Earlier, Avatar said something about accepting Israel's legitimacy.

When asked to define that, he quoted the dictionary saying something along the lines of "Operating within the law".

Well, does Israel operate within the law? No.

Take a look at all the international laws they've broken.

Sure, the Palestinians have broken plenty too, but Israel is supposed to be a legitimate nation. Every time they break international law, they are singing an ode to their own illegitimacy.

How many UN resolutions have they broken?

Don't even think of saying that the UN sucks, or any of that bullcrap. That is for losers who think that if the UN doesn't do what they want, the UN is a morally bankrupt organisation, or that they're irrelevant, or whatever.

Well, that isn't true. Every single nation in the world (with the exception of 2, the Vatican and Taiwan, Taiwan on the grounds that the Kuomintang party lost their UN delegation to the Chinese Communist Party a while ago and now that they are ruling Taiwan, they still relinquished control, and the Vatican because of numerous reasons [the Vatican has some sort of special observers' seat or something]). Even the formerly 100% neutral Switzerland joined its first international organisation, the UN. Now, the most powerful defensive army and the most powerful offensive army in the world are both under nations that are members of the UN. The UN is about as far from irrelevant as you can get. Otherwise, the US, China, Russia, etc. would already have withdrawn.

shall we begin, or do you want Jerrek to have his 2cents first?;)

Just what "laws" are you keying of and why would being in violation of them make a government, or even a country "illegitimate"?

the very laws that make it "legal" for a stranger to come and kick you out of your own home, take possesion of your property?
hows that?? I'm sure if that happened to you, you'd run to the "law"


the law's an ass right? well maybe we should talk about ehical and moral rights first?

*activates Jerrek simulator*

UN sucks man! They're morally bankrupt! Fcuk them, they've got no authority to decide what the US does! We'll withdraw from the UN and do it all ourselves! And we'll bomb any nation that has criminals!

It is legal for a stranger to come and kick me out of my own home, and take possesion of my property if done as prescribed by law. These laws do not apply outside of the USA.

So, what "laws" are you keying of and why would being in violation of them make a government, or even a country "illegitimate"?

lol, think of this, the UN declared Israel to be illegitamate(wont happen but...), what does israel do? defends itself to the last man of course. Theres nothing you can do about it , they are there to stay because they have the will to stay, no one is threatening them like china threatens taiwan. terrorists arent a threat to israel no matter how delusional you get. Israels there, conflict will go on until people learn to live with it and get on with their lives.
What an absurd topic. Also, the UN is irrelevant because it ALLOWS israel, north korea, and every other country to break resolutions. It really is the league of nations...the US has as good as walked out already(war on iraq)...but maybe the ship is salveagable?

It is legal for a stranger to come and kick me out of my own home, and take possesion of my property if done as prescribed by law. These laws do not apply outside of the USA.


which law prescibes that as being legal?

Take a look at all the international laws they've broken. Of course, the rest of the world has broken no laws whatsoever. Especially Syria, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and so on. They are the angels of this world.

Sure, the Palestinians have broken plenty too, but Israel is supposed to be a legitimate nation. So you're saying Palestine is not, right?

Don't even think of saying that the UN sucks, or any of that bullcrap. That is for losers who think that if the UN doesn't do what they want, the UN is a morally bankrupt organisation, or that they're irrelevant, or whatever. So you see the U.N. as an organization to look up to? Do you support them putting Libya as the head of the Human Rights Commission too?

The UN is about as far from irrelevant as you can get. Right, which is why recent Security Council meetings had such an incredible influence on the United States, Britain, Australia, lots of Eastern Europe, and so on.

it would be fun to have someone with jerrecks attitude + a brain to go along with it.


Of course, the rest of the world has broken no laws whatsoever. Especially Syria, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and so on. They are the angels of this world.

"mom! if sis did it, why cant i?"

'because my child, two wrongs dont make a right!"

So why not complain about the other countries as much as you complain about Israel?

Jerrek,
You are still assuming your die hard position and enjoying your seat in LaLa land. Israel mistakes started at the time of conception, and continues till this day.

The biggest mistake Israel have made was allowing the horrific situation of the Palestenian to prolong as much as it did and isolating itself entirely from it's neighbors. I truly fail to see Israel mission or objective as a state, and I'm sure other arabs don't understand it either.

