Saw this on another board in relation to 9 11:

Anti-aircraft weapons are mounted on the tops of many buildings in New York, the planes easily could have been brought down. Someone ordered that the planes be ignored.

Has anyone heard about this? Is that true?

Well, there's always the possibility that it's true, but personally I don't think it is. Why would they have ignored the planes? From what I undestand the U.S is very protective of its air space. For every event that ever happens, there's always a ton of conspiracy theories surrounding it. The trick is knowing what to believe and what to dismiss.

Io

I think it is logical, offcourse you don't bring down commercial airplanes, everybody in that situation would have thought it was a mistake, and have given the orders to 'ignore' them.

The defence system is/was just for being able to defend against militairy aircrafts.

I find it hard to believe. Also, if the planes <i>had</i> been shot down, surely they would have hit something anyway (i.e. other sections of the city).

The other post (i cant find it again, sorry, or i would post link), went on to say that it was to provoce military presence and excuse action in the east, also comparing the event to pearl harbor.

Anti-aircraft weapons are mounted on the tops of many buildings in New York, the planes easily could have been brought down. Someone ordered that the planes be ignored.

No. There are not anti-aircraft weapons on the tops of many NY buildings, to my knowledge.

Think about it.....why would they be put there? And who would man them? And what if some nutcase used them?

We Americans may seem a little....strange about weapons, but we do not go that far.

The other post (i cant find it again, sorry, or i would post link), went on to say that it was to provoce military presence and excuse action in the east, also comparing the event to pearl harbor.

The 'Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor' theory is far from proven. And again, I am very sure that NY dosen't have anti-aircraft weapons mounted on its buildings.

We are not really set up for such a thing as AA guns on building tops. Why would we? Why waste soldiers, who have to clean and maintain those guns, practice with them to be effective in it's use, for the just-in-case scenerio that a plane is going after a building? These soldiers would still not be effective without advance warning to expect a target. The reaction times will be very slow without that warning. As a free society, that is not something you normally plan for in day to day operations.

Building-top AA units are far more expensive than building-top anti-collision RF beacons working in unison with cockpit based building collsion-avoidance receivers.

We don't have any of those on top of our skyscrapers, either.

Originally posted by Io Ardena:
Why would they have ignored the planes?

For the same reason they ignored the submarines in Pearl Harbor, I suppose...

Originally posted by KneD:
The defence system is/was just for being able to defend against militairy aircrafts.

...Though, that's true...

What submarines at pearl harbor?

Allegedly, Roosevelt knew about the attack at Pearl Harbor in advance and let it happen in order to let the Japanese bring America into the war.

There are a few things that suggest this

Roosevelt wanted the US to enter the war, many Americans wanted to stay out. The attack left no choice.

By a lucky coincidence (or by design, take your pick) much of the fleet at Pearl Harbor was away during the attack.

However, correlation is not causation. Simply because my rich grandmother dies and leaves me all her money does not mean that I killed her. Coincidence is possible, even likely.

The other factor is that, if true, this conspiricy has been covered up for over fifty years. I don't know about you, but I don't think my government is that competent.

Furthermore, I do not think, if Roosevelt knew, he would have allowed the deaths of the ~1600 people who died at Pearl Harbor. He would have done somthing.

Never attribute to conspiricy that which can be as easily explained by incompetance.

Xev,

Furthermore, I do not think, if Roosevelt knew, he would have allowed the deaths of the ~1600 people who died at Pearl Harbor. He would have done somthing.

I don't thing the US really cares about the lives of innocent people...

Love,
Nelson

I don't thing the US really cares about the lives of innocent people...

We do.

Besides, the rest stands.

I'm talking about the government...

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Xev,

I don't thing the US really cares about the lives of innocent people...


US cares about lives of US people, innocent or not, and does not care about lives of other people, innocent or not... or at least thats the opinion iver been experiencing.

Truthseeker,

Don't you people have a <b>democracy</b> over there? You know - where the people <b>elect</b> their government? Doesn't that mean "the government" <b>is</b> "the people", in a sense?

i'm sorry i am answering a question aimed at another, but I think the people that are elected here are the people with the best funded campaighns, and those are the ones that suck up to the big companies the most...

James R,

Don't you people have a democracy over there? You know - where the people elect their government? Doesn't that mean "the government" is "the people", in a sense?

That's the ideal democracy. But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy.
The same the old communism in the USSR... ;)

Love,
Nelson

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
That's the ideal democracy. But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy. The same the old communism in the USSR...As you are not in the pseudoscience arena, please provide factual evidence of this statement. What do you cite as the parallels?

Peace.

At times I feel that we are in much the same state as the Romans were during their heyday. What I mean is that we have gotten too big and forgot our roots.

Much of the day to day populous is disenchanted with the government status quo. A large percentage doesn't vote. Doesn't feel that their voice is important to the running of the country. At the end of every campaign is the drive to get voters to the poll. Or as it is called turn out the vote.

Response is slow in government, often to the point that it is held hostage to prevailing politics. A good example is the annual budget process, where every politician that can gain enough support for his hair brained ideas of what the country should do, will hold the fiscal process hostage to what he wants.

Off and on through our history have been those cover-ups, some which occasionally make it into the public's attention. Enough that the general populous is skeptical of the government body at large. So many deals have been cut in the process of legislation, that it is apparent that special interest groups have more pull than they should. More influence to affect what should be a ruling for the majority than they should be able to wield. This is not been inspiring for the country as a whole.

Do not get me wrong here. To my line of thought it is still the best system going and we live under it's umbrella of influence. It just looks like it needs some fine-tuning.

The country, as a whole does care about individual rights. Does care about the dignity of each and every single life that lives within its scope and obeys the rules that society has set forth as laws to live by. It gets confused, (the idea), in the mess of general hubbub of day to day bs. Look around you when there is a tragedy and you will see it. People pulling together to send what aid they can spare. Not just in this country but where ever in the world that there is tragedy we send help. Grass roots say, "We should help". Across the country, independent groups spring up to gather and send supplies and aid. People gather together and doctors and relief workers offer to go to the site. Happens quite a bit when you think of it. Government does not say this group can not go. Usually in the background they to assist or some of the help would not make it. Transportation is provided by military to get that aid there. Something you should think about when you ask if the country really cares for others...

