I always expected that Israel would not sit by and let a country that has vowed to wipe it off the map aquire the means to do so (nukes), but this report surprised even me:
ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, according to several Israeli military sources.

The attack would be the first with nuclear weapons since 1945, when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Israeli weapons would each have a force equivalent to one-fifteenth of the Hiroshima bomb.

Under the plans, conventional laser-guided bombs would open “tunnels” into the targets. “Mini-nukes” would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout.

“As soon as the green light is given, it will be one mission, one strike and the Iranian nuclear project will be demolished,” said one of the sources.

The plans, disclosed to The Sunday Times last week, have been prompted in part by the Israeli intelligence service Mossad’s assessment that Iran is on the verge of producing enough enriched uranium to make nuclear weapons within two years.

Israeli military commanders believe conventional strikes may no longer be enough to annihilate increasingly well-defended enrichment facilities. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html

Wow! Never thought of Israel as a massive suicide bomber.

Guess people are known by the company they keep.

Israel is not going to use nuclear weapons on Iran or any other country. <--thats an opinion

Israel is not going to use nuclear weapons on Iran or any other country. <--thats an opinion

I totally agree. Sounds more like a pissing contest to me.

Israel is not going to use nuclear weapons on Iran or any other country. <--thats an opinion
Not first.

Certainly last.

I believe they'll do something. Wouldn't you in their shoes? But nuclear? I doubt it, unless it really was the only way.

it's only a tiny nuke. you won't see a miles-high mushroom cloud. it's about 7% of the force of the Hiroshima bomb

pissing contest
if that's what it takes to stop Iran's nuclear ambitions, then a pissing contest is how it will start. considering that the US has shifted a whole bunch of heavyhitting equipment into the area i wouldnt be surprised big things are about to happen.

Never thought of Israel as a massive suicide bomber
the argument is that Israel's use of a nuke will deter any serious response from Iran... i.e. respond and get a coupla more of these dropped at the Majlis building

i don't see Israel has any options left. do you?
i mean, this nuke strike is not imminent. it's just an option. but it's one that will become necessary very soon, considering where Iran is heading.

I believe they'll do something. Wouldn't you in their shoes? But nuclear? I doubt it, unless it really was the only way.

What shoes? Israel is the one with the nuclear weapons. The one that has not signed the NPT. The one that is preparing a missile strike.

And Iran has said the regime must change which was a quote from Khomeini.

And this is justification for a first strike?

How many countries has Iran attacked? vs Israel?

Does anyone use their brains at all?:rolleyes:

it's only a tiny nuke. you won't see a miles-high mushroom cloud. it's about 7% of the force of the Hiroshima bomb


if that's what it takes to stop Iran's nuclear ambitions, then a pissing contest is how it will start. considering that the US has shifted a whole bunch of heavyhitting equipment into the area i wouldnt be surprised big things are about to happen.


the argument is that Israel's use of a nuke will deter any serious response from Iran... i.e. respond and get a coupla more of these dropped at the Majlis building

i don't see Israel has any options left. do you?
i mean, this nuke strike is not imminent. it's just an option. but it's one that will become necessary very soon, considering where Iran is heading.


Yeah a tiny nuke will make Israel lots of friends worldwide.

Israelis will become popular overnight as the most cool people on earth.

Finally they will get the recognition they have been seeking.

No surprise...they have done it before in Iraq, only with conventional bombs.

Speculation is rife already:

Are We Still Going to Support Israel If They Use Nuclear Weapons?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/are-we-still-going-to-sup_b_38001.html

If there are countries in the world that are willing to use nuclear weapons on countries that did not attack them, then all other nations must be prepared and must have deterrence of their own. It would be irrational and irresponsible of any government not to build up their own nuclear arsenal to prevent countries like Israel from attacking them.

Are we talking about this Iran?:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2132568.ece

The Iran where if you are married and raped you can be stoned for adultry? In that case bombs away....

The US where you can get firebombed for having an abortion.

Lest we forget the UK where you can have your car wrecked up because you are a fisherman. Damn animal rights people.

What shoes? Israel is the one with the nuclear weapons. The one th at has not signed the NPT. The one that is preparing a missile strike.
The shoes.....are being a nation completely surrounded by it's enemies, that have massed together and attacked them in unison before.
Three times since 1947.


And Iran has said the regime must change which was a quote from Khomeini. The Khomeini's are kind of fascist, religious war-lords in a long line of fascist religious war-lords....
These Arabs and the Nazi's have a little secret in common....
This kind of religious war machine started in Babel......and is the still the same beast today.


And this is justification for a first strike?
They have been far too patient if the truth were known.
They didn't wait to long with Iraq did they?


How many countries has Iran attacked? vs Israel?
Iran has vowed to wipe them off the map, publicly without reserve in full view of the press.
They wish to be the great new Arab leaders...rallying a war cry against their ancient enemy.
That's about as brilliant as head banging a chainsaw.
But, they do have a history as suicide bombers.


Does anyone use their brains at all?:rolleyes:
You better roll your eyes.....because your post deserved a good eye rolling.

But, once they take the lid off that genie's bottle and it's a whole new ball game.

-Russian nukes firing on America because antiquated Soviet air defense systems can't tell the difference between sub launched conventional D-5's and nuclear D-5's....and some idiot in Washington ordered them to change over so many of the sub launched ICBMs even after a study group explained the stupidity.....the suicidal ineptitude of such a plan.

-India and Pakistan over Kashmir......(they talk of days for which they sit and wait, and all will be revealed).....
-China against Taiwan, and Japan maybe....
-The Koreas....
-Russian treaties with Iran, American treaties with Israel....

Whats the official designation of a World War ......similtainious outbreaks on how many continents?

I'd say this has the potential to qualify in the history books.....if there are any "history" books left, to write it in.

Go to Pseudoscience and read "The Rabbit Hole".....
It was worthy to get shut down and locked.

I must have done something right.

That translates to about 41.3 years....any school child with a calculator can figure that out, but the real trick is knowing when the clock started.
Pray, sir prophet, show us your calculations!

Pray, sir prophet, show us your calculations!

Just my opinion.....but you're right maybe they don't need to know everything, so never mind.

What are your calculations?

Looks like a good time to take an extended holiday an Antarctica.

