I'm currently watching a TV news special, an hour about that Jenin business. The news crews are in there looking at it all, interviewing people. There are bodies in the rubble all over the place. They joined a clean-up crew going through some rubble. In the rubble was a little girl, all mangled by a bulldozer.

My question for Israel-supporters: Was she a terrorist?

Fuck Israel.

Were any of the 100-some odd people killed in the past few months by suicide bombers terrorists?

A few civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect to a war, but Israel tried to save as many as possible. Why do you think they sent troops into Jenin rather than just shell the place to dust? The IDF suffered heavy losses at Jenin (over 30 I believe), which would not have been necessary if they were just out to kill some arabs indiscriminantly.

Civilian casualties are not an unfortunate and necessary side-effect of war. They are the result of lazy planning and execution, and racist bastards determined to force the Palestinian Arabs out of the area. I don't know what they teach wherever you are from, but in Australia's military they teach us to confirm our targets before even putting our finger on the trigger.

What happened at Jenin was unfortunate and could of been avoided. From what has been shown on TV, I get the feeling that some of Israels top brass are a little to eager to pull the trigger. And now with the Lakud Party pretty much trying to take over, its gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.

Originally posted by Tre
Were any of the 100-some odd people killed in the past few months by suicide bombers terrorists?

A few civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect to a war, but Israel tried to save as many as possible. Why do you think they sent troops into Jenin rather than just shell the place to dust? The IDF suffered heavy losses at Jenin (over 30 I believe), which would not have been necessary if they were just out to kill some arabs indiscriminantly.

LOL...Funny. Have you even seen some picutres? They did flat the town. Not with shelling but with Giant BullDozers. Where have you been??:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The whole Jenin situation was a massacre on behalf of the Israeli people.


As for the 'Fuck Israel' comments, this is a little harsh. I think you should change this to 'Fuck Racist Zionism' because this is what kills the Palestinians. Yes, many Israeli people have to be criticised for not standing up to their government but many do want peace. Can I also point out that there are many 'Tolerant Zionists' who do not support the invasion of Palestine but do believe that the Israelis deserve a homeland and go by the slogan 'One land - Two states'.

If you look at a picture of the town as a whole, you would see only small portions suffered such damage - portions that the IDF had confirmed as containing terrorists. But, the media wouldn't show you that fact; they're too busy stirring up controversy. Besides, there is no "Palestine." There are Palestinian-controlled areas inside of Israel, but as long as no official separation is agreed upon by the two governments, the Israeli army can police terrorist actions as they please. Unfortunately, the way the terrorists hide among innocents, like cowards, causes accidents to happen, and Israel takes the blame.

"They did flat the town."

Get your facts straight!

There was no military action in the town of Jenin!

Approximately three square blocks of the refugee camp were 'flattened'!

Loudspeeker announcements/warnings were made prior to any 'flattening'!

The refugee camp, source of many 'suicide' bombers, is under U.N.
administration! (and people wonder why the Israelis don't trust the
United Nations)

Take care :rolleyes:

On this show I watched about it, with the reporters wandering around in the rubble and all, well, it certainly looked like a town. Particularly the two story brick house (not common in refugee camps) where a guy was explaining how he'd lost his home and all.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20020515-89391238.htm

Thirty five year old 'refugee camps' look like 'towns'.

Take care ;)

If that's how the extremists treat their own people, how can anyone possibly sympathize with them?

Originally posted by Chagur
"They did flat the town."

Get your facts straight!

There was no military action in the town of Jenin!

Approximately three square blocks of the refugee camp were 'flattened'!

Loudspeeker announcements/warnings were made prior to any 'flattening'!

The refugee camp, source of many 'suicide' bombers, is under U.N.
administration! (and people wonder why the Israelis don't trust the
United Nations)

Take care :rolleyes:


Ahh Welcome back Chagur. So it wasn't a town? hmm Ok.. And there wasn't a military action?. Offcourse there wasn't, it was just all setup to look Israel bad. There wasn't any military it was all hoax, Palestanians kill them self and destroy their own homes and bulldozed their houses. And then they invited world media and UN and human rights watch and fool them all by good acting and stunts and nice fire work. And it all happened that Palestanians stole lots of IDF uniforms and their tanks and helicopters and uses IDF signs. Just to get world attention.


