The first statement that is needed to be made is that Islam is not a religion , and as the intentions of this particular post and thread are not religious but political , is it justified to be placed in the political forum and not the religious forum .

The path that made this subject a necesarry one on this forum , is the rhetorical ad hominem attacks for political purposes on Muslims by those who do not have a bond with Islam in any way .

To be a Muslim is not to be of the religion of Islam , to be a Muslim is to be of Islam , Islam is not a religion only . Islam is what is called in Arabic Din (Deen) , that can be translated as :

A concept concerned with the whole entire conduct of life , whether spiritual or temporal, religious or secular, domestic or societal, moral or material, social or cultural, economic or political, individual or collective, rather national or international .

A thanks for the Muslim brothers in Germany for the following clarification efford :

Islam-Not a Religion (http://www.minhaj.de/islam/islam-e.html)

Islam is Biological , Socio-Biological , Socio-Economic , Psychological , Sytical , Intellectual & Spiritual .

ISLAM = Submission to Allah for Safety and Security = PEACE
Muslim = He who is of Islam

It is disrespectfull , foolish and of no civilization when one opinionates on Islam and the people of Islam without having an understanding of Islam and the people of Islam .

Kafir dictionary's do not contain neither the knowledge nor intention nor care to translate a concept as complex as Islam .

This is totally incorrect :

A monotheistic religion characterized by the acceptance of the doctrine of submission to God and to Muhammad as the chief and last prophet of God.

The people or nations that practice Islam; the Muslim world.
The civilization developed by the Muslim world.

The religion of the Mohammedans; Mohammedanism; Islamism. Their formula of faith is: There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.

The whole body of Mohammedans, or the countries which they occupy.

These LIES about Islam are of the Devil , it is so filled with shit entire books can be written , brothers are actualling write them on just mere specifical elementary mistakes :
http://www.ahmedbaki.com/english/books/din/din41.htm

But let me just clear up a few . Islamism doesnt exist , Mohammadanism is concidered HIGHLY offensive as Muslims are of ISLAM not MUHAMMAD , and the misspelling is also just an add on to the whole melting-pot of the Devils' concept of Islam .

I call all Muslims to no longer accept what they are called in these Indo-Euro mistranslations and politcally motivated misconceptions of Islam .

The way to learn about Islam is NOT to look it up in some dictionary

Thats not Islam , let Muslims never be fooled , let the Devil fool himself . They just want to cause Muslims to condemn oneanother when we know better not to condemn another Muslim , only Allah can do such .

The Devil cant fool a Muslim nowadays ..........

So what you are trying to say it is not a religion, a set of beliefs and a system for worship, but a way of life? Such as a philosophy? Be aware, brother, that not all non-muslim think "Oh, islam. Yeah, they smoke hash..ride camels..i think they call their God Allah..or something." Not all. But, yes, sadly...alot do.

As a muslim it is your duty to educate your non-muslim brothers about ISLAM and what it is to be of Islam, to be a muslim...you have a large job ahead of you ;)

It sounds like Mr Jihad etc. wants to try to subvert a peaceful religion for his own political purposes.

Nenar

Indeed you are right , not everybody has such simplistic views , but alot indeed have . As for the hash-smokers , I didnt even know that one :o , as I am used to experience westerners rather complain about brothers and hash and cricizing their identity , it seems rather popular to opinionate on something unknown .

I dont know if it is to educate non-muslim of Islam , I believe it is essential to educate those who are of peace and those who are my brothers what we are dealing with . As for non-muslims , there are many peoples that are ready to judge what they do not know in any way they please , I do not know if my wish is to educate those who oppose no matter what , but those who want to learn instead of judge unwise , I can advise them to go to discover Qu'ran and read Hadith , to study about the philosophies that were known in the time of Muhammad (PBUH) , and to for the real deal to take some trips to the Mid-East and speak to as many and as different peoples as possible , then one might understand a bit what Islam truly is about .

Not just look it up in a dictionary and use totally incorrect words and concepts to translate it into their already shaped post-2G understanding of concepts .

I am happy to see however indeed not everybody reasons this way , Salaam Nenar !!

Unfortunatly the following people obviously do :

stu43t

I am sure you have no idea what your rambling about , consider yourself excluded from direct conversation .