Looks like a good time to take an extended holiday an Antarctica.


If they only knew the pun in that one......

If Israel starts a nuclear war with Iran, I am in support an utter annihilation of the Jewish state in retaliation.

Despite the fact that it would destroy some of the most priceless historical sites in all the world.

It's discomforting to see madanthonywayne, crazy151drinker, otheadp TheVisitor, and Prince_James here letting slip a perverted lust over the unlikely prospect of Israel initiating nuclear war soon. This is not a game, and not a fantasy story. These rising howls for blood, if joined in a sufficiently resonant chorus, have a destructive potential as real as a nuclear detonation.

The bloodthirsty here are not alone, and are part of irrational mobs on all sides, whose sickness brings a ratcheting-up of danger to us all in episodes like this.

I would like to know who specifically has decided to incite sick mobs like our little rabble here into sharply elevating fear and danger at this time. It's as if someone is worried that the heat may be turned down on the Mideast powder-keg. The most imminent threat to millions of lives festers in this intentionally-stoked political crucible, and not in unconfirmed Iranian enrichment facilities years away from producing a nuclear threat/deterrent (if they even exist at all).

Pay attention, world. When fangs start appearing like this, those of us not under the spell had better get off our asses and speak reason loud and clear before critical mass is reached: When enough want war (or peace), that's exactly what we all get.

Just my opinion.....but you're right maybe they don't need to know everything, so never mind.

What are your calculations?
I'm not making any claims. You just said that one can work out that the "timer lasts for 41.3 years" with a calculator. how did you work that out, I wonder?

This is a second-hand claim via a not-very prestigious newspaper. I'm not too worried.

The US has a plan to strike Iran with nukes too. (http://www.amconmag.com/2005_08_01/article3.html)

It's called Contingency Planning, we do it continually, on many countries.

Well Israel has officially denied it.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/810130.html

But official and actual can mean two different things.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/810455.html

Well Israel has officially denied it. But official and actual can mean two different things.

Yeah, like things that are said about India, and things that are actually happening all the time there? Like that, ya' mean?

Baron Max

Yeah, like things that are said about India, and things that are actually happening all the time there? Like that, ya' mean?

Baron Max

Like this?


IDF soldiers say ordered to 'shoot to kill' at Gaza post where Palestinian girl died
By Yuval Yoaz, Haaretz Correspondent

Soldiers and officers at the Girit outpost in the Gaza Strip, where a 13-year-old Palestinian girl was killed two years ago, claim to have received orders that at night, they were always to shoot to kill - even though this violated the official rules of engagement in Gaza, according to a High Court of Justice ruling that ordered the army to open an investigation into this issue.

...

Like this?

No, I was talking about the nice, wonderful things that are said about India being the land of milk and honey, only to discover that it's in constant, vicious turmoil almost all the time, over much of the nation.

Like that, Sam.

Baron Max

No, I was talking about the nice, wonderful things that are said about India being the land of milk and honey, only to discover that it's in constant, vicious turmoil almost all the time, over much of the nation.

Like that, Sam.

Baron Max

Is it?

violent crime rate:

The all India average is 18.4 per 100,000 for 2003.
http://keralapolice.org/crimestat/5.html

The US average is 475.8 per 100,000 for 2003.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Is it?

Yeah, it is. And some/most crime in India ain't even reported, and some of the crime that IS reported isn't recorded! If the US took such a view, we'd have less crime, too.

Baron Max

Yeah, it is. And some/most crime in India ain't even reported, and some of the crime that IS reported isn't recorded! If the US took such a view, we'd have less crime, too.

Baron Max

Same goes for the US.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/about/crime_measures.html

And no, I've lived in both places. You have far more crime than we do, especially violent crime.

...

The fangs are already showing and your the one that can't see them my blind little friend.
Your precious sin loving Eden is about to self-destruct and my pointing this out hasn't caused or contributed to this one bit.
If anything it's the blind followers of the blind like yourself that have over the years lent their power and influence to these rabid dogs of war through your cowardice and conformity on the wide heavy trodden path that leads to your mutual destruction.
You have no idea what you've done.
The day of the Lord is at hand.

Don't blame the mailman for delivering the news.

Who would Jesus bomb? :eek:

The scariest part of this run-up to a new, wider war is that Israel has its finger on the trigger, and the U.S. has put itself in a position where it must unconditionally back up Israel. Ehud Olmert and Dan Halutz, two guys that most people couldn't identify, will make the decisions that control our destinies. How do you like that, Mr. and Mrs. America?

Sam,
Who would Jesus bomb?

I don't know who he would bomb, but I know who would kill him today, the same Islamic terrorist that you defend daily, after all he is a Jew.

Sam,


I don't know who he would bomb, but I know who would kill him today, the same Islamic terrorist that you defend daily, after all he is a Jew.

hilarious.:rolleyes:
You realise he would be a Middle Eastern "raghead" don't you?

Your deffinition not mine.

...

hello visitor,

I hope you had a good weekend

What are you going on about??? Sam was only (IMO) having fujn at the expense of people who call people from the ME ragheads. sam does not call people rag heads but other people on this forum do.

Please remember that it is the Jews who rejected jesus(PBUH) not the muslims.

I do find it funny how Christians (after ww2 and genereally speaking) side with jews against muslims, when jews rejected Jesus and Muslims regard him as the messiah. perhaps Christians and Muslims shoudl join forces and try to educate the jews on their mis-conceptions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
take care
zak

Ahhh my dear Hype,

You hate the US for the way we treat the poor/minority/whatever group you feel sorry for- yet you support a country that kills women when they are raped.
Yes Europe and the US had similar cruel punishments (various witch trials, the Inquisition, etc..etc..) but that was 400+ years ago... (ok 350+ for the witch trials..). Let us know when Iran and the rest of the Middle East come to enlightenment.

Sam,

As a woman, please tell us how you support a country that encourages the stoning of women who have been raped.

Ahhh my dear Hype,

Sam,

As a woman, please tell us how you support a country that encourages the stoning of women who have been raped.

Hmm lets see, as compared to one that kills children (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/1466) for "collective punishment (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/1676)"? or scatters cluster bombs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6065574.stm) for them to "find"? Or systematically (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14799.htm) starves people (http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2225)? Or throws children into prison (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=4970)? Or thinks a nuclear strike is justified?

