Israel cuts power to answer Gaza rockets!

Buffalo Roam

10-25-07, 10:12 PM

Nah, the kids don't suffer enough if Israel carpet bombs Gaza. See if they cut the power, the kids will die a slow agonizing death(alot more satisfying to them). No way to refigerate food, no way to keep babby formula from spoling, no way to adequately keep the new borns warm at night etc.

Well if the Palestinian Authority had spent the moneys that they received from the U.N. and the International Community for infrastructure, like power stations, instead of weapons to attack Israel, or to line their own bank accounts, they wouldn't be in the position that they are in now would they?

If they stopped sending Qusams into Israel from the Gaza, Fatah wouldn't be out of electrical power now would they?

If the Arabs hadn't went to war in 1948, there would be a Palestinian State right along side of Israel, and there never would have been a refugee problem, now would there be?

The Fatah is getting exactly what it deserves, and the Palestinian People of the Gaza are supporting Fatah, so they are getting the benefit of what they allowed to get control of their government, and the policies that the Fatah put into practice.

If you fight a war with out the proper infrastructure, and spend the aid money for weapons instead of infrastructure, prepare to suffer, and have your children suffer from your actions.

S.A.M.

10-25-07, 10:24 PM

Mr. G

10-25-07, 10:57 PM

Supporting an occupation? :spank:
Goa? Operation Vijay?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?

S.A.M.

10-25-07, 11:07 PM

Goa? Operation Vijay?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?

Goa? invaded by Portuguese? inhabited by Indians? The Inquisition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition

quadraphonics

10-25-07, 11:08 PM

This raises the question: Does collective punishment work on a society that believes that it's in the right ? .

Well, the Kassam attacks don't seem to be working, nor the usual military reprisals for them. So it seems both sides are still in search an effective collective punishment.

Mr. G

10-25-07, 11:32 PM

Goa? invaded by Portuguese? inhabited by Indians? The Inquisition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition
One man's occupation is another man's invasion is another man's habitation.

Cue the organist.

All Skate!

S.A.M.

10-25-07, 11:33 PM

One man's occupation is another man's invasion is another man's habitation.

Cue the organist.

All Skate!

Uh, indian inhabitants foreign colonial. Of course, our advantage is to always outbreed the buggers.

Baron Max

10-26-07, 07:56 AM

Uh, indian inhabitants foreign colonial. Of course, our advantage is to always outbreed the buggers.

Interesting strategy, Sam, ....just fuck so much that you don't have the energy or resources left to do anything for yourselves? How many products of that fucking strategy is now starving to death in the streets of India and Gaza, as well as elsewhere in the world?

Baron Max

Buffalo Roam

10-26-07, 08:45 AM

Actually they should just leave the kids out on the street then the IDF can come and break their arms and legs and stomp on their chests for fun. In case they feel the children haven't suffered enough from just starvation, that is.

Versus sending them into Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies, to break their arms, legs, burn, and rip open the chests of Israeli children for fun?

Mr.Spock

10-26-07, 09:22 AM

Hey, don't the Geneva Conventions forbid collective punishment?

and permits rocket attacks?

Ganymede

10-26-07, 10:34 AM

Well if the Palestinian Authority had spent the moneys that they received from the U.N. and the International Community for infrastructure, like power stations, instead of weapons to attack Israel, or to line their own bank accounts, they wouldn't be in the position that they are in now would they?

In order for Palestinians to build ANY infastructure they must get a Government permit from the Isralei Goverment. That's why so many refugee's are stuck in Gaza, because they can't build anything, not even a home to live in. That's why you allways see Israel using bulldozers to take down Palestinian homes. Because they built a home without a permit (Which is next to impossible for a palestinian to get)

If they stopped sending Qusams into Israel from the Gaza, Fatah wouldn't be out of electrical power now would they?

Ok, and if Americans would stop hanging nooses and burnning crosses and in peoples yard, people wouldn't classify you ALL as racists (That's your logic Buffalo, because if one person, or group does something. Then the entire population, even the children are to be condemed and responsible).

If the Arabs hadn't went to war in 1948, there would be a Palestinian State right along side of Israel, and there never would have been a refugee problem, now would there be?

And if the South would of laid down there weapons, then America wouldn't have lost 500,000 men in the Civil War. And the south wouldn't have suffered as much as it did. So it's the confedrates fault, and they deserved to suffer(By using your logic)

The Fatah is getting exactly what it deserves, and the Palestinian People of the Gaza are supporting Fatah, so they are getting the benefit of what they allowed to get control of their government, and the policies that the Fatah put into practice.

Historicaly the Isralei Government supported Hamas for years. So why wouldn't you expect the palestinians to develop an affinity for Hamas. You think killing Iraqi's is just. They think killing jews is just. So what's the difference?

If you fight a war with out the proper infrastructure, and spend the aid money for weapons instead of infrastructure, prepare to suffer, and have your children suffer from your actions.

Palestinians can't build infastructure without permits from the Isralei government. And by them controlling the resources is one of the many weapons they use to brutalize and humiliate the Palestinians.

Mr.Spock

10-26-07, 10:49 AM

Buffalo Roam

10-26-07, 01:15 PM

In order for Palestinians to build ANY infastructure they must get a Government permit from the Isralei Goverment. That's why so many refugee's are stuck in Gaza, because they can't build anything, not even a home to live in. That's why you allways see Israel using bulldozers to take down Palestinian homes. Because they built a home without a permit (Which is next to impossible for a palestinian to get)

I have never even heard that the Palestinians ever even tried to build something, not one Hospital, not one Sewage Treatment Plant, not one Factory to employ their people, I have seen the weapons, and the use of those weapons for decades, and have read about all the money that Yassar has in Swiss Bank Accounts, Now if Palestinians had tried to build some infrastructure, and the Israelis had denied the permits it would have been all over the News, especially if had been a Hospital, and the Anti-Semitics would have beat Israelis over the head with that forever.

Ok, and if Americans would stop hanging nooses and burnning crosses and in peoples yard, people wouldn't classify you ALL as racists (That's your logic Buffalo, because if one person, or group does something. Then the entire population, even the children are to be condemed and responsible).

And what does that have to do with this subject? And as for the logic of;

because if one person, or group does something. Then the entire population, even the children are to be condemned and responsible.

The Palestinians in the Gaza are supporting Hammas, they backed the over throw of the Elected Fatah Government, so it isn't just a few people in the Gaza, it is a majority, and they are continuing a war against Israel, and Israel has the right to not supply a enemy who is attacking them.

And if the South would of laid down there weapons, then America wouldn't have lost 500,000 men in the Civil War. And the south wouldn't have suffered as much as it did. So it's the confedrates fault, and they deserved to suffer(By using your logic)

You want to know something? yes it was the South was at Fault, and yes they deserved everything that happened to them for not ending slavery, and starting a war that they couldn't win.

I have a lot of sympathy for the South, my choice for Civil War Reenacting is as a Southerner, and there are many things that the South was right on, but in the end they were wrong on slavery, and it needed to end, and we fought a war to end it, and a much better America developed from this stand.

Historicaly the Isralei Government supported Hamas for years. So why wouldn't you expect the palestinians to develop an affinity for Hamas. You think killing Iraqi's is just. They think killing jews is just. So what's the difference?

The difference is that the Palestinians have stayed in a shit hole, fighting a war that they lost, for 59 years, and continue to kill their own children and Israeli children, and as for Israel supporting Hammers, all that proves is that Israelis can't trust anything a Palestinian, says, signs, or does, in the end the only thing that matters to a Palestinian is to Kill Israelis.

Palestinians can't build infastructure without permits from the Isralei government. And by them controlling the resources is one of the many weapons they use to brutalize and humiliate the Palestinians.

Again, I haven't ever heard of the Palestinians requesting permits to build a Hospital, or a Sewer Project, a Factory, or a Airport, and especially if a permit for a Hospital was requested, and the Israelis denied it there would be hell to pay in the Press, the U.N., and the Arab World, and it has never happened.

quadraphonics

10-26-07, 01:23 PM

And if the South would of laid down there weapons, then America wouldn't have lost 500,000 men in the Civil War. And the south wouldn't have suffered as much as it did. So it's the confedrates fault, and they deserved to suffer(By using your logic)

This isn't a very good argument, considering that the South WAS a bunch of evil racist slavers who chose to go to war to sustain an oppressive system, and so deserved suffering and humiliation.

