without bias which do you think is the better player.

dave mustaine is the FAAAR superior guitarist, technically speaking.

I'd say they are about equal, all things considered.
Kirk's flailing will have a certain significance to music historians of the future, even if it is flailing, it has something to it that fit what they were trying to do so perfectly.

its an interesting point, cole grey.

i meant the actually technicality of their play though. megadeth music is alot more complex, i think.

what do you think?

Well technically you should be comparing something like Marty Friedman vs. Kirk Hammet since Dave Mustaine (during the era of imo their best stuff) was playing mostly just rhythm. Either way it's absolutely no competition. Kirk Hammet is shit.

Mustaine is more interesting, Hammet more emotionally appropriate... neither are that great. From that era, I prefer John Connolly or Jeff Hanneman.

kirk hammet is more of an 80's powermetal guy that "sort of" broke out of the mold. even his music today carries the signature "WHEEEEEEEEE" that is so well known to 80's music fanatics (like myself)

mustaine also has it, i might add.

g.f.: true enough, but dave mustaine's rhythm playing is more complicated than most of hammet's lead playing....by FAR.

But, how about comparing James Hetfield's rhythm to Dave Mustaine's? James has some pretty masterful riffs to be singing as well. Look at the triplet pattern in Battery's verse, for example. To sing over that is pretty intense, in my opinion.

Technically speaking, Mustaine is better than Hammett. His runs are cleaner, tighter, and faster. But, I like Hammett's style better than Mustaine's.

its an interesting point, cole grey.

i meant the actually technicality of their play though. megadeth music is alot more complex, i think.

what do you think?
How technical is flailing? Not very. But still I don't think there is usually a reason to separate a musician's playing into the different aspects, because you don't listen to the aspects separately. And you never know what a person who is trying to get a lot of emotion out of an instrument could do if they practiced a different way, also you never know what kind of sonic intensity a more technical player would get if they tried to focus on the other aspect.

i would recommend downloading a megadeth music video from their "countdown to extinction" album, and a metallica "black album" video.

both players were at their peaks at that general time...thats the only way we can know :D

i would say that solo wise kirk is better but ryhthm wise then Dave is better, all the while Kirk was needed in metallica more than Dave as James is good enough ryhthm player in his own right

No way devil inside....if you're watching anything for Megadeth it definitely has to be from Rust in Peace.

IMO the best metal album ever made.

How technical is flailing? Not very. But still I don't think there is usually a reason to separate a musician's playing into the different aspects, because you don't listen to the aspects separately. And you never know what a person who is trying to get a lot of emotion out of an instrument could do if they practiced a different way, also you never know what kind of sonic intensity a more technical player would get if they tried to focus on the other aspect.

i dont think you get much more technical than .Justice for all, it was, if anything, over complex and metallica sometimes found it difficult to play songs like Frayed ends of sanity.Personally i think that kirk is my favourite which is why i voted for him, but i think that i probably should have voted for dave as he is the better technically.

Marty Friedman trumps them both in every aspect IMO.

I was learning metallica solos the second year after I touched a guitar.
That is not the work of a technical master.
I am not saying the solos weren't perfect in some way, but technically, no.

And I do remember marty friedman being known as one of "those" guitar players that I would have to say, "I could do that, if I sat around for days and practiced it," as opposed to "I can do that."

indeed, cole.
i had a friend that could perfectly replicate kirk hammet solos when he was 13.

Yeah but technique heavy pieces don't exactly make music good.

Most Jimi Hendrix solos and Led Zeppelin solos aren't very hard either but they're so musically ahead that speed is never the issue.


Michael Angelo Batio could give Marty Friedman a few guitar lessons but his music becomes a bore to listen to.

without bias which do you think is the better player.

There is no such thing as "without bias" for any question that requires an opinionated answer. There is no scale on which to judge the two guitar players, so how does that make any of your opinions unbiased? Now personally, I think that both players (and wholly, bands) are garbage, but I recognize the bias in that. I am biased because I dislike shitty music. You all are biased because you love it. End of discussion.

Yeah but technique heavy pieces don't exactly make music good.

Most Jimi Hendrix solos and Led Zeppelin solos aren't very hard either but they're so musically ahead that speed is never the issue.

I am not a fan of Metallica, Megadeth, Hendrix, or Zeppelin, but you are right on target with this comment. I think all the players involved are just using their instruments as some sort of musical wank-a-thon, but whatever.