Thats a tough one.

...

Sam was only (IMO) having fujn at the expense of people who call people from the ME ragheads. sam does not call people rag heads....

No, Sam doesn't do that. But she denigrates America, Israel, Americans and Israelis at every single opportunity that she/he possibly can!

I don't see much difference in the two attitudes, do you? Some hate Middle Easterners and Arabs and Muslims; Sam hates Americans, Israelis and Jews. Do you see a difference?

Baron Max

....The downside is antiquated Russian air-defense systems can not tell sub launched ICBMs carrying nukes from the conventional warheads and the trajectory to Iran brings it close enough to Russian airspace, they will go into an automated nuclear strike on America even though we were only targeting Narantz in Iran....I had not thought of this problem. Thanks for bringing it up. I do not know how real this danger is, and the probably seems low, especially if the "hot line" between DC and Moscow is continuously manned and "up" AND Putin trusts Bush etc. (He lies a lot so I doubt that.); however, there is even lower probably that any of that “hot line” stuff could be done in time.

I had already considered the "Fallout on Russia" problem which is serious even it only the target supplies a radioactive dust cloud. (I was in Greece when Chernoble's dust cloud was dusting us. It is a very disturbing experience as I fully understood the risk and could do nothing about it*, not even learn how serious it was as I can not speak Greek.) I am sure that "post Chernoble," the Russians are very sensitive and concerned about any Israeli action that may be sending radioactive dust on them. I hope they have told Israel not to do it, or Tel Aviv will get at least equal dusting or worse.

Also as the Persian gulf is the most critical body of water in the world, I am quite sure the US Navy tracks** every sub in it 24/7. Israel can only make a sub-launched strike with the US's OK. - There is no ducking this fact, later with US State Department putting out the statement: "We regret this Israeli act and call on all sides for restraint.“ etc.
----------------------------------
*Not quite true: I ate about a 1/4 pound of salt (for the "old iodine" in it) and drank enoumous quantities of bottled water every day in an effort to flush out any I131. I also only ate canned food.
**30 years ago US was tracking everything (including schools of fish etc) passing between Norway and Iceland etc. I forget the name of the network of acoustic sensor on the bottom, but think it still is in use, and now used for biological research etc. as well as sub tracking.

No, Sam doesn't do that. But she denigrates America, Israel, Americans and Israelis at every single opportunity that she/he possibly can!

I don't see much difference in the two attitudes, do you? Some hate Middle Easterners and Arabs and Muslims; Sam hates Americans, Israelis and Jews. Do you see a difference?

Baron Max

Yes I admire those Americans and Israelis who recognise how the policies of their governments are an excuse for murder and oppression.

Which is why, as far as possible, I use American opinions to discuss the US and Israeli opinions to discuss Israel.

What I am discussing here is what the right thinking people of US and Israel are saying.

Hats off to the courage and convictions of those people.

Hmm lets see, as compared to one that kills children (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/1466) for "collective punishment (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/1676)"? or scatters cluster bombs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6065574.stm) for them to "find"? Or systematically (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14799.htm) starves people (http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2225)? Or throws children into prison (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=4970)? Or thinks a nuclear strike is justified?

Thats a tough one.

you haven't answered the question, which was about Iran, not about Israel or "Palestine"

If Israel starts a nuclear war with Iran, I am in support an utter annihilation of the Jewish state in retaliation.

Despite the fact that it would destroy some of the most priceless historical sites in all the world.

do you mean you would be OK with Israel's total destruction if this alleged plan happens?

If Israel starts a nuclear war with Iran, I am in support an utter annihilation of the Jewish state in retaliation.

Despite the fact that it would destroy some of the most priceless historical sites in all the world.

:confused:

do you mean you would be OK with Israel's total destruction if this alleged plan happens?

What???? What the fuck is this??!! I didn't say anything like that, how the hell did my name get put on such a post??

What the fuck did you do, otheadp??? Explain yourself or I'm going to write the moderators about this ASAP!!!

Baron Max

you haven't answered the question, which was about Iran, not about Israel or "Palestine"

Thats because being against a nuclear strike does not qualify as being for a Holocaust denier.

What???? What the fuck is this??!! I didn't say anything like that, how the hell did my name get put on such a post??

What the fuck did you do, otheadp??? Explain yourself or I'm going to write the moderators about this ASAP!!!

Baron Max

relax dear baron:)

...What the fuck did you do, otheadp??? Explain yourself or I'm going to write the moderators about this ASAP!!! Baron MaxI too was distrubed to see the same text quoted as if from you. I went back, all the way to post 20 and found that Prince_James did make that post, not you. I plan to join you in a very strong protest and see no reason for you to be calm about it as Preditor_190 sugests. I will not immediately* hit the "report" button, but feel free to site this post, giving my POV on such gross miss representation.
-----------------------------
*I give some time for a explaination by otheadp as to how this is not intentional miss quote of you by alternating Prince James's post 20 to make it appear to come from you.

I too was distrubed to see the same text quoted as if from you. I went back, all the way to post 20 and found that Prince_James did make that post, not you. I plan to join you in a very strong protest and see no reason for you to be calm about it as Preditor_190 sugests. I will not immediately* hit the "report" button, but feel free to site this post, giving my POV on such gross miss representation.
-----------------------------
*I give some time for a explaination by otheadp as to how this is not intentional miss quote of you by alternating Prince James's post 20 to make it appear to come from you.

Why is Prince James' post any more disturbing than this?

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1146246&postcount=243

C'mon, Spider, think just a little bit. If I were the President of the United States, do you really think that there'd be such a thing as Iraq left intact? Do you really think that Afghanistan would be anything but a smoking hole in the ground?

And all of our soldiers would have been returned to their homes in, oh, say, two weeks at the most! ...and probably without any casualties, too.

Baron Max

Does being Iraqi/Iranian/Afghani/Israeli make any difference to the sentiment expressed?

Sam,

You didnt answer the question. I didnt ask about your support of US actions I asked about your support of Irans. So once again, as a woman how can you support a country that murders women who have been raped?