Palestinians, as a polity, have consistently chosen confrontation and violence as their preferred means of dealing with Israelis. If they don't care to prevent indiscriminate attacks on random civilians originating from their territory, that's their choice. But don't expect me to get all weepy when said civilians don't want to provide them with utilities after that. Anyway, the alternative is for Israel to use planes and tanks to destroy any houses being used in Kassam attacks; would you prefer that?

Ganymede

10-26-07, 04:27 PM

yet they manage to construct military HQ, smuggle weapons, build tunnels, and so on without a permit.

BS.

That's why they're bulldozed soon after. How many times was arafats compound blasted to rubble?

Ganymede

10-26-07, 04:34 PM

THE PLAGUE OF WATER THEFT
The Israeli government controls all water in the Occupied Territories. While the Palestinian population finds itself with empty wells, many Jewish settlements nearby have lawns and swimming pools. Palestinian villages receive on average one quarter the amount of water per person as the settlements; in the refugee camps it is one ninth.
The water table in the West Bank has become dangerously depleted, and Israel continues to control the one resource around which all life revolves.

THE PLAGUE OF HOUSE DEMOLITIONS AND COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
The families of Palestinians who are merely suspected of acting against Israel, or who reside where gunfire is suspected can be subjected to the punishment of house demolition. Palestinians denied building permits on land they already own, can have their homes demolished.

As a result, thousands of Palestinians have been left homeless.
Collective punishment is a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention. (Who cares, they're only killing brown people) Those rules are written for Europeans only.

THE PLAGUE OF ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS AND BY-PASS ROADS
Since the beginning of the Occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem in 1967, 150 Jewish-only settlements and 11 exclusively Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem have been built in the Occupied Territories.
Since the Oslo agreement, the Israeli government has built over 200 kilometers of by-pass roads inside the Occupied Territories. These roads Ñ built on appropriated land Ñ can be closed to Palestinian traffic. Their purpose is to connect Israeli settlements with Israel proper, allowing settlers to bypass Palestinian towns and villages, and to isolate Palestinian villages and towns from each other.
There are now 400,000 Israeli-Jewish settlers who live illegally on Palestinian land.
The settlements are a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention.

THE PLAGUE OF INHUMANE CHECKPOINTS
There are hundreds of checkpoints in the Occupied Territories. Ostensibly imposed to enhance Israeli security, their primary function is to harass and humiliate Palestinian civilians, who are delayed for hours trying to get to work, schools, hospitals, shops, or to visit friends and families.
In addition, entire closures and sieges of Palestinian villages, towns, and cities have become an increasingly routine form of punishment.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_312.shtml

mountainhare

10-26-07, 06:55 PM

Spock:

and permits rocket attacks?

I'll take that as a 'No'. Funny how Israel claims to be civilized, when it still employs collective punishment.

Buffalo Roam

10-26-07, 10:21 PM

Spock:

I'll take that as a 'No'. Funny how Israel claims to be civilized, when it still employs collective punishment.

And the Palestinians aren't civilized at all, they don't even claim to be, they just live in a cesspool and kill anybody who gets in their way, even their own citizens, and even their own children.

otheadp

10-27-07, 01:01 AM

Spock:

I'll take that as a 'No'. Funny how Israel claims to be civilized, when it still employs collective punishment.

Let the Palis make their own electricity - or buy it from other countries... With the international donations (largest per capita in the history of aid) they should certainly be able to afford it. They'll merely have to divert their spending from weapons.

What the Israeli government is doing is basically stopping free subsidies to an enemy entity. That is a far far cry from collective punishement. Get a hold of yourself :p

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 01:16 AM

free subsidies? like food and water and electricity under occupation?

otheadp

10-27-07, 01:45 AM

there are no Israelis in Gaza. there is no occupation.
Gazans have money for it
Gazans have the means to do it
Gazans simply won't
They're too busy building weapons

it's time to stop subsidizing the intifadah!

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 10:39 AM

Nice mantra. Long live the occupation?

Buffalo Roam

10-27-07, 10:44 AM

Nice mantra. Long live the occupation?

What occupation? Israel with drew from the Gaza.

Palestinians Flood Into Abandoned Gaza Areas
September 12, 2005 · Palestinians celebrated in the abandoned Jewish settlements of the Gaza Strip today, just hours after the last Israeli soldier left the territory, following 38 years of occupation.

Israel Completes West Bank Withdrawal
August 23, 2005 · Israeli troops and police complete the evacuation of settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Troops have already begun demolishing the settler homes in Gaza prior to handing the territory over to the Palestinian Authority in a few weeks.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 10:48 AM

What occupation? Israel with drew from the Gaza.

Palestinians Flood Into Abandoned Gaza Areas
September 12, 2005 · Palestinians celebrated in the abandoned Jewish settlements of the Gaza Strip today, just hours after the last Israeli soldier left the territory, following 38 years of occupation.

Israel Completes West Bank Withdrawal
August 23, 2005 · Israeli troops and police complete the evacuation of settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Troops have already begun demolishing the settler homes in Gaza prior to handing the territory over to the Palestinian Authority in a few weeks.

And? They are still surrounded on all sides by Israeli checkpoints. ALL food and water into Gaza is controlled by Israel. Even the ones from Egypt.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/

Since 1967, when Israel conquered these areas (the final 22 percent of mandatory Palestine), Palestinians have been living under Israeli military occupation. While in some parts Israel has allowed a Palestinian “autonomous” entity to take on such municipal functions as education, health care, infrastructure and policing, Israel retains overall power.

According to international law, an occupying force is responsible for the protection of the civilian population living under its control. Israel, however, ignores this requirement, routinely committing violations of the Geneva Conventions, a set of principles instituted after World War II to ensure that civilians would “never again” suffer as they had under Nazi occupation. Israel is one of the leading violators of these conventions today.

Israeli forces regularly confiscate private land; imprison individuals without process – including children – and physically abuse them under incarceration; demolish family homes; bulldoze orchards and crops; place entire towns under curfew; destroy shops and businesses; shoot, maim, and kill civilians – and Palestinians are without power to stop any of it.

When a child is arrested, for example – often by a group of armed soldiers in the middle of the night – parents can do nothing. Knowing that their son is most likely being beaten by soldiers on the way to the station, stripped and humiliated in prison, quite likely physically abused in multiple additional ways, and destined to be held – perhaps in isolation – for days, week, or months (all before a trial has even taken place), parents are without the ability to protect their child. Quite often, in fact, they cannot even visit him.

Finally, when the military trial under which their son is to be sentenced – often to years (sometimes decades) in prison – all they can do is hire a lawyer whose efforts, at best, will reduce the ultimate sentence by a few months. Rarely, if ever, can even the most skilled lawyer do more than afford the child a friendly face in court and be an outside witness to the injustice of the proceedings. Meanwhile, the presence of such a lawyer provides Israel cover for its “judicial system.”

Perhaps most significant – and rarely understood by people in the outside world – is the fact that Palestinians live, basically, in a prison in which Israel holds the keys.

They cannot leave Gaza or the West Bank unless Israeli guards allow them to. If they have been allowed out, they cannot return to their homes and families unless Israeli guards permit it.

Frequently, in both cases, Israel refuses such permission.

How is this not an occupation?

Baron Max

10-27-07, 01:15 PM

And? They are still surrounded on all sides by Israeli checkpoints.

Germany is surrounded on all sides by other national checkpoints, so what's the big deal? As a matter of fact, I think India also has checkpoints on it's borders, too. Interesting, that.

ALL food and water into Gaza is controlled by Israel. Even the ones from Egypt.

Then why don't Gaza grow their own food and drill for their own water? Or would they rather use that money and effort for something else, while letting their people starve and die?

Baron Max

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 01:24 PM

Germany is surrounded on all sides by other national checkpoints, so what's the big deal? As a matter of fact, I think India also has checkpoints on it's borders, too. Interesting, that.

Then why don't Gaza grow their own food and drill for their own water? Or would they rather use that money and effort for something else, while letting their people starve and die?

Baron Max

WHERE?

