Let's suppose Israel said 'screw it' and just went to war with all its neighbors. How far do you think they would get? Let's assume that the US is giving supplies and weapons to Israel, but is not sending soldier to help.

If their past record is anything to go by they'd get pretty far. Of course this is assuming that the arab countries would each go it alone again.

Israel is the only country that has convinced me that, when in direct conflict with another nation, total victory on Israel's side is assured. One theory is that god is behind them, although this is crazy, I think the idea is written somewhere in the bible...

Anyhoo, yes, Israel could probably conquer the whole middle east if it wanted to. Given the badasses that keep destroying the peace process on both sides, WW3 will undoubtedly develop there sooner or later unles the trend of violence is halted.

Here is a map to help everyone out.
http://www.aaiusa.org/images/middleeast.jpg
It's pretty crude in respect to the Israeli region, but it was the first postable one I found and I'm lazy.

Eddie Monkey: "Let's say Israel said 'screw it' and just went to war with all their neighbors. How far do you think they would get?"
They would get into shallow dusty, rocky, or watery graves. You have just described the present situation fairly accurately (it is a cold war regionally, and a hot war with those immediately in the way of the Sharonistas). What happens now, if the USA steps on its own anatomy, and can't afford to support Israel's MegaMasada economically and politically, is that Israelis had better think fast- that means using their formidable brains, and not their finite American bullets.

I'd say they can occupy Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, and part of Egypt. If they really put their minds to it, they can probably take over Iraq and Iran as well.

How far do you think they would get?
They'd occupy, but not neceassarily own, all of the Sinai Peninsula, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and western Iraq.

It's interesting to note that they've given back most of the land that they've given back most of the land they'd captured in wars.

My prediction, with the following assumptions-
1. Pretending the US is not about to go to war with Iraq
2. Israel would not attack Turkey, Saudi Arabia, or Kuwait because they are allies of the United States

Isreal would conquer and easily defend the Sinia Peninsula, while doing extensive damage to Cairo, and could take much of Egypt if it wanted to. It could also conquer Syria, Lebenon, and Jordan with little difficulty. Iraq would be a problem, but if Israel really wanted to could invade and occupy that nation.

Well, we know Israel is not going to attack Turkey. They're a NATO member. Regardless of what France and Germany do, NATO members are bound to their defense. The US and Britain would be bound by charter to defend Turkey.

War will never provide the final solution for zionists. (I know, insensitive wordplay) War gets everyone verklempt. When enough is enough, what if every Arab started walking toward al-Quds?

The war would have to be kept up hugely on two major fronts: Egypt and Jordan/Lebanon/Iraq. Assuming there was no war between the US and Iraq, the Iraqi's would use whatever weapons they could on the East and this would present some problem. On the West we have Egypt with a very powerful army. If Lebanon, Jordan and Syria could ever organize themselves well enough they could present massive problems to the Israeli army in the north, north-east. However, to quote one author on the Israeli/Pali issue "The only time the Arab nations can agree on anything is when uniting against Israel. And even then they generally don't agree." My guess is that, like in previous wars, there would be problems between what Egypt wanted the aforementioned three to do and what they want Egypt to do.

In terms of expansion, Israel would never occupy all of Egypt. Besides the simple fact they don't want to, Egypt is a lot of land to cover if you're fighting an all-fronts war. Lebanon and Jordan (and, likely, Syria) could all be occupied. Iraq Israel would likely try to occupy for the sake of getting rid of a major enemy.

Originally posted by Tyler

In terms of expansion, Israel would never occupy all of Egypt. Besides the simple fact they don't want to, Egypt is a lot of land to cover if you're fighting an all-fronts war. Lebanon and Jordan (and, likely, Syria) could all be occupied. Iraq Israel would likely try to occupy for the sake of getting rid of a major enemy.

Yes. Israel would probably just take over the Sinia Peninsula, and perform massive bomb raids of Egyptian bases and cites. But I think Egypt and Israel are getting along, so war would probably not be fought on that front, but I could be wrong.

If Israel invaded lebanon, syria, or jordan (maybe iraq) then Egypt would probably jump in against Israel.

I think it was only 2-3 weeks ago an Egyptian member of the Defence stated that Egypt should be pushing forward with a full war with Israel.
They're getting along in the sense that they aren't currently killing each other, that's it.

Originally posted by hypewaders
Eddie Monkey: "Let's say Israel said 'screw it' and just went to war with all their neighbors. How far do you think they would get?"
They would get into shallow dusty, rocky, or watery graves. You have just described the present situation fairly accurately (it is a cold war regionally, and a hot war with those immediately in the way of the Sharonistas). What happens now, if the USA steps on its own anatomy, and can't afford to support Israel's MegaMasada economically and politically, is that Israelis had better think fast- that means using their formidable brains, and not their finite American bullets.

TAC responds: Hum, it seems many of you ( you too hypewaders" ), learned so little about the 800 lb. US gorilla getting its arse thoroughly kicked in Vietnam, that you have learned as much about common sense as the Jews learned from their Holocaust experience, huh? :eek:

Sad to say--DIM BULB is getting the US turned sideways in an argument with Islam that it will live to regret. :(

Why?

#1. You cannot prepare for war while claiming to seek ME peace, nor can you send an Israel apologist like Clinton's Dennis Ross, ( or even DIM BULB's, CIA director, George Tenet, to seek an "even handed" peace agreement between the Jewish/Palestinian warring factions ). Now, Dennis Ross, the bass terd works for an AIPAC funded think tank and does pro-Israel commentary on the FOX JEWS NETWORK, almost daily! :(

#2. You gain no respect from "anyone" by arming the Jews and disarming the Arabs and looking the other way as Israel violates the US Export Arms Act, on a daily basis, by murdering Palestinian's with the US' weaponry and the Whitehouse's tacit approval.

#3. Sending US supplied freebee AH-64 Apache attack helicopters bristling with US supplied Hellfire/TOW antitank missiles, F-16's and the horrendous 120 mm antipersonnel "Flechette" shells to Israel to be utilized by Israeli Merkava tanks to indiscriminately murder basically unarmed Palestinian civilian's, while continuing to condemn Palestinain retaliations against the IDF/Settler killers; or even b!tch about Iran's sending Katy rockets to Hizbollah in Lebanon and antitank mines to the Arafats' PA is the height of US hypocrisy!

#4. The US is the biggest exporter of WMD's to the Middle East ( and we threaten sactions against North Korea for selling less than a billion $ of advanced Scud-C IRBM's to Yeman and Syria?! ).

I say, George W. Bush, is the subject of an intense US Congressional investigation in 2004 regarding his failure to fully pursue and investigate the WTC/Pentagon attacks, and that in the end he will be found remiss ( short of directly responsible ) for ignoring many intelligence leads that pointed to an upcoming attack on the US main land by O 'Sammy ( "El Che! ) bin Laden & Company.

Oh GOD, with a $1.85 trillion in projected deficits for fiscal 2003, ( US unemployment up by 58,000 this week ). I fear that our children's grand children will still be paying for these Republican CHICKEN HAWKS fiscal fiasco--and that this jerk in the Whitehouse will go down in history as the worst president this country has ever had "thrust" down its throat. :bugeye:

Speaking about MASSADA, a place where--surrounded and outmanned by the Roman's--over 3,000 Jews committed suicide--lest they got their clocks cleaned. Cowardly Bass Terds, they shoulda had a few Palestinian's leading the offense! :eek:

TheAZCowBoy, "You gotta know when to hold them--know when to fold them"--George W. Bush. :)


TheAZCowBoy, :D

Funny, you all think that arabs can fight a war??? Where are you getting this idea from? first they are all puppets of usa, israel need no war with them, just tell usa to control or occupy what ever country. last fight arab fought like real soldiers, .............ummm I don't even remember. Israeil has a strong army but without usa/western support, it can't do much. Remember they need spares for everything and if they try to engage iran..........well that's another story.

Manhattan still shows the aftermath of cruel, effective warfare. Prices at the gas pumps are showing the first tiny blip of unfathomed economic warfare. There is lots more for the asking: Would you like the Arabs you dismiss as your inferiors to show you some more fight?

Originally posted by Persol
It's interesting to note that they've given back most of the land that they've given back most of the land they'd captured in wars.

TAC: V2.0 of your Middle East historical encyclopedia does not compute, Persol. :(

Was it printed in ZioNazi Israel? :)

The only thing Israel gives back is the empty BRINKS ARMORED CAR money bags!

Oh, my dear Goyim, you need to go back to Tel Aviv university and get your facts right. :p

TheAZCowBoy, :eek:

"Oh Hypewaders, how can you be so, @$&*^*&%?"

What does "@$&*^*&%?" mean? That I read your posts more carefully than you do mine? That I rant too short? :D

In past wars, Israel has never been the aggressor. That has always been part of their success, IMO.

If Israel had got involved in a fullscale middle-eastern war, I'd expect a few interesting things to happen. Firstly, Egypt would not make the mistake of attacking Israel [a third(?) time]. They have a lot more to loose know. All that Israel would need is to take control of the Aswan or just bomb the snot out of it and Egypt is toast. Besides, relations with Egypt are fairly good in comparison to those with other nations. To put that in perspective, you CANNOT cross into Lebannon. The border is basically an impassable fence. I've seen it. It's a gross spectacle.

Syria would put up a fight, but wouldn't get very far. Lebannon would put up guns and pitchforks too, but like Syria, would not be very successful. Iraq and Iran would be a challenge. But on the whole, I think Israel would do quite well. Israel's army is full of sabres (pronounces saabreez) that have been to hell and back. Believe me. My father - former Israeli soldier - is an everyday reminder. Everything with him is about precision and constant dissatisfaction with the imperfect. He can be a very nice guy, but living with him is a funny thing.

>Israel has great capabilities, but the capacity is so limited because of resources.

Bringing me to the problems:

1) Europe, and most of Israels immediate neighbors are anti-Israeli, anti-Zionist. This means that in any conflict, Israel is at risk of trade embargo's and political aggression.

2) The ratio of Arab's to Israeli's is huge. By numbers, it would seem almost impossible to defeat such neighbors. The truth, however, is that the game of numbers is almost always outplayed by strategy. I worry that Israel's army is not big enough to control the banded population of Arabs. Nothing a nuke or two (God forgive me) wouldn't fix. And that's the second problem. Human life is such a fragile thing.


In the end, no matter what happens, I expect nothing less than total domination by Israel, even if it costs them their statehood. That's always been why they've won in the past; and if Israel ever needed me to fight, I'd be there in a heartbeat. :)

We might be able to defeat the Arab armies, but not control all the land. Israel is not capable of such logistical effort.

Originally posted by hypewaders
"Oh Hypewaders, how can you be so, @$&*^*&%?"

What does "@$&*^*&%?" mean? That I read your posts more carefully than you do mine? That I rant too short? :D

TAC responds: @$*^*&%? means, you're in the lower 10% of TAC's graduating class Hype! ( Hey, but there's still time--want some extra credit work, da? )

I appreciate you read my posts "carefully," I see by the whiplash marks on your back and buttocks that you have gotten smart along life's path--like me--the hard way, boy! :D But you need to cut back on the :m: it's not something for DEEP THINKERS like you to be OD'ing on. :)

As for the length of your rants. I gathered sometime ago that you were asthmatic because after a few words you start hyperventilating, jajajaja. :p

Hang in there Hype, "the best is yet to come!" :eek:

TheAZCowBoy,

"To know him is to love him!" Right LadyFlores@SciForum.com." :D

Today, Israel may occupy a good chunk of the Middle East, but to controll it will be far more difficult. The main advantage on the Israeli side is the advanced weaponry, but as anything in history, this is a temporary situation, the adversaries will get their variances of advanced weaponry, and we will have a perpetual conflict, of whom everybody will be a losser. No military domination is forever, and the longer and deeper is it, the more adversities will raise. This is the lesson of history, but we do not learn, stupidity being the main characteristic of our specie.
No other animal is driven -as we are- by the meningless ideea of conquest, at any cost and for no reason. We are doomed to repeat perpetually our mistakes and not to learn of them.
Good luck, we needed it.