Sam,

You didnt answer the question. I didnt ask about your support of US actions I asked about your support of Irans. So once again, as a woman how can you support a country that murders women who have been raped?

Because there are women in that country. And children. Lots and lots of innocent people. The government does not define the people. Laws can be changed but lives cannot be returned.

What???? What the fuck is this??!! I didn't say anything like that, how the hell did my name get put on such a post??

What the fuck did you do, otheadp??? Explain yourself or I'm going to write the moderators about this ASAP!!!

Baron Max

Sorry about that.
I did a manual quote and for some reason thought it was you who wrote it... but it looks like Prince_James did... so Prince James, could you please answer my previous post?

Because there are women in that country. And children. Lots and lots of innocent people. The government does not define the people. Laws can be changed but lives cannot be returned.

so what are you against?
- a nuke on Teheran
- a nuke on the remote & isolated nuke factories in Iran
- a conventional attack on the remote & isolated nuke factories in Iran
- a "velvet" bloodless revolution in Iran to depose of the theocracy
- regime change in Iran "by any means necessary"

you keep replying as if people talk about the 1st option. they don't. calm down.

I'm against killing innocent people for political or financial gain.:(

that's a very nice statement but you aren't really answering anything. be more specific please, if you don't mind :rolleyes:

that's a very nice statement but you aren't really answering anything. be more specific please, if you don't mind :rolleyes:

I don't see any difference with both sides pointing fingers at each other saying they want to kill me. Whoever starts it, it will be war. And innocent people will die.

you don't come off as a pacifist from all of your posts on Sci, but in your last few, you did. i think you're just avoiding the questions... no transformation there

you don't come off as a pacifist from all of your posts on Sci, but in your last few, you did. i think you're just avoiding the questions... no transformation there

Avoiding what questions?

Israel declared it will attack Irans nuclear sites with missiles. Iran says it will only use nuclear weapons if threatened.

Its like India and Pak. Give each one a nuclear weapon and there will be no Iraq.

We had wars with Pakistan all the time till we went nuclear. Now we talk peace, even in the midst of terrorist attacks.

And I am a pacifist. Unfortunately, like too many people here I cannot be objective about people dying by the hundreds and considering it par for the course.

So once again, as a woman how can you support a country that murders women who have been raped?

Avoiding what questions?
these ones:
so what are you against?
- a nuke on Teheran
- a nuke on the remote & isolated nuke factories in Iran
- a conventional attack on the remote & isolated nuke factories in Iran
- a "velvet" bloodless revolution in Iran to depose of the theocracy
- regime change in Iran "by any means necessary"

and the one from the post above. you answered it by saying "there are women and children in Iran, and i'm against hurting women and children"... which was an answer to a completely different question that nobody asked

these ones:
so what are you against?
- a nuke on Teheran
- a nuke on the remote & isolated nuke factories in Iran
- a conventional attack on the remote & isolated nuke factories in Iran
- a "velvet" bloodless revolution in Iran to depose of the theocracy
- regime change in Iran "by any means necessary"

All of them. Iran is a sovereign state just like Saudi Arabia.

Why not a regime change in Saudi Arabia? All terrorists are trained and funded from there.

Saudi is a whole separate discussion and i dont wanna mix it with the current one.

you said you're against "a 'velvet' bloodless revolution in Iran to depose of the theocracy". so even if not a single drop of blood is shed, you won't like to see the Mullahs go. why not replace that awful regime with a friendly regime? at least one that is friendly to its own people... ?

you are basically saying you're supporting everything they're doing.

these ones:


and the one from the post above. you answered it by saying "there are women and children in Iran, and i'm against hurting women and children"... which was an answer to a completely different question that nobody asked

Well same way you support one that murders children by the hundreds. Because its not the government policy or the laws that you support but the lives of the people who live there and choose those laws for themselves.

Same way the Americans ignore Saudi Arabia's much worse human rights records because it means they can get oil at less than 3 dollars a gallon and maintain their expensive lifestyles.

Same way the Americans and Israelis ignored the massive killings of Kurds by Saddam because "it suited their interests"

At least I am gaining nothing here by supporting the right of the Irani people to choose the legal systems they wish to live under. If they don't like it they will reform them. Killing them all is not an answer to their choice of regime or law.

If that is such a significant factor for you, please start by first taking care of Saudi Arabia or Rwanda or Darfur where the situation is much worse, or even Palestine.

And if its just an excuse to feather your nests or maintain your SUV lifestyle, stop pointing fingers and admit that you are shallow and selfish.

Saudi is a whole separate discussion and i dont wanna mix it with the current one.

you said you're against "a 'velvet' bloodless revolution in Iran to depose of the theocracy". so even if not a single drop of blood is shed, you won't like to see the Mullahs go. why not replace that awful regime with a friendly regime? at least one that is friendly to its own people... ?

you are basically saying you're supporting everything they're doing.

Do you understand what a sovereign state is?

Do you support Hitler telling everyone else what they should live like?

Or Stalin? Or Mao? Or Pol Pot?

What makes you the authority on how other people should live their lives?

If you don't agree with their religion or politics, BOYCOTT them. Don't do ANY BUSINESS with them. If they need your business they will immediately change.

Bloodless Coup. Are you willing to sacrifice your lifestyle to do the right thing?

Sam

Same way the Americans and Israelis ignored the massive killings of Kurds by Saddam because "it suited their interests"

And now you castigate the U.S.because it finally did something?

Sam
If you don't agree with their religion or politics, BOYCOTT them. Don't do ANY BUSINESS with them. If they need your business they will immediately change.

How do you boycott Islamic terrorist?

Sam

And now you castigate the U.S.because it finally did something?

Killing people is a solution only for criminals.

How many more will be kiled by the terrorist, while you are waiting for you boycott to work?

Sam


How do you boycott Islamic terrorist?

Sorry, that one is a consequence, not a cause.

So tell it to the Terrorist.

How many more will be kiled by the terrorist, while you are waiting for you boycott to work?

Compared to how many killed by the US?

Not as many as the terrorist are killing.

So tell it to the Terrorist.

I am.

Not as many as the terrorist are killing.

There is no difference between the two. Both are pretending to aim at each other, but killing mostly the innocent people. Both are using each other as an excuse to kill more and more people. They support each other.

