M*W: I got to thinking about the ancient humans who feared and awed the heavens and called it god. The Egyptians were ancient astrologers and, who knows, maybe some kind of ETs came down and built the pyramids. I don't know, but the pyramids were built with tunnels to view such heavenly bodies as the North Star or other stars. I believe all religious concepts came from the myths created by ancient humans based on their fear and awe of the heavens. With that said, Lucifer's rebellion probably was nothing more than a meteor shower and the myth began.

Now I fully understand why I am an atheist. The whole concept of a creator god is ridiculous. As if creating the idea of a god wasn't enough, mankind continued to perpetuate the solar myth and embellish it as humanity continued to evolve! Then comes the idea of the sun of god, the Morningstar. Some say it's the Planet Venus, but I see it as the Sun, a star that rises in the morning. I know the sun doesn't rise, but early humans did.

If we look at the zodiac, it clearly relates the mythstory of a creator god, the risen Christ, his 12 disciples, the 12 tribes of Israel, the myths of the patriarchs, and the list goes on forever. Old myths simply evolved into new myths for tens of thousands of generations, but modern man calls it history.

The whole concept of a creator god is ridiculous

I would not go so far as to say it is ridiculous. Just because the bible is ridiculous, does not mean the very idea of a creator is ridiculous. People seem to assume that ancient people were some how crippled intellectually due to a lack of technology. Hell, the ancient greeks had programmable computers. I could go on and on but I do not want to digress. Since nothing that we create would exist unless we created it it is natural to think that some people could be led to believe that the universe must have been created. And since we did not create it, something else must have. And since people can not create universes, something greater than oursevles must have. Ancient peoples were not stupid or pliant for having believed such things. Nor or modern people. Of course, it is not a likely explanation of the universe. But I am sure there were a fair share of ancients who did not believe in the sun god nor Isis. But since they did not happen to be pharohs who could profit from such beliefs, you won't here to much about them. Yes, the concept of a god creator is just that-a concept. But it is one that has made and does make a lot of sense to people struggling with the inability to imagine that a whole hell of a lot people could actually be wrong.

I the ancient greeks had programmable computers.I would very much like to see one of these, have you any thing I could look at ,thank you. Yes, the concept of a god creator is just that-a concept. But it is one that has made and does make a lot of sense to people struggling with the inability to imagine that a whole hell of a lot people could actually be wrong.and thay can and have been, religions have been around a lot longer then xianity, see here (http://groups.msn.com/AtheistVSGod/originofchristianity.msnw).
religious people are fickle, and as soon as one lose's it's flavour they will change.
if a thing is undoubtedly wrong and 6 billion people believe it's right, it's still wrong.

religious people are fickle, and as soon as one lose's it's flavour they will change.

Of course, that's the point. Nothing lasts forever. Just like the great ancient Egyptian, Greek, Mayan and Aztec religions died out, so will Christianity, Hinduism and Islam die out. There's a limited life in them, religions are not 'God'. They're the clothes of God, the wisdom of God... but the religion is always suited for certain people, at certain times... When people advance, they need a new religion, and in the end, they need no religion, they will believe in themselves instead.

Yoga is not a religion. It doesn't die. It's a part of life.

if a thing is undoubtedly wrong and 6 billion people believe it's right, it's still wrong.

Correction: wrong for YOU.

myth maybe, but in those myths the secrets to our existence is concealed, not just the means of the true astrology but psychology, physics, chemistry, metaphysics, metapsychology, cosmology. it is in the hands of mankind as it has been for thousands of years and years to come. and so long as the religious movements do not become too corrupt those keys to our existence are there for any one who cares deeply enough to seek the truth.

so long as the religious movements do not become too corrupt

Religion IS the ultimate corruption. It's slavery of the human mind would never allow for mankind to completely embrace those sciences (pseudosciences not included) and find the answers to the universe.

MW, I loved your threat title :D

M*W: but modern man calls it history.
What will you call it, (her)story?

What will you call it, (her)story?
*************
M*W: Your ignorance is showing, but what else is new? If you were knowledgeable in the history of the world, you would know how women were left completely out of our human evolution. Hence, the word "history." If the truth be known, how ancient women picked berries and plants and caught small animals to feed their children while the brave cavemen were out on big hunts and, for the most part, did not return. If it weren't for those ancient women, none of us would be here. Forget religion. Forget pseudo-christianity. That all came later, invented by cavemen who believed the sun to be god. Again, I will state that the story of Jesus is a "mythstory," and the history of the human race should be called "herstory," not "history." But, you're a male chauvinist pig of the Filipino kind, so I don't have too high of expectations for your intelligence.