Regards.

As an ex-Israeli fanatic and ex-US, fighter pilot that trained IAF pilots for two years, teaching them how to FLY-FIGHT & WIN! A human being that finally woke up ( as the world begins to ) to the fact that while Zionism may not be racism ( acording to the atheist Jews of that Aztec - like bloodiest of "cults" and the US" right wingers ), indeed, it is a mirror image of the brutalities of Herr Hitlers, Eichmanns, Goerings, et. al., magic kindom of Nazism.

Yes, the LIKUDNIK thugs and murderers--among them, led by the biggest ( and fattest ) and bloodiest atheist Zionist in the history of Israel ( after Menechem Begin, that is ), Arik Sharon, has shown the entire planet that all the most wreched "tools" of racism and hate at the disposal of the SS guards and executioners at Austzwich, Treblinka, Lotz and the infamous Warsaw ghetto, have been used to the maximum in the rape of embryonic Palestine and its downtrodden people ( 1947-2003 ).

Today, the decent Jews of the world ( Gush Shalom, Ladies in Black, US Jews, et. al. ), just "gasp" as the daily death toll of Palestinian civilians increases "expontentially" right before the world's video camera's ( in the hands of "anti-semites," of-course :p ). The shamelessness of the BUSH/US administration--and their Jewish albatross neckless--Arik Sharon, who both continually ( convieniently? ) state that there will be no peace negotiations "Until the violence stops," and over the past 65 days as the Paly's just sat there being murdered, maimed, abused and displaced--the "shameless" US president said, and did nothing, to abate the continuing murder of Palestinian's--who finally--in deperation--sic'd a young desperate Palestinain boy/CRUISE BOMBER on a Haifa bus--killing himself and a bushel basket of Zionist trespassers in the land of Saladin. Yes, it was EZ for US prez DIM BULB to condemn the bombing--but the SOB said nothing of the 72 Palestinian's savaged to pieces by the IDF's finest--with US weapons and taxpayer financing--and its shameless support of Israeli STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM, APARTHEID, RACISM, BIGOTRY, EXTRA-JUDICIAL EXECUTIONS ( i. e. murder ) and even HUMAN BONDAGE! :(

So you see "pals" ( Elbaz & Eli Z ) you can say what you will--and wish what you want, and critisize TheAZCowBoy, ( if you dare ), and others, but indeed, "your" Israel--like the exotic frogs in the Costa Rican jungle - disappearing because of the deterioation of the ozone barrier over the Antartic, are about to "Pfffft," :) disappear!

Not in a day - or a week - but in our ( your ) lifetime! :(

So take a deep drag off your :m: and get ready to bend over and kiss your arses goodbye! :D

Israel will be "off the map," it's not a matter of "if," but a question of "when." Yes, this thought pains this ex-Israel friend and ally, but indeed, Israel's intransigence and the US taxpayers dollars being used to fund LIKUDNIK/ZioNazi terrorism cannot continue unabated--for as the Beattles song said: "All things ( Good & Bad ) must end." :p

Nature has a way of balancing itself--take for example the Ebola virus, HIV out breaks and the endless famines, floods and earthquakes--you didn't think they were a "natural" phenomena, ( or did you folks? ). No, the world is a living organism and it "violently throws itself into balance," every now and then, as we see it happening at every point on the compass on cable news on a regular basis.

The existence of the apartheid state of Israel is not a "natural state," the scriptures ( translated from the Greek by a bunch of "slick" Hebrew interpreters ) that decided to make these HOLY SCRIPTURES serve the Jews single-minded purpose of domination--to the chagrin of the Greeks--indeed, has been the biggest joke ever played on humanity--FOOLS!

Israel will continue to be a mini - super power in the Middle East, ( like a hemmoroid in the anus of a predator US Hyena ) but "only" :eek: so long as it feeds out of the US taxpayers welfare/warfare trough. With American's continuing to see the brutality and harshness of the basically Godless ZioNazi Jews against the downtrodden Palestinians ( reminds one of the European interlopers rape of the entire America's, huh folks? ), they are becoming educated--despite the Jewish "occupied" ( thanks, Pat Buchanan ) US Congress with its many "hotwired" and ah - so loyal, AIPAC/ZOA harlots and poster boys--like our own Senators John McCain-R & Jon Kyle-R, two of the more heavily "bribed" AIPAC harlots here in Arizona.

Saddams desire to "Nuke" the Zionist state is no vice! It is a thought that prevails throughout the entire Middle East region--and with Pakistan's "Islamic nukes," sitting there in a country where the "freely elected" ( vomit ) US installed president has to depend on a contingent of US green berets--to remain in power--yes, you guessed it--the time for a nuke to travel from Pakistan to Iran, Syria--or "even" Egypt--is shorter than the prez DIM BULB administration CHICKEN HAWKS would care to admit. ( If not, why the existing US contingency plans to sieze Pakistan's nukes if dictator Masharraff falls ), another event coming to a CNN camera and cable news outlet near you in the very near future - choke! :D

TheAZCowBoy, "Deep thoughts for deep thinkers!"

THIMK! :p

Originally posted by Elbaz
If Israel ever needed me to fight, I'd be there in a heartbeat. :)

TAC responds: You voice the sentiments of many Serbs in America and the world, Herr Elbaz. That they would personally take up arms to release the mass murderer, "Slob" Milosevic and would thereafter "sic" him and his army/police corp thugs on the Kosovars--in a heartbeat!

I guess you're more of a Talmud Jew--than a Torah Jew, da?

The Talmud is soooooooooooooo racist: :eek:

The Goyim and their progeny are animal's.

It's OK to steal from the Goys.

if a Goy has sex with a Jewess--he must die!

If a Jew has sex with a Goy--this is OK.

If a Jew wants to steal--he must "slither" away among the Goyim.

And it goes on and on and on and on!

TheAZCowBoy, "well read and well bred--informed too!" :p

Israel will be "off the map," it's not a matter of "if," but a question of "when."

Actually I agree, I'm pessimistic concerning Israel's long term future.
But we will go down in a display of fireworks that the world had never seen and will never want to see again.

you don't see an army on you boarder and let them into your country without striking first. So isreal was defending itself through defensive preemption. Its a mess. It is like the books of moses all over again. Isreal will have to deal with its emenies through military force. This time tthey gott the US backing them up. I think the US should become nuetral on the issue.

Athiest zionist? What the heck is that?

I am neither athiest, or Talmudic. I believe in the Torah and I also believe in numerous interpretation of it. I am not racist or anti-Arab. As a sephardic Jew I am what you might consider an Arab.

It's my belief that Israel has a right to defend itself, instead of just sit back and sink into the ocean as so many want. Israel has never initiated a conflict in the middle east. It has always been the neighbors, ahem: conveniently. The anti-semetic ultra-orthodox muslims who believe that there won't be peace on earth until everybody is Muslim. It doesn't matter what an ex-army reserve thinks of my zionist beliefs.

It's your stereo-type that Jew's believe themselves to be racially superior, that is the racist ideology. I don't believe this. Neither do the majority of my Israeli brethren. As an uninformed goy, I'm not surprised that you've misinterpreted the Jewish belief of my people being the 'chosen ones'. So many people do. I recommend you research this topic more, and try to educate yourself about Judaism.

Being an "an ex-Israeli fanatic and ex-US, fighter pilot that trained IAF pilots for two years" does not mean you're "well informed" about the situation. Calling Israel an "apartheid" state or equating zionists to Nazi's does not show a balanced viewpoint either. Ask Gil-W. Co existance is a thing of reality in Israel. Non-Jews have equal rights. It's when you travel outside that things start to change.


You've went on to assume two things:
1) I am a righty.
2) I am a Israel fanatic.
> I am an ecumenist, in that I don't believe in "right and left".

My comment still stands. I would fight for Israel if they needed me.

I salute you, Elbaz! :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elbaz
[B]Athiest zionist? What the heck is that?

I am neither athiest, or Talmudic. I believe in the Torah and I also believe in numerous interpretation of it. I am not racist or anti-Arab. As a sephardic Jew I am what you might consider an Arab.

TAC responds: Indeed, you Sephardic Jews are Arabic. This is why I don't understand why they are so blood thirsty after immigrating to Israel, on the other hand, maybe they will serve a purpose as "potential" suicide bombers--on behalf of Zionist Israel someday!

"It's my belief that Israel has a right to defend itself, instead of just sit back and sink into the ocean as so many want."

TAC: Hahahaha, as I said on another post, "Trespassers do not have the privilege of declaring "SELF DEFENSE anymore than a burglar can shoot you in your home in SELF DEFENSE! On the other hand, here in the wild west, trespassers, claims jumpers and cattle/horse rustlers, were routinely hanged from the nearst oak tree in the old days and no one bothered with a trial. Ever visit Tombstone here in Arizona? The "Town too tough to die?" Next time you do, stop by BOOT HILL cemetary and you'll understand me better! :D

Israel has never initiated a conflict in the middle east. It has always been the neighbors, ahem: conveniently. The anti-semitic ultra-orthodox muslims ( are these like the Anti-Arab ultra-orthodox Jewish zealots? :) ) who believe that there won't be peace on earth until everybody is Muslim. It doesn't matter what an ex-army reserve thinks of my Zionist beliefs.

TAC: Better check out the book "6-Day War," by Moshe Dayan. It explains Israel's attack on Egypt and Syria--because it "felt" that the Arabs were about to attack them. :) So much for your Zionist theories, huh?

It's your stereo-type that Jew's believe themselves to be racially superior, that is the racist ideology. I don't believe this. Neither do the majority of my Israeli brethren.

TAC: better read over the notes of the speech read by the AIPAC convention Jews and US Congressional harlots and poster boys last January in Washington DC., you'd understand me better. My, Senator John McCain-R AZ. gave a most elequent speech about "victim" Israel and "terrorist" Palestine, and guess what? At a reelectin fund raiser in Phoenix, AZ. in February the "hotwired" AIPAC harlot raised more than a million dollar$ in 1.5 hours mostly from his Jewish AIPAC friends! :(

As an uninformed goy, I'm not surprised that you've misinterpreted the Jewish belief of my people being the 'chosen ones'. So many people do. I recommend you research this topic more, and try to educate yourself about Judaism.

TAC: Been there---done that! But it's you Jews that perpetuate this "myth" every time the subject of the "promised land," comes up. As far as I am concerned the following Psalm tells us much about "How God will deal with the atheist Zionists--and it ain't no 40 years wandering in the desert-OK? :)

Psalm 145:20

"Jehovah is guarding them that love him--but the evil ones he will annihilate!"

Yes, I know, the Talmud explains how "Hell" is a Goyim problem--apparently Jews can't go to hell according to the Talmudic Jews--even the ZioNazi mass murderers, like Arik Sharon's expect to take their bloody Pol Plot "certificates of merit" with them when they get to "heaven!" ( vomit ).

