Our defence force is small, due to our small population. The focus has always been on good training, and decent equipment to cover 7.5 million square kilometres. The defence force planners have for years been trying to develop the ADF into a force, albeit small, which can defend Australia. Now the current government has entirely sold them out, and sold out the Australian people, by utterly changing the path of our military development. All of a sudden, those civilian bureaucrat morons have decided that we don't need decent ships and planes and such, all we need is to develop more infantry and special forces units to contribute to USA war efforts. I'm not joking. Their new plan is to built our military as something which can be of use to American war efforts around the world. Australia's defence is now a secondary concern. The primary goal of the civilians who have the yes or no about all this is to supply the USA with extra special forces units. Our usefulness to the USA is now their primary concern. Say goodbye to the Australian Defence Force, and say hello to the USA's Southern Pacific Division. http://www.defence.gov.au/ans2003/Report.pdf
OK no problem, ....Goodbye Australian Defence Force, and hello to the USA's Southern Pacific Division. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
And there's a problem? The certainty of United States military assistance has been factored into the defense spending of Australia for some time. You've been fooling yourself if you think otherwise. You can look at it in a couple of ways. Either bleat over your apparent bruised national pride or recognize that this allows Australia to free up resources that could be better spent elsewhere.
tadpole 1) You don't know diddly about the ADF. 2) I have already described our past doctrine. 3) No resources are being released to spend on other things. Military spending is remaining at about the same level. However, the proportions allotted to army, navy, and air farce are changing to support his new doctrine.
I dumped your .pdf (I hate that crap) and I believe I found an html version of the same report. I skimmed through it and couldn't find any huge change in philosophy. Can you point me to a specific proposal? It looks to me like Australia is only changing to reflect the new threats. The United States is doing the same thing! These armies and tactics were designed to counter cold war type situations. That's over, the new threats are terroristic in nature and require a different stratagy. If you can point me to an article or government release that shows Australia intends to rely more on the United States for any facet of it's defense than it currently does please do. I'm not saying that cynically, I would love to read it.
If Australian force restructuring is leaving the homeland undefended, it sounds like it's time for a grass-roots campaign to organize volunteer civilian militia forces necessary for providing the desired protection. That should be fun to watch. Is there private gun ownership in Oz?
Mr G Private gun ownership in Australia is very limited. However, I agree we should have militia training conducted by the infantry. I would suggest public armouries in each major town, well secured, perhaps in police stations or such, which can be used for these training sessions and in case they are actually needed.
Gun ownership certainly is allowed, but it's mostly in rural areas. Laws here make it quite difficult to actually own a gun otherwise, and it's nowhere near as common as in the US. As for militias, I doubt it'd gain any interest. We do have our weekend warriors (reservists), but Australians in general don't have the mindset to allow for any sort of militia training to be effective or desireable. Most of the problem with defending Australia is in it's lack of population. Regardless of how well you equip or train a regular army here, it pales into insignificance numerically beside that of nearest northern neighbour alone. Bearing that in mind, a problem for anyone planning Australian defence has always been where to get enough men. Australia has a huge disparity between available space, defendable coastline and population. Australia has had defence ties with the US since 1941, after PM Curtin's speech stating that "Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with United Kingdom." Have a look at this.. while a bit dated (2001) it appears to be a fairly good assessment of US-Australian military relations. One or two things I'm not sure I agree with (and might have changed recently anyway) but overall not bad. http://australianpolitics.com/foreign/anzus/01-06-30beazley.shtml Personally I don't think it's a good idea to concentrate too much one way or the other regarding special forces vs regular army. But I do believe that America would help if we were under attack... not necessarily for altruistic reasons, but because we're too valuable an asset, strategically or politically, to lose.
More than 330,000 Australians served overseas in World War I. Of these, nearly 60,000 died, 152,000 were wounded, and over 4,000 were taken prisoner, of whom 395 died in captivity. Over 993,000 Australians served in the armed forces during World War II. Of those on active service, 27,073 were killed in action or died, 23,477 were wounded, and 30,560 were taken prisoner of war. Of those taken prisoner 8,296 died in captivity. The Korean War lasted just over three years, ending with the signing of an armistice on 27th of July 1953. Australia would eventually commit three infantry battalions, a fighter squadron, an aircraft carrier, four destroyers and four frigates to the conflict (not all served at the same time). Two million civilians died in the Korean War. Military casualties for the UN and South Korean forces totalled 450,000, and for the Chinese and North Koreans 1,500,000. Australia suffered 1584 caualties (339 killed, 1,216 wounded and 29 prisoners-of-war). When the last Australian troops were withdrawn from Vietnam in December 1972 Australians had been fighting in Vietnam for more than 10 years. By that time more than 46,000 Australians had served in Vietnam. Battle casualties were 424 killed and 2369 wounded, of whom 43% were national servicemen. All taken from the Australian National Archives.
I can't speak to Adams knowledge (or lack of) about the ADF, but he never really provided any basis for his claim that Australia's defense had suddenly morphed into an American strong arm. The link he provided seems devoid of anything to substantiate that idea. My suspicion is that adam parrots the views of someone he admires without actually researching the subject himself. Your link helped alot Marqueis, I honestly only wanted to see how Adams opinion was formed. Thanks.. Adam, the more posts I see from you the less I'm impressed with your thoughts. Sorry man, I just want to be honest. From what I've always read and believed, Australia holds the very same values and freedoms dear that we in the United States do. Our agreement doesn't make Australia a "patsy" or a "puppet", it only means we are joined by a common ideal.
From the Ministry's 2000 Whitepaper: Bah. I've been typing this from my own copy. You can download it yourself and read it, from www.defence.gov.au . You will notice that previously, there has been an unwavering opinion that, even if we contribute to international operations around the globe, we must keep Australia's own defence as a priority. It's criminal to neglect that. From "Australia's National Security - A Defence Update, 2003": Now, one thing I must make clear is that this report has been prepared by civilians, by the bureaucrats. BY the people making deals in government. Meanwhile the military - the military now being screwed by this report and its consequences - is still concentrating up north.
This is incorrect. Defence planning for decades has maintained as a primary concern the possibility of invasion. That has nothing to do with the Cold War. Please read the material I have provided, and then do better and read the entirety of both reports. Then perhaps familiarise yourself with Australian military history. Otherwise go away.
Nope, I just demonstrated it. Unfortunately doing so required me typing in stuff that I know which the rest of you could know if you were not so lazy. Go and learn his stuff yourselves.
I'm sorry your ignorance has brought you to feel that way tadpole. Now go do some reading. Learn something.
Common ideal, or common purpose Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!. I've noticed that those who oppose the US have a tendency to call Australia a puppet of the US, and those who support it call ourselves allies. Terminology changes depending on who's doing the talking really. Nothing new.