Palestine is occupied remember? The Israelis control everything including housing, building and farming and bulldoze at will.

abu_afak

10-27-07, 01:45 PM

And? They are still surrounded on all sides by Israeli checkpoints. ALL food and water into Gaza is controlled by Israel. Even the ones from Egypt.

Really?

You must be referring to it's Wall with..... EGYPT.
http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060104/060104_gaza_wall_hmed.hmedium.jpg

http://burning.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/palestineegyptnoborders0.jpg

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/09/16/battling_wideweb__430x291.jpg
A Palestinian boy peeps through a hole in the border wall between the Rafah refugee camp, in the southern Gaza Strip, and Egypt.
Photo: AP

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 01:46 PM

Holes in the walls? Made by Israeli bulldozers? :rolleyes:

Btw, the last one, is that the apartheid wall?

Btw, you do realise that there are WALLS? you know the WALLS that the holes are made in? Not gates, not doors, but HOLES?

abu_afak

10-27-07, 01:50 PM

Those pictures are the Gazans/Palestine Border with EGYPT, and Palestinian Bulldozers breaching them, that Israel certainly Does NOT Control, contrary to Your Lie/s above.

That's what/Disinfo you get for using anti-Israel propaganda sites like 'ifamericansknew'.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 01:51 PM

Those pictures are the Gazans/Palestine Border with EGYPT, that Israel certainly Does NOT Control, contrary to Your Lie/s above.

Sure they are. :rolleyes:

Egypt: IDF soldiers are aiding arms smuggling to Gaza Strip
By Shmuel Rosner, Haaretz Correspondent
Egyptian document distributed in U.S. Congress asserts Israeli soldiers cooperate with smugglers.

An Egyptian document distributed in Congress asserts that Israeli soldiers cooperate with smugglers in allowing arms and military equipment into the Gaza Strip. The document was relayed to senior Israeli officials where it has served to intensify concerns in Jerusalem about Egypt's willingness to stem the flow of weapons from its territory into the Hamas-controlled Gaza Srip.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/914200.html

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 01:58 PM

And the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt is kept closed by Israel

Defense Minister Amir Peretz on Thursday decided to open the Rafah border for two days to allow Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip to cross into Egypt.

The crossing will be open Friday and Saturday. Peretz said the decision had been made following consultations over security considerations.

Some 10,000 Palestinians on the Egyptian side of the border have been waiting for the crossing to open to allow them re-entry into the Gaza Strip.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/765848.html

abu_afak

10-27-07, 01:59 PM

originally posted by abu_afak

Those pictures are the Gazans/Palestine Border with EGYPT, and Palestinian Bulldozers breaching them, that Israel certainly Does NOT Control, contrary to Your Lie/s above.

Sure they are. :rolleyes:

Have a Party: 'Gaza Egypt Wall'

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2007-17,GGLJ:en&q=Gaza+egypt+wall

First 10 Links

Palestinian Militants Blow Hole in Gaza-Egypt Wall - 10:55amRAFAH, Egypt -- Hundreds of Palestinian and Egyptian police formed human cordons on both sides of the Gaza-Egypt border Thursday to block Palestinians ...
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/6/29/111455.shtml - 19k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Viewpoints - The Wall Separating Gaza and Egypt - Worldpress.orgAs international attention turned to Jerusalem, where Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was hospitalized with a debilitating brain hemorrhage, ...
www.worldpress.org/Mideast/2212.cfm - 58k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

israelinsider: Briefs: Palestinian militants set off landmine near ...About 50 masked Palestinian militants set off a Landmine Thursday near the Concrete Wall marking the Gaza-Egypt border, Palestinian security officials said. ...
web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/9264.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

israelinsider: security: Israelis, Palestinians, Egypt in tense ...With breaches in the border wall sealed, angry Palestinians were forced to ... The Israelis are building a terminal at Kerem Shalom, where Gaza, Egypt and ...
web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/6626.htm - 44k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Blasts leave hole in Gaza-Egypt border wall - Israel News, YnetnewsYnet News: Two explosions cause no injuries but send Gazans rushing to the infiltrate open crossing. Meanwhile, Egyptians step up security at border, ...
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3423914,00.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Daily News Egypt - Full ArticleGAZA: "Masked Palestinian gunmen blew a 4 meter wide hole on Thursday in the border wall between the Gaza Strip and Egypt after Israel launched a military ...
www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2078 - 48k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Egypt deploys along Gaza Strip border fearing Militant breakout ...Last summer, Hamas gunmen blew a six-meter hole in the Gaza-Egypt border wall, allowing nearly 1000 stranded Palestinians to cross home during a border ...
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/880768.html - 96k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

bitterlemons.org - The courts and the fence/wallThe deliberations over the future of the Rafah crossing point between Gaza and Egypt are of growing importance for more than one reason. ...
www.bitterlemons.org/previous/bl050905ed32.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Palestinians Blow Hole in Gaza-Egypt Border Wall AFP
- Find ArticlesPalestinians blow hole in Gaza-Egypt border wall from AFP in Array provided by LookSmart Find Articles.
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmafp/is_200606/ai_n16553433 - 26k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

They SURE Are

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2007-17,GGLJ:en&q=Gaza+egypt+wall&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

First Image "GAZA - EGYPT BORDER - SEPTEMBER 13:.."

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/55397105.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6FA05E7CB630218F3 474FC6B9CADF7309

Second Image
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/55396790.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6540FE2D66E9E555E 78A0E721FD50B7AE

GAZA - EGYPT BORDER - SEPTEMBER 13: ...

Third Image
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/pix/gaza_getty_55392388.jpg

What will Caught LYING, Disinformation, S.A.M. last word below?
Does it matter?
A[nother] complete rout.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 02:01 PM

nice pictures showing how "free" the people are.

nicer still that there was someone around to take pics.

was this during the rare times that the IDF opens the border?

otheadp

10-27-07, 02:57 PM

SAM
why don't you pay for my rent and utilities?
afterall i'm under occupation
there are checkpoints at Canada's borders

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 04:19 PM

SAM
why don't you pay for my rent and utilities?
afterall i'm under occupation
there are checkpoints at Canada's borders

Are those checkpoints manned by soldiers who break the arms and legs of your children, while curtailing you from leaving your prison for work and denying you access to food water electricity sanitation and medical supplies? Do those soldiers regularly bulldoze your homes and orchards?

It takes a lot to define an occupation, not just a checkpoint.

Imagine if there were no home, or if any/all of your utilities were denied you by people who then used your helplessness to mock and ridicule your inability to fight back. Imagine if they moved into your house and threw you into a walled compound. Imagine then they called your anger and frustration a threat to their stability.

superluminal

10-27-07, 04:32 PM

And the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt is kept closed by Israel
Israel kicks ass!

I'm so glad some portion of my charitable contributions each year go to the IDF.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 04:36 PM

Israel kicks ass!

I'm so glad some portion of my charitable contributions each year go to the IDF.

Maybe you should join up. They'll give you honorary citizenship if you promise to stomp on Palestinian four year olds.:rolleyes:

superluminal

10-27-07, 04:38 PM

That entire region, not much bigger than the state of delaware, should be the sole province of isreal. All of the other peoples anywhere near isreals borders should be moved into some other desolate region (of which there are plenty) in some other country that so loves them.

End of conflict.

superluminal

10-27-07, 04:40 PM

Maybe you should join up. They'll give you honorary citizenship if you promise to stomp on Palestinian four year olds.:rolleyes:
You lie horribly. The US and isreal have some incidents of collateral damage and individual assholes that just plain enjoy stomping kids. Every army does. The difference is that your precious freedom fighters (aka terrorists) make it their policy to stomp kids.

You're such a biased hypocrite sam.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 04:42 PM

You lie horribly. The US and isreal have some incidents of collateral damage and individual assholes that just plain enjoy stomping kids. Every army does. The difference is that your precious freedom fighters (aka terrorists) make it their policy to stomp kids.

You're such a biased hypocrite sam.

Really? Here is a thesis published by an ex-IDF soldier

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/909589.html

Maybe you can send your kids to join the 'most moral army' in the world.

superluminal

10-27-07, 04:51 PM

Really? Here is a thesis published by an ex-IDF soldier

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/909589.html

Maybe you can send your kids to join the 'most moral army' in the world.
Ah. Every army is the same. You think there's a "moral" army anywhere in the world? Are you that naieve?

Let me explain the difference to you.

The armies of the west are subject to the same human instincts as those of any culture. We have in place rules and technology designed to protect innocent civilians (which, btw are working better, by far, than they ever have). Still, in battle, there will always be "incidents", most of which are dealt with legally.

Your terrorist friends however have a standing policy of deliberately attacking children. Schools, school busses, playgrounds, etc. On purpose.

You lose. The moral ground of your friends is no higher than anyone elses (and significantly lower than that of the west).

Your sympathies are sadly misplaced.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 04:56 PM

Ah. Every army is the same. You think there's a "moral" army anywhere in the world? Are you that naieve?

Let me explain the difference to you.

The armies of the west are subject to the same human instincts as those of any culture. We have in place rules and technology designed to protect innocent civilians (which, btw are working better, by far, than they ever have). Still, in battle, there will always be "incidents", most of which are dealt with legally.

Your terrorist friends however have a standing policy of deliberately attacking children. Schools, school busses, playgrounds, etc. On purpose.

You lose. The moral ground of your friends is no higher than anyone elses (and significantly lower than that of the west).

Your sympathies are sadly misplaced.

Not the West. Only the US. Americans are the only people blind to the realities of the Palestinians.

List of US vetoes of UN resolutions against Israel; notice how many of them are only by the Americans
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

Situation now:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Human_situation_in_Gaza_untenable__United_Nations/articleshow/2492406.cms

The humanitarian situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) and especially in Gaza is becoming untenable, said UN Under- Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs John Holmes here.

"The situation inside Gaza and also the West Bank is one of increasing difficulties," he said at a news conference here on Thursday describing the situation as a serious humanitarian crisis. The trends are worrying and creating a situation that is extremely untenable, he added.

Holms, who is also the UN Emergency Relief Coordinator, said that the situation is getting steadily worse and the situation is not helpful for the peace process.

The international humanitarian law is applicable to the OPT and needs to be fully respected, he said adding denying freedom of movement for emergency medical reasons would seem to be in breach of normal practice and normal requirements of international humanitarian law.

The situation needs to be brought to the attention of the international community even more than it has already been and not least in the context of the impending political negotiations, he said.

Holmes, in response to a question on Israel's threat of more power cuts in Gaza, said that it will have an effect, a dramatic effect and will affect everything.

"Collective punishment for the Gaza population is not the right or the most effective response to rocket launching from Gaza," he said.

It does not seem to be, he added, an appropriate response to those continuing rocket attacks to punish economically the population of Gaza.

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:19 PM

The UN is useless. And if the situation is so "untenable" then the UN and all of the other nations of the world can band together and force the issue with the US. They can collectively enact sanctions against us that would cripple us. Why don't they?

"Collective punishment for the Gaza population is not the right or the most effective response to rocket launching from Gaza," he said.

It does not seem to be, he added, an appropriate response to those continuing rocket attacks to punish economically the population of Gaza.
I agree with this. What isreal should do is announce it's intention to go in and place the entire region under martial law, with the full knowledge that anyone who resists will be shot. The civilians should be made safe, given food, water, power, etc. And any region from which rockets originate should be the first recipient ever of a tactical, low-yield nuclear weapon.

Seriously. You don't think it will eventually escalate to such a level? I do. I would suggest getting the inevitable over with asap and end this fiasco of human misery.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:23 PM

I think as long as Israel knows that the US has its back, it will continue to do what it wants. They are already under martial law, shot on sight etc. The tiny detail you forget is that Israel is occupying their land.

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:25 PM

abu_afak

10-27-07, 05:25 PM

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_anti_israel_bias.php

What is the evidence that the United Nations is biased against Israel?

[...]
UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, speaking to the American Jewish Committee in December 1999, said:

I know that to some of you in this audience, and to the Jewish community at large, it sometimes seems that the United Nations served all the world's peoples but one: the Jews.

[...]
Security Council

From its first meetings in 1946, at least one Arab state sat on the UN Security Council in most years, while Israel has been kept ineligible for membership by manipulation of the regional groups.
The Security Council has repeatedly adopted one-sided resolutions charging Israel with sole responsibility for human rights violations, violence and deportations. On the other hand, Palestinian and other Arab violations and involvement with such incidents are rarely criticized, or even noted by the Council.

In an analysis of the Security Council's record up to 1989, of 175 total resolutions passed by the Council, 97 were directed against Israel, as contrasted with 4 against all Arab states combined.
The Council expressed its 'concern,' 'grave concern,' 'regret,' 'deep regrets,' 'shock' etc. about Israeli actions 31 times.
Regarding Arab actions, the Council Never expressed negative sentiments.

Only the veto power of the US prevented these numbers from being even more one-sided against Israel.

Because it has been Blocked from membership in any regional group, Israel is the only nation in the world that is denied the right to hold a seat on the UN Security Council on a rotating basis. Israel's recent temporary membership in the Western Europe and Others (WEOG) regional group cannot change this for years.

In October 2000, after the collapse of the Camp David talks and the start of the al-Aqsa intifada, a Special Emergency Session of the United Nations passed a one-sided resolution condemning Israel for the violence. The UN ignored numerous incidents planned and initiated by the Palestinian Authority such as the lynching in Ramallah, the desecration of Joseph's Tomb and the ancient synagogue in Jericho, as well as the ongoing acts of violence on the part of the Palestinians. Only Israel was condemned.

General Assembly

The United Nations General Assembly gives one vote per member country, and there are many more small developing Islamic countries than large non-Islamic developed countries. Because many of these smaller developing countries suffered under Western colonialism, the General Assembly also has an anti-Western bias. These facts, coupled with Cold War manipulations by the Soviet Union, created a solid majority block in the General Assembly that reliably churned out anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian resolutions year after year.

In the years 1947 to 1989, the General Assembly passed a total of 690 resolutions (full or partial). Of these, 429 were against the Israeli position while only 56 were against Arab positions. Of the 56 votes not to the Arabs' liking, 49 concerned the establishment or financing of peace-keeping forces. Absent these, the last anti-Arab vote in the General Assembly, on any issue, was in May of 1949.

The UN General Assembly is still dominated by blocks of third-world countries that are anti-American and anti-Israel. The numerical strength of the Arab states and the Non-Aligned Movement in the General Assembly created the long series of offensive, anti-Israel, anti-American and anti-Western resolutions, capped by the infamous 1975 "Zionism equals racism" Resolution 3379. Except for Resolution 3379 itself, repealed in 1991, these black marks of injustice remain on the General Assembly's record.

In December 1991, the infamous 1975 "Zionism equals racism" resolution was repealed by the General Assembly. The repeal effort, which should have been a self-evident proposition, required an extensive diplomatic lobbying campaign by the United States, Israel and a few others. It included the direct, personal participation of President Bush, Vice President Quayle, and Secretary of State Baker; massive efforts by every regional bureau of the Department of State in Washington, American Ambassadors and their staffs in New York and every UN member capital; and lobbying by private groups around the world. The very difficulty of repealing Resolution 3379 showed just how deeply ingrained in the UN system was its anti-Semitic bias, and why, even after repeal, its effects linger.

The UN has repeatedly held Emergency Special Sessions of the General Assembly on Israeli construction in Jerusalem. The Emergency Special Session was originally convened in 1950 for emergencies like the Korean War.
In the last 15 years, these special meetings have only been held regarding Israel. Emergency Special Sessions were Not convened over the genocide in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, or with regard to the other major world conflicts, but they were convened to condemn Israelis moving into buildings they own in territory they have a legitimate claim to.

In 1999, the Palestinian Arabs tried another tactic.
Forgetting that it was the Arabs who rejected General Assembly Resolution 181 in 1948 and prevented its implementation, they launched an international diplomatic campaign to revive 181 as a basis to create a Palestinian state. They want another 1947 partition vote because the borders of Israel, under Resolution 181, would be smaller than the negotiated borders called for in the later UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, adopted after the Six Day War in 1967 and generally accepted as a reasonable basis for peace with secure borders. Resolution 181 also provides that Jerusalem:

... The Palestinian Arabs want to use the UN to rewrite history at their convenience, hoping the world will forget the three major Arab-instigated wars of aggression against Israel and the multitude of terrorist attacks since the Arabs originally rejected Resolution 181...."

more at: http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_anti_israel_bias.php

(When 57 of the 190 countries are Muslim.. it doesn't start well)

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:31 PM

When only one other country in the world is supporting you, and that country itself is hegemonistic, crying foul is pointless

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:32 PM

When only one other country in the world is supporting you, and that country itself is hegemonistic, crying foul is pointless
Then every other country in the world is morally deficient in allowing us to continue on our current course with isreal. Shame on them.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:33 PM

No. Isreal occupies isreali territory, if that's what you're trying to say.

No it occupies Palestinian territory

http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/israel-palestine%20map.jpg

abu_afak

10-27-07, 05:34 PM

Ahh the Maps.
Let's play Map!

http://www.palestinefacts.org/images/map_palestine_mandate.jpg

77% of British Mandate was lopped and made Jordan, no Jews allowed.

http://www.agsconsulting.com/articles/isr47prt.jpg

Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian'.
Leaving the other 23% divided roughly 13-10 for the Jews.

Meaning the Arabs aka Palestinians got 87% of the Mandate.
(the Pink AND Red Areas)

And آ½ of the Jews 13% was the Negev Desert. (lower آ½ the light Blue Area above)
So Jews really got about 6% of the usable land of the Original Mandate..and about 1% of the Ottoman land.
(The arabs got 99% of the land and 100% of the resources.
If you want to keep breaking Arabs down into small sub-groups like the nonexistant-at-the-time 'palestinians', one can always find small injustice.)

AND unlike in the surrounding states... Arabs still live in/make up 20% of Current Israel's population within that land.
Had they not rejected the partition/started a war in 1948, They might even be a majority by now.

Also not seen on maps? 2/3 of what became Israel was State Land, passing from the Ottomans, to the British, to the Jews; owned by NO Arab.
This Includes the Half alone of Israel that was/Is the Negev Desert.

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/isr-world.gif

Yes, the lower half of that little that red spot/Israel- is the Negev Desert, State Land under the Ottomans, owned by No Arab....and about 15-20% more that was also state land.
And 20% of the population of the upper half of the Red Dot- is Arab.

If you want to see True Injustice in regards the Ottoman Breakup, not a very few people moved a few miles, just Google Kudistan to see who got really screwed.

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/kurdistan/kurdistan.gif

And yet there's no real cause- not even a mention before the Iraq War by "Human Rightsers".
Kurds a True People, Culture and lingual group; unlike 'Palestinians', Arab Sate # 23, and 'Palestinian' state #2.

I've always found it interesting/myopic/Suspect anglos who take up the 'palestinian cause'- to the exclusion of all other peoples and far larger injustices as above and Tibet- for another.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:37 PM

Thats like saying America is a big country so they should give away a few states to the Mexicans

abu_afak

10-27-07, 05:41 PM

NO it's like saying Arabs are like American Indians and got the Whole damn country of America (Ottoman Empire) (indians should be so lucky), and the colonists just got Connecticut (Israel), so the 'Erie tribe got screwed' (palestinians).. even tho they got Much Larger New York (Jordan) too.

This, even my post, discounts, of course continuous Jewish presence (unlike the colonists) for 3300 years and being in good enough number for a state at any time in the last 150 years.

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:43 PM

See all of the white in your 2000 map? The parts that say "isreali land"? I'd say the isrealis are occupying isreali territory. Saying otherwise is like saying that the united states is occupying native american territory.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:44 PM

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:46 PM

Get over it sam. The jews have been living in that region as long as anyone else. And if they happen to be strong enough at this point, with the backing of the only existing superpower (I love that term!) then the palestinians lose. It's kind of like the argentinians lose against the brits. End of story.

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:47 PM

I see. In that case, there isn't anything more to say is there?
Exactly. Next thread?

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:49 PM

Exhumed

10-27-07, 05:50 PM

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:51 PM

Exactly. Next thread?

Why bother? Now that I understand your stance, it seems pretty clear what your general POV is. I'll just take it for granted that it applies to all non-Americans regardless of who they are.

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:55 PM

Why bother? Now that I understand your stance, it seems pretty clear what your general POV is. I'll just take it for granted that it applies to all non-Americans regardless of who they are.
Right. And now that I know your stance (as if there was ever any doubt) I'll just take it for granted that your national hatred of america and americans is the motivation behind almost all of your threads.

Kinda clears things up nicely.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:55 PM

End of story? I'm sure as soon as you teach the Palestinians this peace will follow.

No fear of that. Eratz Israel extends a long way in the Bible and they'll never run out of terrorists to kill. The arms industry is in no danger of going out of business.

otheadp

10-27-07, 05:56 PM

I see. In that case, there isn't anything more to say is there?
and hopefully you'll shut d f up already

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:58 PM

and they'll never run out of terrorists to kill. The arms industry is in no danger of going out of business.
Right. As long as radical islamists keep ponying-up to the blast-yourself-and-innocent-children-to-bits bar for a nice round of molotov cocktails, no shortage.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 05:59 PM

and hopefully you'll shut d f up already

Yeah, all this protest against indiscriminate killing of people is such a bore!

You're killing Israel with your own hands. :shrug:

superluminal

10-27-07, 05:59 PM

End of story? I'm sure as soon as you teach the Palestinians this peace will follow.
If only they were that reasonable...

superluminal

10-27-07, 06:00 PM

Yeah, all this protest against indiscriminate killing of people is such a bore!

You mean like your friends the terrorists directly targeting women and kids?

I agree. Yawn...

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:03 PM

You mean like your friends the terrorists directly targeting women and kids?

I agree. Yawn...

Don't worry, I wont defend the terrorists, I'm not the one who thinks having the biggest gun makes you the man.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:05 PM

Right. As long as radical islamists keep ponying-up to the blast-yourself-and-innocent-children-to-bits bar for a nice round of molotov cocktails, no shortage.

radical islamists? so if America is attacked and occupied, does that make Americans radical big macs? will the lard fly? :rolleyes:

superluminal

10-27-07, 06:06 PM

Don't worry, I wont defend the terrorists, I'm not the one who thinks having the biggest gun makes you the man.
No? Why the change of heart?

superluminal

10-27-07, 06:13 PM

radical islamists? so if America is attacked and occupied, does that make Americans radical big macs? will the lard fly? :rolleyes:
Funny. There's no telling what lengths we'd go to. If we adopted the tactic of indiscriminate suicide attacks, then I suppose we'd be reviled (or applauded as the case my be) as much as your terrorist buds.

Is that really the point? Are you supporting going to any length to get a particular hunk of land? When does a foe finally give up and admit defeat? Isn't that really the point here? This is real life. The palestinians can't win against the US/isreal if it's in our best interest for them not to. We may eventually change our stance, but it will be pure self interest.

This is humanity at it's best. It's what we do. We're the alpha dog. And thankfully a fairly benevolent one (use your imagination).

abu_afak

10-27-07, 06:14 PM

and hopefully you'll shut d f up already

She never does.

She's the board's numero uno Last-worder.. no mattter what. Even when completely lost.
Her only/best argument IS that she speaks last. With something/anything.
Sometimes she's so Lost she puts up a few in a row- to try and compensate.

43+ post a day average (more lately, 60+ today and alot more night to come) and fully willing to go 100 or more.
That's about 3 Every waking hour here for 20 months.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:16 PM

No? Why the change of heart?

Its not a change of heart; but a desire to solve the root of the problem. Nobody wakes up one morning and decides he wants to strap a bomb to his body. Its an act of desperation, but demonising Palestinians is so much better when your national policy is to veto UN resolutions that would give them some semblance of rights. A man attaching an explosive to his body and blowing himself up is a man who has nothing left to lose, its not the same as a man who is sitting in an aircraft and pressing a button, then going home to spend the evening with his family. For any human being to reach that point of desperation, his situation has to be one that is beyond endurance, beyond resolution and beyond his capacity to mentally cope with. With no food, employment or medical access, no hope for the future or ability to provide for his family, possibly nowhere to go and no means to better his circumstances, he reaches the point where he decides that if he must go, he will take down a few of his enemies with him. Its not a rational thought process and the men who do this are all someone who have suffered under the occupation, lost family members, suffered humiliation and helplessness.