BTW: Sharon is indeed an atheist--the Yamaulka he wear's on TV is for the US/world audience--i. e. a PROP! ( makes you wonder why the atheist thug went to TEMPLE MOUNT, September of 2000 with 1,500 "armed-to-the-gills" IDF thugs---to pray? REALLY?!

Being an "an ex-Israeli fanatic and ex-US, fighter pilot that trained IAF pilots for two years" does not mean you're "well informed" about the situation. Calling Israel an "apartheid" state or equating Zionists to Nazi's does not show a balanced viewpoint either. :p

TAC: Sorry about not being "balanced" regarding Israel's ZioNazi APARTHEINIK SYSTEM. But don't those racist "Jewish-Only" by-pass roads still being built on even more confiscated Palestinian land ( where over 250,000 ancient Palestinian olive trees have been uprooted and destroyed by IDF bull dozers since the initiation of the new Intifada and over a million additional dunums of Palestinian turf that has been stolen by Israel to create "buffer" zones of up to 1 kilometer on either side of these racist "by-pass" roads constitute "more-of-the-same," i. e. the theft of over 15% the remaining 23% of the original British Balfour Declaration land that was originally designated for the creation of "both" a Palestinian and Jewish state bother you? ) and adjoining many of Israel's "Illegal" settlements certainly tells you something about APARTHEIDNIK Israel---wouldn't you say, da?

Ask Gil-W. Co existance is a thing of reality in Israel. Non-Jews have equal rights.

TAC: Hahahaha :) Tell that to the 17 Israeli-Palestinian's that were murdered on September, 15, 2000 by the IDF thugs for marching in protest of Israeli soldiers murdering their brothers in the territories--and the Kenesset Arab member that had his house burned to the ground by Zionist rabble rousers ( as IDF soldiers looked on without raising a hand, that same night! ) So much for "equal rights" in a democracy ( small "d" ) with no written CONSTITUION, no BILL OF RIGHTS and of-course, no defined BORDERS! CLOWN! :D

It's when you travel outside that things start to change.

TAC: Hum, I guess you're speaking about Zionist Jews that no longer travel to Europe on business or pleasure--lest the courts of Belguim get jurisdiction--AND LOCK THEM UP FOR WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY--as per "Slob" Milosevic's "THE HAGUE" problems. :D

You've went on to assume two things:

1) I am a righty.
2) I am a Israel fanatic.

I am an ecumenist, in that I don't believe in "right and left".

My comment still stands. I would fight for Israel if they needed me.

TAC: Hum, looks like you'd better stay here--there's enough Zionist Settler crazies pitching tents and dealing in STOLEN LAND on the West Bank and Gaza--200,000+ since the Israeli's signed the Oslo I & II accords--whatever that means! :p

TheAZCowBoy, being informed is my "bag!"

Adieu,

"Boycott Israeli products produced in the 'illegal' West Bank and Gaza settlements!"

I'm not anti-israel, but I don't think a country that unstable should be allowed such a massize stockpile of nuclear weapons, that's just asking for the destruction of earth. I say that th US should let them keep a bug army, but COMPLETELY strip them of their nukes. They have HUNDREDS of the things, far more than they need in the post coldwar era, and for such a small and precarious country. Also if Israel wants to control the west bank and gaza, take them already and make them safe and fair for everyone. You can't blame the PLO, when at the same time you invalidate them by making them a countryless gvt. And it is very childish to "lash out" with missles every time there is a bombing. Israel is like a man kicking a caged tiger in the balls every time he gets bitten, kicking him won't solve anything, either let him free, or stop kicking him so he won't bite you.

PS. Unless you want to be a traitor to all of humanity just for the sake of partisanship, get rid of the nukes before you make us all extinct.

It's willpower not guns that wins wars.

And the zionists are more than willing nowadays since they can't find anyone to stand up for them. With the excpetion of Hezbollah, wich proves that the I.T.F. are not as invincible all seem to think, no one really started a war based on a principle.

If Israel wanted to occupy the entire region it could. But that would destroy it. For that would mean result in spreading it's forces thin. And they don't posses the manpower needed.

In the end isralis amount to 5 mln, Arabs to some 200(?)mln and there is 1.5 bilion Muslims. And taking into account that the power balance shifts. No one can maintain that "israel" will be eternal.

Off course history is quite unpredictable, so it doesn't have to take very long.

The only sollution is for them zionists is to seperate themselves totally by transfering all Palestinians, even those of 1948. But that is one of the red lines of the ongoing strife. i.g. Hezbollah has already vowed to fight agaisnt that. And that is not to be taken lightely.

In fiction there is another alternative: the zionist could start accepting that the land came with the palestinians and try to make it worth living as neighbours. But that is very unlikely for they for that will be admitting that other have rights in Plaestine.

a plus tard,

Batman.

Originally posted by BloodSuckingGerbile
I salute you, Elbaz! :)

TAC replys: Well, it's not hard to understand why one "blood sucker" would support another, jajajaja :D

There is little to admire of a people--that having suffered the tragedy of the Holocaust--now practice Nazism on their cousins, the Palestinian's with US financing. :(

And of course, operate the very profitable, HOLOCAUST INDUSTRIES ( to include the US Congress which is extremely profitable to the J/rats ) all over Europe and America. It's too bad you Zionist "Cabrones" don't sell shares of stock to the Goyim, huh Bloodsucker? :)

TheAZCowBoy,

"Squeeze the juice Arafat--but better yet, get reelected with 85% of the vote in the upcoming elections and show US prez DIM BULB, the US Congressional harlots and Arik Sharon how hanging, pregnant and dimpled chad's make no difference, right Jeb?" :D

Originally posted by Pollux V
Anywho, yes, Israel could probably conquer the whole middle east if it wanted to.

TAC reminds the foggy minded: Hey, folks! Hey, hey! hey!! hey!!!, HEY!!!!! !You seem to have forgotten the facts surrounding the coming defeat of the Israeli LIKUDNIK thugs of MURDER, INC. and with that the coming disappearance of the infamous ZioNazi Israel.

The Arab's average 6.5 kids per family. The impotent Jews ( sometimes attributed to their excessive use of PROZAC ( for obvious reasons, huh? ), the myopic Orthodox Rabbis' shaky hands, rusty unsterilized razor blades and poor vision ) average .7 kids per family.

So, by 2050 there will be wall-to-wall Arabs in the Middle East and grease stains on the linoleum floor will show where the ZioNazi Jews once stood! :D

Any questions? :p

TheAZCowBoy,

One pecularity I notice about you, AZ, is that you end almost all of your paragraphs with smilies. Why? It seems immature and foolish to use as many as you do. It doesn't even help your dead sea case one bit. Another disturbing thing you do, is rip out parts of my posts (in addition to those of other boardies) and respond with sarcastic and immature quips.

I'll tell you what I think, AZ. To me, it's all a show of brovado. You can pretend to a tough know it all over the internet, but people will eventually find you out. Let me give you an example:

I said: "I am neither athiest, or Talmudic. I believe in the Torah and I also believe in numerous interpretation of it. I am not racist or anti-Arab. As a sephardic Jew I am what you might consider an Arab. "

TAC responds: Indeed, you Sephardic Jews are Arabic. This is why I don't understand why they are so blood thirsty after immigrating to Israel, on the other hand, maybe they will serve a purpose as "potential" suicide bombers--on behalf of Zionist Israel someday!


How can you rationally say that sephards migrating to Israel automatically become blood-thirsty? And what relevance does you're little quip have to the topic?

I said: "It's my belief that Israel has a right to defend itself, instead of just sit back and sink into the ocean as so many want."

TAC responds: TAC: Hahahaha, as I said on another post, "Trespassers do not have the privilege of declaring "SELF DEFENSE anymore than a burglar can shoot you in your home in SELF DEFENSE! On the other hand, here in the wild west, trespassers, claims jumpers and cattle/horse rustlers, were routinely hanged from the nearst oak tree in the old days and no one bothered with a trial. Ever visit Tombstone here in Arizona? The "Town too tough to die?" Next time you do, stop by BOOT HILL cemetary and you'll understand me better!

Two things bother me about this one.
1) You jump to the conclusion that Israeli's are "trespassers".
2) You compare Israeli's to turn of the century criminals.
Again, what relevance does this have to the topic? You haven't backed up your claim with anything either. Israeli's are not "cowboy hustlers" and they aren't tresspassing anymore than Muslims creating private Muslim schools in Canada. It's entrenched in the UN constitution (as a universal right) that you can live anywhere you please. This applies to multi-culti countries such as Canada, and the middle-east nations alike. Saying Jews should not be allowed to live in that part of the world is racist.

>> These are just two examples. From my observations, most of your posts are the exact same thing x 10.

TAC: Better check out the book "6-Day War," by Moshe Dayan. It explains Israel's attack on Egypt and Syria--because it "felt" that the Arabs were about to attack them. So much for your Zionist theories, huh?
Do you believe every book you read? You'd better read up on encyclopedic facts. Israels neighbors were planning on attacking, and were actually quite open about it. Most of the arab populous was encouraging a fullscale attack because they 'thought' they were powerful enough. Believe me, Israel was on the brink during that war. Doesn't matter how fast they won it. A longer war might have meant the end for Israel. I'll look up some web-pages if you want.

Even the Torah clearly says that if someone is coming to kill you, you can kill them first. Allowing someone to come up to you with a knife, 20 miles an hour and doing nothing is the sin. The sin of stupidity .

TAC: better read over the notes of the speech read by the AIPAC convention Jews and US Congressional harlots and poster boys last January in Washington DC., you'd understand me better. My, Senator John McCain-R AZ. gave a most elequent speech about "victim" Israel and "terrorist" Palestine, and guess what? At a reelectin fund raiser in Phoenix, AZ. in February the "hotwired" AIPAC harlot raised more than a million dollars in 1.5 hours mostly from his Jewish AIPAC friends!

How does this have anything to do with your assumption that Jews think themselve to racially superior? 'Palestine' is essentially a terrorist organization. Look at all the propoganda spread by PA autonomous media. Look at how the PA has provided money and weapons to terrorist organizations. How they've repeatedly failed to suppress terrorist cells when the opportunity arose! There's no excuse for that. For pities' sake, Arafats wife was quoted as saying that she'd want her son to be a suicide bomber if she ever had one! To me, this is no better than the Taliban providing shelter to convicted Al Quaida terrorists.

And by the way, there's no such thing as 'Palestine' right now. It's only a future goal that we probably wont live to see.

"Jehovah is guarding them that love him--but the evil ones he will annihilate!"

Umm...I hate to break it to you, but you're reading the new testament. Jewish people don't believe in Jehovah. Why don't you find an english version of the Torah, quote something in it out of context, and use that to incriminate the actions of a Jewish nation.

Yes, I know, the Talmud explains how "Hell" is a Goyim problem--apparently Jews can't go to hell according to the Talmudic Jews--even the ZioNazi mass murderers, like Arik Sharon's expect to take their bloody Pol Plot "certificates of merit" with them when they get to "heaven!" ( vomit ).

Jewish people don't believe in hell. 'Nuff said. Like I stateted earlier, you're under-educated about the Jewish religion. If you want to go criticizing us, at least know what you're talking about.
Otherwise, you make yourself look like a wart.

BTW: Sharon is indeed an atheist--the Yamaulka he wear's on TV is for the US/world audience--i. e. a PROP! ( makes you wonder why the atheist thug went to TEMPLE MOUNT, September of 2000 with 1,500 "armed-to-the-gills" IDF thugs---to pray? REALLY?!