Imajine this, you live in a nice neighborhood, where sort of everybody agrees, ocassional fights about the neighbor dog peeing on your grass may happen, but at the end of the day, you sleep with your windows open and your car unlocked. All of a sudden, this guy comes in your neighborhood with some illigitimate court order from the Britich that he should live in the house by the pond. Everyone in the house is out and pushed in the street. In addition to the bad start, you have an attitude and decides never to talk to your neighbor and look down at them and if they ever dare talk about the past and the situation of the people in the street, you threaten to wage a war againest them. Your only friend is this bully who lives in another continent, yet you drag him into your littelest fights.

When will Israel learn how to live among the arabs, because lack of doing so is really grounds of termination of their stay....HOW RUDE, Israel must conform and change the attitude and coexist with it's neighbors. I fail to see how smart people like the jewish people can not see the benefit and potential from decent dealings with their neighbors.....Unless the jewish are not following some old scriptural prophecy or something that dictates that they be ass holes, their actions makes no sense. If Israel learns how to play in the sandbox, they might even become independant and their economy might be great and won't need US to spoon feed them any more out of our own dish that's barely enough for us.

jerrek
had this conversation on so many other threads, I'll make it simple:

that land belongs to the Palastinians

ok?

...and to those who say "oh well the jews have this right, that right, religious heritage blah blah..."....
I say (and have said on other posts):

fine..whatever rights the zionists have, the Palastininians have 10000 x that right

...so which ever way you look at it...the Palastinians are being shafted.

have a nice day.

Do you support them putting Libya as the head of the Human Rights Commission too?
I'm going to keep on saying this until you get it through your head Jerrek. You had a decent Human Rights commissionar in Mary Robinson, but the US got annoyed when she criticised them as fairly as she criticised other nations - so the US administration put serious pressure on her to resign and she did. Now you have Libya to deal with. So shut up about it, because it's your fault.

I'm going to keep on saying this until you get it through your head Jerrek. You had a decent Human Rights commissionar in Mary Robinson, but the US got annoyed when she criticised them as fairly as she criticised other nations - so the US administration put serious pressure on her to resign and she did. Now you have Libya to deal with. So shut up about it, because it's your fault.Stop thinking of excuses, however valid they may be, and answer the question. Do you support appointing Libya as the chair of the Human Rights commission?

that land belongs to the Palastinians The United Nations does not agree with that. The United Nations gave that land to the Jews.



And to the rest of the people, you are all ignoring the question I asked, So why not complain about the other countries as much as you complain about Israel?

Jerrek:

The United Nations does not agree with that. The United Nations gave that land to the Jews.


now you're just deliberately yanking my chain

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Originally posted by Jerrek
And to the rest of the people, you are all ignoring the question I asked, So why not complain about the other countries as much as you complain about Israel?

And why the hell do you hate democrates and Bill Clinton so much.....We hate the idea of Israel because it is our conviction that they have no moral standing, the same way you hate Bill Clinton....

Originally posted by Jerrek
The United Nations does not agree with that. The United Nations gave that land to the Jews.
[/B]

And the United States said no settelment and cease fire and didn't agree with US in war againest Iraq and many others.....Do you have a selective memory when dealing with the UN or are you just being a prick.

Originally posted by bhudmaash
Jerrek:




now you're just deliberately yanking my chain

:mad: :mad: :mad: So hang on, do you support the U.N. or not? Make up your mind. You and your cronies like quoting international law, agreements, and U.N. stuff. The fact is, by international agreement the land was given to the Jews and the Palestinians have no right to it.

The United Nations does not agree with that. The United Nations gave that land to the Jews.


NO!......F**K THIS!!....i'm going to get this thru to you jerrek...if it's the last thing I do

the un GAVE that land? does that mean the UN had any moral/historical right to the land??

just answer one question...

dont give me any crap....was that land the UN's? or the Palastinians???

That is not how it's done Bhumaash. Turn his hypocracy back at him and let him ponder at his own shit.....Do you notice he never dares answer me.

I ignore idiots.


Now let me get this straight... You're selectively obeying the U.N.?

1) have some respect...you're in no position to call anyone idiot..got that?