Oh and the videos of Cobra's firing rockets into the "town" on CNN and Merkeva's shelling the hell out of "refuge camp" and Huge Bulldozers flatnning the streets and houses were all special effects and graphical work some animation too. Done by specialy for Palestanians...........:p :p

Enjoy :cool: Peace

Originally posted by Tre
If that's how the extremists treat their own people, how can anyone possibly sympathize with them?

No one sympathize with extremists. There is no reason or need to. Loss of life matters either Israeli or Palestanians, both should be important.

Chagur:
The refugee camp, source of many 'suicide' bombers, is under U.N. administration! (and people wonder why the Israelis don't trust the United Nations)


This was nicely spun bit of propganda.

The UN do not 'administer' the refugee camp in any way. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) provides education, health, and relief and social services for refugees. UNRWA does not administer the camps nor does UNRWA have a political role in running the camps. It simply provides services for refugees who haver little or no access to basic facilities due to their refugee status. The UN has similar operations throughout the world and it is essential that it takes no political role in its efforts to provide humanitarian assistance to those in need.

I suggest you find out what it is, in fact, that they do as you appear to be happy to buy in wholesale to Israel's anti-UN propaganda. I shall provide a link:


UNWRA (http://www.un.org/unrwa/)

Thank you soooo much for the UN link.

Particularly since it included pictures of the 'destruction' of the refugee
camp, the first of which was of a UN vehicle apparently flattened by an
IDF tank, but no 'flattened' buildings in the backround.

See: http://www.un.org/unrwa/emergency/photogallery02/jenin/jenin-html/90.html

Hmm ... the UN doesn't 'administer', yet it had a presence and yet was
completely unaware of the Jenin refugee camp being a hotbed of Palestinian
terrorism. Most interesting. Or is that because 'terrorism' is political?

Talk about propoganda!

Thanks again :rolleyes:

I'm glad you found the link useful!

You're quite right, that picture does show some buildings still standing. Obviously, we were all miseld by the obviously faked pictures on TV of the rubble as there are clearly at least some buildings undestroyed.

We are clearly all without the benefit of your inside knoweldge of what really did occur in Jenin. Perhaps you could share the true picture? I'm as much in the dark as anyone else, and since Israel is not permitting an investigation, I guess we all will be for some time. Excluding your good self of course who appears omniscient in this matter. It's unfortunate you don't receive British television over there as we recently watched footage shot by a camera crew that managed to sneak in - 'Dispatches'. Very interesting. I look forward, should you one day see it, for an explanation. Of course it was tagged as 'what Israel doesn't want you to see' - but I'm sure we could adjust it to include your name on there.

As for the UN. Again, I bow to your superior rational thought. We should use aid agencies as espionage tools and get teachers to arrest militants and report to foreign governments on what is occurring. That's the way to ensure aid can always reach those in need in war zones.

I shall never again doubt the veracity of what eminates from the Israeli government or seek independent confirmation of what happened. How absurd of me to think it.

A humbled Captain Canada.

THIS is the page with the rubble of Jenin (http://www.un.org/unrwa/emergency/photogallery02/jenin/jenin.html)

Still, I'm seeing very small scale pictures...anyone want to toss us a satellite photo?

Decided to take another look at the pictures by McCann, and glad
I did. I missed this one:

http://www.un.org/unrwa/emergency/photogallery02/jenin/jenin-html/103.html

Apparently McCann and a number of other UN personnel had no trouble
'sneaking' in, including (according to the UN):

"The Commissioner-General of UNRWA, Peter Hansen, led a UN
delegation to Jenin camp on 18 April 2002, to oversee UNRWA's
emergency efforts in the camp and to meet with the traumatized
population."

How could I be so foolish as to believe those nasty Israelis.

Take care :rolleyes:

It's a conspiracy. McDonalds is behind it all.

Good to see you take your own topic so seriously