http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26145

Now to add to that, I got some flak from the Islamic quarter for not being neutral enough. Now I don't what exactly I am suposed to write to be supoer neutral. Now the basic point of this thread is to have a serious discussion on the aspect of the current conflict btwn East/West, if it even exists. Now the problem i have with my thread is that it re-enforces the idea of the clash of civilizations.
The West has done her fair share of crimes against the Islamic community. The Crusades is a good example of such actions. Then also the post WWI cutting up of Arabia for western economic needs. Then the Balfour declearation that granted the Jews a homeland in a muslim area. Then the arab allied (somewhat) with the Nazi's. Then the West used the oil for there economic expasion. Then 1973 well that is the downhill spirl of the Muslim/West relationship.

So is there a conflict btwn east/west?

These are strange days Nico. I prefer to think of the East/West thing as a clash of cultures blown up into a conflict by a handfull of powerful people, on both 'sides', who will never suffer the pain or the poverty of those on the 'front line'. This is a story as old as mankind and it's a sad and oft repeated fact that those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I've never met anybody muslim, christian, jew or martian who wanted to see their childrens lives riven by conflict. So why do we do it to each other? After all, we all bleed red.

There is enough room, resources and religion for all of us.
Peace out from an old hippy.
Dee Cee

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/mosqueb.jpg

Everyone sees something different.

Some will see an assault on Islam, some an assault on the WTC and some will see a big question mark.

I was a little surprised, too, Nico. I think you presented your case well, but the end might have lacked the definitive punch you were aiming for. "I owe the topic deeper consideration"? Half the time that's spin for, I need to make sure I'm reading you correctly.

However, that doesn't explain people ignoring your explicit PS later in the topic.

For the time being, though, my meager contribution to the other topic is going to have to stand.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

I sadly think there is a conflict btwn east and west. The west's tactics are simple, war, invasion, and intimidation. The East's is terrorism, numbers, and repression. The thing is that There are three camps in the world now. The American/Western camp, the Islamic camp, and the Rest of the world camp. What can we say? Well the western camp has for the most part the nessecary economic, militaristic, and political power. The Islamic camps largely lacks these things. Albeit they provide the blood of the world's economy and the west is very much dependant them. What I think the problem is this. The West is angry that there economic vitality is dependant on Muslim oil, and that the Muslims are gaining more and more in membership. Meanwhile the Muslims are angry that the west still excercises it's power over the ppl's of the islamic world. Putting in dictators, ignoring religous factions etc. Both sides are jealous of each other, basicly.

now I may second Nico, and please don't tell me, who cares what you think.

Quite the opposite Flores, expand. That is why this thread is here to have a through conversation, so explain.

Originally posted by nico
I sadly think there is a conflict btwn east and west. The west's tactics are simple, war, invasion, and intimidation. The East's is terrorism, numbers, and repression.


This is true at the government levels, but due to the good economic conditions and high standards of living of the west, the citizens simply feel no need to react to certain things, so religious feelings are contained, also the west feels as if they need to elevate those miserable eastern creatures, this usually is explained through religious differences and the west immediately feels that the problem lies in Islam and that if the east become christians then all problems will vanish. The east on the other hand recognize the charity and denies it at all cost and while the islamic religion needs plenty reform, the muslims prefer to stay with their corrupt version than look like they are accepting the charity and ideology of the west.

Originally posted by nico
The thing is that There are three camps in the world now. The American/Western camp, the Islamic camp, and the Rest of the world camp. What can we say? Well the western camp has for the most part the nessecary economic, militaristic, and political power. The Islamic camps largely lacks these things. Albeit they provide the blood of the world's economy and the west is very much dependant them. What I think the problem is this. The West is angry that there economic vitality is dependant on Muslim oil, and that the Muslims are gaining more and more in membership. Meanwhile the Muslims are angry that the west still excercises it's power over the ppl's of the islamic world. Putting in dictators, ignoring religous factions etc. Both sides are jealous of each other, basicly.

Both sides are jealous alright, and they need to stay that way to ensure future survival of the world. I believe that our world survival is based on conflict. To build new things we must destroy, to create peace we must have war, to reach a solution, we must have a problem....It's the balance we need to keep between making wars and making peace that must be maintained or no camps will exist and all of us could book a ticket in the camp of total destruction.

Ps. Look forward to continue discussion, but gotta run, first rule of my operation is absolutely no sciforums in the evening hours or in the weekend. So see you Monday.

At the end of the day it boils down to "Who's the bigger man".

It's evolutionary and both sides feel like they need to out do the other.
Example of that during the initial nuclear build up.
Rumors of Germany making one --> USA had to have it -->
Soviets had to have some if US had one...etc.

Add in the religious and cultural values and now you have
the motive & the drive to out-do the other side.
Be that through murder & mayham, whichever.

Yes there is a clash between the east and the midwest....
didn't you ever see Shanghai noon?:p