications for the USA and Mexico). There were students in my school (in a very Communist area) who wouldn't even talk to me.

So the fuck what!

It doesn't make the country bad or the people that live there bad. Everybody gets treated "differently" when they are out of their element. You don't let it stop you unless you have reason to believe you're actually at risk. If you do, you're a coward.

~String

Probably, but being treated badly because of what your countries' policy represents is different from being treated differently because the shopowner thinks you cannot afford anything in the store. Its also quite silly since more than 40% of Indians are post docs and pretty successful. I think the situation has been worsened after 9/11, but certainly, it is concern in South Asians.

http://www.asata.org/issue/hateviolence

Probably, but being treated badly because of what your countries' policy represents is different from being treated differently because the shopowner thinks you cannot afford anything in the store.

Garbage. The net effect is the same: humiliation and anger. Does it really matter that a white biggot didn't want you in there because she didn't like the color of your skin or that a teacher treated me like dirt because of the US government? No. You suck it up and brush it aside as a human flaw. (Guess what? They're EVERYWHERE, even in the USA!) We both know that where ever you and I will go there will be people there who treat us like shit because of unreasonable issues. Your skin. My citizenship. I'd be damned if it stopped me from seeing something worth my while.

Hell, I'm not a Muslim, but I'm bound and determined to find a way into Mecca to see the Masjid al-Haram. Now, all I need to do is join a mosque for a year and get proof that I'm a Muslim and I'm in!

~String

Garbage. The net effect is the same: humiliation and anger. Does it really matter that a white biggot didn't want you in there because she didn't like the color of your skin or that a teacher treated me like dirt because of the US government? No. You suck it up and brush it aside as a human flaw. (Guess what? They're EVERYWHERE, even in the USA!) We both know that where ever you and I will go there will be people there who treat us like shit because of unreasonable issues. Your skin. My citizenship. I'd be damned if it stopped me from seeing something worth my while.

Didn't stop me either, I just did not knock on any doors. :D

Hell, I'm not a Muslim, but I'm bound and determined to find a way into Mecca to see the Masjid al-Haram. Now, all I need to do is join a mosque for a year and get proof that I'm a Muslim and I'm in!

~String

Just be sure to learn some prayers. :eek:

Or just wait a few years, once they get a university and the Pope builds a church, they'll realise how silly they look and open it up. The money will not be a deterrent of course.:D

what exactly does this have to do with laws that will probably get people killed simply by having them on the books?

As i said there are people who have a button which automatically calls the ambulance service, if they dont respond then an ambulance is dispached lights and sirens to the address and we break in (actually we use the key that is there for this purpose but whatever)

The person has lernt on it in there sleep and because of these laws they have no fear of being punished if they pull out a shot gun and shoot the ambos

And you think this is RIGHT???????????

I think it deals with fear, which is a part of xenophobic reactions to differences. I remember when one of my friends was screwed over by her advisor, her father [an Indian] simply would not believe it. But this is America!!! he kept saying, how can this happen in America!!! as if that made it impossible.

Didn't stop me either, I just did not knock on any doors. :D

Why in Shiva's name would you knock on doors, anyway?


Just be sure to learn some prayers. :eek:

Or just wait a few years, once they get a university and the Pope builds a church, they'll realize how silly they look and open it up. The money will not be a deterrent of course.:D

There's no rule for knowing much, just the need to declare one's self as a servant of Allah. I'm sure I'll pick up a certificate and I can always play it off on lie that I'm newly converted to the wonders of Islam and was excited about visiting the holiest city of them all. I already know the Five Sunni Pillars and what they mean. All I need is a solid Shahada and I think I'll be safe. I'm a pretty convincing actor.

Who knows. I might be moved and convert. Surely, Allah would be pleased then.

~String

Why in Shiva's name would you knock on doors, anyway?

Its how you do road trips in India. Just knock on doors and ask for water, food, directions.




There's no rule for knowing much, just the need to declare one's self as a servant of Allah. I'm sure I'll pick up a certificate and I can always play it off on lie that I'm newly converted to the wonders of Islam and was excited about visiting the holiest city of them all. I already know the Five Sunni Pillars and what they mean. All I need is a solid Shahada and I think I'll be safe. I'm a pretty convincing actor.

Who knows. I might be moved and convert. Surely, Allah would be pleased then.

~String

A lot of people lose faith after meeting the Saudis so I would not have too high expectations. And Mecca is like a giant crowded mall. Medina is more beautiful.

MOD HAT:
OilIsMastery, i have previously warned you about your racist off topic posts
You have? Probably because you were too busy ignoring and praising S.A.M.'s blatant racism.

You deliberately edited this thread to make it appear as though my comments are off topic. You deleted S.A.M.'s racist comments but left mine in to make it appear as though they are off topic.

A lot of people lose faith after meeting the Saudis so I would not have too high expectations. And Mecca is like a giant crowded mall. Medina is more beautiful.And yet isn't a trip to Mecca manditory for all Muslims? Perhaps it's Allah's way of testing your faith.