2)ANSWER MY QUESTION

Originally posted by Jerrek
I ignore idiots.


What is your qualifications moron.....and I don't mean your Coop education crap, because I hire 20 stupid coops a year to train their sorry ass for less than tenth of my salary.

What happened, couldn't get a research or teaching assistant on campus....Your GPA aint good enough or something.....Maybe your idol Bush cut all financial aid and forced you to get a coop and get delayed....Are you on the 10 year plan to get a Bachelor of Science ......?

Originally posted by Jerrek
You're selectively obeying the U.N.?

And so are you....

jERREK:

You're selectively obeying the U.N.?

boy...I know EXACTLY what trap you're TRYING to lead me into.
Check my posts,....I've always refrained from using the UN to bolster any arguemnt....so stop that right there.

now answer the question

The United Nations does not agree with that. The United Nations gave that land to the Jews.
first time I agree with Jerrek in any topic ;)

fools seldom differ

you want to change history and say that the land wasn't given legally to the jews by the UN? :rolleyes:

you want to change history and say that the land wasn't given legally to the jews by the UN?


Hey Buhd here I give u avatar as a slave , its legal because I have given him to you , enjoy .......dont be rough he's latvian he still tries to get over this guy :

http://casablancaconference.com/images/stalin.jpg

Hmmmmmm......1.6 M , what to do what to do

You are all not accurate on this....We desperately need the brain here, Allah Mathematics....

The British Mandate
The Balfour Declaration - In 1917, Britain issued the Balfour Declaration. The declaration stated Britain's support for the creation of a Jewish national home in Palestine, without violating the civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities. The declaration was the result of lobbying by the small British Zionist movement, especially by Dr. Haim Weizmann, who had emigrated from Russia to Britain, but it was motivated by British strategic considerations

The English occupied this land along with many others in the region. http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

The Brits did it not the UN. The UN inherited the problem among many others, the UN didn't create Israel, just endorsed it, becuase it had no other choice.

*sigh*..yup I've said tht till I'm blue in the face. He wants to argue, yet he can't even conceptualize what the hell he's arguing about.

AVATAR: get to the back of the que....I'll deal with u later

Lets not forget how nice the Sterns Irguns and Lehi asked the Brits for their mandate .


becuase it had no other choice.


There's always a choice , but its all a matter of interests

AllahsM:

thnx for the slave...dont worry I'll make sure he's suitably used and abused.

1.6 million...nah...no problem

and from whoo did the English take that territory?

and from whoo did the English take that territory?


From the Turks ??????

They colonized it after they were assisted by the Arabs to overthrow the ottoman empire

this is where av says oh well if the turks can colonise it, the brits can...so why not the zionists

Originally posted by Avatar
and from whoo did the English take that territory?

The English occupied the world avatar, including India, Egypt, Iraq, the whole nine yards....Before them were the ottomans...before them were the ....??? till the beginning of time, this region have been in occupation, some nicer than others, but none as crazy as the zionists. All occupations though left the people alone, just took their resources and didn't respect them, but never did England throw the people out and move a bunch of British in, that's the difference my friend between former occupations and the zionist occupation...The zionist was by far the most disruptive to the people.

My daughter always asks so many questions like you, I have a term for the root source, it rythems in arabic....."tell me the story starting from when when the guy hit him with the iron rod"......Behind any problem there is a man who hit a man with an iron rod and started trouble.

ALLAHSm:

dude... gotta a good deal on rocket launchers from my syrian buddy....1.6 million?....no prob, what say we split, u take 800,000, and i'll take 800,000!!!!!!!!:D

before them were the ....???


Arab Caliph


thnx for the slave...dont worry I'll make sure he's suitably used and abused.


no problem , u wish a legit paper with that so u can show everybody he's rightfully yours ?

oh absolutely, all ileagal/immoral activities must come with the respective authenticated paperwork

Allow me to interupt.
I was refering to my understanding of the "law of iminent domain" (sp?).
Then there are forclosure laws.
In fact, your life can be taken legally.

".....We hate the idea of Israel because it is our conviction that they have no moral standing, the same way you hate Bill Clinton...."

Bill Clinton, Jerk that he is, was a valid president of the United States, just as Israel is a valid nation.