I started this out as a note that maybe we don’t get the job done we need in government. That we don’t get our dollars worth out of our politicians. In the writing of this note I wandered into the area where we as people and as a country do make a difference. It is still a great country with all of its faults.

****gets off soap box*****

"Do not get me wrong here. To my line of thought it is still the best system going and we live under it's umbrella of influence."

Better than Switzerland?

goofyfish,

As you are not in the pseudoscience arena, please provide factual evidence of this statement. What do you cite as the parallels?

Gimme a brake!
Everyone knows that!
Now you are saying that the democracy in the US is the ideal democracy!?!? If you think it is... it's not worth discuss nothing with you because you can't even judge what's the difference between the real democracy created in the ancient Greece and this "democracy" we have today!

Please... think about it. Not everything needs documented proofs. A little bit of common sense and you get it...

Love,
Nelson

I was just checking to see if you might have experienced some type of intellectual epiphany over the weekend. Apparently not.Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Not everything needs documented proofs.And for you, nothing needs documented proofs.

Peace.

I won't even discuss with you...
There are too many people that want to listen...
You can find what I told you in other threads and perhaps even in this one... I think GRO$$ once told something about that...

Love,
Nelson

Nelson:

Gimme a brake!
Everyone knows that!
Now you are saying that the democracy in the US is the ideal democracy!?!? If you think it is... it's not worth discuss nothing with you because you can't even judge what's the difference between the real democracy created in the ancient Greece and this "democracy" we have today!

Yes, the real, slaveholding democracy in ancient Greece that denied women the right to vote.

My country is far from perfect. And, as Tyler noted, there are countries that are more democratic, but we are a whole lot fucking better than that!

Please... think about it. Not everything needs documented proofs. A little bit of common sense and you get it...

Actually, when you smear my country, when you compare it to the USSR, you had better have very good fucking documented proofs.

Gro$$: Perhaps you wish to back your statement up? Oh no? Pity that.

You know truthseeker I'm starting to like your style.

I'm right
I don't need to prove it
You can figure it out yourself
End of discussion

Is there any way to loose with this formula? You must feel pretty good about your logic seeing as you leave no room for debate!

Hey Xev, now let's be fair about the perfect democracy as truthseeker sees it in Greece. I mean, it's not like we need anyone more than old men to vote, right? And people are just pieces or property!

As for your pitiful link of CCCP communism to American democracy? How about you show us some comparisons? Or at least give us a time period to look at? Because, as you the genius obviously know (I don't even have to state this as I guarantee you are already incredibly knowledgeable on political sciences and history), there were very different times in the Soviet Union.

Are you talking Lenin-era? Stalin? Or after? And are you relation those times to current times in the U.S. or the mirrored times in the U.S.? And exactly what aspects of these times? ........

I'm hoping you are starting to see how us simple minded people are unable to read your thoughts and know instinctively what exactly you are thinking. Some of us just aren't that smart or magical.

Maybe I can't read your mind because I'm using my brain instead of my essense?



By the way. Did you know that giant 24 long, winged giraffe-rhinos with 8 legs and an invicibility cloak live on an inner circle of pluto? What's that, you don't believe me? You say I need proof? Bah, if you had any logic, you'd be able to see this yourself.

Or maybe you just haven't looked deep enough in to see it.,

Xev,

My country is far from perfect. And, as Tyler noted, there are countries that are more democratic, but we are a whole lot fucking better than that!

I'm starting to doubt...
I won't blame your country here... I'm already tired of that...

Actually, when you smear my country, when you compare it to the USSR, you had better have very good fucking documented proofs.

US democracy is no better than USSR communism. Both were created by awesome people who wanted more equality to people and YOU all turn it into junk. A brilliant brazillian guy invent the airplane. You use it at war. A brilliant scientist discover the nuclear power. You use it to kill people. I'm sick of it. You are no different than your government. Goodbye.

Tyler,

Being arrogant and not accepting what I show you is your choice.

As for your pitiful link of CCCP communism to American democracy? How about you show us some comparisons? Or at least give us a time period to look at? Because, as you the genius obviously know (I don't even have to state this as I guarantee you are already incredibly knowledgeable on political sciences and history), there were very different times in the Soviet Union.

:rolleyes: I'm not talking about the practical communism!! I'm talking about the ideological!!! I'm talking about the idea Karl Markx had!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABOUT THE DEMOCRACY AND THE COMMUNISM, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE IDEOLOGICAL , NOT THE PRACTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sights*

IN MY POSTS I TALK ABOUT CONCEPTS, NOT FACTS! I CAN'T GIVE ANY DOCUMENTAL FACT ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S A CONCEPT NOT A FACT!!

I hope you understood now... :bugeye:

Love,
Nelson

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
A brilliant brazillian guy invent the airplane...Santos Dumont? Sorry.

The first airplane was invented by Sir George Cayley in 1799, in the United Kingdom. Santos was not even born for another 50-odd years. Gotta hate those pesky little facts. In 1909 Wilbur Wright honored Cayley the following words: "About 100 years ago, an Englishman… carried the science of flight to a point which it had never reached before and which it scarcely reached again during the last century."

Peace.

goofyfish,

I never heard this before...

Where are the proofs?? :D

Love,
Nelson

Nelson:
Quick search on google:

http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/cayley.htm

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/WrBr/inventors/Cayley.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/c/cayley-s.asp

I won't blame your country here... I'm already tired of that...

That's oddly refreshing.....:D

So what you're saying is that America has done to ideal Democracy what CCCP did to ideal communism?

Wow, amazing, isn't it, how that can be still proven?

You're so dumb it blows my mind. I can not even comprehend it. Does someone else type for you?

Here, perhaps I should tell you how to prove your point.