The terrorist are killing more Iraqi's that the U.S. ever did, and for proof all you have to do is read who is dieing, and how they are dieing in the News Outlets, Car Bombings, Blowing up Mosque, kidnapping and torturing and beheading people just looking for a job, yes there goes Sam, excusing the terrorist with her Moral Relativism.

Sam
I am.

Really? I don't see it in your post.

The terrorist are killing more Iraqi's that the U.S. ever did, and for proof all you have to do is read who is dieing, and how they are dieing in the News Outlets, Car Bombings, Blowing up Mosque, kidnapping and torturing and beheading people just looking for a job, yes there goes Sam, excusing the terrorist with her Moral Relativism.

If the US had not gone blundering in as they have done before in Vietnam and Somalia there would be no killing. Far more people are dying because of the US intervention than ever died under Saddam. As they did in Vietnam and as they are doing in Somalia.

Sam


Really? I don't see it in your post.

The US creates the terrorists. It is the mother lode. If the US finally realises the folly of its tactics and that all people do not think like Westerners, there will be no more terrorism.

Israel too is suffering only because it is following US tactics. The Jews in all their history have never been famous as mass murderers.

Do you understand what a sovereign state is?

Do you support Hitler telling everyone else what they should live like?

Or Stalin? Or Mao? Or Pol Pot?

If you don't agree with their religion or politics, BOYCOTT them. Don't do ANY BUSINESS with them. If they need your business they will immediately change.



Sam I agree with everything you say here except

Bloodless Coup. Are you willing to sacrifice your lifestyle to do the right thing?

If enough of the population is against a regime and they are wise enough to see it then a velvet revolution is possible without sacrificing "lifestyle" (not sure that's the best term but I know what you are driving at) except of course the lifestyle of the despots who may be wise enough to get out before their blood is spilled. It is not the normal way of things as despotic regimes hate to relinquish power but history has shown us it is possible.

PS love the new avatar:D

Sam

If the US had not gone blundering in as they have done before in Vietnam and Somalia there would be no killing. Far more people are dying because of the US intervention than ever died under Saddam. As they did in Vietnam and as they are doing in Somalia.

No Killing going on, Sam are you blind? or just prejudice? This is the first page of 65,400 stories on the killing that went on in Iraq under Saddam.

USAID: Assistance for Iraq - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves
Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported. ... whose remains are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq." ...
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html

Iraq's Legacy of Terror - Mass Graves
are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq.” If these numbers prove accurate, ... filtering out of Iraq. Saddam’s Baathist loyalists and ...
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

Shia News | Articles: Politics | Horrors of Iraq's mass graves
Freshly dug mass graves bare witness to the plight of the Shias. They have been subjected to a systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder. Iraq has ...
http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php

Iraqi Sites Guide - The Mass Graves
The Massgraves, Victims of Saddam's Regime. webmaster@massgraves.info ...
http://www.9neesan.com/massgraves/

Mass Graves of Iraq: Uncovering Atrocities
The discovery of mass graves in Iraq graphically testifies to the brutality of Saddam Hussein’s regime and the challenges of building a more pluralistic and ...
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/27000.htm
CNN.com - Mass grave unearthed in Iraq - Oct 13, 2004
"Unlike bodies that you've seen in many mass graves -- they look like cordwood ... believe about 300000 people were killed during Saddam's 24-year rule, ...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/
Uncovering Iraq's Horrors in Desert Graves - New York Times
ON THE EDGE OF THE ASH SHAM DESERT, Iraq, June 3 — Among experts on the American-led team investigating Iraq's mass graves, the skeletal remains lying ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/05/world/middleeast/05grave.html?ex=1307160000&en=f61682fbc3536b01&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Babies found in Iraqi mass grave
Mr Kehoe said that work to uncover graves around Iraq, where about 300000 people are thought to have been killed during Saddam Hussein's regime, ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3738368.stm
PM admits graves claim 'untrue' | Special Reports | Guardian ...
In that publication - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves produced by USAID ... by Downing Street in response to the arrest of Saddam Hussein and posted on ...
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1263901,00.html
BostonHerald.com - Local & Regional: My life under ’butcher’: Ex ...
Anwart Diab, 67, of Natick was born in Iraq and lived in Baghdad most of his ... had seen enough of Saddam Hussein’s beheadings, executions and mass graves.
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=174498
Abu Ghraib prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1 Under Saddam Hussein. 1.1 Known mass-graves related to Abu Ghraib ... See Human rights in Saddam's Iraq for a discussion of the context of these events. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison
The Blog | Cenk Uygur: Where Were the Mass Graves? | The ...
There were mass graves. That up to 300000 people were killed during his reign. ... It brought up that we were backing Saddam (sort of) during the Iraq-Iran ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/where-were-the-mass-grave_b_37426.html
Mass graves searched for Saddam trial - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com
Investigators searched mass graves of victim’s of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in an attempt to gather evidence linking Hussein to an estimated ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13562453/
The Radio Equalizer: Brian Maloney: Saddam's Mass Graves, Young ...
Saddam's Mass Graves, Young Turks, Air America Radio. NO GRAVES? ... But there's at least that amount of people killed every two days in Iraq now. ...
http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2007/01/saddams-mass-graves-young-turks-air.html
Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves
Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves. Since the Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported. By mid-January, 2004, ...
http://www.iraqcoalition.org/pressreleases/20040224_mass_graves.html
Page: 1 2 3 next

Sam I agree with everything you say here except



If enough of the population is against a regime and they are wise enough to see it then a velvet revolution is possible without sacrificing "lifestyle" (not sure that's the best term but I know what you are driving at) except of course the lifestyle of the despots who may be wise enough to get out before their blood is spilled. It is not the normal way of things as despotic regimes hate to relinquish power but history has shown us it is possible.

The main idea here is not to give power to fundamentalists. When religion enters the equation, logic becomes fuzzy.

The people of Iran themselves have shown a dissatisfaction with the present regime and will probably change it given the chance.

But when Israel makes statements of nuclear strikes, who gets empowered, the moderates who will not fight back, or the extremists who will strike first?

We've see it all in India. It was only Gandhi who could gain us freedom, others would have us embroiled in war with the British as they had done since 1857.