James R

It sounds like you havent read any of this thread and wrongly translate Islam , Din , into religion . You can call Christianity a religion if you wish it is a Indo-European concept , Islam is not and is much more than that .

I dont see what any political motivation would overshadow these truths . I am very dissapointed to see a person who is a moderator of a board called "religion" to be so incredibly uninformed on what YOU identify as religion . What part of Din didnt you understand ? Have you even read what I have posted ? Or are you the
"God+Prophet+Book+Prayhouse=Religion" kind of guy ?

Islam, as it is understood by virtually everybody, with perhaps a few exceptions, is a philosophy and way of life centred around the concept of a God (Allah), whose nature was revealed by the prophet Mohammed. The holy text of that religion is the Qu'ran.

Perhaps you want to read more into it than that, but you must accept at least these things if you want to call yourself a Muslim.

If I hear the word Kafir (unbeliever) one more time, I'll snap....Who the hell tells those idiots what is in another heart? Can Muslims read the hearts to know who is the believer and who is the kafir.

Originally posted by Jihad_AlifLamLamHah

The Devil cant fool a Muslim nowadays ..........

Thank you brother for your statement. I totally disagree with you, islam IS a religion AND a way of life, saying that Islam is not religion is not true.

kind regards.

What the devil does is fool the muslim to make him think that he is not fooling him, then let the muslim fool himself. In addition, he convinces him that all the rest of the fools who don't think they are fools are his brothers and sisters is foolishness.

Flores

Can Muslims read the hearts to know who is the believer and who is the kafir.

It is not only the heart that reveals a Kafir , and I dont really understand your commotion . You feel upset when a Muslim calls a non-Muslim that disrespects Islam , that disrespects Muslims , a Kafir . Yet you do not have problems with people who have no bond with Islam in any way , but call Muslims Kafirs for purposes of division and rhetorics ?

What the devil does is fool the muslim to make him think that he is not fooling him, then let the muslim fool himself. In addition, he convinces him that all the rest of the fools who don't think they are fools are his brothers and sisters is foolishness.

Are you suggesting anything or making a general remark ?
If you are making a general remark , then I would like to share with you the following Ayah of Al-Maeda :

Shaitan's plan is but to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?

I am sure you are familliar with Zahir , but the Zahir is only there to surround the Batin , perhaps that is what you wish to understand from such Ayat . But that is up to yourself .

Proud Syrian

Thank you brother for your respons , but I do not think our disagreement is other than a misunderstanding . Perhaps I have not been clear , or perhaps you have not take the trouble to rwad beyond the title . Islam is Din , and Din is not religion . Religion is included in Din , but it doesnt equalize . Be sure I am in no position to deny religion as a part of Islam , but I do deny it is equal to Islam . And as you mentioned it is And this And that , I understand you agree with me ?


James R


That is quite an improvement , but not quite totally correct . Islam starts with the bond of a father and Allah through his son , in the tradition of Ibrahim . Yes there are other ways and no this merely is not complete , but it is the traditional path .

Ofcourse it centres around Allah and his messenger , but you must understand that there is no authority other than Allah that judges how exactly this translates itself into the Din . There are many different appearing Muslims , but it is only between them and Allah to reach understanding , and this understanding isnt necesarily translated into the regular terms and customs uphold by traditional leaders of Sunni or Shiaa . Just like the Pope doesnt own Issa , Sunni nor Shiaa owns Allah and his messenger .

So as you say there are things to be accepted , yes there are but not in such terms , not in such vast concepts , Sunni does not own theology nor prophethood .

As for the Kafir who knows not of what he speaks :

stu43t

Dont flatter yourself with discoveries you do not make , surely you are not 1 and that is my only message to you on that subject , dont expect further conversation .

As far as your arguments go in calling a Muslim a Kafir , it seems I have to requote myself since you do the same while you have been answered already :

1)If you are not a Muslim , I do not understand your need to opinionate on concepts you obviously dont know of and call a Muslim a Kafir , there are no Kafirs for a Kafir .

2)If you are a Muslim , then you know you cannot call another Muslim a Kafir for Allah is his judger not you .

3)Both ways your insulting manners are considered uncivilized and not educated on the subject .