Step 1: Tell us what the characteristics of Marxist communism are
Step 2: Tell us what the characteristics of ideal Democracy are
Step 3: Show us how CCCP communism differed from Marxism
Step 4: Show us how U.S. Democracy differs from ideal Democracy
Step 5: Show how these are similar.

Is this a simple enough instruction manual?????

By the way, your theory is flawed in the very beginning. USSR communism was based on Marxist-Lenin theory, NOT just Marx. So obviously, as any moron could tell you, it will differ from Marxist communism.

By the way (part 2), ideal communism/democracy are still documented things so you can show them, genius.

Truthseeker: Study our constitution. Canada is surprisngly un-democratic in ways.

And our nation is not the best political nation on Earth either, though I would certainly argue it's MUCH better than the U.S.

"US democracy is no better than USSR communism. Both were created by awesome people who wanted more equality to people and YOU all turn it into junk. A brilliant brazillian guy invent the airplane. You use it at war. A brilliant scientist discover the nuclear power. You use it to kill people. I'm sick of it. You are no different than your government. Goodbye."

The originators of American democracy wanted equality to all people? Ohhhhhhhhhh, you meant equality to anyone who isn't black, jewish, chinese, female...
It's a beautiful equality; "All white, heterosexual males are equal!"

Just so that you know, communism did not originate with Marx. Him and Engels just wrote the first manifesto.

"Being arrogant and not accepting what I show you is your choice."

I agree. I am ignorant. I need evidence to believe things. Guess I'm just a dumby.

Tyler:
No, MY country is better. :p

That out of the way, you are right. Canada is superior in several ways, most notably history and the treatment of the Native population.....but you do not have (correct me if I am wrong) as deeply entrenched principles of freedom of speech.

http://fxi.org.za/update/9504/html3.html

(Yeah, and your Charter of Rights and Freedoms explitly mentions God - ours just waffles around with 'Nature's God' - NYAH!)

It's a beautiful equality; "All white, heterosexual males are equal!"

Not even. They had to own property.

Some were more equal than others. ;)

Canada's treatment of natives has been pitiful. Of course, so has the U.S.!
We've both been brutal in that area. Canada has been better, but not a heck of a lot, I'd say.

Our freedom of speech is actually better than the U.S. Largely because our nation is less blindly patriotic (some say due to immigration) there's more freedom of speech allowed. You guys are a lot more prude about things too (that's not to say we're not prude compared to other nations!), especially political things. In general I'd say our freedom of speech is more out there and definetly more encouraged. Remember that kid in New York who got banned for starting a club in his high school to protest against America attacking Afghanistan? I don't believe anything like that happened here.

I actually spent a year of schooling in the States. Your guys history text books are a disgrace. As I'm sure you know.

Then again, anyone who's seen Ontario's new Civics text book would notice how the whole thing is "Yay Democracy! There is no other option! Everyone else is evil!"

Like 180 pages and 160 on democracy, 8 on ancient governments, 7 on modern asian/african governments, 5 on Nazi's. And, oh, 2 sentances on communists.

Oh yeah, and our nation is significantly less God oriented! There's more diversity (especially in Ontario) and less religious people. Or, less Christians I should say. More of other religions in respect to population.

Tyler:

Yeah, we are definitly more blindly patriotic. I don't notice as much of that when I visit Canada. And religion - you ignore it! One can actually buy things on Sunday evening!

As for our textbooks, I (mercifully) escaped public high schooling here. But I've looked over a couple.

Russian revolution? Bad Bolshevicks kill the Czar, a paragraph or two devoted to America's brief intervention, with no word on how bloody stupid that action was.

Veitnam? They spend more time talking about the Iranian hostage crisis than they do about the Veitnam war!

Intervention in Central America? Perhaps a half-page on Grenada.

The only good thing they have going for them is the fact that the newer textbooks talk about the Native American culture more. Oh yeah, and the Revolution isn't as much "Good Patriots, Bad Brits" - they show how complex it actually was.

Our textbooks are starting to become more like yours, though are certainly not at that level yet. In Ontario there was this whole sentiment going around taht Canadians don't know engouh about Canadian history (which is, incidentally, true. The problem is, it's ADULT Canadians that don't know enough, not the soon-to-be Canadian adults. So the adults figure, hey, if we dont know enough, and surely nothing has changed since we were in high school in history class, we ned to change history class to be more Canadian!) and it ruined a lot of stuff.

I think our two sentances on commie's in the 'Civics: Government Studies' text book were:

- Hitler and the Nazi's were strongly opposed to the Communists in Europe, as they felt Communists were destroying German culture.
and
- In 1917 a revolution began which saw Russia become a Communist nation

oh and there was a small mentioning of the cold war. I walked out of a class once because of this conversation I had with my teacher.
Mr. F - Can anyone tell me what the main aspects of the cold war were?
Tyler - Arms race and espionage.
F - No I'm sorry, espionage was not part of the cold war.
T - Actually, it was. In fact, it was one of the major parts. There was a massive thing in Ottawa when a Soviet spy turned himself in.
F - No espionage was not a part of the cold war.
T - What are you talking about??? Just 12 years ago there were still 49 spy rings up in the Soviet Union???
F - Listen kid, if you're gonna argue with me you might as well leave. I know what I'm talking about.

At this point I stand up, look around for a second and then walk out.

The teacher was an economics teacher. He didn't even know history.

Then again, when I tried to comment on U.S. concentration camps for Natives in an American History class (in the U.S.) I got thrown out for trying to spread lies about America.

The good thing about topics like Vietnam and Iraq and Greece to us is that we didn't do the bad stuff! We were more like an observer. So we have less to be ashamed off, therefore they tell us more.

"As you are not in the pseudoscience arena, please provide factual evidence of this statement. What do you cite as the parallels?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gimme a brake!
Everyone knows that!
Now you are saying that the democracy in the US is the ideal democracy!?!? If you think it is... it's not worth discuss nothing with you because you can't even judge what's the difference between the real democracy created in the ancient Greece and this "democracy" we have today!