*************
M*W: But, you're a male chauvinist pig of the Filipino kind, so I don't have too high of expectations for your intelligence.
I don't care but the fact remains the same: you're a man with a womb (am I right?) Or shall I state it this way: you're a man to be wooed or woed?

I don't care but the fact remains the same: you're a man with a womb (am I right?) Or shall I state it this way: you're a man to be wooed or woed?
*************
M*W: Wrong. I'm a woman in every sense of the word and desirable at that! Just because I don't agree with your religious beliefs, you think I'm manly! That's funny, but it still shows your ignorance! Most of all, it shows your homophobia. You're still a MCP... make that a FMCP. I'm sure you've heard what Howard Stern says about your kind. I agree. Come to think of it, you probably do like big ones up your ass. You know what they say about those Filipino house boys.

*************
M*W: Wrong. I'm a woman in every sense of the word. Ask etymologists if you are a woman in every sense of the word. You came from man. Your mother and your father decided and God granted them. Your mother bore you in her womb. You were born biologically. So, you shared a heredity from a man. Therefore, you're not a male specie but a fe-male specie (i.e., you are sharing the life of the male specie). Clear?

Ask etymologists if you are a woman in every sense of the word. You came from man. Your mother and your father decided and God granted them. Your mother bore you in her womb. You were born biologically. So, you shared a heredity from a man. Therefore, you're not a male specie but a fe-male specie (i.e., you are sharing the life of the male specie). Clear?
*************
M*W: I don't need to ask anyone what my gender is. I am familiar with genetics.

*************
M*W: I don't need to ask anyone what my gender is. I am familiar with genetics.
I will ask you: Which comes first gender, genetics or genesis?

enton,

Ask etymologists if you are a woman in every sense of the word. You came from man. Your mother and your father decided and God granted them. Your mother bore you in her womb. You were born biologically. So, you shared a heredity from a man. Therefore, you're not a male specie but a fe-male specie (i.e., you are sharing the life of the male specie). Clear?

Please join us in the 21st century.

Embryos are gender non-specific in the womb. At the right times the balance of testosterone, estrogen, and other hormones determine whether (among many other things) the gender neutral gonads will become ovaries or testes. The idea that the male is somehow dominant in development is assinine. In fact, if testosterone is not present at the right point the embryo will become female by default. So, in a sense all embryos are female unless directed otherwise. We are second rate in the world of embryos my estrogen-challenged friend.

"tis funny that I should even bother to read another religion thread, But I do so because of my admiration and respect of Medicine woman the thread starter.
How has MW gained my respect?
Because I know she thinks about what she believes in. She applies critical thought to everything she believes in. Sure Like myself she is not infalable but at least she knows this where as others do not.

Just be aware Enton before you attack someone that you are attacking all her friends as well.

To treat women in the way you have implied is deserving of nothing else but utter contempt. To veil it in the disguise of Christianity is even more obscene to those Christians who whorship all of Gods creations and not just the Male.

MW has voiced an opinion, which I feel is deserving of being heard and considered.

Humanity has been and still is a very superstitious race, their fear fueling their belief systems. For some how ever it fuels their arogance and Chaulvinism. [ meaning: Excessive or prejudiced support or loyalty for ones cause or group or gender]
And of course the only reason for the extremes of chaulvinism is an inferiroity complex that shows just how insecure you are as a man and a philosopher, thinker.

BTW medicine woman I agree with you threads contention, but must also venture that this is all part of mans evolution towards conquering his paranoia with reason and knowledge. A necessary part of mans evolution to a better way of existing.

I will ask you: Which comes first gender, genetics or genesis?

genitals!

enton,



Please join us in the 21st century.

Embryos are gender non-specific in the womb. At the right times the balance of testosterone, estrogen, and other hormones determine whether (among many other things) the gender neutral gonads will become ovaries or testes. The idea that the male is somehow dominant in development is assinine. In fact, if testosterone is not present at the right point the embryo will become female by default. So, in a sense all embryos are female unless directed otherwise. We are second rate in the world of embryos my estrogen-challenged friend.

Yes. I have been now in the 21st century of calendar makers. Did I ever mention that there is conflict between the creation of man in Genesis and science? I don't tolerate to biological knowledge anymore because I am finished in it and it's very fundamental to recall my biology class.