Sam
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblahblahblah

All conveniently ignored by the US all these years.

Weapons: Made in the USA, the torch of Truth Justice and Liberty for the World.:rolleyes:

The main idea here is not to give power to fundamentalists. When religion enters the equation, logic becomes fuzzy.

The people of Iran themselves have shown a dissatisfaction with the present regime and will probably change it given the chance.

But when Israel makes statements of nuclear strikes, who gets empowered, the moderates who will not fight back, or the extremists who will strike first?

OK my bad coming into the thread late and without time to read it all I was only refering to events inside Iran and agreed the Iranians will and should sort it out themselves. Threatening statements from the outside only prolong the inevitable on the inside.

OK my bad coming into the thread late and without time to read it all I was only refering to events inside Iran and agreed the Iranians will and should sort it out themselves. Threatening statements from the outside only prolong the inevitable on the inside.

Yes, even people in supposedly fundamentalist places like Saudi Arabia are not fundamentalists. It is the politicians and clerics who impose power on the people to control them. Most of the people themselves couldn't care less what other people did so as long as they were left in peace. But of course, once you start killing their families and children, they do not care about anything except that you are a foreigner who has entered their country and is killing their people. Then they turn to everything that rejects the foreigners and the most important change is a reversion to extreme fundamentalism because that gives them a justification for revenge.

There is no need to even go as far as that the simple supposed threat from the outside can be used as a tool for solidifying power by Bush the Mullahs or any other despot..

There is no need to even go as far as that the simple supposed threat from the outside can be used as a tool for solidifying power by Bush the Mullahs or any other despot..

Correct. Which is why the War on Terror has created more terrorists than it has caught.

And why the British, with their low key investigations are more successful at it than the Americans.

Sam,
Weapons: Made in the USA, the torch of Truth Justice and Liberty for the World.

Please Identify the weapons that were in Saddams war machine that are U.S. made, as from what I have seen of his weapons they were of Soviet and French, and Chinese manufacture, please Identify Type and name of U.S. weapons?


300,000 Killed in his own Country, That is Saddams legacy, 1 million Iranian casualties, 100,000 0f his own troops, yes Sam no one was dieing under Saddam.

Sam,


Please Identify the weapons that were in Saddams war machine that are U.S. made, as from what I have seen of his weapons they were of Soviet and French, and Chinese manufacture, please Identify Type and name of U.S. weapons?


300,000 Killed in his own Country, That is Saddams legacy, 1 million Iranian casualties, 100,000 0f his own troops, yes Sam no one was dieing under Saddam.

Living with him, were you?
Made in the USA:
Part One (http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/made-in-the-usa/3025/)
Part Two (http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/made-in-the-usa-part-ii/3020/)
Part Three (http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/made-in-the-usa-part-iii-the-dishonor-roll/2889/)

What I see is dual purpose exports, that if improperly applied, and do you think that Saddam might improperly apply them? no weapon systems?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/13/134858.shtml

Iraq's best jet fighter was purchased from France. The Mirage F-1 is considered to be a state of the art strike-fighter capable of launching advanced missiles. France has sold over 700 Mirage F-1 fighters to over 11 nations. Iraq is estimated to have 60 F-1 fighters in its air force inventory.

The F-1 is capable of flying over twice the speed of sound and is normally armed with air-to-air missiles and twin 30 mm cannons. However, the F-1 also has a deadly strike capability.

A Mirage F-1 was used by Iraq to launch two Exocet anti-ship missiles that struck the USS Stark before the Gulf War, killing over 40 American sailors.

The F-1 also appeared recently in a short video shown by U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations. The Iraqi F-1 is shown testing a biological/chemical spraying system at low altitude. The F-1 video is a telling example of Iraq's illegal biological and chemical weapons program.

Saddam purchased a large number of French-made Aerospatiale and Eurocopter helicopters for his army. Both the Aerospatiale and Eurocopter systems can deploy chemical weapons.

The Iraqi army is also well-equipped with what is considered to be the best artillery weapon in the world, the French-made 155 mm howitzer. The Iraqi army used its 155 mm guns during its war with Iran to fire chemical weapons as well as a large array of conventional munitions.

The biggest weapons supplier to Iraq is Russia. Iraq reportedly still owes Russia over $4 billion for arms purchases in the past 20 years. Obviously, if Saddam Hussein is removed from power, Russia is not likely to be paid for the past weapons sales.

The vast majority of Iraq's air force consists of Russian-made jet fighters. Iraq has nearly 200 Russian-made jet fighters including MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-25, Sukhoi SU-22 and Sukhoi SU-25 interceptors.

The Iraqi army is equipped with hundreds of Russian artillery pieces, rocket launchers, BMP armored vehicles, T-55 and T-72 tanks and Scud missiles. Most of Iraq's chemical arsenal, estimated at around 200 tons of nerve gas and mustard gas, is fired from Russian-made weapons.

For example, Iraq recently modified a MiG-21 jet fighter to act as a radio-controlled chemical sprayer. In addition, most of Iraq's air-delivered chemical weapons deployed in its long war with Iran came from the belly of MiG-21 and MiG-23 fighter jets.

Most of the estimated 100 tons of nerve gas that remains in Saddam's arsenal is thought to be stored in Russia-made bombs designed for the MiG fighters.

In addition, U.N. inspectors recently discovered empty rocket warheads designed to deploy nerve gas. The rocket warheads in question are part of a Russian missile system sold to Iraq.

One smoking-gun photograph that Colin Powell released to the U.N. was of the Iraqi chemical weapons compound at Al-Musayyib. The photos showed the Iraqis frantically removing chemical weapons from the facility. The area was later bulldozed and the topsoil removed to clear the area of any trace of chemical weapons.

The telltale sign that Al-Musayyib is a chemical weapons facility was the presence of Russian-made chemical decontamination vehicles that arrived to assist technicians dressed in Hazmat suits. It is only logical to conclude that the Iraqis were concerned for their safety, because one does not put on a Hazmat suit in the desert for the fun of it.

Need more?

Think? How about knew?

Gejdenson also told his subcommittee that the State Department refused to impose controls on the export of biological toxins to Iraq until 1989, even though it knew Hussein used chemical weapons against Iranian troops during the Iran-Iraq war as well as Kurdish civilians.