Please... think about it. Not everything needs documented proofs. A little bit of common sense and you get it...

Love,
Nelson"


So let me get this straight. "What do you cite as the parallels?" is not polite enough for you. But you can reply with "Gimme a brake...." and be polite? (besides the fact that you seem to have many errors in your English).

I had a good laugh the other night trying to picture you in a real debate form. "I'm sorry, I can not justify your question with a response as if you had any common sense you would already see it my way. End of discussion"
now we have
"Gimme a brake (break?), it's not worth discussing with you 'cause you ain't polite enough."

Tyler,

...besides the fact that you seem to have many errors in your English...

I don't speak English for a long time...

It's simple... :rolleyes:

Pay attention...

In an ideal democracy, everyone votes in every decision of the society. It's a direct democracy.

In the US democracy, you have a representative democracy where a person that represents the people vote in their behalf. It would be ok if people in the US weren't obscessed (is that correct...?) by money and power. What happen, is that the person elected to represent people is allways an asshole which only acts on his or hers own behalf.

Want an example? George Bush...

There you are... :D

Love,
Nelson

1) Still no info on communism
2) What ideal democracy statement is that? Who said that? And how about you be honest, is the fact that this is not met the fault of Americans? Or because the very idea is not feasable?
3) How is George Bush an example?

Perhaps it's your lack of English that hinders your debating skills, but I would think in any language the art of debate has similar form. You state an opinion, than lay down facts to prove it. That's the way to debate.

Tyler,

1) No need to talk about communism. It was just an example...
2) Everyone says that... everyone knows that...
3)... Oh God... :(

... George Bush is an asshole elected by the people, by democracy, which is doing lots of dumb things in his own behalf...

Satisfied?

Perhaps it's your lack of English that hinders your debating skills, but I would think in any language the art of debate has similar form. You state an opinion, than lay down facts to prove it. That's the way to debate.

I already did all of that...
What I don't understand is why instead of begin the debate you ask the same question again and again...

*sights*...

I'm tired...
I said everything...
I can't do nothing if you can't understand.
If you want, ask someone what he or she thinks about what I wrote...

Love,
Nelson

That's an advantage about living in San Francisco, everyone's open-minded, no teachers shutting u up about "lies". The teachers actually tell u the real stuff behind the events.
Truthseeker: I like the way you talk. It's hella annnoying how people keep asking you to back it up with facts; you must as well just write an essay. People people, if you don't know what he's talking about, look up the evils of the US government in google. I'm sure u'll find a lot. If I'm bs'ing, come back here and slap me in the face.
The US government is not ideal democracy. Not everyone votes. Also, only the rich has real power over the gameplay in US. That's not to say that the public has no voice, but not as much as the rich (like corporations and families). Also, the US morality only applies in US, not in foreign policies. Take sweatshops for example. Look up US genocides in third world countries. What's worse is that the government has so much control over the media. Turn on the news and notice the biasism. They ignore and/or condemn real facts about the mistakes of the US government. Also, the US has turned more socialist. That's not to say it's necessarily bad, just that it wasn't what the "founding fathers" intended (BTW these founding fathers weren't so great, and they had many, MANY faults. look it up =D). Look up the 10 planks in google, its a comparison between Marixsm and the US gov't. I know I have this very biased and negative view about the US, but it's a good way to help people realize its faults and improve it.

Err, the USSR ideaology has very VERY little to do with Marxism. Marxism was a prediction, the people were suppose to start the revolution by themselves. The coup 'de tat (err is that how it's spelled?) is not about the whole of Russia rising up. Also, the society was suppose to be classless. Instead, in the USSR, theres a small ring of elite people, and this makes it a 2-class society.

Feel free to attack anything in here, but dont be so cruel =D.

If you haven't noticed, everyone has told you what a bad debater you are.

I'm questioning how it isn't sinking into your head.

Now for my proof that you're the dumbest human being alive.

Dumb-dumb: "That's the ideal democracy. But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy.
The same the old communism in the USSR... "

- This would imply to me that you believe American Democracy is similar in that it is perverse from ideal democracy as CCCP communism was to ideal communism.

Tyler: I will sum this up as; can you show us a link between the two? Do you have any evidence

D.D.: "US democracy is no better than USSR communism. Both were created by awesome people who wanted more equality to people and YOU all turn it into junk"....I WASNT TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL USE OF THE TWO, JUST THE IDEOLOGY

- Now, here's where we get our first trace of stupidity. See, you CLEARLY stated in your first message that you were comparing the PRACTICAL use of the two to the IDEOLOGICAL of the two.

T: So let me get this straight? You're comparing the original ideological values of each to the actual practice of each? Incidentally, even if you are just talking about the ideological side of the two, you can still prove it as their is much documentation on the ideologies of communism and democracy.

D.D.: In an ideal democracy eveyrone has their say in every choice! But in American democracy, you just select people to represent you!

- Now, this is a true statement, but there are two major acts of dumbness in it. Part (1); having everyone one of the 320 million or so Americans vote on EVERY choice is economically impossible. There's a greater chance that I'll create life by cleaning my guitar. Part (2); When I asked you for the second time to show how ideal/practical democracy compares to ideal/practical communism you just showed me the democracy. That's half an answer.

T: (1) Are you going to show how this links to communism or have you forgetten that that's what I've been asking about this whole time?
(2) Who said this about Democracy, that EVERYONE should get to vote in EVERY decision?
(3) How is Bush this way?

- All are perfectly answerable questions. And if you can read, you'll notice in every one of my posts since my first I have questioned your communist link. But hey, you already knew that, right?

D.D.: (1) No I don't need to show the communist thing. I have decided that I don't need to answer your question, but rather shall make questions to answer.
(2) Everyone knows the truth, why don't you?
(3) Bush is dumb. Do I need proof? I think not.

And by the way, I have already answered all your questions.

- Problem the first: THE ONLY FUCKING REASON I ASKED YOU ANYTHING WAS TO SEE YOUR SUPPOSED LINK BETWEEN COMMUNISTS AND DEMOCRACY, NOW YOU SAY YOU DONT NEED TO DO IT?