You have responded to this in a manner that reveals mor than enough , and you have received a reply to this as well :


No, thank God I'm not a Muslim

I am thankfull you are not one as well .

The info regards KAFIR from comes from several Islamic sites

It doesnt matter where you get data if you are not capable of processing it into logical results .

It's not my opinion, it's Islams.

Just as you and a site about you isnt equal , Islam and Islamic sites arent equal . There is a difference between X and about X or of X or from X .

Y'know the religious, governmental, jihad cheering regime


Neither does your misconception of Islamic philosophies , nor any regime represent Islam .

It is quite obvious you are an Islamophobe , it is quite common since it fits your political bias , combine that with 0 knowledge and we can have Crystalnight all over .

I suggest when you commincate with other peoples about something you dont know , you make sure you dont opinionate with your fallacious logics , it shows lack of respect , and if one thing can assure a peacefull an civilized conversation it is respect .


Our conversation is over

Originally posted by stu43t
.....he's a raving nutter.


and YOUR brain is filled with melting butter :D

Hey Wasi,

We share the same birthday, wasn't it the same date which Hitler was supposed to have died?

This coming from mister :

No, thank God I'm not a Muslim. The info regards KAFIR from comes from several Islamic sites. It's not my opinion, it's Islams. Y'know the religious, governmental, jihad cheering regime

What is made up demon ? Your lies ? Your "I know Islam because I can look at up a dictionary" ? Your "calling Muslims Kafirs" ?

A-Staghfir-Ullah , A-Uzu Billahi Mina-Shaitanir Rajim

Insh-Allah

Yep, you've lost it alright.
This is the biggest load of bollox I have ever seen.


So if I make a site about you with what I believe you are , that means you and that site are the same ?

If I make a site about me, I would expect it to be true.

If people of Islam make a site about people of Islam I would expect it to be true.

First of all , the fact that when I call for Allahs forgiveness and the outcast of Satan , is responded with "dicks up my behind" , I think says it all once more .

If I make a site about me, I would expect it to be true.

If people of Islam make a site about people of Islam I would expect it to be true.


Thats the difference between you and the peoples of Islam .
You are alone , while there is 1.2 BILLION of them .

But more importantly , you are you , Islam is not them , they are OF Islam .

Enough using Islam as a towel to wipe poop with......Enough talk already about it....I'm sick and tired of hearing it....If someone feels holly, go be holly alone, we don't all need to watch....it's kindda gross.

And you are not - you said it yourself


In what damn position are you to say I am not of Islam ?

Flores

Enough using Islam as a towel to wipe poop with......Enough talk already about it....I'm sick and tired of hearing it....If someone feels holly, go be holly alone, we don't all need to watch....it's kindda gross.


Have you even checked what I have written in this thread Flores ? Im sure you have not ,Im sure you are just to bothered dealing with your own emotions and judging others what to say and what not to say as you may not be pleased to read it .

I really dont understand what your problem is

The problem is you. You are an arrogant jerk with everyone and everything.


I didnt ask you that question Kafir

If you want to talk of Islam then kindly take it to the religion forum, thankyou.

hello people, howz things?

I heard there was someone, a wise one...stu something. Anyway I heard he knew who was and was not kafir, who was and was not of Islam.
Damn stu... ureally are a "wali-allah"
respect to u.

now all u need to do is to open up a Darbar.

do you break "illum" and tackle the effects of "nuzar" too?!

Originally posted by Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
The problem is you. You are an arrogant jerk with everyone and everything.


I didnt ask you that question Kafir

You see, this is the exact thing that piss me off. Calling people Kafir and shit....Live and let live.

i remember mathematics saying that he's not a muslim...i think that's what stu is talking about..

Enough using Islam as a towel to wipe poop with......Enough talk already about it....I'm sick and tired of hearing it....If someone feels holly, go be holly alone, we don't all need to watch....it's kindda gross.

http://sciforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Originally posted by stu43t
Hey Wasi,

We share the same birthday, wasn't it the same date which Hitler was supposed to have died?


yes stu
born on 20th ,april ;died on 30th,april
(or he is still alive and lives in peru :D )

You see, this is the exact thing that piss me off. Calling people Kafir and shit....Live and let live.

Flores , could you please take the time and READ what I posted directed to you ? Thank you very much
:mad: