View Full Version : Its a catch-22


crazy151drinker
04-01-04, 11:44 AM
We need a steady supply of Oil. So we stick our heads in the Middle East.
The Middle East hates this and wants to destroy us.
At the same time, the Middle Eastern Economy is HEAVILY dependent on our consumption of Oil.
So in effect, they are biting the hand that feeds them.
So what happens when we switch to Hyrdogen cars, or we develop fusion power? We will pull out of the middle east and their Economies will nose dive.
PM, in reality you should want us there for as long as possible.

But dont worry we will develop alternate fuels, and the Middle East will become just like it was before the oil craze. A sandy desert parking lot that no one cares about. Think about it! No one will care! Have fun!

Closet Philosopher
04-01-04, 12:05 PM
the government is against the production of hydrogen cars. I saw a show on the fifth estate (http://www.cbc.ca/programguide/program/index.jsp?program=the+fifth+estate) that showed the close links between the U.S. government and The BUsh buisness. Bring in the democrats! Screw the Texans!

Once non-gasoline cars flood the market (in my lifetime, I hope) the U.S. will abandon all war on the middle eastm - No profit for them to go to war anymore.

Kunax
04-01-04, 12:12 PM
Time and Dependency, 2 illusive conspets.

before the oil craze?, you mean back when steam was the the strongest engine?

otheadp
04-01-04, 12:24 PM
i also heard that hydrogen cars, or alternatives to oil are already available, but are kept on ice.

the thing is, the west has economic ties with the middle east, which extends to cultural and diplomatic ties.

cut off the economic ties, and so will the cultural and diplomatic ones.
if cultural and diplomatic ties weaken, polarization and extremism will rise. it will be fuelled by poverty and instability.

in a sense, until the middle east reforms its markets and economies, and start other sectors besides their extremely inefficient oil market (which even with its high revenues, gives them an extremely low profit margin), the world is stuck with this oil addiction.

once the arabs have other things going for them, the world can switch to non-oil cars, and still maintain trade with the arab world. that way, the cultural and diplomatic ties will remain strong (will even strengthen actually), and the arabs will have prosperity

SpyMoose
04-01-04, 12:33 PM
I also heard that it takes more energy to separate hydrogen from water than you get by burning the hydrogen, so hydrogen can’t really be a replacement for fossil fuels.

otheadp
04-01-04, 12:43 PM
hydrogen is not the only thing being researched

air-powered cars (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-car.htm) are being developed, as well as other technologies (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-cell.htm).

there are many avenues... but they're being held back for, among others, the exact reason i talked about.

the west stopping the purchase of oil from the middle east will have the same effect as crippling trade sanctions which could lead to a 1000 new Osamas

Microzoft
04-01-04, 04:37 PM
There are many alternatives to fossil fuel, in fact there have been for a very, very long time. Because
of the worldwide energy cartel and the thousands vamps living generations from it all. All alternatives
were quickly labeled not feasible, too expensive or unrealistic. And only for media-cover-ups every now
and them with some small investments on alternative source research.

But the Fuel Cronies have their days counted, not because the masses are intelligent (which they are not,
they are only sheep’s), but because Fossil Fuel its running out. In fact the actual estimates calculated by
the so-called independent agencies as well as the producers never match.

We will get to the point (within the next 20 years) that it’s not going to be economical to even searching
for new fuel reserves. The Fuel Cronies would by then strategically have shifted their wealth to continue
their cartel in the next generations of energy.

But you guys don’t need to worry about that, by then you’ll be with God and it will be a problem
of your children.

Those of you that know ways to search for reliable source of information, have a check at who owns
the great majority of patents related to alternative energies. You can connect the points after that.

crazy151drinker
04-01-04, 04:57 PM
Well I just wish the fuel cronnies would switch to another fuel source. I'll pay more at the pump if that means the Middle East and all of its B.S. can rot.

SpyMoose
04-01-04, 05:06 PM
In a perverse sort of way I hope that the oil companies ARE sitting on the car that runs on love, and other alt fuel technology, because in twenty years or so, when peak oil production occurs, and we are never able to draw as much as we used to, and the world descends into economic chaos, I hope that stuff is waiting to bail us out.

spidergoat
04-01-04, 06:35 PM
There is plenty of energy in oil, the problem is that we burn it ineffeciently. We don't have to give it up, just make cars that get 100mpg, filter out all emmissions. hell my motorcycle gets 75mpg, and some VW deisels can get more than 50mpg. I saw some fatass guy on TV driving a big new spotlessly clean 4wd pickup truck complaining about the price of gas. Give me a break. The problem is the price doesn't reflect its true environmental cost. Gas should be more expensive, not cheaper!

spidergoat
04-01-04, 06:36 PM
Steam power was a good idea, we should bring it back.

Eluminate
04-01-04, 09:03 PM
cough cough 2008 or 12 is when the auto industry will make the shift to fuel cell technology so far 3 or 4 companies are begining to offer hybrid cars...
gm (using toyta tech i think)
toyota
honda i think not sure
ford (said they will release something soon
and one other japanese maker i think not sure
so its begining to happen dont worry but the world will still need oil its used to make plastics & other chems lots of oil byproducts exist

the main problem is that they don't know what should charge the fuel cells and other alternatives that would make it ecconomicly feasable + cost effective in order to mass produce and use in cars.

P.S. recently GM released an announcement that they created the first viable fuel cell thats viable but its still going to take time to miniaturize the technology and adapt it. So they are working on it. Also Bush did promote the switch from oil to other less dependant energies and said he will ENFORCE the deadline (not sure if its 2016 or 2022 by which cars should not be dependant on oil) And the fuel cell they made was in some factory and probably as big as a few rooms (just like the first computer) but they will get it smaller give em a few years and it will be more viable and usable on a commercial basis.