We are second rate in the world of embryos my estrogen-challenged friend. Did I ever say men are first rate in the world? In fact, I am talking religiously that men(any kind of humang being) of God are the first rate in this world. Question: Who sees these men of God as first rate in this world? Answer: Of course, who else, but God.

-snip-

I figured this out years and years ago. What, did it take you this long to get it?
Religion is a tool by man to control the masses, and it uses fear, violence, myths, and legends to as its tools of coersion.

I figured this out years and years ago. What, did it take you this long to get it?
Religion is a tool by man to control the masses, and it uses fear, violence, myths, and legends to as its tools of coersion. To young to think! I advice you better ask your parent's advise before anyone here can influence your young mind. :)

"tis funny that I should even bother to read another religion thread, But I do so because of my admiration and respect of Medicine woman the thread starter.
How has MW gained my respect?
Because I know she thinks about what she believes in. She applies critical thought to everything she believes in. Sure Like myself she is not infalable but at least she knows this where as others do not.

Just be aware Enton before you attack someone that you are attacking all her friends as well.

To treat women in the way you have implied is deserving of nothing else but utter contempt. To veil it in the disguise of Christianity is even more obscene to those Christians who whorship all of Gods creations and not just the Male.

MW has voiced an opinion, which I feel is deserving of being heard and considered.

Humanity has been and still is a very superstitious race, their fear fueling their belief systems. For some how ever it fuels their arogance and Chaulvinism. [ meaning: Excessive or prejudiced support or loyalty for ones cause or group or gender]
And of course the only reason for the extremes of chaulvinism is an inferiroity complex that shows just how insecure you are as a man and a philosopher, thinker.

BTW medicine woman I agree with you threads contention, but must also venture that this is all part of mans evolution towards conquering his paranoia with reason and knowledge. A necessary part of mans evolution to a better way of existing.
Concerning my supposed {"attacking"} misbehavior. I don't have any intention to hurt someone. I didn't raise a topic which hurts someone. It's your interpretation of the way I responded to your threads. I am not excessive or prejudiced. As part of my obligation to spread the truth regarding (our) humanities, it's sad there are people who object the Creator. They are even happy when someone thanked them (i.e., a doctor who happens to be the cause of the patient's immediate recovery). They forgot the medicine, the very medicine they thought. They forgot their thoughts too how in this entire existence did it happen that men learned to clothe by themselves and speak a language understandble by themselves. :rolleyes: Atheists, agnostics, pagans and many other anti-Bible grops are lucky enough that they are humans and not beasts or creeping things or fish or fowls.

"tis funny that I should even bother to read another religion thread, But I do so because of my admiration and respect of Medicine woman the thread starter.
How has MW gained my respect?
Because I know she thinks about what she believes in. She applies critical thought to everything she believes in. Sure Like myself she is not infalable but at least she knows this where as others do not.

Just be aware Enton before you attack someone that you are attacking all her friends as well.

To treat women in the way you have implied is deserving of nothing else but utter contempt. To veil it in the disguise of Christianity is even more obscene to those Christians who whorship all of Gods creations and not just the Male.

MW has voiced an opinion, which I feel is deserving of being heard and considered.

Humanity has been and still is a very superstitious race, their fear fueling their belief systems. For some how ever it fuels their arogance and Chaulvinism. [ meaning: Excessive or prejudiced support or loyalty for ones cause or group or gender]
And of course the only reason for the extremes of chaulvinism is an inferiroity complex that shows just how insecure you are as a man and a philosopher, thinker.

BTW medicine woman I agree with you threads contention, but must also venture that this is all part of mans evolution towards conquering his paranoia with reason and knowledge. A necessary part of mans evolution to a better way of existing.
Concerning my supposed {"attacking"} misbehavior. I don't have any intention to hurt someone. I didn't raise a topic which hurts someone. It's your interpretation of the way I responded to your threads. I am not excessive or prejudiced. As part of my obligation to spread the truth regarding (our) humanities, it's sad there are people who object the Creator. They are even happy when someone thanked them (i.e., a doctor who happens to be the cause of the patient's immediate recovery). They forgot the medicine, the very medicine they thought. They forgot their thoughts too how in this entire existence did it happen that men learned to clothe by themselves and speak a language understandble by themselves. :rolleyes: Atheists, agnostics, pagans and many other anti-Bible groups are lucky enough that they are humans and not beasts or creeping things or fish or fowls.