Problem the second: How many times is this now that you're telling me that you don't need to prove it because I should already know it? I'm a philosophy student and have been since I was 11. I think I know my political studies pretty well. And I don't remember anyone saying that Democracy means EVERY citizens votes in EVERY decision. Know why? Becuase no one is stupid enough to say that. (Except, of course, you). It is I - M - P - O - S - S - I - B - L - E.

Problem the third: I may hate Bush, but that doesn't mean he destroys democracy. And even if he does, and some asks you how, the moron's way of doing things (I say moron's because anyone above the level of stupidity reached only by infants and people who have been locked in a dark room their entire life) would be to PROVE their statements with a little evidence.

Problem the fourth: You say you don't understand why I ask the same question again and again (presumably, the communist one). Well, dumb-dumb, it's because YOU HAVENT FUCKING MENTIONED ANYTHING CLOSE TO A RESPONSE TO MY QUESTION. IF YOU WANT TO LINK TWO THINGS, I ADVISE YOU STATE SOMETHING ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!!


Once again I have provided a play by play and you'll likely say something like 'I have already answered all your questions' or that I can just 'not see the truth' because I am ignorant. So, you fucking moron, if I'm so ignorant, enlighten me.

HOW DOES USSR COMMUNIST RELATED TO MARXIST (not even Marxist-Leninist, WHICH IT WAS BASED ON) IDEOLOGY COMPARE TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO IDEAL DEMOCRACY????

Want my question agian? Cause you've missed it every other fucking time I've written it.

HOW DOES USSR COMMUNIST RELATED TO MARXIST (not even Marxist-Leninist, WHICH IT WAS BASED ON) IDEOLOGY COMPARE TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO IDEAL DEMOCRACY????

HOW DOES USSR COMMUNIST RELATED TO MARXIST (not even Marxist-Leninist, WHICH IT WAS BASED ON) IDEOLOGY COMPARE TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO IDEAL DEMOCRACY????

HOW DOES USSR COMMUNIST RELATED TO MARXIST (not even Marxist-Leninist, WHICH IT WAS BASED ON) IDEOLOGY COMPARE TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO IDEAL DEMOCRACY????

HOW DOES USSR COMMUNIST RELATED TO MARXIST (not even Marxist-Leninist, WHICH IT WAS BASED ON) IDEOLOGY COMPARE TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO IDEAL DEMOCRACY????

HOW DOES USSR COMMUNIST RELATED TO MARXIST (not even Marxist-Leninist, WHICH IT WAS BASED ON) IDEOLOGY COMPARE TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO IDEAL DEMOCRACY????

Enough times, dumb-dumb?

Welcome Oyster. You'll find respect here if you back up what you say with an inch of evidence. So nicely done, I'll say.

Though, you still in no way answer the original question.

I maintain: giant 24 foot long, winged giraffe-rhinos with 8 legs and an invicibility cloak live on an inner circle of pluto. I don't need to back this statement up. You should fucking believe it without me giving evidence!

Name me one ideal democracy? Or one ideal socialist state? Or one ideal communist state? Name me one ideal government? They don't exist. They never existed. Genocides don't stray from ideal democracy by the way. As long as they happen outside the nation. It has never been stated that war would be eliminated through democracy. Although, it has been theorized that global communism would erase war.

I hate the U.S., by teh way. So don't go thinking your views are not welcome here.

Wow, you know that Marxism isn't what communist Russia was based on? Wohhhhh, you instintly garner more respect than dumb-dumb.

Keep in mind, in case everyone forgets in the time it took to read this message: the original question was about how truthseeker said (and I quote), "That's the ideal democracy. But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy.
The same the old communism in the USSR"
And I wanted to know if he could actually link the two.

So far, I have found him to either not be able to, not be willing to share his overwhelming genius with us or something else that would prevent him from answering my question.

Which do you think?

Hi Oyster.

I did. Here is what I found

From 1799.

In order to vindicate the character of this country for good faith and humanity, it has become necessary to render public the proceedings and correspondence between the Governments of Great Britain and France with respect to prisoners of war. By this collection of important papers it obviously appears, that all the complaints which have been made upon the subject of the treatment experienced by the prisoners, are utterly unfounded, and that the mortality which now prevails among those wretched men has arisen either from the total neglect of the French Government to suppiy them with clothing, or from their own imprudence in disposing of their provisions by gaming, and other such practices.

Yep, I hate my country now. I utterly despise it.

More
Divorce documents are among the few primary sources available to study the day-to-day lives of women in history. They are uniquely rich with details about the lives of women from a variety of social and ethnic backgrounds. The purpose of this study was to document San Diego's first divorces, to discover why women filed for divorce, and to compare these findings with those of historian Robert Griswold, who studied divorce in Northern California during the same period.

Oh sweet merciful God, why do I live in such a horrible country!?

And more

Compulsory Vaccination in England:

WITH INCIDENTAL REFERENCES TO FOREIGN STATES

BY WILLIAM TEBB

LONDON
E. W. ALLEN, 4, AVE MARIA LAMNE, E. C.

1884

I had no idea! I suppose I am just an evil, bad American.

I almost can't bear to add more

GEORGE WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL ADDRESS

To the People of the United States.

FRIENDS AND FELLOW-CITIZENS:

1 The period for a new election of a citizen, to administer the executive government of the United States, being not far distant, and the time actually arrived, when your thoughts must be employed designating the person, who is to be clothed with that important trust, it appears to me proper, especially as it may conduce to a more distinct expression of the public voice, that I should now apprize you of the resolution I have formed, to decline being considered among the number of those out of whom a choice is to be made.

A farewell address! Nooooooo!

Look, I love my country. But that dosen't mean I won't criticise it. I will criticise it, mercilessly. But reciting "US is evil, US is evil, US is evil" - where does that get anyone? No fucking where.