I am not a fan of Metallica, Megadeth, Hendrix, or Zeppelin, but you are right on target with this comment. I think all the players involved are just using their instruments as some sort of musical wank-a-thon, but whatever.

what music do you like then

megadeth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGIT34zR74&search=dave%20mustaine)

i agree that marty is the better, i was wondering who thinks dave is better and who thinks kirk is better

megadeth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGIT34zR74&search=dave%20mustaine)

thx man thats awesome

after watching the video, I would say technically dave and kirk are probably on close to the same level, and obviously (as we knew) marty friedman is on another level.

where does steve vai rate with you, cole?

well i say Hammet is better. But i dont judge purely on thechnical ability, more on creativity and riiffmystership.

steve vai is technically more on a marty friedman level, with a more original approach.
I think somehow kirk hammett beats them all because his flailing wheedly-wheedly somehow just made people want to bang their heads.
The ignorance level sounds higher in his playing and that makes it more visceral, less mental, I think.

kirk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=kirk+hammet&v=Ik6Vs9JVIdk)

what music do you like then

Nothing that you like. I can guarantee you as much already.

I think somehow kirk hammett beats them all because his flailing wheedly-wheedly somehow just made people want to bang their heads.

Did you ever consider that Metallica was marketed on trendy "alternative" radio stations to young suburban boys in their "rebellious" teenage phase, and that any adult fans of Metallica are probably those who started as young fans beforehand? It absolutely does not mean that the music is good, and while I am sure that Hammett can technically play his guitar well enough, he still uses it to make shitty music for pseudo-angry douchebags (and adults who never grow up, I suppose) to pay the bills for his family. Get real, guys! Metallica is a product, you all are the consumers, and that makes Hammett a passable guitarist and a smart businessman. And nothing more.

Nothing that you like. I can guarantee you as much already.

try me, i like anything from camel to def leppard to megadeth to pantera to slipknot. i like blues, zep to peter green, i like DMX and Kanye West, i like dance music inc. faithless and the renaissance compilations

Did you ever consider that Metallica was marketed on trendy "alternative" radio stations to young suburban boys in their "rebellious" teenage phase, and that any adult fans of Metallica are probably those who started as young fans beforehand? It absolutely does not mean that the music is good, and while I am sure that Hammett can technically play his guitar well enough, he still uses it to make shitty music for pseudo-angry douchebags (and adults who never grow up, I suppose) to pay the bills for his family. Get real, guys! Metallica is a product, you all are the consumers, and that makes Hammett a passable guitarist and a smart businessman. And nothing more.
why is your opinion - and the word opinion is the only valid word to use when discussiing the value of any particular musician, because technique etc. isn't what music is about, it is sometimes technique in the service of how the music makes you feel, but that is all - more valid than the angry teenage boy?
Why do angry teenage boys still listen to metallica twenty years later? because it makes them bang their head, and they want to be mad, it isn't my place to judge their music.
One thing I have to say about people criticizing musicians - it is a hell of a lot harder than it looks to make good music, and a thousand times harder to do something that has its own sound.

cole: i used to play in an industrial band in the mid-nineties. one of my responsibilities was to write all of the backbeat drum machine and synth sounds.....
i agree fully with your above statement. nine times out of ten, i would scrap a finished piece of music, cuz i didnt want people booty dancing to it.

creating music is easy.....creating GOOD music is hard. i dont like metallica, but kirk hammet is an ok guitar player. he isnt anything special for me. dave mustaine either.

personally, i prize innovation over formulaic writing ANY day.
btw, i dig your music! i just had time to listen the other day. very cool! do you have any more of it?

try me, i like anything from camel to def leppard to megadeth to pantera to slipknot. i like blues, zep to peter green, i like DMX and Kanye West, i like dance music inc. faithless and the renaissance compilations

Most of that stuff, unfortunately, is forgettable garbage. No idea why Zeppelin is so popular with a lot of kids these days, but at least they wrote a handful of good tunes. I do respect Kanye West as a mainstream hip-hop artist striving to do something valuable and timeless, and I do not think he is there yet, but he is definitely off to a good start.

why is your opinion - and the word opinion is the only valid word to use when discussiing the value of any particular musician, because technique etc. isn't what music is about, it is sometimes technique in the service of how the music makes you feel, but that is all - more valid than the angry teenage boy?

I was not talking about technique. I was talking (mostly) about Metallica as a business model.

ok, how can you people seriously think that dave mustaine is a skilled guitarist? hes one of the sloppiest guitarists ever! hes almost at kerry kings level of sloppiness! when i saw him play his 3 solos on hanger 18, they sounded like a bunch of random noises and all he did was alternate pick!

kirk hammett is much more skilled than dave. why?
1.hes a lot less sloppy than dave
2.hes a lot more varied than dave
3.hes does several different techniques than dave

but i do agree that marty friedman pwns both of them.

marty is one of the best metal guitarists of all time along side jeff hanneman IMO