Really? I find that hard to believe. With a name like "Ariel Sharon", clearly Hebrew with Jewish roots. Link please. Then I will dispute the rest of what you said.

TAC: Sorry about not being "balanced" regarding Israel's ZioNazi APARTHEIDIC SYSTEM. But don't those racist "Jewish-Only" by-pass roads still being built on even more confiscated Palestinian land ( where over 250,000 ancient Palestinian olive trees have been uprooted and destroyed by IDF bull dozers since the initiation of the new Intifada and over a million additional dunums of Palestinian turf that has been stolen by Israel to create "buffer" zones of up to 1 kilometer on either side of these racist "by-pass" roads constitute "more-of-the-same," i. e. the theft of over 15% the remaining 23% of the original British Balfour Declaration land that was originally designated for the creation of "both" a Palestinian and Jewish state bother you? ) and adjoining many of Israel's "Illegal" settlements certainly tells you something about APARTHEIDNIK Israel---wouldn't you say, da?

Again, where do you get off calling Israel a "zioNazi Apartheidic system'? Non-Jew's have equal voting and civil rights to that of Jewish people in Israel. And what "Jewish-only" by-pass roads are you talking about? Link?

And how are trees more important than habitat for humanity? Is it the fact that they are on once Palestinian inhabited land? If your real problem is trees, then you'll be happy to hear that I, along with countless Israeli brethren have paid good money to see trees planted in the state of Israel. And I'm not sure about the exact figure, but Israel has set aside a massive percentage of it's ladmass as protected Parkland. That's way more than any other middle-eastern country has done.

The truth is that Israel is securing precious resources and strategic land to buffer :itself:. That's no worse than what ANY other country in it's position would do. IE - The Russians trying to secure their parcel on the baltic(?) sea, the Brittish worrying about Islands in the medd. etc. Name a country that hasn't acted in it's best interests.

One more thing I'd like to know is where you got the idea that I'm somehow against a Palestinian state? This is quite the opposite of what I've said in the past. I pray that one day there will be one so that we can all whine and bicker about something else.

TAC: Hahahaha Tell that to the 17 Israeli-Palestinian's that were murdered on September, 15, 2000 by the IDF thugs for marching in protest of Israeli soldiers murdering their brothers in the territories--and the Kenesset Arab member that had his house burned to the ground by Zionist rabble rousers ( as IDF soldiers looked on without raising a hand, that same night! ) So much for "equal rights" in a democracy ( small "d" ) with no written CONSTITUION, no BILL OF RIGHTS and of-course, no defined BORDERS! CLOWN!

Maybe you haven't noticed, but most countries dont have a fully written constitution, or bill of rights. In Canada, we did without those until 1981! Instead, we followed laws, and internationally specified bill of rights. There are still unwritten parts to our own, here in Canada.

In Israel, it's no different. LAWS are something that everybody must abide to. The UN charter takes precedence everywhere there isn't a defined set, remember? As a member of the UN, Israels courts recognize the UN charters as supreme to laws and anything else. This is true for all members.

TAC: Hum, I guess you're speaking about Zionist Jews that no longer travel to Europe on business or pleasure--lest the courts of Belguim get jurisdiction--AND LOCK THEM UP FOR WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY--as per "Slob" Milosevic's "THE HAGUE" problems.

I'm talking about other parts of the middle east. There are many many places Jew's and Israeli's would be star-crossed to enter. You're almost guaranteed to get beat up or killed if you walk the streets of Beirut. Do you agree or disagree?

TAC: Hum, looks like you'd better stay here--there's enough Zionist Settler crazies pitching tents and dealing in STOLEN LAND on the West Bank and Gaza--200,000+ since the Israeli's signed the Oslo I & II accords--whatever that means!

Again, the land is not stolen. ANYBODY can live there. It's under jurisdiction of Israel. And saying otherwise is about as valid as claiming that the Brits "stole" North America, or that the Chinese stole a quarter of Downtown. I don't buy it.

No less, Oslo is a facade. There are many bias and unfair parts to it. This goes without saying that Israel was pressured into signing the damn thing with a gun to it's head. I say 'throw it to the dogs!'

"Boycott Israeli products produced in the 'illegal' West Bank and Gaza settlements!"

Err.... sorry, friend. Every time you touch a computer or GM vegetable, it's probably run the hands of an Israeli scientist. Just because it doesn't say " made in Israel " doesn't mean it hasn't been there. You probably live of their products ever day.

Bruce Wayne,
In the end isralis amount to 5 mln, Arabs to some 200(?)mln and there is 1.5 bilion Muslims. And taking into account that the power balance shifts. No one can maintain that "israel" will be eternal.

Firstly, learn to Capitalize.
Secondly, no political entity has ever been 'eternal'. The question is when will Israel dissolve? For that, my guess is as good as yours. But I'd expect it to survive as long as the present day system does. After that, everything will change.

The only sollution is for them zionists is to seperate themselves totally by transfering all Palestinians, even those of 1948. But that is one of the red lines of the ongoing strife. i.g. Hezbollah has already vowed to fight agaisnt that. And that is not to be taken lightely.

Do you mean that Israel should allow the three million refugees inside?? Care to explain how such a thing would work out?

And why should Israel take a terrorist group seriously? I mean, come on - how weak is that? If they act up, my answer is to blow the shit out of the terrorists or imprison them all before they get a chance to do damage.

In fiction there is another alternative: the zionist could start accepting that the land came with the palestinians and try to make it worth living as neighbours. But that is very unlikely for they for that will be admitting that other have rights in Plaestine.

I think Israel has always accepted the *existance* of Palestinians. And just as they've tried to live alongside all of their other neighbors, they've tried to do so with the Palestinians. The only problem is that they're asking so much as to negate the legitamicy of Israel as a state. I mean, look at the demands!! The puppeteer terrorist groups want Israel to dissolve itself and have all the Jews flee into the ocean. That's even a common motto.

BlankC, [B]
I'm not anti-israel, but I don't think a country that unstable should be allowed such a massize stockpile of nuclear weapons, that's just asking for the destruction of earth. I say that th US should let them keep a bug army, but COMPLETELY strip them of their nukes. They have HUNDREDS of the things, far more than they need in the post coldwar era, and for such a small and precarious country. Also if Israel wants to control the west bank and gaza, take them already and make them safe and fair for everyone. You can't blame the PLO, when at the same time you invalidate them by making them a countryless gvt. And it is very childish to "lash out" with missles every time there is a bombing. Israel is like a man kicking a caged tiger in the balls every time he gets bitten, kicking him won't solve anything, either let him free, or stop kicking him so he won't bite you.

PS. Unless you want to be a traitor to all of humanity just for the sake of partisanship, get rid of the nukes before you make us all extinct.

I don't think any nation should have nuclear weapons, let alone any weapons at all (since a weapon is fundamentally designed to kill people). It's really only a matter of time before they are used. I'd murder a thousand babies to have every nation agree to a nuclear termination program. But that wont happen, because some nations have plans to use these weapons..And right now, Israel is not a threat in the nuclear department because they simply will not use the weapons until something drastic happens. Worry about N. Korea, Pakistan, etc. etc..

What I disagree with is how you compare the Palestinians to a caged tiger. They have the support of Muslims worldwide, as well as most European and Asian nations. The amount of aide is no less sickening, considering how much of it is spent on bullets. I've said it before and will say it again: If the Palestinians had devoted the money they had to education and healthcare (like the Israeli's did), instead of hate and violence, they'd be just as rich as their neighbors.>> What I can't say, is that I'm a friend of humanity. Most of the time 'humanity' makes me puke.

[B]AZ,
Being an "an ex-Israeli fanatic and ex-US, fighter pilot that trained IAF pilots for two years" does not mean you're "well informed" about the situation. Calling Israel an "apartheid" state or equating Zionists to Nazi's does not show a balanced viewpoint either. :p

I did not put that smilie there in my original post. Do me two favours:
1) Quote me properly
2) Use the quoting HTML to make you posts more readable.
>It would be appreciated.




-Elbaz

The Arab's average 6.5 kids per family. The impotent Jews ( sometimes attributed to their excess use of PROZAC, the myopic Rabbis shaky hands, rusty unsterilized razor blades and poor vision ) average .7 kids per family.

You have your social science backward. For one, Israeli's don't have to rely on the birth rate at home since immigration is already heavy.

Another fallacy is that more arabs = more success. This is just wrong. Birth rate has an inverse relationship to wealth. Less wealth = higher birth rate because more children are necessary. As the economy of arab nations improves, their birth rate will go down.

Though this isn't always the case. My uncle (former resident of Israel) was just one of the many Israeli's to have 10 or more kids. He currently has 11, I believe. Not that impotent for a Rabbi, wouldn't you say? All of my other Israeli relatives are also quite fruitful too. I wouldn't worry too much about Israel at present. They're smart - they can defend themselves.

Elbaz: Why do you favor Israelis and Jew's above others? There are no differences between us except those that we create ourselves. Having religious beliefs is fine, but dividing yourself from others because of it is not proper. I'm not picking on you, I think that christians, muslims, asians, europeans and everyone is wrong to divide themsleves. How can you say you have more or less right to land than anyone else? The earth belongs to no one. Why do you hate? Are you so easily decieved by those that would take advantage of you? Abandon your serparations and become a citizen of humanity, not a seperate and divided group. Haven't we learned the mistakes of Hitler and the Nazi's that divisions only lead to the suffering of us all. Protest the need for borders and seperate govenments. Protest the seperation of groups of humans. Do not think in the flawed pathways of seperation, once you see the truth you will be a better person.

I don't favour anyone. Where'd you get an idea like that? I'm actually a Canadian citizen. I don't believe that "I have more or less right to land than anyone else" or that the "earth belongs to someone". I don't hate either, and I'm not decieved by anything but reality.

Citizen of humanity? I'm one of the people who believes in the eventual implementation of world government. I've already made myself quite clear in saying that everyone should have equal rights, and I'm an avid believer in social welfare. Where do you think I've gone wrong?


Most countries in the world have a dominant religion. Telling me that a Jewish state should not exist is just as valid as telling that a communist/democratic one does not have a right to exist either. Israel is a community of people who believe mostly in the same thing, and who want to live a way of life that cannot be attained in normal or other society. Heck, on Yom Kippur, you rarely see any cars in Israel. Down in Calgary, it's a busy day as usual. In Israel, you'd be hard press'd not to keep Kashrut. Here, it's a thing of challenge. See what I'm getting at. It's about community. Israel is not a racist state. It's not a genocidist haven or colony of yahoos. In Israel, you can live among Jews. You can live a life that's almost impossible anywhere else.

The way I see it, you can look at it two ways:
1) I'm seperating myself from a society.
2) I'm identifying my beliefs and joining one that suits me.


People live in the society they do because they want to, or because they can't leave it for whatever reason. Living where you can live best is not a crime. It's a mitzvah. As a Jew, I say at the cedar table every year, "next year in Jerusalem!" And I'd like that. How am I wrong for believing what I do? Isn't saying that someones beliefs are wrong or right, a sin to conveniently paraphrase you. --(How can you say you have more or less right to land than anyone else?)

-I await your response. This is a fun debate. ;)


Moderator edit - no need to quote the previous post

Originally posted by Elbaz
You have your social science backward. For one, Israeli's don't have to rely on the birth rate at home since immigration is already heavy.

Though this isn't always the case. My uncle (former resident of Israel) was just one of the few Israeli's to have 10 or more kids. He currently has 11, I believe. All of my other Israeli relatives are also quite fruitful too. I wouldn't worry too much about Israel at present. They're smart - they can defend themselves.