I am a patriot. For me, this means that I want the best for my country, and I am willing to hear of its flaws. But I am also a skeptic, and I want to see evidence of those flaws.

Bashing the US is easy. I don't know where Nelson is from, but I know that many countrys blame the US for all thier woes. In some ways, they are right. We exacerbated the mess in Central and Soulth America, our treatment of the Palestine situation leaves much to be desired (although recognition of a Palestinian state is a step in the right direction), and our actions in Veitnam and Cambodia are still hurting these countries.

That being said, little will be done to remedy these situations by sitting around and whining about how evil the US is. Any country would have done badly with the responsibilities we shouldered and still shoulder. Many would have done worse.

That is just human nature. So bash away, but remember that your worst enemy is not the US. It is you.

Oyst*R,

First, welcome to sciforums!! :)

Second... I'm happy that there's someone awake in this thread. If Tyler tries to change your mind, believe in what your teacher said. You are right. Everything that you said is true. I found it out by myself long time ago. Don't be intimidated by anyone. They don't have no idea... they live in another word...

Yes... it's very tiring repeat the same thing on and on...

Tyler,

I didn't even read your post. I don't have time. Besides that, I know you are only blaming me and pointing out my imperfections, like my bad English. If you can't discuss without personal attacks better not discuss with you at all. Listen to what Oyst*R said. I said the same and continue saying the same. Now I have someone else awaken in this thread. That's really good. :)

Thanks Oyst*R!! :)

Love,
Nelson

More disrespect shown to me and the others in this forum.

It appears you can't stand the heat.

Here's my advise to you: leave and never come back. No one will ever believe you because you refuse to actually debate. Why do you come here anyway? You won't change anyone's mind because you dont show any evidence (or even argue the point in question!), and your mind will never be changed because you don't read posts or listen to evidence or facts. So why come here?

Oyster is different than you, Oyster uses examples and evidence.

And in my last large post basically all I said was:

You never answered the original question. Can you answer it now?

Except I said it MANY times and proved to you in many ways what the original question was.

Tyler,

Here's my advise to you: leave and never come back. No one will ever believe you because you refuse to actually debate. Why do you come here anyway? You won't change anyone's mind because you dont show any evidence (or even argue the point in question!), and your mind will never be changed because you don't read posts or listen to evidence or facts. So why come here?

Many people agree with me and understand what I say... Why only because you I should stop talking...? :bugeye:

Oyster is different than you, Oyster uses examples and evidence.

The difference is that you're not intelligent enough to understand my point... I'm losing my time with you because I explain on and on the same thing, giving the same evidences and you can't see it even though it's in front of your eyes.
I can't continue. If you pay attention in other threads, I have lots of mensages to answer and that people want to listen.

Good Luck,
Nelson

You're sooooooo dumb it's amazing me.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever (how many times shoudl I say it?) came close to even discussing my original question to you. It's shockingly hilarious to me.

I literally rolled around on the floor laughing for 5 minutes when I read your last message.

And by the way, in case you havent noticed, oyster is the only person to back you yet.

Read my last long message. Maybe you'll figure out what my original question was becuase you weren't smart enough to figure out what it was the last 5 times I asked it.

CAN YOU - IN ANY WAY - LINK THE MODERN DEMOCRACY IN RELATION TO THE IDEAL DEMOCRACY TO USSR COMMUNISM IN RELATION TO IDEAL COMMUNISM????

That was the original, and still present, question. Now, the last time I asked it you said "no need to bring communism in!" BUT HTAT WAS THE ORIGINAL POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here. Let me quote you seeing as you wont go read my last long post as you're not smart enough to read that much.

"That's the ideal democracy. But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy.
The same the old communism in the USSR..."

Then I said: can you show us a link between the two? Do you have any evidence

Since then you have refused to actually answer my question. Which is amazing.

Now, before you fucking tell me that you've already proved the stupid question, I suggest you go read my last long post which sums up our entire conversation up to this point. In there you will notice that you have NEVER ONCE mentioned communism. Now, unless you're some kind of miracle worker that can prove a two-sided debate with only discussing the one side, you stil lhave not come close to proving or even discussing my question!!!!!

Tyler,

And by the way, in case you havent noticed, oyster is the only person to back you yet.

You can see in other threads that there are LOTS of people that agree with my ideas because they UNDERSTAND when I talk...

I proved it without Communism. Communism was just a comparison. As the ideal communism created by Markx wasn't applied in the USSR. Instead, a Militaristic Communism was applied. If you read the ideas of Markx, it would be more like "Utopia" then Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations"...

Love,
Nelson

Okay, how about we take a lesson in English here.

Tyler: "Can you show how your comment about Communist Russia is the same as American Democracy in relation to their original ideals?"

Truthseeker: "Communism was just an example, I have proven that without communism."

No, you moron, that's my question. Can you PROVE this. Do you have EVIDENCE that communism in Russia is the same as democracy in America????

In the rest of your thread you started a very simpletonistic answer to my question. So I will address it (as that is how one debates).

'As the ideal communism created by Markx wasn't applied in the USSR.'

- There is more than one 'ideal' way of doing every kind of political manner. In fact, your good friend Marx (note: no k) WAS NOT the only backing for the beginning of communism in Russia. Leninist-Marxist theory was the beginning of CCCP communism. Then it became Stalinistic as he perversed the theories. Then Mao did it to China.... It goes on and on. The fact is, theories change over time. Democracy has changed over time. Would you like to still be living in a nation where only white heterosexual wealthy males can vote? No? Well that's original Democracy!

"Instead, a Militaristic Communism was applied"

- No, not until Stalin. And by that point it was 35 years into communism in Soviet Union. Think how much Democracy has changed over the last 35 years. Hey truthseeker, could Natives vote in 1967? How about gay rights? Were they up there? Will Democracy not change over 35 years?

If you're trying to prove that the Soviet Union destroyed the original theory of communism, bravo. You've just done the same thing as every human being since Stalin got in power. But if you're saying they did the same to communism that Yanks did to Democracy? In what way? In that both of them have deviated from original theory? That's like saying 1 is different from 24. Anyone on Earth could tell you that. Know why? Because it happens to EVERY political theory.