Its how you do road trips in India. Just knock on doors and ask for water, food, directions.

Really? Um. I just get a AAA (http://www.aaa.com/aaa/240/sne/membership/joinaaa.html?zip=02901&stateprov=ri&city=providence&keyword=a%20a%20a&gcid=S15141x017-Test1) Trip Tick, highlight the stuff I want to see. Fill up the tank. Bring some change for tolls and hit the road. There are plenty of petrol stations in the Midwest so worrying about running out of basics is not even in question. I've never heard of anybody, foreign or domestic, rapping on doors while traveling. A foreigner comes to my door and I have to wonder what the hell's going on.

A lot of people lose faith after meeting the Saudis so I would not have too high expectations. And Mecca is like a giant crowded mall. Medina is more beautiful.

If I go to the middle east I'm going to do more than Saudi Arabia, that's for sure. As an agnostic, I'm sure that the silliness of Islam will not enrapture me.

~String

Just keep in mind that they have never been colonised and are not aware that they are supposed to be westernised and you might find yourself surprised. :)

madant:

I think the original intention was to see the aridity and starkness of the land and realise the circumstances under which faith was born. Now its a shopping complex. Sort of defeats the purpose. But its still an experience, even though everything is marble and glass.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/415416993_f2165eb067_o.jpg

Just keep in mind that they have never been colonised and are not aware that they are supposed to be westernised and you might find yourself surprised. :)

Yes, because I haven't been to uncolonized nations, SAM. I'm such an insulated American. My year and a half in Europe and travels across Africa and Latin America have left me without any cultural understanting. Though, to wit, most of the nations I did visit were colonized at one time. Spain was a colony of Rome a few millennia ago. Ireland was ruled by those imperialists, the British. France was both colonized by the Germans and the Romans.

Damn. Where can I go that hasn't been invaded and colonized.

Wait. Nowhere on Earth has that title.

So, I shouldn't go in there chanting, "I'm an American, make way! I'm an American, make way!"

~String

Never been colonized? ROFL.

http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/ciai/socst/grade3/geoimages/Image16.gif

Yes, because I haven't been to uncolonized nations, SAM. I'm such an insulated American. My year and a half in Europe and travels across Africa and Latin America have left me without any cultural understanting. Though, to wit, most of the nations I did visit were colonized at one time. Spain was a colony of Rome a few millennia ago. Ireland was ruled by those imperialists, the British. France was both colonized by the Germans and the Romans.

Damn. Where can I go that hasn't been invaded and colonized.

Wait. Nowhere on Earth has that title.

So, I shouldn't go in there chanting, "I'm an American, make way! I'm an American, make way!"

~String


Hehe

I meant, among all nations today, the Saudis alone have never lived under any system but their own. Even incoming hordes from the East barely made an impression on their system, which has chugged along at its own pace. They are still living in the Byzantine age, with the veils and the kings and a different kind of society. The hardest part of it is slowing down, the pace is incredibly different. Though, I lived in the heart of the kingdom and maybe its not so easy to move around for visitors. But the people are very friendly and will show you a good time. There are even gay Saudis, though you should avoid coming out in public. :D

Saudi Arabia is more American than Massachusetts or San Francisco.

I don't think so, I've witnessed public beheadings there.

The hardest part of it is slowing down, the pace is incredibly different.

You've obviously never been to a Spanish tropical island. Any slower and they'd stop. They are leaps and bounds slower than people in the deep south--- and those m-f'ers are slow.

~String

I don't think so, I've witnessed public beheadings there.
Saudi Arabia supports the death penalty. Massachusetts and San Francisco don't.

I've driven along a pitch black highway in the desert for four hours. I felt like I was in outer space. Does that compare?

I've driven along a pitch black highway in the desert for four hours. I felt like I was in outer space. Does that compare?
Ever been to Arizona or New Mexico? I'd say it compares.

I've driven along a pitch black highway in the desert for four hours. I felt like I was in outer space. Does that compare?

Ever been to Arizona? It gets like that. It's cool and very peaceful.

~String

California or Saudi Arabia?

http://www.desertusa.com/magnov97/dunes/pics/buttercup2_07.jpg

http://www.desertusa.com/magnov97/dunes/pics/dunelarge2.jpg

Thats California. Saudi Arabia looks like this:


http://shakhabeet.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/saudi_desert_mountain_01.jpg

saudi arabia has lots of sand dunes as well.

~String

I thought Saudi Arabia looks like this...:D

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/92/280436187_89598799d1.jpg?v=0

saudi arabia has lots of sand dunes as well.

~String

Well I was in Taif, so I saw mostly mountains. If you can call those itty bitty things mountains. There is a really cool place in Jeddah where they have a pillar holding up a road on a mountain. Looks really scary, though you cannot tell when you're on the road.

Can't find a photo online, unfortunately.

And yet isn't a trip to Mecca manditory for all Muslims? Perhaps it's Allah's way of testing your faith.

only if you can afford to and are capable of it.

Yes, Saudi Arabia or New Mexico?

http://www.saudicaves.com/lectures/dunes.jpg