TAC responds: Hum, the "Computer ink" is fly'n tonite, huh Elbaz?

GREAT!

So can we get started, da?

How 'bout starting with Jewish immigration--Please!

More than 75% of the, ( I call them ) "semi-Kosher" Jews immigrating into Israel from the CIS countries "are not even Jews!" I remember the tragic bombing at the Pasha dico in Tel Aviv almost 3 years ago ( all the dead were mostly non-Kosher Russian immigrant teenagers ). The dead were not even allowed to be buried in Jewish cemetaries "because they weren't Jewish!" They were buried--after a big battle by their parents with Israeli authorities--in paupers cemetaries! Recently, Israel has been proselyting Peruvian indians(!) and bringing them into Israel. ( We can discuss the Ethiopian "falasha's" ( the Jewish "N" word ) that the ultra's reject as Jews and make their live's a living hell while living in Israel ).

Also, a majority of these so-called Russian "Jews" that arrive into Israel are given special stipends for the "privilidge" of moving into the "illegal" settlements on the West Bank and Gaza ( I call them cannon fodder ). A majority of the teens, some as young as 17 years old, are immediately drafted into the IDF and sent to serve in the territories. ( Why? Because more and more Jewish boys--and combat experienced reservists--are refusing to serve in the territories these days and they ride a revolvng door of 30-60-90 day sentences in IDF military prisons until the IDF--besides itself--sends them home ).

So much for Jewish immigration, huh Elbaz?

Elbaz: "Jews can defend themselves?"

And how! With US supplied F-16's, dropping 2,000 lb. bombs into crowded Gazian apartment buildings---killing 10 women and children to get to one "suspected" terrorist! ( 11-2002 ) Firing the horrendous Hellfire/TOW missiles at a car full of family members and murdering children as young as 2 years old! ( in one case an infants head was found 100 meters from where the Israeli Apache helicopter's missile hit!

Firing the horrible US supplied brutal "Flechette" antipersonnel 120 mm cannon shell from their Merkava tanks, at basically unarmed Palestinian civilians. Note: This shell, upon impact releases thousands of 6" steel darts--over an area of a US football field-- that leaves torn and bloodied Palestinian tissue, crushed bone and burnt matted burnt hair where a group of Palestinian women and children once stood with a rock or two in their hands.

Firing .50 caliber heavy US supplied heavy machineguns from tank turrents at rock throwing children that have no hope of taking out an Israeli Merkava tank with 6" steel plated defenses and reactive armour with a 10 oz. stone.

"Oh yes, Jews can defend themselves!"

( But against Hizbollah in Lebanon--they ran like scared rats, July 2000, when Israel finally left Lebanon after a 20+ year occupation with tacit US approval ).

But of-course, when a young desperate Palestinian teenager who has seen his older brother brutalized or shot in the thorax and murdered with a dum-dum bullit by the IDF because he was out on the street at curfew time, had his home demolished by the IDF thugs, his father murdered dfending his family and his honor, his mother toothless from a beating from an IDF'ers trencheon, and his life disrupted by the IDF thugs saunters into an Ybarro pizza parlor filled with hate against the trespasser Jews, with a back pack full with 9 kilos of dynamite, 2 kilos of penney nails and a pinch of rat poison ( how appropriate, huh Elbaz? )--he is a "terrorist?!"

"Oh yes, the Palestinian's can defend themselves!"

Of course, 2 weeks ago when the Paly's took out a Merkava tank with an Iranian "United Way" donated anti-tank mine and killed the 4 baby faced killers inside--the IDF went on a rampage at Jenin and Rufah and proceeded to murder 71 Palestinian men, women and children with unusual brutality. The IDF followed up with their famous Jewish revenge, "An eye for an eye-- tooth for a tooth," at Jenin and Rufah, with the "justifyable" vengenace used only when a Jew is seeking revenge, right Elbaz?

So you see Elbaz, the Palestinian's who have been savaged by your Jewish relatives in Israel ( many from the Jewish capital here in the US---Brooklyn! ) for 37 years now, can fight "just as dirty" as the dirty IDF killers. But of-course, the murder of Palestinian's--as reported, here in the US Jewish controlled media ( and especially the fascists at FOX JEWS NETWORK ) always call it JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE--even if the dead child is 3 years old--"He was about to throw a bomb at our soldiers" ( Vomit ) the IDF spokemen for the IDF reports. BS!!!!!!

See, no smilies tonight--just want you to know that when I am so hurt at seeing more and more dead Palestinian civilians in the hands of the killers of Israel--I will not smile anymore.

TheAZCowBoy,

PS: Coming soon--The IDF/SLA Khiam torture prison in the old IDF south Lebanese "security zone" and the Lebanese and Palestinian boys that left their blood ( and hide ) on the torture tables of that Jewish hell while seving as "bargaining chips" for captured IDF/IAF soldiers. Type in: "Israeli Khaim Torture prison" on the MSN/AOL URL field--and gasp! ).

PPS: Coming later: The leading nation in CIS girl "white Slavery," ( Israel! ) and how the Rabbi's of Israel import, intimidate, trade, barter and sell these innocent women like so much chattel--lured into Israel with promises of great jobs and rosy futures to end up as prostitutes, bar girls and often dead!

PPS: Still later: The Israeli export of Ecstasy: From Tel Aviv to NYC to Amsterdam--the Jews make BIG BUCKS--and tear lives apart in the name of the "golden Calf" ( money, of-course! ).

Oh Hell, why not! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D!

So, anyway..this would be an advanced training exercise for Israel if they wished to advance.

WHY are your brains filled with the thought of war, ok there is one on the horizon but why do you feel the need to compare military might and make out that the whole world needs to be at war just because we have a small one about to start?

isreal are not interested with war except against the palestines, why should they be?
to be honest i cant see the point of this thread, and cant see where the interest is arising from, either you guys are thirsty for war or just plainly confused about the current situations!


dont bitch!

Originally posted by TheAZCowBoy
TAC replys: Well, it's not hard to understand why one "blood sucker" would support another, jajajaja :D

There is little to admire of a people--that having suffered the tragedy of the Holocaust--now practice Nazism on their cousins, the Palestinian's with US financing. :(

And of course, operate the very profitable, HOLOCAUST INDUSTRIES ( to include the US Congress which is extremely profitable to the J/rats ) all over Europe and America. It's too bad you Zionist "Cabrones" don't sell shares of stock to the Goyim, huh Bloodsucker? :)


"People". You're saying that each and every one of the citizens of Israel is a war criminal? Frankly, most of the people just want to work, eat, sleep, go to places, have normal lives. We don't need war. Very few people want to serve in the Israeli army. Me too. If I had a choice, I wouldn't go to the army.
Why do you keep saying "goyim"? You want to emphasize Jewish hatred to the other races/religions/whatever? It looks like you haven't been serving enough in Israel. This word is used mainly by orthodox Jews, not my favourite at all. I think that seperating Jews from other cultures and calling those cultures "goys" is totally stupid and it leads to racism. The orthodox Jews are entirely seperated from the secular Jews in Israel and I, as a secular Jew, have an opposing ideology to the one of the orthodox Jews. I should also remind you that they are a minority in Israel, though a big one, but a minority. So don't say that Jews love only themselves.

What's with the last paragraph? Do you happen to have a swastika tatoo on your arm? Now you're saying that Jews in America and Europe are rats? You're a bit off topic. we're talking about ISRAEL. US Jews are US citizens and the US congress is as profitable to them as it is to you (assuming that you are a citizen of the US).
It's people like you who lead to holocausts because of Jews being "rats" and then call them "rats" again.

Originally posted by eddie monkey
Here is a map to help everyone out.
http://www.aaiusa.org/images/middleeast.jpg
It's pretty crude in respect to the Israeli region, but it was the first postable one I found and I'm lazy.

Anyone else worried about the fact that once in Afghanistan and Iraq they just happen to have Iran surrounded.....

Worried? :)

I hope Saddam fires a few Hail Mary’s at Israel during the invasion and plunges the whole Middle East into war. That would make things interesting.

I guess you have no objections to anything I said in the previous post, AZ? Alright, let's move on.

More than 75% of the, ( I call them ) "semi-Kosher" Jews immigrating into Israel from the CIS countries "are not even Jews!" I remember the tragic bombing at the Pasha dico in Tel Aviv almost 3 years ago ( all the dead were mostly non-Kosher Russian immigrant teenagers ). The dead were not even allowed to be buried in Jewish cemetaries "because they weren't Jewish!" They were buried--after a big battle by their parents with Israeli authorities--in paupers cemetaries! Recently, Israel has been proselyting Peruvian indians(!) and bringing them into Israel. ( We can discuss the Ethiopian "falasha's" ( the Jewish "N" word ) that the ultra's reject as Jews and make their live's a living hell while living in Israel ).

Also, a majority of these so-called Russian "Jews" that arrive into Israel are given special stipends for the "privilidge" of moving into the "illegal" settlements on the West Bank and Gaza ( I call them cannon fodder ). A majority of the teens, some as young as 17 years old, are immediately drafted into the IDF and sent to serve in the territories. ( Why? Because more and more Jewish boys--and combat experienced reservists--are refusing to serve in the territories these days and they ride a revolvng door of 30-60-90 day sentences in IDF military prisons until the IDF--besides itself--sends them home ).


For starters, how does a person degree of orthodoxy have anything to do with the value of their deaths? Are you suggesting that the fact that they were "goyim" diminishes there lives as Israeli's? That's sick! In order to get into Israel as a 'Jewish' Immigrant, you have to have at least one Jewish grandparent. In many cases this in the hopes that the immigrants will eventually return to their losts roots and regain their Jewish identity. This still does not excuse your ignorance.

" proselyting Peruvian indians" -Link please. You exaggerate by making it sound like Israel is commiting a crime by accepting a few willing Peruvians into it's army. How many? What were the given reasons? You *assumed* this was to compensate for other soldiers. Be you right or wrong, I dont see the relevance to this topic, let alone tangent unless your trying to throw rotten tomatoes at me to speed your argument.--However unscientific.

>By the way - If you're going to put quotations around a word, please spell it right. It's spelled "privilege" not "privilidge". Those kind of sp. errors make you look very foolish<

-Whats wrong with drafting graduates? After high school, its mandatory for both men and women to serve in the IDF. Usually for three years. So what's the problem? Some are as young as 17 because they either drop out, or graduate by that age. The difference between 17 and 18 is superficial.

On this, I'd like to comment one last thing. You claim that Israeli's are racist against Ethiopian Jews. Who? Why? I find that the majority of the discriminating - however few in my experience - are ultra orthodox fanatics. So AZ, don't you think we're stereotyping the Jewish population again? First you call them rats, then Zio-Nazi's, among other things. It almost seems as though you're a third reich wannabe. A tragedy if anything. If there's just one question I want you to answer - which you've not quite done so far - it's whether your willing to stand by these comments or take them back?

So much for Jewish immigration, huh Elbaz?
No. Only you have discussed it with yourself. Strange how you seem to think you command the virtues of good and evil, as if you were some kind of supreme 'cowboy' god.


And how! With US supplied F-16's, dropping 2,000 lb. bombs into crowded Gazian apartment buildings---killing 10 women and children to get to one "suspected" terrorist! ( 11-2002 ) Firing the horrendous Hellfire/TOW missiles at a car full of family members and murdering children as young as 2 years old! ( in one case an infants head was found 100 meters from where the Israeli Apache helicopter's missile hit!