Ahh!! I see,

the problem is Enton that if you want to pursue your obligation to spread the "truth" regarding humantities.......you got to learn not to shoot your self in the foot when you do it......if you have no credibility no-one will listen.

enton:

my obligation to spread the truth regarding (our) humanities, it's sad there are people who object the Creator.

This is why all secularists want your kind to be given their own island so that your disease can be confined. We could give you Greenland. Satisfy your "obligation" by spreading your "truth" among the glaciers. It will have as much effect on them as it has on us.

I would suggest that you, enton, are an egocentric megalomaniac. To think that you have some connection and obligation to some creator of the universe to be it's agent of "truth" is fairly mind boggling egotism, don't you think? How dare you claim to have "THE truth" based on nothing more than an old, poorly written book and some tradition? You have constructed this castle of virtue and "truth" around yourself, but we see it for what it really is. A gossamer web of self delusion that is torn to tatters by the slightest wind of inquiry.

Poetic spasm over.

Medicine Woman:
I wanted to see if you agree with this notion:

"We would gain greater benefit from the Bible if we were to treat it in it's entirety as a work not to be taken in any aspects as literal. That it always be treated as a book of metaphor, irony, stories and poetry.

That the bible looses it's value as soon as it is seen in any part to be literal.
That the literal interpretations renders the bible as paradoxed and confusing. "

What I am thinking is that to me the bible is a wonderful vehicle for mythstery. It has stories of dramatic proportions and can teach us all many things about ourselves. However as soon as we attempt to interpret it in a literal or scientific manner it's message is lost to conjecture and arguement.

For example I find the story of the Christ, more beneficial if I drop the need for literal interpretation. A beautiful story of love, passion and devotion, not to mention bastadary, suffering, insanity and bigotry.

If people are allowed to keep the bible as a cryptic book of stories whose fact or fiction be left aside, there is value in the reading.

The book of Ecclesiastes, another example, has I find great value when dealing with issues of depresion and worth etc.....but because of all the arguement over scientific veracity the story is lost to most critical thinkers.

years ago I wrote this poem

A monolith of extraordinary proportions
A statement of histories plan
A showpiece of deluded distortion
The insignificance of man.


Any thoughts........any one?

.That the bible looses it's value as soon as it is seen in any part to be literal.That the literal interpretations renders the bible as paradoxed and confusing. "[/I]? Many people are confused in reading the Bible because of the influence of the advocates of confusion like the author of "Da Vinci Code", the author of "The Book of Barnabbas" and the authors of myths.

.What I am thinking is that to me the bible is a wonderful vehicle for mythstery. It has stories of dramatic proportions and can teach us all many things about ourselves. However as soon as we attempt to interpret it in a literal or scientific manner it's message is lost to conjecture and arguement..Good that you were able to perceive the "wonder" of the Bible. And due to the fact that people who do not come to know the fullness of the mystery of the words of God written in the Bible, they just simply and easily conclude that the Bible is a myth. (Actually those people who judged the Bible being a myth do not even know the reason why there are myths around.)
.For example I find the story of the Christ, more beneficial if I drop the need for literal interpretation. A beautiful story of love, passion and devotion, not to mention bastadary, suffering, insanity and bigotry..You are much more insane than the rehabilitated drug-addict if you take all the words in the Bible into their very simplistic literality.
.If people are allowed to keep the bible as a cryptic book of stories whose fact or fiction be left aside, there is value in the reading. There is no value in reading the Bible if the outcome is dangerous to men (detrimental to society) like those who believed they would not die after drinking deadly poisons. What should be the result is that you pick the livable passages in the Bible. Learn from the biblical history. And compare too the recent events in our time like the Tsunami phenomena and/or the Katrina Hurricane.

.The book of Ecclesiastes, another example, has I find great value when dealing with issues of depresion and worth etc.....but because of all the arguement over scientific veracity the story is lost to most critical thinkers..I doubt if you agree with my perception. Most critical thinkers challenge the wisdom of Solomon being mentioned in the Bible as the wisest human king that ever lived in the world.

.years ago I wrote this poem

A monolith of extraordinary proportions
A statement of histories plan
A showpiece of deluded distortion
The significance of man.


Any thoughts........any one?
David too, the Prophet-King-Poet. I don't have any comment on your poem but mine are here http://www.poetrypoem.com/rholu . :D