Did you even navigate this list?
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/made-in-the-usa-part-iii-the-dishonor-roll/2889/
Index of American Companies (and international companies with U.S. affiliates):

AT&T
AL HADDAD ENTERPRISES, INC.
ALCOLAC INTERNATIONAL
AMERICAN TYPE CULTURE COLLECTION
ASSOCIATED INSTRUMENTS DISTRIBUTORS, INC.
AXEL ELECTRONICS
BANCA NAZIONALE DEL LAVORO
BECHTEL GROUP
BREEZEVALE, INC.
CANBERRA INDUSTRIES
CARL SCHENCK AG
CARL ZEISS
CATERPILLAR, INC.
COMTEC INTERNATIONAL, INC.
CONSARC
COPELAND INTERNATIONAL, INC.
DATA GENERAL CORP
DEKTOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY, INC.
DOW CHEMICAL
DRESSER CONSTRUCTION AND EQUIPMENT
DUPONT
E G & G PRINCETON APPLIED RESEARCH
EASTMAN KODAK CO.
ELECTRONICS ASSOCIATES, INC.
ENTRADE INTERNATIONAL, LTD.
EVAPCO
FINNIGAN MAT US
FOXBORO COMPANY
GERBER SYSTEMS TECHNOLOGY
GORMAN-RUPP
HARDINGE BROTHERS
HEWLETT-PACKARD
HIPOTRONICS
HONEYWELL
HUGHES HELICOPTER
IBM
INTERNATIONAL IMAGING SYSTEMS
INTERNATIONAL SIGNAL AND CONTROL
IONICS
KENNAMETAL, INC.
LEYBOLD VACUUM SYSTEMS
LINCOLN ELECTRIC CO.
LITTON INDUSTRIES
LUMMUS CREST, INC.
MBB HELICOPTER CORP.
MACK TRUCKS, INC.
MAHO AG
MATRIX CHURCHILL CORP.
McNEIL AKRON, INC.
MEMPHIS INTERNATIONAL, INC.
MILLER ELECTRIC
MOUSE MASTER
NCR CORPORATION
NRM CORP.
NORWALK CO.
NU KRAFT MERCANTILE CORP.
PERKIN-ELMER CORP.
PHILLIPS EXPORT
POSI SEAL, INC.
PRESRAY CORP.
PURE AIRE
REDLAKE IMAGING CORP.
REXON TECHNOLOGY CORP.
ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL CORP.
ROTEC INDUSTRIES, INC.
SACKMAN ASSOCIATES
SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA
SCIENTIFIC DESIGN CO., INC.
SEMETEX
SERVAAS, INC.
SIEMENS CORP.
SIP CORP.
SPECTRAL DATA CORP.
SPECTRA PHYSICS
SPERRY CORP.
SULLAIRE CORP.
SWISSCO MANAGEMENT GROUP, INC.
TECHNICAL COMMUNICATIONS CORP.
TEKTRONIX
TELEDYNE WAH CHANG
THERMO JARRELL ASH CORP.
TI COATING
TRADING AND INVESTMENT CORP.
UNION CARBIDE
UNISYS CORP.
VEECO INSTRUMENTS, INC.
WILD MAGNAVOX SATELLITE SURVEY
WILTRON
XYZ OPTIONS, INC.
YORK INTERNATIONAL CORP.
ZETA LABORATORIES

Index of U.S. Government Agencies:

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
U.S. NUCLEAR WEAPONS LABORATORIES

So you still have not shown that there were weapon systems sold, and many of those who sold thing with out clearance were prosecuted for doing so. Ink for pens is considered a chemical, and with a little tweaking can be made into a nasty nerve agent.

Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement
By: John King, March 2003

What follows is an accurate chronology of United States involvement in the arming of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war 1980-88. It is a powerful indictment of the president Bush administration attempt to sell war as a component of his war on terrorism. It reveals US ambitions in Iraq to be just another chapter in the attempt to regain a foothold in the Mideast following the fall of the Shah of Iran.

Arming Iraq and the Path to War
A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates.

September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8]

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. [1]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. [9]

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. [4]

November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. [1] & [15]

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. [14]

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16]

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. [1]

Donald Rumsfeld -Reagan's Envoy- provided Iraq with chemical & biological weapons

December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17]

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1]

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8]

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. [6] & [13]

August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. [8]

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. [8]

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. [7]

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." [15]

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1]

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. [12]

August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. [8]

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. [11]

August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. [14]

June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." [5]

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. [18]

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. [7]

August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. [4]

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.


References:

1. Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2. Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3. Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4. Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5. ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
6. Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7. Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
8. Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9. Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10. Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11. Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12. Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13. Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14. Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15. Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
16. Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17. Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18. Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19. Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
20. Case Study: The Anfal Campaign.

- N

None so blind...
http://www.bendib.com/newones/2003/november/small/11-13-WMDs-Where.jpg

http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/posters/no_wmds.jpg

None so blind...
http://www.bendib.com/newones/2003/november/small/11-13-WMDs-Where.jpg

http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/posters/no_wmds.jpg"Protest Warrior" is a rightwing group that has signs like "Halliburton Defense Committee" that try to blend into demonstrations against Bush and the war. They are funded by anti abortion groups, allies of the Bush administration and fundamentalist churches.
Chemical weapons aren't Weapons of Mass Destruction, cruel as they are. Everyone has chemical weapons. Protest Warrior, Bush & Cheney's favorite flunkies, are wrong again.

"Protest Warrior" is a rightwing group that has signs like "Halliburton Defense Committee" that try to blend into demonstrations against Bush and the war. They are funded by anti abortion groups, allies of the Bush administration and fundamentalist churches.
Chemical weapons aren't Weapons of Mass Destruction, cruel as they are. Everyone has chemical weapons. Protest Warrior, Bush & Cheney's favorite flunkies, are wrong again.

What is so ironic is that could easily be Iraq NOW, under the US "rule"

So they are protecting the world from WMDs are they?:rolleyes:

What is so ironic is that could easily be Iraq NOW, under the US "rule"

So they are protecting the world from WMDs are they?:rolleyes:Many more dead civilians in Iraq now than under any time under Hussein, exempting the bloody Iran/Iraq war, where we as Americans stood firmly on the Baathist Party side with Mighty Saddam. Incidentally the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds were manufactured in Delaware in the early 80's. Caught that tidbit on NPR.