"If you read the ideas of Markx, it would be more like "Utopia" then Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations"..."

- Marx didn't invision utopia. That was left to people who believed in a utopian society. Marx's intentions were to bring Russia into the modern world (that is, industrialy), create economic and socioeconomic equality and give the people power. Secondly, as both I and Oyster have said, CCCP communism was not based on Marxism.


"I have not found any effective method of dealing with the purely irrational people such as Truthseeker, apart from simply ignoring them. I just hope they don’t get their hands on nuclear weapons. Bin Laden was of the same ilk, and his actions have been bad enough."
- Cris

"I personally consider Truthseeker to be a master debater. -little laughing sign-"
- (Q)

"-Laughing sign-"
- Goofyfish in response to previous message


Oyster supports you not having to prove points, that's all. And that America has changed democracy. He also pointed out to you that Marxism is NOT ussr communism. You keep ignoring that. Also, while Oyster may think you don't have to prove your points, you'll notice 99% of us here do not follow that doctrine.

You continue to ignore my original question.

Here it is (in case you have forgetten since earlier in this post):

Do you have EVIDENCE that communism in Russia is the same as democracy in America????

I ask this question because you said, and I quote: "That's the ideal democracy. But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy.
The same the old communism in the USSR... "

You will notice that YOU, (YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU) CLEARLY (CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY) make a link between the perversion of Democracy in the U.S. and the Communism in Russia. I AM ASKING - CAN YOU PROVE THIS?

If you tell me one more time that you can prove it without discussing communism than you have to leave because you don't understand english enough. If you make a comment that links two things, you MUST discuss both to prove the comment.

If I said 'Apples are like Oranges' and then proved it by saying 'Apples are red!', would you say I proved my point??? I sure as hell hope not.

And if you use Marxism to prove your point than you need to go read some history as well as politics. Communist Russia WAS NOT based on Marxism.

The way Tyler and Truthseeker go at each other, I suspect they really dig each other. A bit of too-much-denial type flirting maybe?

Sorry guys, just joking. :p

well... "they" do say that opposites attract! ;) :D

Peace.

Welcome Oyst*R,
/agree Oyst*R
/agree TruthSeeker

TY :)

Tyler,

No, you moron, that's my question. Can you PROVE this. Do you have EVIDENCE that communism in Russia is the same as democracy in America????

Was only a comparation of how ideologies are very bad used...

Sorry, I have no time for this pointless debate.

Anything, ask for Oyst*R or GRO$$. They understand what I'm talking about...

Love,
Nelson

You made a comment and I asked a question about it.

You have refused now to discuss your comment.

God ol' fanatics.

Tyler, im sorry, please sexplain what you mean... maybe I havent spent enough time reading through this thread, but I can't grasp what you are saying...

It's aimed at truthseeker.

You see, his original comment said that the U.S. has done to democracy what USSR did to marxism (ignore for a second that CCCP communism was NOT based on Marxism). I asked him then if he could actually show evidence of that.

So far he has done the following:

told me that democracy means EVERYONE votes on EVERYTHING (which is flat out wrong).

told me that democracy has perversed by the U.S. in search for power over actual democracy.

told me that he doesnt need to discuss communism in order to prove his original question

told me he already proved his point

not read my posts



That's why!

??????

What?

Tyler,

My teacher got this from a book. Unfortunatly, I forgot to ask him the name of the book...

"Neither Smith's nor Markx's ideas have ever been practised exactly as they were expressed."

That's what they have in common. Understood now? Hope so...

Love,
Nelson

I understand. But the statement, while true, is meaningless.

Unlses you've missed it the past 8 times, communism in the USSR was not based on Marx.
Here, maybe you'll get it if I put it this way:

C
O
M
M
U
N
I
S
M

I
N

T
H
E

U
S
S
R

W
A
S

N
O
T

B
A
S
E
D

O
N

M
A
R
X
I
S
M
!
!
!


Get it yet?? I sure hope so. Either that or you really need to learn how to read.

And Smith is definetly not the originator of democracy!! And if he was, would you really think that ANY political system would hold up EXACTLY as original for over 200 years in modern and post-modern societies?

That's why the comment is just plain stupid.

By the way, please don't come in here and argue politics based on what your teacher tells you. My teacher told me espionage wasn't part of the cold war. And 'my teacher said so' is not evidence of anything, just for future knowledge.

And like I said long ago - if your original comment was just that both systems changed over time, don't bother saying it. That's like going into the middle of a debate between two physicists and saying 'did you know 1 plus 1 is two?'. The comment basically is what I had figured out by the age of 10 (incidentally, which is when I first read the manifesto. Er.... tried to read the manifesto).

Once again, in case you have forgetten since earlier in the post (and the last, oh, about 6 posts I've made and the one Oyster {who you apparently respect} made); COMMUNISM IN THE USSR WAS NOT BASED ON MARXISM.

And.

DEMOCRACY WAS NOT ONLY ABOUT SMITH!

and.

EVERY POLITICAL SYSTEM WILL DEVIATE OVER TIME.

get it yet???

Tyler,

I said those things!

COMMUNISM IN THE USSR WAS NOT BASED ON MARXISM!!!


That was EXACTLY my point!The ideologies are not applied. Instead, the ideas are twisted!

By the way, please don't come in here and argue politics based on what your teacher tells you. My teacher told me espionage wasn't part of the cold war. And 'my teacher said so' is not evidence of anything, just for future knowledge.

I have books to back him up...

DEMOCRACY WAS NOT ONLY ABOUT SMITH!

That's for sure... :bugeye:

Love,
Nelson

By the way, please don't come in here and argue politics based on what your teacher tells you. My teacher told me espionage wasn't part of the cold war. And 'my teacher said so' is not evidence of anything, just for future knowledge.