Firing the horrible US supplied brutal "Flechette" antipersonnel 120 mm cannon shell from their Merkava tanks, at basically unarmed Palestinian civilians. Note: This shell, upon impact releases thousands of 6" steel darts--over an area of a US football field-- that leaves torn and bloodied Palestinian tissue, crushed bone and burnt matted burnt hair where a group of Palestinian women and children once stood with a rock or two in their hands.

Firing .50 caliber heavy US supplied heavy machineguns from tank turrents at rock throwing children that have no hope of taking out an Israeli Merkava tank with 6" steel plated defenses and reactive armour with a 10 oz. stone.


Umm...You keep on using my quotes out of context. And then write paragraphs on stuff I haven't even brought up. Remember *where* I said Jews can defend themselves? It was in retaliation to comments that Israelis will soon be crushed by a growing population of Arabs. How does this have anything to do with a whole new topic? I'll gladly talk about it, in it's own thread . However, you can't expect to drag me into a supreme debate about everything ever involving Israel, in a topic that originally intended to debate about military strategies. Immigration? US Aid to Israel? Slavery? The drug trade?!?! You're trying to flood me if nothing else. I'll debate it all however. Just put it in the right place. Start a threat about Israeli "murder of two year olds", and the involvement of American military supplies. There's so much I'm tempted to refute (pages) - Israeli "murderers", legitamicy of foreign aid, etc. I promise to respond to it all .

But of-course, when a young desperate Palestinian teenager who has seen his older brother brutalized or shot in the thorax and murdered with a dum-dum bullit by the IDF because he was out on the street at curfew time, had his home demolished by the IDF thugs, his father murdered dfending his family and his honor, his mother toothless from a beating from an IDF'ers trencheon, and his life disrupted by the IDF thugs saunters into an Ybarro pizza parlor filled with hate against the trespasser Jews, with a back pack full with 9 kilos of dynamite, 2 kilos of penney nails and a pinch of rat poison ( how appropriate, huh Elbaz? )--he is a "terrorist?!"

Link. I'd like to discuss specific cases, with specific references. You're personally not a source of news information.

Of course, 2 weeks ago when the Paly's took out a Merkava tank with an Iranian "United Way" donated anti-tank mine and killed the 4 baby faced killers inside--the IDF went on a rampage at Jenin and Rufah and proceeded to murder 71 Palestinian men, women and children with unusual brutality. The IDF followed up with their famous Jewish revenge, "An eye for an eye-- tooth for a tooth," at Jenin and Rufah, with the "justifyable" vengenace used only when a Jew is seeking revenge, right Elbaz?

Again, you make YOUR unjustifiable claims that Jews consider themselves to be racially superior. Do you ever plan on substantiating this with something other than racial stereotypes? Who were these people that were killed? Were they given the opportunity to surrender? Or is this just another case of slander on your behalf. I usually find that Palestinian victims of this struggle are fugutives, or jump in front of bullets not intended for them. Do you know what I mean by that?()Chances are, you'll take what I say litterally and try to use it against me()

So you see Elbaz, the Palestinian's who have been savaged by your Jewish relatives in Israel ( many from the Jewish capital here in the US---Brooklyn! ) for 37 years now, can fight "just as dirty" as the dirty IDF killers. But of-course, the murder of Palestinian's--as reported, here in the US Jewish controlled media ( and especially the fascists at FOX JEWS NETWORK ) always call it JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE--even if the dead child is 3 years old--"He was about to throw a bomb at our soldiers" ( Vomit ) the IDF spokemen for the IDF reports. BS!!!!!!

This is what I like to call "Bull shit." Again, everything you say here is completely unsubstantiated. A tad biased? You use every conceivable adjective to describe, Jews, Israeli's and the IDF with zero recognition of the fact that they're humans, too. Why the heck would a two or three year old stay near a gunfight?? Chances are they're extremist parent want their children to go to heaven, and eventually meet up with those virgins, eh? Or perhaps it's more honourable? Or maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Why do you have to automatically confuse the IDF with savages? Killing civilians without reconcilabe reason is considered a crime in the IDF, and nothing a good soldier would do. Should every member of the IDF be superhuman richeous, just because you don't agree with the cause? Never has that been the case for any other army. Injustices are always commited. I can name coutless situations of similar irony from the armies of America, China, Russia, Japan, Germany and France. It's nothing new, my friend.

PPS: Coming later: The leading nation in CIS girl "white Slavery," ( Israel! ) and how the Rabbi's of Israel import, intimidate, trade, barter and sell these innocent women like so much chattel--lured into Israel with promises of great jobs and rosy futures to end up as prostitutes, bar girls and often dead!

PPS: Still later: The Israeli export of Ecstasy: From Tel Aviv to NYC to Amsterdam--the Jews make BIG BUCKS--and tear lives apart in the name of the "golden Calf" ( money, of-course! ).

What does this have anything to do with the thread at hand? Rabbi pimps? Ecstasy exports? I've never said this to anyone, but you full of absolute crap. Err.. Nevermind; crap has substance. You're a vacuum ;)

Maveric,
isreal are not interested with war except against the palestines, why should they be?
Care to support that? Who says that Israeli's wanted a war with anyone . Israel has never started any real wars in the past. It's just not a beneficial thing. And had a war with them started one of two or so odd things would happen;

1) The world would not approve of any of it. Embargo's would occur. Israel would no longer be looked upon as a state by many countries - as now, by many many countries. Etc.
2) The Palestinians would have been obliterated.

>> Though I can't speak for the Israeli government, I can say that they have a general love for human life and prosperousness for all. War has never been a desirable thing.

:: Shakes Elbaz's hand. ::

Originally posted by Elbaz
I don't favour anyone. Where'd you get an idea like that? I'm actually a Canadian citizen. I don't believe that "I have more or less right to land than anyone else" or that the "earth belongs to someone". I don't hate either, and I'm not decieved by anything but reality.

I don't see how you can say you don't favor or hate with statements like this.
"and if Israel ever needed me to fight, I'd be there in a heartbeat."
Why fight for Isreal? Why do you favor that group with the priviledge of risking your life?


Citizen of humanity? I'm one of the people who believes in the eventual implementation of world government. I've already made myself quite clear in saying that everyone should have equal rights, and I'm an avid believer in social welfare. Where do you think I've gone wrong?

That's great that your so benevolent.



Most countries in the world have a dominant religion. Telling me that a Jewish state should not exist is just as valid as telling that a communist/democratic one does not have a right to exist either.

No countries should exist, whether they be religious based, or any other ideology. Mountains don't care whether you label them as a part of one country or another. Animal heed not invisible borders. The winds have no passports and taste of any lands they will. Why acknowledge these false distinctions.


Israel is a community of people who believe mostly in the same thing, and who want to live a way of life that cannot be attained in normal or other society. Heck, on Yom Kippur, you rarely see any cars in Israel. Down in Calgary, it's a busy day as usual. In Israel, you'd be hard press'd not to keep Kashrut. Here, it's a thing of challenge. See what I'm getting at. It's about community. Israel is not a racist state. It's not a genocidist haven or colony of yahoos. In Israel, you can live among Jews. You can live a life that's almost impossible anywhere else.


The people who currently live in the lands they wish to call Israel have the right to act however they wish if it does no harm to anyone else. And anyone else from anywhere else has the right to move in right next to them and do whatever they wish as long as it harms nobody but themsleves. Israel has strict immigration policy, and has social elements who purposefully segregate others. Israel is a segregated group whow use thier combined physical power to the benefit of those whithin the group, and at the expense of those without. You honestly believe that I could move to Tel-Aviv right now and have an equal chance of lucrative city contracts as someone who is of the current Iraeli group? Even if I had more experience and expertise, and fit the requirements better than the others there.


The way I see it, you can look at it two ways:
1) I'm seperating myself from a society.
2) I'm identifying my beliefs and joining one that suits me.


1) You are seperating yourself from the rest of humanity, not as a rule from society, as there as mutliple societies.
2) You can just as easily, and more fairly, identify with others on an individual to individual basis.


People live in the society they do because they want to, or because they can't leave it for whatever reason. Living where you can live best is not a crime. It's a mitzvah. As a Jew, I say at the cedar table every year, "next year in Jerusalem!" And I'd like that. How am I wrong for believing what I do? Isn't saying that someones beliefs are wrong or right, a sin to conveniently paraphrase you. --(How can you say you have more or less right to land than anyone else?)


That's exactly my point, live wherever you want, and let others live wherever they want. You may pratice whichever religious or cultural activities you want, and so may other (again with the clause that is effects not others negatively). How are you wrong for believing what you do? Well I never said all your beliefs are wrong, but merely disagree with any beliefs you have that are segregationist, and favoratist. When did I say anything about sin? That paraphrasing would have to be mindbogglingly convenient to find such meanings in my words. You assume much about me, do you not? Are stereotypes forming in your head already? What makes you think the concept of sin has validity with me? You'd be surprised what my religious and ethnic backgrouds are, although I do not feel compelled to share them now because they should not matter.


-I await your response. This is a fun debate. ;)


-I hope my reply does not dissapoint. :p

I don't see how you can say you don't favor or hate with statements like this.
"and if Israel ever needed me to fight, I'd be there in a heartbeat."
Why fight for Isreal? Why do you favor that group with the priviledge of risking your life?


Why do I have to hate something or somebody to say that I'd come in Israel's defence if they needed me? I believe in the zionist cause and believe that the state of Israel has a right to exist. It's not a hate relationship. It's a love one.

That's great that your so benevolent.

Well, I'm glad we agree. I'm not trying to be self-richeous, here.--Though remember, you're the one who accused me of not being an international citizen.

No countries should exist, whether they be religious based, or any other ideology. Mountains don't care whether you label them as a part of one country or another. Animal heed not invisible borders. The winds have no passports and taste of any lands they will. Why acknowledge these false distinctions.

I agree. But countries do exist. And not for the mountains, plants OR animals. But for the distribution of resources among humanity. We're simply not ready for any kind of a world government yet because resources are sooo precious right now. There simply isn't enough to go 360.

The people who currently live in the lands they wish to call Israel have the right to act however they wish if it does no harm to anyone else. And anyone else from anywhere else has the right to move in right next to them and do whatever they wish as long as it harms nobody but themsleves. Israel has strict immigration policy, and has social elements who purposefully segregate others. Israel is a segregated group whow use thier combined physical power to the benefit of those whithin the group, and at the expense of those without. You honestly believe that I could move to Tel-Aviv right now and have an equal chance of lucrative city contracts as someone who is of the current Iraeli group? Even if I had more experience and expertise, and fit the requirements better than the others there.

What do you mean? Non-Jew's in Israel have equal rights by law. The concept of Israel, though, is to have a predominantly Jewish population because it serves as a cultural and religious base for the world community of Jews. It's a refuge for persecuted Jew's. The goal of Israel is to keep the religion alive and well. Not to segregate ourselves from within. I believe that if you fly to Tel-Aviv, and try to get an equal chance as everyone else, you'd be up against a situation similar to:
-Flying to Pakistan and expecting equal opportunities - even though you aren't Muslim or brown (though you could be).
-Flying to Japan and expecting a bridge contract - even though your education probably doesn't match up.
-Going over to the local pharmacy, and expecting a job in a predominantly Christian run medicine shop. Chances are they want to hire a Christian because they can relate to eachother. After all, they have to spend the day surrounded by someone. Why not someone you share the same values with? I'm not saying segregation is a good thing is these specific contexts. All I'm saying is that this is the same everywhere you go. Singling out Israel will solve nothing. If you really did have the qualifications, I don't see why you would stand less of a chance anywhere else in the world. Agreed?