As long as the situation remains the same, there will be some who will go down the path; its a wrong path, but with no change in the situation (in fact, an exacerbation, as Israel is now building on the West Bank as well and soon the Palestinians staying there will become superfluous, all one million of them), there will be no change in the reactions of some of the people.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:24 PM

Funny. There's no telling what lengths we'd go to. If we adopted the tactic of indiscriminate suicide attacks, then I suppose we'd be reviled (or applauded as the case my be) as much as your terrorist buds.

Is that really the point? Are you supporting going to any length to get a particular hunk of land? When does a foe finally give up and admit defeat? Isn't that really the point here? This is real life. The palestinians can't win against the US/isreal if it's in our best interest for them not to. We may eventually change our stance, but it will be pure self interest.

This is humanity at it's best. It's what we do. We're the alpha dog. And thankfully a fairly benevolent one (use your imagination).

I dont think Americans are capable of sacrifice, you'll never see them killing themselves for a cause.

As for the other point, do you think occupation and genocide is justified if you have a bigger gun?

otheadp

10-27-07, 06:26 PM

She never does.

She's the board's numero uno Last-worder.. no mattter what. Even when completely lost.
Her only/best argument IS that she speaks last. With something/anything.

43+ post a day average (more lately, 60+ today and alot more night to come) and fully willing to go 100 or more.
That's about 3 Every waking hour here for 20 months.

i just looked at her number of posts.
my eyes went wide and i said out loud "oh my f'n god"

yea.. i picture SAM as a single and over-weight lady with a thick accent and a mustache (yet those features are her most appealing ones)

sam, drop the melodrama. it's really hard to take you seriously

otheadp

10-27-07, 06:28 PM

I dont think Americans are capable of sacrifice, you'll never see them killing themselves for a cause.

you dummy
the point is not to die for your country - it's to make the other bastard to die for his

guess who said that :)

abu_afak

10-27-07, 06:31 PM

i just looked at her number of posts.
my eyes went wide and i said out loud "oh my f'n god"

yea.. i picture SAM as a single and over-weight lady with a thick accent and a mustache (yet those features are her most appealing ones)

sam, drop the melodrama. it's really hard to take you seriously
Here's how I picture Her.. and it's the only thing that she won't last word.

[To S.A.M.]
That's from the National Post of Canada.

Funny, whenever I post something they don't like on ARAB boards (I post on a few) they Idiotically and Kneejerkingly call it "Zionist Propaganda" no matter what the topic.

What a Coincidence S.A.M. does the same.

BTW you never answered on what S.A.M. stood for.
Whether it had anything to do with your previously announced residence in Saudi Arabia. And perhaps that you were also a Muslima

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:33 PM

you dummy
the point is not to die for your country - it's to make the other bastard to die for his

guess who said that :)

Of course. But what if the only way you could get the enemy to die is to make yourself the weapon?

Exhumed

10-27-07, 06:34 PM

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:35 PM

otheadp

10-27-07, 06:49 PM

Of course. But what if the only way you could get the enemy to die is to make yourself the weapon?

then do what any rational being would do - preserve your life.
but Pali cultue is a culture of death and suicide...

otheadp

10-27-07, 06:49 PM

If you want to improve the conversation don't go off topic, it doesn't help you to be taken seriously. :rolleyes: You two have given me a headache.

sorry about that
but SAM brings out the worst in me :p

Exhumed

10-27-07, 06:50 PM

Right, people are just into suicide. Of course, people around me aren't, but the Palestinians aren't like normal people. It has nothing to do with circumstances.

otheadp

10-27-07, 06:53 PM

Right, people are just into suicide. Of course, people around me aren't, but the Palestinians aren't like normal people. It has nothing to do with circumstances.

the culture of the Shahid - it's everywhere in "Palestine". especially in Gaza

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 06:55 PM

How many Palestinian refugees in other countries commit suicide with bombs?

How many before the establishment and occupation by Israel?

otheadp

10-27-07, 06:57 PM

how many Jews live in other Arab countries for them to butcher? :P
though some Palis have done it in other countries
non-Palis too. this isn't unique to them. it affects other Muslims / Arabs

superluminal

10-27-07, 06:57 PM

Its not a change of heart; but a desire to solve the root of the problem. Nobody wakes up one morning and decides he wants to strap a bomb to his body. Its an act of desperation, but demonising Palestinians is so much better when your national policy is to veto UN resolutions that would give them some semblance of rights. A man attaching an explosive to his body and blowing himself up is a man who has nothing left to lose, its not the same as a man who is sitting in an aircraft and pressing a button, then going home to spend the evening with his family. For any human being to reach that point of desperation, his situation has to be one that is beyond endurance, beyond resolution and beyond his capacity to mentally cope with. With no food, employment or medical access, no hope for the future or ability to provide for his family, possibly nowhere to go and no means to better his circumstances, he reaches the point where he decides that if he must go, he will take down a few of his enemies with him. Its not a rational thought process and the men who do this are all someone who have suffered under the occupation, lost family members, suffered humiliation and helplessness.

As long as the situation remains the same, there will be some who will go down the path; its a wrong path, but with no change in the situation (in fact, an exacerbation, as Israel is now building on the West Bank as well and soon the Palestinians staying there will become superfluous, all one million of them), there will be no change in the reactions of some of the people.
I don't think your assesment of the motivations of suicide bombers is accurate. There are billions of people who fit this description, many even here in the US. No. This suicide bombing mentality is particular to a radical sect of islamic teachings.

Exhumed

10-27-07, 06:59 PM

Billions who fit the part that said the men who do this are all someone who have suffered under the occupation, lost family members, suffered humiliation and helplessness. ?

abu_afak

10-27-07, 07:00 PM

the culture of the Shahid - it's everywhere in "Palestine". especially in Gaza

http://clabedan.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/ismail_haniyeh_hamas_at_rally_cartoon.jpg

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/boysuicidebomber.jpg

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/suicide_bomber.jpg

otheadp

10-27-07, 07:04 PM

and those pics r just the tip of the iceberg.
there are posters of shahids -- suicide bomers -- on the streets, praising and glorifying them, making them into role models

abu_afak

10-27-07, 07:06 PM

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/pal%20kid%20-%20child%20abuse.jpg

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/pal%20children%20w%20AK46%20rifles.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/MummyBomberL_468x468.jpg

superluminal

10-27-07, 07:06 PM

Billions who fit the part that said ?
No. The BOLDED part. Sheesh.

She's claiming that a shitty life situation is enough to drive anyone to suicide bombing. And I claim that's BS. It's religious and cultural. Look at the (appalling) example of native americans on reservations. For many it's at least as bad as that of a college educated, fairly well-off muslim who decides to blow himself and a bunch of kids up. It's indoctrination and ideological conditioning. Kamikazis.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 07:06 PM

I don't think your assesment of the motivations of suicide bombers is accurate. There are billions of people who fit this description, many even here in the US. No. This suicide bombing mentality is particular to a radical sect of islamic teachings.

Its not my assessment

there is evidence that many suicide attackers included a large number of Palestinians who had a prior history violent encounters with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) that resulted in an immediate family member being killed or in some cases the attacker him/herself was injured or arrested (due to space limitations only a sample of this data is included in this table). Revenge may be a significant factor in motivating Palestinians youth to volunteer; in our preliminary search we found 44 (and counting) attacks where the operators had been exposed in the past to IDF force. 11 of the 44 suicide attackers with grievances had a relative killed by the IDF; almost all were previously arrested or had had a family member arrested or injured. Combined with deteriorating economic prospects, such personal injuries may seed volunteerism among youths, making them relatively easy targets for organizational recruiters. From October 2000 through March 2004, over 2,800 Palestinian fatalities and 25,600 non-lethal injuries were attributed to the IDF. By the end of 2002, some 1,600 homes were destroyed, 14,000 damaged, and $650 million of damage done towards public infrastructure. Unsurprisingly, suicide bombers often experience personal trauma related to the Israeli force prior to their volunteering, such as the death or injury of a family member.