By the way, Israel was formed, what , 3000 years ago? Certainly 2000+.
Israel was renamed Palistine by the Romans when they pissed off thier masters, the Romans, once too often. The Romans then did away with what was Israel including perhaps most of it's population. That worked well for the Romans.
Naturaly others, non-jews, moved in and, hundreds of years later, many became Moslem. It wasn't until last century that the Jews were able to re-establish Israel. While they were "gone", there was no nation there, not even Palistine. The land was ruled by several other outside powers after Rome lost it's grip.
"Palistinians/Israelis" are the people that live in that land, not just now but for the last 2000+ years. When the Jews regained control of the area from England, They decided to call the land Israel.
So the question is, why can't the population of that land "get along"?
I could key much more but I really must get some work done so I can get payed so I can avoid forclosure. ;)

Naturaly others, non-jews, moved in and, hundreds of years later, many became Moslem. It wasn't until last century that the

no they didnt just "move in" Arab people have always lived there.

AGAIN you equate ARAB WITH MUSLIM

stop it.

Most of your notions are wrong....Please read early history of this area to understand this problem better.

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#Geography%20and%20Early%20History

The land has been occpied by arab muslims for over 2000 years, with minimal Jewish facts constituting less than 10% of the population. These are facts that shouldn't be messed with to justify agendas.

By the way, Israel was formed, what , 3000 years ago? Certainly 2000+.


What ? Not this so-called Israel my friend ....


Palistinians/Israelis" are the people that live in that land, not just now but for the last 2000+ years


LMAO , actually neither of them did my friend , Ur confusing the Philistines and Hebrew Israelites

Hey everyone!

Look at the fools! Jerrek, SuperFudd, Salty, Avatar! Yep!

They don't get it. Israel was not originally a homeland for a religion. DUH! t'was a homeland for an ethnic group/nationality, the Hebrews/Israelites. There have always been Arabs living there.

However, Ashkenazim have 0% Hebrew/Israelite blood. Their blood is Turkic, Eastern European, German. Let me tell you a story...

In the age when the Byzantine and Ottoman empires were still clashing, a small group of Turks lived on land that was claimed by two people, the Christian Byzantine emprie and the Muslim Ottoman empire. Both tried to impose religious law. This caused much chaos and disorder.

What did these people do next? They converted to Judaism so that they would not be harassed under either empire. There are still Jews in Turkey, however most of them are Sephardim that fled from Spain when all Jews and Muslims were expelled in the 1400s. (or was it 1500s?). The Ashkenazim made their way into Europe, and they spread and spread.

I believe the proper term for the original ethnic group is "Tatar", and they were of the nationality/branch/band of Tatars called "Crimean Tatars".

There is an extinct language that died out in the last couple of centuries called Judeo-Crimean Tatar, this was the language these people began to form after they adopted Judaism. Some stayed, and eventually died out, but the others went into Europe and absorbed other languages to eventually form Yiddish (and the other more minor Jewish languages of Ashkenazim).

The Sephardim are the true Hebrews/Israelites. For centuries they lived in peace and harmony in Arab countries (aka the Ottoman Empire) with their Muslim neighbours after being expelled from Israel by the Romans. There was a vast diaspora across the Ottoman Empire, and some mixing with local population did occur. Some lived in Israel, yes, but that was only a small part, these Sephardic Jews were welcome anywhere in the Ottoman Empire, and they got along with their Muslim neighbours (as evidence of the far reaches of the Sephardic community, there is still a large Jewish community in Casablanca, Morocco, and in other Arab countries and other former members of the Ottoman Empire). The way the Sephardic Jews came to Spain was not the route the Ashkenazim took to get as far as France and Italy (and eventually England), but rather the way the Moors took to invade and conquer the majority of Spain.

That's why the Spanish expelled Muslims *and* Jews: The Jews were friends with the Muslims and lived with them.

"Mozarab" means "almost Arab" or "wannabe Arab", and that was the name for the half-hispanic half-Arab Muslim population of Spain. The Muslim Moors all spoke Mozarabic, an Arabized form of Aragonese (a language similar to Spanish), and the Jewish Moors spoke Ladino or Judeo-Spanish, closely related to Mozarabic.

Evidence of harmonious coexistance in the Ottoman empire of Jews and Muslims can be seen by the large collection of religious literature written in the Hebrew script but local dialectal forms of the Arabic language.