Site proof, not that I doubt your word but I do.

Site proof, not that I doubt your word but I do.Check out NPR, however that is done, if you mean the Delaware chemical weapons. It's 'cite' not 'site'. The Iraqis purchased US weapons and other goodies against Iran.

Still you have not given a site to prove the information, it isn't my job to do your research.

ps: I was asking for the site that the information was located at.

Still you have not given a site to prove the information, it isn't my job to do your research.

ps: I was asking for the site that the information was located at.www.npr.com??

NPR Sucks!NPR News has a distinctly liberal and progressive agenda.
www.nprsucks.com/

I found nothing on the site to back up you statements.

NPR Sucks!NPR News has a distinctly liberal and progressive agenda.
www.nprsucks.com/Still legal in the US, as of now.

NPR Sucks!NPR News has a distinctly liberal and progressive agenda.
www.nprsucks.com/

Here, this is more along your line of thinking
http://conservative-nation.blogspot.com/2006/06/wmds-found-in-iraq.html

I found nothing on the site to back up you statements.So I didn't hear that program? Keep looking, fund/find me an assistant or adapt.

I found nothing on the site to back up you statements.You already checked out every radio program they've had on in the last couple years?! I'm LEAGUES behind you in computer skills.

No, it is your responsibility to provide the site, as I said I am not paid to do research for you, this is a debating site, you back up your own points, on your own, it isn't my responsibility, it yours, you using your own little fingers on the key board.

ps: if I can do it so can you.

No, it is your responsibility to provide the site, as I said I am not paid to do research for you, this is a debating site, you back up your own points, on your own, it isn't my responsibility, it yours, you using your own little fingers on the key board.

ps: if I can do it so can you.So I post a link that you declare is too left, then my source is dismissed as was NPR. I'll do my best. This is not a debate club though BR. It's a Discussion Board. If you are hung up on my opinions search yourself. I don't need a link to express my opinions that have formed over the years from reading, talking to others and life experience.
If you can I can? I have a building to clean by 11:30pm. I can't spend hours and hours searching sites to prove a point to someone that dismisses all but rightwing links. Do you really think I have those skills and choose not to use them?! There are alot of views about every subject out there, you need to realize that.

It doesn't matter what you post, Genji, he'll just ignore it anyways. Hell, he still doesn't even accept the words from Bush himself, and his administration, that the WMD intelligence on Iraq was wrong, that there's no WMDs, and that they've called off the search!

- N

Here's some readin' to do:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29

"As part of its opening to Baghdad, the Reagan administration removed Iraq from the State Department terrorism list in February 1982, despite heated objections from Congress."

"When United Nations weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, they compiled long lists of chemicals, missile components, and computers from American suppliers, including such household names as Union Carbide and Honeywell, which were being used for military purposes."

"A 1994 investigation by the Senate Banking Committee turned up dozens of biological agents shipped to Iraq during the mid-'80s under license from the Commerce Department, including various strains of anthrax, subsequently identified by the Pentagon as a key component of the Iraqi biological warfare program. The Commerce Department also approved the export of insecticides to Iraq, despite widespread suspicions that they were being used for chemical warfare."

"Although U.S. export controls to Iraq were tightened up in the late 1980s, there were still many loopholes. In December 1988, Dow Chemical sold $1.5 million of pesticides to Iraq, despite U.S. government concerns that they could be used as chemical warfare agents. An Export-Import Bank official reported in a memorandum that he could find "no reason" to stop the sale, despite evidence that the pesticides were "highly toxic" to humans and would cause death "from asphyxiation."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riegle_Report

"Records provided by the supplier show that, from at least 1985 through 1989, the period for which records were available, the United States government approved for sale to Iraq quantities of potentially lethal biological agents that could have been cultured or grown in large volume in an Iraqi biological warfare program. These exported materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

- N

Gengi

So I post a link that you declare is too left, then my source is dismissed as was NPR. I'll do my best. This is not a debate club though BR. It's a Discussion Board.

Complain to Neocon,

Yes it is a discussion board and it is still your responsibility to do your own research, if you want I will accept $20.00 a hour to do your research for you, payable in advance.

Gengi



Complain to Neocon,

Yes it is a discussion board and it is still your responsibility to do your own research, if you want I will accept $20.00 a hour to do your research for you, payable in advance.Unacceptable. If you demand a link to a source for every comment and opinion you will do the research free of charge. Thank You

doublepost

Gengi



Complain to Neocon,

Yes it is a discussion board and it is still your responsibility to do your own research, if you want I will accept $20.00 a hour to do your research for you, payable in advance.If you demand a source for every thought, opinion and comment you will do the research free of charge. Thank You

Chemical weapons aren't Weapons of Mass Destruction, cruel as they are

Sorry, but Chemcial weapons are considerded WMDs. Nerve agents are a prime example. Perhaps you are thinking of tear gas?

WHOA, MIND TRIP. I read TheVisitor's post, and seeing the avatar, the V, and some letters, thought it was ATHELWULFIE PREDTICTING NUCLEAR DOOM AND GLOOM.

I got all wierded out. Up was down, down was up, Athelwulf was a zionist....

Dear Prince James,
Would you care to explain the following quote? I did not expect such a response from you, one who expresses such eagerness at dropping the bomb on the Koreans.

If Israel starts a nuclear war with Iran, I am in support an utter annihilation of the Jewish state in retaliation.

Despite the fact that it would destroy some of the most priceless historical sites in all the world.

Genji

If you demand a source for every thought, opinion and comment you will do the research free of charge. Thank You

You and the other anti Americans demand it of me, so I demand it back, and I do the research right back down to the articles, so unless you are admitting that you have less intelligence than I do, Do the research and post the site.

Dear Prince James,
Would you care to explain the following quote? I did not expect such a response from you, one who expresses such eagerness at dropping the bomb on the Koreans.
I was also somewhat taken aback by that statement. So what's up, PJ?

I agree that being the first to break the nuclear "taboo" would be a bad idea. I'm afraid once one nation uses one, even a baby bunker buster, all bets are off and we'll see them used again and again.

But wipe out Israel?