1) You are seperating yourself from the rest of humanity, not as a rule from society, as there as mutliple societies.
2) You can just as easily, and more fairly, identify with others on an individual to individual basis.


We're dealing with the concept of macro and micro here. For one, I'm not seperating myself from any society. I actually remain a member of the international one. Adhering to laws and practices that everyone can agree to. Secondly, when we're dealing with something as huge as a macro environment, where there are millions and millions of people, going about identification on an individual by individual basis is quite stupid. I seperate friends from people who share similar values to me. A friend is someone I can psychologicall relate to. They can be anyone. A society is a place I feel comfortable. Pretend that it's a forest of people. How I see it. If you're a monkey by religion, why live in a conifer forest when theres a rainforest sitting right next to it? You'd probably feel more comfortable.

By the way, how is it more fair to identify with people on an individual by individual basis?

That's exactly my point, live wherever you want, and let others live wherever they want. You may pratice whichever religious or cultural activities you want, and so may other (again with the clause that is effects not others negatively). How are you wrong for believing what you do? Well I never said all your beliefs are wrong, but merely disagree with any beliefs you have that are segregationist, and favoratist. When did I say anything about sin? That paraphrasing would have to be mindbogglingly convenient to find such meanings in my words. You assume much about me, do you not? Are stereotypes forming in your head already? What makes you think the concept of sin has validity with me? You'd be surprised what my religious and ethnic backgrouds are, although I do not feel compelled to share them now because they should not matter.

I am not a segregationist or a favouritist. Read my forest analogy. It's a matter of comfort. I'm not about to sit on a bed of nails to please my circus friends. I like to live in a society that shares the same theistic beliefs as me. Not just rudimentary political ones--because one day, under a global government, it will be practically the same to all.

"(How can you say you have more or less right to land than anyone else?)"
By this comment, I imagine you meant it to pertain to Israeli immigration policies. No? I responded by saying the real sin lies in saying that somebodies beliefs to living in a Jewish inhabited state are wrong or right. Oi. Thats a complicated sentence. But do you understand what I'm trying to say? I don't think criticizing zionism on the grounds of another theism is very rational at all. You should challenge it on inter-theistic levels, instead.

I'd just like to conclude by saying that I regret not having the chance to respond to this earlier. I'm also dissapointed that AZ doesn't want to participate in my discussion.

Originally posted by Elbaz I'm also dissapointed that AZ doesn't want to participate in my discussion.

TAC: Said all he had to say--and "all true," huh? :p

Interestingly, you ZioNazi's play "stupid" by asking for URL's regarding "all that the brutal LIKUDNIK thugs put on the front pages of the world's newspapers about intransigent Israel.

Last week when the IDF thugs and murders ran over a young US Citizen ( Rachel ) trying to stop the IDF thugs from demolishing the home of a Palestinian family with a US supplied D-5 bull dozer--and also murdered little 4 year old Palestinian baby girl, Elam Al-Assar in the same breath--only the ZioNazi's of the world asked for "certified" and "verifable" reports of those horrific atrocities. The decent Jews of GUSH SHALOM and the WOMEN IN BLACK just sat down where they stood and cried! :(

The rest of the world just shook their heads while awaiting the young heroic Palestinian FREEDOM FIGHTER and subtle CRUISE BOMBER who seems late in arriving...... ( hurry! Hurry! :) )

TheAZCowBoy,

Originally posted by Hannibal
I hope Saddam fires a few Hail Mary’s at Israel during the invasion and plunges the whole Middle East into war. That would make things interesting.

Don't forget that the Palestenians will be eradicated in that process, because that area is tiny. Israeli's will propably survive, because they are ready for every kind of attack with bunckers and masks....Is that what you want to do...eradicate the Palestenians...

[QUOTE] By BloodsuckingGerbile: "US Jews are US citizens and the US congress is as profitable to them as it is to you (assuming that you are a citizen of the US). It's people like you who lead to holocausts because of Jews being "rats" and then calling them "rats" again. [/B]

TAC: Yassir, US Jews are American's that "only" think about being "good loyal American's, huh?"

Yeah right, like Low life Zionist spy Jonathan Pollard ( currrently serving life without the possibility of parole at a Virginia federal prison ) who transferred 80,000 pages of US KH-1 satellite data to Israel in the 1980's, huh? ( The data? Soviet targets and US ICBM launch codes ) of which there were thousands of pages of this data that were transferred by Israeli PM Yitzak Shamir to the USSR in exchange for more liberal Jewish immigation to Israel by the Soviets---traitorous ZioNazi Bass Terds!

Hahahahaha :D

Bloodsucker: "People like you who lead to Holocausts?! :eek:

TAC responds: "3,000 years and 150 nations and the Zionist Jew never finds room at the inn,: and now they want to blame the Palestinian's and "even" TheAZCowBoy! :p

Ever hear this one by TAC elsewhere on SciForums?

TheAZCowBoy,

"Read and grow wise with TheAZCowBoy--or die stupid!" :)

Originally posted by TheAZCowBoy
TAC: Yassir, US Jews are American's that "only" think about being "good loyal American's, huh?"

Yeah right, like Low life Zionist spy Jonathan Pollard ( currrently serving life without the possibility of parole at a Virginia federal prison )

Jonathan Pollard was a civilian American Naval intelligence analyst. In the mid 1980's (circa 1983-1984), Pollard discovered that information vital to Israel's security was being deliberately withheld by certain elements within the U.S. national security establishment. Israel was legally entitled to this vital security information according to a 1983 Memorandum of Understanding between the two countries.
The information being withheld from Israel included Syrian, Iraqi, Libyan and Iranian nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare capabilities - being developed for use against Israel. It also included information on ballistic missile development by these countries and information on planned terrorist attacks against Israeli civilian targets.
When Pollard discovered this suppression of information and asked his superiors about it, he was told to "mind his own business", and that "Jews get nervous talking about poison gas; they don't need to know." He also learned that the objective of cutting off the flow of information to Israel was to severely curtail Israel's ability to act independently in defense of her own interests.
Pollard was painfully aware that Israeli lives were being put in jeopardy as a result of this undeclared intelligence embargo. He did everything he possibly could to stop this covert policy and to have the legal flow of information to Israel restored. When his efforts met no success, he began to give the information to Israel directly.

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/facts.htm

Please direct me to a resource that supports your claims :

Originally posted by TheAZCowBoy
...who transferred 80,000 pages of US KH-1 satellite data to Israel in the 1980's, huh? ( The data? Soviet targets and US ICBM launch codes ) of which there were thousands of pages of this data that were transferred by Israeli PM Yitzak Shamir to the USSR in exchange for more liberal Jewish immigation to Israel by the Soviets---traitorous ZioNazi Bass Terds!

Again, proving TACs' racism: TAC blames the deeds of one Jew on the entire Jewish community.

Originally posted by TheAZCowBoy

I accept your apology, now kneel down and kiss my boots! :D



which apology did you exactly accept.....the one that I called you worthless shit, meniac, old, ect.......alright, if you accept them, then I guess they'll become permanent titles. As far as the boots, you must not be a real cowboy...just got back from our dairy farm in latin America.....I'll pick for you one of my nicest bulls and see how good are your boots in running the hell out of his sight.

So you're so knowlegeable about the middle east. Care explain to us why such revolutionary people can't revolt againest their own governmnet who has been in control for 50 years. Yasser Arafat has been in control for freaking 50 years. Don't you think that leaders get to be blamed for the people fate specially when they have done nothing to improve the situation for 50 years. Oh...I see.....leaders in the middle east must never be held accountable even if they failed miserable for 50 years. I'd say, Palestenian must clean up their internal problems first before even crying Israel. But of course, you'll not share my views.....Imajine Bush loosing the war, screwing up the economy, and continuing to be president for the next 50 years......

TAC comments: "Gee thanks Bloodsucker for sending me to a "Zionist site" to learn more about your traitorous Zionist "hero" Jonathan Pollard.

Now shut up, sit down and listen up! :)

By: Eric Margolis
The Toronto Sun, Jan. 14, 1999

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The case of convicted Israeli spy Jonathan Jay Pollard has again reared its ugly head. American Jewish groups, Hollywood celebrities and Israel have renewed pressure on the besieged Clinton administration to free the man they call "the Jewish Dreyfus." Pollard has served 13 years of a life sentence.

President Bill Clinton is loath to antagonize America's politically powerful Jewish community, which strongly supports the Democratic party. But the president is also under intense pressure from the national security community not to free the Israeli spy. CIA director George Tenent has threatened to resign if Pollard is pardoned. Seven former U.S. secretaries of defence, some of whom are Jewish, also demanded Pollard remain in prison for life.

After years of denials, Israel finally admitted Pollard, a U.S. Navy civilian analyst, was not a "rogue agent," as it originally claimed, but a "spy for Israeli intelligence."

Pollard caused enormous damage to U.S. national security. He gave Israel top-secret U.S. military intelligence and diplomatic codes; names of nearly 100 U.S. agents in the Mideast, who were then "turned" by Israel; NSA code-breaking techniques and targets; intercepts of foreign communications; and U.S. war-fighting plans for the Mideast.

According to CIA sources, Pollard provided Israeli intelligence with names of important American agents inside the former

Soviet Union and Russia who had supplied information on East Bloc weapons and war plans. How the agents' names were linked to the secrets they supplied - a major breach of basic intelligence security - remains a mystery.

Some of the enormously sensitive secrets stolen by Pollard may have been either sold, or bartered, by Israel to the Soviet Union.

A number of key CIA agents in the East Bloc were allegedly executed as a result of Pollard's spying. The KGB likely gained access to top-secret U.S. codes - either directly from Israel, or through spies in Israel's government. In short, Pollard's treachery caused one of the worst security disasters in modern U.S. history.

FBI investigators discovered Pollard was being directed to steal specific secret data by a senior administration official, known as "Mr. X." But the White House, unwilling to stir up a domestic political storm, quashed the investigation.

To my knowledge, three previous cases of high-ranking U.S. government officials caught passing top-secret information to Israel have been similarly hushed up. Two were senior defense department officials under Ronald Reagan, one a top state department official in a previous administration. None was prosecuted.

Pollard's defenders claim he, like French Capt. Alfred Dreyfus in 1894, is a victim of anti-Semitism in the military. They maintain Pollard was "only" spying for a friendly country, motivated solely by concern for Israel's security. These assertions are patently false. Pollard was suspected for some time of spying. Investigation was held off precisely because of fears of raising cries of anti-Semitism. Pollard took large sums of money and jewelry from Israeli agents in payment for spying.

With remarkable chutzpah, Israel, which receives up to $5 billion in U.S. aid annually, refuses to return documents stolen by Pollard, or allow U.S. intelligence to debrief Mossad agents who ran Pollard in order to learn the full extent of the disaster. While Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu kept calling for Pollard's release on "humanitarian" grounds, he refused to free prisoner of conscience Mordechai Vanunu, now serving 18 years in solitary confinement in Israel for telling a British newspaper about Israel's nuclear arsenal.

Pollard is no Jewish patriot. He is a traitor who sold out his country, and fellow intelligence officers, for money, then claimed he was being persecuted by anti-Semites.

Victim he is not. To the contrary, Pollard is a poster boy for anti-Semitism. His treason unfairly exposes all American Jews to hate, and accusations of doubtful loyalty.