Prior research posits correlative links between economic damage and violent outcomes in conflict scenarios (Manoucher Parvin, 1973), a finding confirmed in more recent studies that find a significant relationship between the two during the First Intifada (Marwan Khawaja,1995). Suicide bombers are particularly vulnerable to the severe economic conditions in the Palestinian Territories. Closure dampens earning potential while discouraging entry into the labor market. Overeducated against the mean, suicide attackers face high losses relative to their educational investment; since many come from larger families and face crushing obstacles in labor market entry, the lack of feasible economic alternatives produces higher probability of violent militancy.
http://www.ecaar.org/Newsletter/Nov04/saleh.htm

otheadp

10-27-07, 07:07 PM

Billions who fit the part that said "the men who do this are all someone who have suffered under the occupation, lost family members, suffered humiliation and helplessness" ?

well, actually yes.
but the "billions who fit the profile" comment was said about people who are poor and live in dire economic conditions.

suicide bombing is a monopoly of you-know-who

Japanese don't count because they hadn't done that in 60+ years.

superluminal

10-27-07, 07:11 PM

Yeah. And you know what? All of those middle-class-looking parents and kids in their plaid button-downs and Nike t-shirts look sooo desperately downtrodden. Must me tough to be an islamist with only one TV on each floor and two pairs of nikes for your kids. And only one rocket for that other poor kid.

Shit. I'd want to blow myself up too.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 07:15 PM

Yeah, they happen to be very cheap there, especially in the dollar stores. :rolleyes:

superluminal

10-27-07, 07:15 PM

Sam, I read your quotes, and... BS. While it may be true for islamist radical assholes, it's not for other people under similar circumstances.

It's culturally religiously driven hatred.

superluminal

10-27-07, 07:15 PM

Yeah, they happen to be very cheap there, especially in the dollar stores. :rolleyes:
Clearly. Look at the pics sam.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 07:16 PM

well, actually yes.
but the "billions who fit the profile" comment was said about people who are poor and live in dire economic conditions.

suicide bombing is a monopoly of you-know-who

Japanese don't count because they hadn't done that in 60+ years.

Do the LTTE count?

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 07:17 PM

Clearly. Look at the pics sam.

I've been in the ME, do you know how many knock-offs of American brand names are available?:rolleyes:

superluminal

10-27-07, 07:19 PM

superluminal

10-27-07, 07:22 PM

I've been in the ME, do you know how many knock-offs of American brand names are available?:rolleyes:
I'm sure. The hypocritical shits.

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 07:35 PM

I'm sure. The hypocritical shits.

Yeah, isn't it strange? They actually believe that is the life to aim for?

One that symbolises freedom from oppression?:rolleyes:

And suicide bombing is not restricted to or even begun with Muslims.

The earliest suicide bombers in Lebanon (18 years occupation by Israel) were mostly marxists, Christians and a few Muslims. But the overwhelming majority (>300) are the LTTE (also Marxists) from Sri Lanka (also fighting for the right to live on their land).

abu_afak

10-27-07, 07:36 PM

Frankly, I'd love it if that "kid" accidentally set of his wardrobe right there and took out the fuckwads surrounding him. I'd just have to chuckle.

[img]http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/suicide_bomber.jpg

The Whole society is "F**kwads"
That's what Kids learn at Home, Camp, Scool, and State Spnsored TV.

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/slideshow.php

Just 1 of 48 in above slide show
http://www.teachkidspeace.org/slideshow/4.jpg

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 07:37 PM

Yeah, imagine, all they think about is the occupation. Really strange :rolleyes:

abu_afak

10-27-07, 07:40 PM

It's about INDOCTRINATION, not about occupation or Desperation.
State TV.
The Palestinian 'Sesame Street'

The Childrens Club

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2007-17%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=the+childrens+club++palestinian+tv

abu_afak

10-27-07, 07:49 PM

The Latest Version, Hamas Style.
Al-Aqsa TV.

'Farfur', (google if you like) a Mickey Mouse Rip-off, cancelled because of world outrage...
But as the show explains he was killed by the "Filthy Jews".

Replaced of Course with the almost as popular 'Nahool'
(short but 'sweet' 50 sec clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneSE6nJiLw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flittlegreenfootballs%2Ecom%2Fweb log%2F

S.A.M.

10-27-07, 08:23 PM

Is that shown in the schools where the IDF shoots at students?

otheadp

10-28-07, 02:07 AM

Saudi Arabia Muslema, you are incorrigible

Challenger78

10-28-07, 03:38 AM

In palestine, you can't live, breath or eat without thinking about the occupation, While the indoctrination of children is wrong, What are they meant to think when relatives dissapear and children's schools are attacked ?. I don't think there is one person in palestine that hasn't been affected in some way or form by the occupation. These tv shows are reflective of the mentality of many.. but not all.

Challenger78

10-28-07, 03:45 AM

Education is the primary source for influencing and shaping society.

You mean other than randomly occupying and sending airstrikes into densely populated areas, keeping lots of people prisoner, and generally keeping a society under seige.

superluminal

10-28-07, 08:56 AM

Please show me the state sponsored policy or educational videos that direct the IDF to "attack schools and kill children".

Challenger78

10-28-07, 08:59 AM

Its not the fact that its state sponsored its the fact that it continually happens.

superluminal

10-28-07, 09:07 AM

Yeah, imagine, all they think about is the occupation. Really strange :rolleyes:
Too bad it's not an occupation. It appears that the palestinians that remain are on isreali territory.

Ganymede

10-28-07, 01:22 PM

UN Resolutions against Israel

1. Resolution 106: "... 'Condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"

2. Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"

3. Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"

4. Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"

5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"

6. Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"

7. Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"

8. Resolution 248: "...'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"

9. Resolution 250: "... 'Calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"

10. Resolution 251: "... 'Deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

11. Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"

12. Resolution 256: "... 'Condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"

13. Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"

14. Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"

15. Resolution 265: "... 'Condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"

16. Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"

17. Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"

18. Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"

19. Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"

20. Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"

21. Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"

22. Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"

23. Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"

24. Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"

25. Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"

26. Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"

27. Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"
28. Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"

29. Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

30. Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'

31. Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"

32. Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

33. Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"

34. Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"

35. Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"

36. Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"

37. Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"

38. Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians" 39. Resolution 471: "... 'Expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

40. Resolution 476: "... 'Reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'

41. Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'

42. Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"

43. Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"

44. Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"

45. Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"

46. Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"

47. Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"

48. Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"

49. Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

50. Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"

51. Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"

52. Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters

53. Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"

54. Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 55. Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians

56. Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

57. Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"

58. Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians

59. Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians

60. Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount

61. Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations

62. Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians

63. Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return

64. Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians

65. Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Isra el

U.N Violations are only enforced against Brown Nations

abu_afak

10-28-07, 01:25 PM

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_anti_israel_bias.php

What is the evidence that the United Nations is biased against Israel?

[...]
UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, speaking to the American Jewish Committee in December 1999, said:
I know that to some of you in this audience, and to the Jewish community at large, it sometimes seems that the United Nations served all the world's peoples but one: the Jews.

[...]
Security Council

From its first meetings in 1946, at least one Arab state sat on the UN Security Council in most years, while Israel has been kept ineligible for membership by manipulation of the regional groups.
The Security Council has repeatedly adopted one-sided resolutions charging Israel with sole responsibility for human rights violations, violence and deportations. On the other hand, Palestinian and other Arab violations and involvement with such incidents are rarely criticized, or even noted by the Council.

In an analysis of the Security Council's record up to 1989, of 175 total resolutions passed by the Council, 97 were directed against Israel, as contrasted with 4 against all Arab states combined.
The Council expressed its 'concern,' 'grave concern,' 'regret,' 'deep regrets,' 'shock' etc. about Israeli actions 31 times.
Regarding Arab actions, the Council Never expressed negative sentiments.

Only the veto power of the US prevented these numbers from being even more one-sided against Israel.

Because it has been Blocked from membership in any regional group, Israel is the only nation in the world that is denied the right to hold a seat on the UN Security Council on a rotating basis. Israel's recent temporary membership in the Western Europe and Others (WEOG) regional group cannot change this for years.

In October 2000, after the collapse of the Camp David talks and the start of the al-Aqsa intifada, a Special Emergency Session of the United Nations passed a one-sided resolution condemning Israel for the violence. The UN ignored numerous incidents planned and initiated by the Palestinian Authority such as the lynching in Ramallah, the desecration of Joseph's Tomb and the ancient synagogue in Jericho, as well as the ongoing acts of violence on the part of the Palestinians. Only Israel was condemned.