There were never Ashkenazim in Israel until the last hundred years. Sephardim, however, had been living right next door to Muslims for centuries, some of them in Israel. (but most spread throughout the Ottoman empire, only some returned)

Flores,
You keyed "The land has been occpied by arab muslims for over 2000 years"
I demand a recount. How old is the Moslem religon?

Israel was not originally a homeland for a religion. DUH! t'was a homeland for an ethnic group/nationality, the Hebrews/Israelites. There have always been Arabs living there.
I know that, and what you want to say is...?
there is a good song by ABBA - "The winner takes it all" ;)

Originally posted by SuperFudd
Flores,
You keyed "The land has been occpied by arab muslims for over 2000 years"
I demand a recount. How old is the Moslem religon?

about 1400y if I'm correct

Interesting, the Jews are always holloring: "But the UN gave us this land!"

Hey, but they also gave the other 50% of the land (Under the English Balfour Declaration) to the Palestinian's)--and now Israel holds 78% of this entire land grant ( and increasing by the day as Israel's new security fence project continues to gobble up hundred's of thousands of dunams of Palestinian turf--including swollowing up entire Palestinian villages in its path)

Flashback: Yet, the Jewish terds, showing no respect for the UN moved right back into Jerusalem the very 1st week after endorsing UN resolution #181 which brought Jerusalem under 100% jurisdiction of the UN.

Another flashback: In 1948, the Jewish state, having murdered hundred's of thousands of Palestinians, run off over 700,000 Palestinian's off their land and burned over 400 Arab villages and Mosques to the ground, were in a rush to be accepted by the UN as a sovereign nation--so they hurriedly applied to be recognized as a nation--and the UN relented against the wishes of many nations that saw the blood soaked Zionists as the devil incarnate ( and how right they were!) and the rest is history.

And just as they stuck out their stiff middle finger regarding Jerusalem and UN resolution #181 they have continued to do so with over 90+ UN resolutions they have choosen to ignore with the tacit approval of the US and the US veto.

Salaaaam,

AbdullaTheBomber....

GB :

Good thing to see that not everybody is fooled by those "one-race" fairytales to excuse a state like Israel . Have you ever read Arthur Koessler (thank God he's Jewish ;) ) , I have some conclusions about some questions that surround this Hebrew Israelite and Khazarian subject , I will post in the "human" section a short essay on it , be sure to check for it :)

I disagree with certain things you are saying here :
As far as the Ashkenazim decendants go :


the Byzantine and Ottoman empires


Nope Byzantium and the Caliph


Both tried to impose religious law. This caused much chaos and disorder.


The emprie was Turkic (but not in Turkey , Istanbul was Byzantine) it was called Khazaria :
http://www.khazaria.com/images/khazaria.gif

He convokes the discutants separately. He asks the Christian which of the other two religions is nearer the truth, and the Christian answers, "the Jews". He confronts the Muslim with the same question and gets the same reply.


*from Arthur Koessler 13th Tribe


I believe the proper term for the original ethnic group is "Tatar", and they were of the nationality/branch/band of Tatars called "Crimean Tatars".


Nope Khazars not Tatar .


The Sephardim are the true Hebrews/Israelites


Are they really ? You see I dont believe hardly anybody still is , perhaps the Falasha's (because we know they never left Ethiopia) the most even , then the Mizrahim Sephardi (mixed amongst Arabians and Turkics) , and the Ladino tongue Sephardi (mixed with Arabs and Romantics) ....... but all those who stayed along the todays Arabs are extremely intermixed , and many have converted from Judaism to Christianity to Islam , its all quite wide-spread wouldnt you say ?

I dont think ull find Hebrew Israelites , I think peoples should udnerstand that races fade over the years as peoples multiply and diversify , they form new groups , old ones dissapear .....

There are no longer ancient Egyptians , why would there be ancient Hebrews , just because peoples practice their culture ?

GB , could you inform mr Alanh the wannabe goy boy he is incorrect on his Jewish "one-race" peoples , we have had this discussion in http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21686&perpage=20&pagenumber=4

You mention also Arabic writing by Jewish writers , it goes beyond this even . The Mizrahim inhabiting Palestine and Arabia actually speak Arabic .