Jonathan Pollard is a traitor of the worst kind - not a second Dreyfus - and should stay in prison.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See also The Case Against Jonathan Pollard by Seymour Hersh. See other news reports. More news reports.

To receive Eric Margolis' Foreign Correspondent via email send a note to Majordomo@lglobal.com with the message in the body: subscribe foreignc

For Syndication Information please contact: Email: emargolis@lglobal.com
FAX: (416) 960-4803
__________________________________________________ _

TAC:

Epilog: Of the 18 Russian KGB agents ( moles ) that were working for the US' CIA/NSA organizations up to the Pollard betrayal, 18 were murdered within 2 months of the Pollard revelations reaching Soviet authorities.

Yassir, Senor Bloodsucker, you Zionist Jews are the greatest threat to US secuity. In February 2001, 60-minutes ran a special "ZIONIST" about the special efforts of the Pentagon to pull TOP SECRET security clearances of many "Zionist of questionable reliability," that are employed in the deepest parts of US intelligence.

Sorry, you lose--AGAIN! :D

TheAZCowBoy,

"FREE MORICHHAI VANUNU--A JEWISH CITIZEN, HELD IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT FOR 20 YEARS BY THE Z/RATS FOR EXPOSING TO THE WORLD ISRAEL'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM!" :(

Certainly the israeli army could project a lot of power and occupy a lot of additional land in the middle-east, but that in itself would pose the same problem as in the current occupied territories: you would have hit-and-run (terrorist/freedomfighter whatever you like to call it) attacks all over the place. Like Mr. G said occupying wouldn't be the problem but OWNING it.

Originally posted by heflores
And you are.....Mr. make assumptions. Did anyone ever tell you the root meaning of the word ASSUME.....

well, let me, it's ASS U ME.........

I'm not new here, actually I was born in the USA, just lived half of my life overseas, and half in the US. I'm more American than any one on this site...by birth....and that gives me right to run for president if I wished.

New flash to you, you can get in a lot of trouble stating bad political views around so openely......I wish you never have to find out.

Listen Bambi, I really don't want to get into a tit-a-tat with you. You once called me a terrorist for stating a reason of why suicide bombers do what they do. I didn't like you then and I like you even less now but this isn't a romance board so really, who gives a phuck!

If you are more American than anyone on this site, I feel sorry for the state of America. As a 40 year old man who has lived here all of his life, I really don't need your news flash. The America I grew up in allows one to express his views. Well, since that idiot stole the white house, that may have changed a bit but still, I feel somewhat safe in stating what I feel to be the truth.

Vortex' remark applies equally to US forces.

Originally posted by Vortexx
Certainly the israeli army could project a lot of power and occupy a lot of additional land in the middle-east, but that in itself would pose the same problem as in the current occupied territories: you would have hit-and-run (terrorist/freedomfighter whatever you like to call it) attacks all over the place. Like Mr. G said occupying wouldn't be the problem but OWNING it.

TAC: My Momma taught me not to steal--and hey, I'm just a garden variety type of goyim!

So when you are "d' CHOSEN," why shouldn't be held to a higher standard!" :D

The Israeli army is manned by a bunch of cowards! If they ever had to meet up with, and fight, an equally trained and armed enemy--they would do as they did when the IDF/Rats left Israel's Lebanese SECURITY ZONE--in the middle of the night--with the "Hizbollah "warriors" hot on their tails."

Their "specialty" seems to be murdering unarmed Arab civilians with US supplied weaponry. People that fight back with hands, fists and home made weapons--thanks, George W. Bush, "America's ah-so even handed Middle East peace negotiator and Republican smirking hero!"

TheAZCowBoy,

Next week: The Israeli IDF/SLA Khiam torture prison--left behind with all its horrors and blood stained torture chambers, after the IDF cowards left Lebanon--July, 2000.

Originally posted by dkb218
Listen Bambi, I really don't want to get into a tit-a-tat with you. You once called me a terrorist for stating a reason of why suicide bombers do what they do. I didn't like you then and I like you even less now but this isn't a romance board so really, who gives a phuck!

TAC: Hey dkb, what's the sense of trying to talk sense to a Zionazi and/or Israel apologist?

The only way you can overcome their "CHUTZPAH" is with a well oiled AK-47 with accompanying 30-round banana clip! :p

TheAZCowBoy,

"Follow me boys to victory over the ZioNazi riff-raff!" :D

Originally posted by dkb218
Listen Bambi, I really don't want to get into a tit-a-tat with you. You once called me a terrorist for stating a reason of why suicide bombers do what they do. I didn't like you then and I like you even less now but this isn't a romance board so really, who gives a phuck!

If you are more American than anyone on this site, I feel sorry for the state of America. As a 40 year old man who has lived here all of his life, I really don't need your news flash. The America I grew up in allows one to express his views. Well, since that idiot stole the white house, that may have changed a bit but still, I feel somewhat safe in stating what I feel to be the truth.

Originally posted by dkb218
Listen Bambi, I really don't want to get into a tit-a-tat with you. You once called me a terrorist for stating a reason of why suicide bombers do what they do. I didn't like you then and I like you even less now but this isn't a romance board so really, who gives a phuck!

If you are more American than anyone on this site, I feel sorry for the state of America. As a 40 year old man who has lived here all of his life, I really don't need your news flash. The America I grew up in allows one to express his views. Well, since that idiot stole the white house, that may have changed a bit but still, I feel somewhat safe in stating what I feel to be the truth.

All that for explaining to you the word ASSUME, I meant ASS of you and me....So here I was insulting myself too.

Anyways, I don't think you're too extremer on your ideas like the cowboy. I once too, really.....supported suicide bombers, but I know I was wrong now. We have all see over an over again where the viscious cycle of voilance go.....No where. I hate to see innocent people becoming victims on both sides. So much good energy not being directed correctly....Bad leadership that is free to destroy societies, yet unaccountalbe for it's doings. I want to see peace in the middle east, but AZcowboy mentality will not lead to peace, it will worsen the situation.

As fart as freedom of political views. Let me tell you this. This country of USA throughout it's history have picked on one class of people. We picked and placed in concentration camps.. the Indians....Africans.....Japanease....and now it's the arab muslims turn. So this have nothing to do with Bush...it's consistant American Politics of opressing one group.....I think my question about how that AZcowboy is surviving in such an environment with such extreme views is valid.

Please no need for condecending langauage....believe it or not, it does hurt my feelings.

It's good that people like this "AZboy" can find a forum to vomit his hate into. It reminds us that his brand of racist ignorance still does exist in the world.

Originally posted by Tadpole_Terror
It's good that people like this "AZboy" can find a forum to vomit his hate into. It reminds us that his brand of racist ignorance still does exist in the world.

I always knew that there was anti semetic sentiments, but I have never experienced it so openely from a person who does not hold back and speaks such racists hatefull remarks with such high confidance. It makes me so sad to see so much hate standing in the way of peace and reconcilations. And what annoys me the most is that he is a residance of the US. What a hypocrite.

Elbaz: You don't seem to be able to view my position at all. You think of helping others as charity that your should benefit from. You say you don't favor certain groups, and a few words later you say to paraphrase "so what if I do" . Am I so alone in the world to be so unselfish and greedless? Are people so unevolved and animalislistc as this? Is it so common for people to fatten thier bellies before feeding someone who is starving to death? I hope that you may one day change and become one with the benevolent side of humanity. I really hope all this greed and malevolence is societal and not human nature, for if it is then I must be other than human. Somebody tell me there are other beings of pure benevolence out there, and that they aren't an endangered species.

Everyone..... now please send a $100 donation to the Israeli orphan's fund.

Originally posted by Tadpole_Terror
It's good that people like this "AZboy" can find a forum to vomit his hate into. It reminds us that his brand of racist ignorance still does exist in the world.

TAC: Hey Bubba, I am the antithesis of the ZioNazi's of the world. The people that saw fragile Rachel Corrie's body "crushed to death by a low life IDF Z/Rat punk in a US supplied D-5 Caterpillar bull dozer and said:

a. Foolish girl, why did she "get in the way of a mans work?"
b. Serves her right, "Anti-Semite!"
c. Damned "peaceniks," Israel should expell 'em all!"
d. Didn't she have anything better to do in America?"

Hey tadpole, spawn for the Ibis, someday when you become a wart covered "Ribit" and have a little more maturity I will teach you about "real" racism in that 1/2 acre of Zionist hell and show you the photos of your killer relatives work.

TheAZCowBoy,

Hey, HeFlores: "If you don't like the heat---get out of the kitchen!" :D

Elbaz: You don't seem to be able to view my position at all. You think of helping others as charity that your should benefit from. You say you don't favor certain groups, and a few words later you say to paraphrase "so what if I do" . Am I so alone in the world to be so unselfish and greedless? Are people so unevolved and animalislistc as this? Is it so common for people to fatten thier bellies before feeding someone who is starving to death? I hope that you may one day change and become one with the benevolent side of humanity. I really hope all this greed and malevolence is societal and not human nature, for if it is then I must be other than human. Somebody tell me there are other beings of pure benevolence out there, and that they aren't an endangered species.

I'm not sure what you mean? It could be that I'm being a bit blind to my own postings here. Please give me an example.

One thing I can tell you definitively is that I'm a fairly compassionate person. I share my lunch daily with a guy who's deadbeat parents don't really think of. I give plenty to tzedaca, and I'm probably excessively nice to the elderly and disabled. I've really sacrificed a side of myself to make the world a better place. Little things, really. I don't give a damn if I'm cool if it means I have to be an asshole. You really don't know me man. And I don't know you.

AZ,
Can't respond to everything you've posted right now. I'm preparing for a weekend ski trip. I might be able to write something up tomorrow. If not, you'll have to wait till late monday. Good to see you've rejoined the debate, though. I'm sure heflores and the others can keep you occupied till I come back.

Israel would be buried in the sands of Arabia for ever.

No one of you mentioned the FREEDOM FIGHTERS of Hizbollah who CRASHED the Israeli army in southern Lebanon and FORCED them to flee like salughtered chicken 2 years ago.

You guys who think nazi Israel can do whatever it wants are living in BIG FANTASY.

'SMALL ISLAND WILL NEVER SINK THE OCEAN AROUND IT, THE TERRORIST STATE OF ISRAEL IS THIS SMALL ISLAND AND THE ARABS ARE THE ROARING OCEAN ' Arabic proverb.

HIZBOLLAH READY TO DESTROY ISRAEL

There are more and more rumors spreading around that Israel will open a second front on Lebanon’s border. Such a development of the situation may cause the conflict turn to a regional war, in which there will be other countries of the Middle East involved, not only Lebanon, but also Syria.

Terje Roed-Larsen, the UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, claimed that the attacks on Israel from the Lebanon group Hizbollah were taking the shape of a bigger threat to the security and stability in the region than the continuing conflict with the Palestinians.

Rod Larsen believes that the world community is concerned about three issues in the current situation of the Middle East crisis: the withdrawal of the Israeli army from Palestinian territories, the attacks from Lebanon, and the delivery of humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.

Hizbollah’s attacks on Israeli positions have recently become more frequent. The Israeli troops responded with artillery fire on Lebanon’s border. Ariel Sharon's government announced that if the attacks continue, then the retaliation would be wide-ranging.

News pieces say that Hizbollah militants have a strong military power, which is enough to paralyze Israel’s north. This organization has some three thousand militants and the up-to-date defense technology, and this organization is in no need of money. Iran, for instance, assigns no less than $100 million to Hizbollah annually, but there is also Syria, Lebanon, and other Muslim countries.

Hizbollah has many fans in the Isl