General Assembly

The United Nations General Assembly gives one vote per member country, and there are many more small developing Islamic countries than large non-Islamic developed countries. Because many of these smaller developing countries suffered under Western colonialism, the General Assembly also has an anti-Western bias. These facts, coupled with Cold War manipulations by the Soviet Union, created a solid majority block in the General Assembly that reliably churned out anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian resolutions year after year.

In the years 1947 to 1989, the General Assembly passed a total of 690 resolutions (full or partial). Of these, 429 were against the Israeli position while only 56 were against Arab positions. Of the 56 votes not to the Arabs' liking, 49 concerned the establishment or financing of peace-keeping forces. Absent these, the last anti-Arab vote in the General Assembly, on any issue, was in May of 1949.

The UN General Assembly is still dominated by blocks of third-world countries that are anti-American and anti-Israel. The numerical strength of the Arab states and the Non-Aligned Movement in the General Assembly created the long series of offensive, anti-Israel, anti-American and anti-Western resolutions, capped by the infamous 1975 "Zionism equals racism" Resolution 3379. Except for Resolution 3379 itself, repealed in 1991, these black marks of injustice remain on the General Assembly's record.

In December 1991, the infamous 1975 "Zionism equals racism" resolution was repealed by the General Assembly. The repeal effort, which should have been a self-evident proposition, required an extensive diplomatic lobbying campaign by the United States, Israel and a few others. It included the direct, personal participation of President Bush, Vice President Quayle, and Secretary of State Baker; massive efforts by every regional bureau of the Department of State in Washington, American Ambassadors and their staffs in New York and every UN member capital; and lobbying by private groups around the world. The very difficulty of repealing Resolution 3379 showed just how deeply ingrained in the UN system was its anti-Semitic bias, and why, even after repeal, its effects linger.

The UN has repeatedly held Emergency Special Sessions of the General Assembly on Israeli construction in Jerusalem. The Emergency Special Session was originally convened in 1950 for emergencies like the Korean War.
In the last 15 years, these special meetings have only been held regarding Israel. Emergency Special Sessions were Not convened over the Genocide in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, or with regard to the other major world conflicts, but they were convened to condemn Israelis moving into buildings they own in territory they have a legitimate claim to.

In 1999, the Palestinian Arabs tried another tactic.
Forgetting that it was the Arabs who rejected General Assembly Resolution 181 in 1948 and prevented its implementation, they launched an international diplomatic campaign to revive 181 as a basis to create a Palestinian state. They want another 1947 partition vote because the borders of Israel, under Resolution 181, would be smaller than the negotiated borders called for in the later UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, adopted after the Six Day War in 1967 and generally accepted as a reasonable basis for peace with secure borders. Resolution 181 also provides that Jerusalem:

... The Palestinian Arabs want to use the UN to rewrite history at their convenience, hoping the world will forget the three major Arab-instigated wars of aggression against Israel and the multitude of terrorist attacks since the Arabs originally rejected Resolution 181...."

more at: http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_anti_israel_bias.php

(When 57 of the 190 countries are Muslim.. it doesn't start well)

Ganymede

10-28-07, 04:12 PM

2 IDF soldiers pose infront of dead Palestinian, GOD's chosen people must make him proud

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ISRA22.jpg

Another example of Israel defending itself

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ISRA88.jpg

The peaceful Citizens of Israel, show their love to this elderly Palestinian Woman

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ISRA1.jpg

Ganymede

10-28-07, 04:18 PM

Children of peace

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/shells.jpg

abu_afak

10-28-07, 04:23 PM

I guess you had no comback on the U.N.

You do have a few pictures of what and when it's not clear.

However, nothing to match the Official Societal Abuse from Cradle to Grave of Palestinians

For Instance. Here's the Palestinian 'Court System' at work on their own people.
(not a few bad apple pictures like you posted)

http://middleeastfacts.com/Gallery/albums/palestinian-collaborators/palestinian-collaborator.jpg

http://middleeastfacts.com/Gallery/albums/palestinian-collaborators/palestinian-collaborator2.jpg

http://middleeastfacts.com/Gallery/albums/palestinian-collaborators/palestinian-collaborator3.jpg

I can't wait until these People get their Own country, or countries;
whichever side wins/kills each other that is.

Ganymede

10-28-07, 04:34 PM

SECRETARY-GENERAL SHOCKED BY COORDINATED ISRAELI ATTACK ON UNITED NATIONS

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/UNOB.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/UNISRA.jpg

I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defense Forces of a United Nations observer post in southern Lebanon that has killed two United Nations military observers, with two more feared dead.

This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked United Nations post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that United Nations positions would be spared Israeli fire. Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the United Nations Force Commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular United Nations position from attack.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sgsm10577.doc.htm

No matter how you slice it, it's murder!

abu_afak

10-28-07, 04:42 PM

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/UNOB.jpg
what, rolling out all your goofy pictures no matter how off topic?
BTW and LOL, what's that First/quoted Picture of? AN explosion in an Empty FLAT Field from your 9/11 conspiracy stuff? It clearly Ain't the on-a-dirt-mound UN post that had lots of cover around it. AND.. Like some incredibly lucky guy was there to snap a picture at the instant in the midst of a pitched battle!
Some 9/11 expert Conspiracist you are!
No matter.. I got it covered

You mean THIS "Deliberate Attack"

Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield

Canadian wrote of militia's presence, 'necessity' of bombing

Joel Kom, with files from Steven Edwards
The Ottawa Citizen
July 27, 2006

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are Evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "SHIELD" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just Nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

The strike hit the UN observation post in the southern Lebanese village of El Khiam, killing Canadian Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener and three others serving as unarmed UN military observers in the area.

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah Tactics.

"What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

"The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters (sic) of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters (sic) from our patrol base. [u]This has NOT been Deliberate targeting, but RATHER due to TACTICAL NECESSITY."

Those words, particularly the last sentence, are not-so-veiled language indicating Israeli strikes were Aimed at Hezbollah targets near the post, said Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie.

"What that means is, in plain English, 'We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then USING us for Shields and then engaging the (Israeli Defence Forces)," he said.

That would mean Hezbollah was Purposely Setting up near the UN post, he added.
It's a tactic Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie, who was the first UN commander in Sarajevo during the Bosnia civil war, said he's seen in past international missions: Aside from UN posts, fighters would set up near hospitals, mosques and orphanages.

A Canadian Forces infantry officer with the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the only Canadian serving as a UN military observer in Lebanon, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener was no stranger to fighting nearby.

The UN post, he wrote in the e-mail, afforded a view of the "Hezbollah static positions IN and Around Our patrol Base."

"It appears that the Lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in Our area," he wrote, noting later it was too dangerous to venture out on patrols.

The e-mail appears to CONTRADICT the UN's claim there had been no Hezbollah activity in the vicinity of the strike.

The question of Hezbollah's infiltration of the area is significant because UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, speaking Tuesday just hours after the bombing, accused the Israelis of the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the base near Khiam in southern Lebanon.

A senior UN official, asked about the information contained in Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail concerning Hezbollah presence in the vicinity of the Khiam base, denied the world body had been caught in a contradiction.

"At the time, there had been no Hezbollah activity reported in the area," he said. "So it was quite clear they were not going after other targets; that, for whatever reason, our position was being fired upon.

"Whether or not they thought they were going after something else, we don't know. The fact was, we told them where we were. They knew where we were. The position was clearly marked, and they pounded the hell out of us."

Even if Hezbollah was not firing rockets at the time of the bombing, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail indicates they were using a terrorist tactic of purposely drawing out enemy forces near a neutral site, said retired Capt. Peter Forsberg, who did two UN tours between 1993 and 1995 during the Bosnian war.

The UN's limited mandate, meaning that its observers are unarmed and have few options, put the observers in a poor position, he said.

If indeed Israel was attempting to hit Hezbollah fighters in the area, it hasn't yet used the excuse to explain its actions because it wouldn't make it any less guilty in the world's eyes, Capt. Forsberg said.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

NEXT!

(That First Picture Was Really Funny, Unbelievably so!
And you Consider yourself a serious "9/11" guy!
All your pics are from someone's or your own 'photobucket' album)

EDIT// GameOver Indeed!