That is so sad. Don't misunderstand: it is true, I have noticed that what my history teacher teaches the class is about 25% facts and 75% opinion... its very, very sad :(

GRO$$,

That is so sad. Don't misunderstand: it is true, I have noticed that what my history teacher teaches the class is about 25% facts and 75% opinion... its very, very sad

Where do you live? In the US, that's very common. In Brazil and Canada, the teachers even ask our opinion! They only give the facts and let us analize them! My teacher of Social Studies even TOLD this to us. He only give us the facts but he NEVER passes his opinions (unless we ask him or he tells us that is his opinion...).

Love,
Nelson

US.

Something that comes to mind is how often he is talking about a place and all of the sudden makes a grimace and sais "wow, this is a really nasty place to live. I would really hate to live here... chris, would you want to live in this nasty place?" he likes to then go through several students, thereby proving the point of how nasty of a place this is...

i find it quite ... dont know the word for it ... its annoying, as far as i think...

Is the place allways outside the US?
Coincidently, my teacher told me exactly that today... teachers in US are used to do that...

Love,
Nelson

haha, yea... of course it is... nothing bad, evil, or negative can exist inside of the US... the US is the best place in the world... why would anyone want to live anywhere else?

Were you brainwashed or you are being sarcastic...? :D:D

sarcastic, but it is not far from the truth... a surprisingly large percentage of the population believes exactly what i said.

Yeah, I know...
An there are some here!!

Truthseeker: For one, teachers in Canada are not as bad as U.S., but still horrible. We're given the facts that they want us to have. Look at your civics text book. Two sentances on communism in a 180 page book about government and government history? Zero pages on Americans backing Nazi's? They tell you what they want you to know.

So your infinitely wise comment was that Marxism was not the base of Communist Russia? Oh bravo, should I repeat the '1 plus 1 equals 2' comment?

'That was EXACTLY my point!The ideologies are not applied. Instead, the ideas are twisted!'

That's an infinitely stupid comment. And sounds like a very Christian thing to say. 'No revising from the originator! You cannot change what has already been written!'

Marxist-Leninist theory is REVISED Marxism. That means they CHANGED IT. FOR A REASON. Lenin didn't think Marxism would work (incidentally, Marx didn't think Marxism would work). And besides that, the Manifesto doesn't even tell you how to run the government. It just says what Marx thinks the world is like at the point he wrote it and what he thinks will happen to change it.

You're original comment: 'America has done to democracy what old ussr did to communism'

Note, you used the word 'Communism'. NOT the word 'Marxism'.

Marxism and Communism are not interchangeable words. Only an idiot who hasn't read his communist history or theories would say that Marxism and Communism are the same thing. If you look in the dictionary, the three definitions are as follows:

"1) A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

2) a - A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

b - The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat"

In case you haven't noticed yet, the word Marxist-Leninist is used in there. NOT MARXIST!!!!!

Because COMMUNISM was BASED on MARXIST-LENINIST theory.



You have books to back up that communism wasn't based on Marxism? Are these books by chance entitled 'Tyler Cohen's Grade 7 History Class Notes'??? Because that's when I learned communism was based on Marxist-Leninist theory, not Marxism.


So let me get this straight and then tell you again how brilliant you are. Your comment ("But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy. The same the old communism in the USSR...") was basically to say that Communist Russia was not based solely on Marxism and Democratic America was not based solely on Smithism? And you link these by saying thta both nations deviated from the original theories (ignoring that Smith was no where near the first democratical philosopher)?

Like I said, you jumped into a conversation between two physicists and said 'hey, did you know one plus one is two???'

Tyler,

They tell you what they want you to know.

I know that... that's exactly what I said...
I dont' know why you allways repeat my own ideas... :rolleyes:

Like I said, you jumped into a conversation between two physicists and said 'hey, did you know one plus one is two???'

It was important to answer the question...
Come back and read the question...

Love,
Nelson

"In Brazil and Canada, the teachers even ask our opinion! They only give the facts and let us analize them!"

That's what you said. By the way, if you had any analyzational skills you would have noticed by now that the text books analyze things for you. So the canadian government does tell you your opinion.

And they dont give you all the facts.

Both statements are correct...

What I said is that in US...

They tell you what they want you to know.

In Brazil and Canada...

In Brazil and Canada, the teachers even ask our opinion! They only give the facts and let us analize them!

Love,
Nelson

thats sooo bad tho... america is being raised to be a very nationalistic, even anti-outsider country...

Europeans don't bathe enough and their women don't shave.
Russians/Chinese are damned sucker commies.
Chinese, Indians (from India) Africans are all starving and overpopulated.
Middle Easterners are all evil religious fanatics with guns that hate us for no reason.
Canadians are our backward neighbors, all they have are park rangers and large forest animals.
Mexicans are dirty and poor, only good for cutting lawns.

This is an exagerated view US has on the rest of the world... :-P

What this might lead to, in my opinion, is WW3...

And I'm telling you, the education in Canada is not that good! They don't give yo uall the facts!

I live in Canada man, and have all my life. Except one year!

Tyler, you might appreciate a book called 'Lies my teacher told me' about the American educational system and the way history is taught. Don't remember the author offhand.

I agree with you on the Canadian educational system, even though I've never been to a Canadian high school. I think most educational systems are probably like that.

It is easier to teach "Our country is the greatest and most wonderful country in existance" than to teach the whole truth. It is pretty much one of the functions of an 'educational' system to program kids to be patriotic automatons.

That's a great book!
From personal experience, I think our education system is better than the U.S.

But like I said, both hide truth.

Xev,

It is easier to teach "Our country is the greatest and most wonderful country in existance" than to teach the whole truth. It is pretty much one of the functions of an 'educational' system to program kids to be patriotic automatons.

Brazil and Canada dont' say they are the gratest in the world...

Love,
Nelson

Nelson:
Brazil and Canada dont' say they are the gratest in the world...

Neither do the US's, in so many words....it is much more subtle than that. A country's bad past actions are not covered as much as its good past actions.

Tyler: You're probably right. The American system is so bad it's scary! Why, 75% of our adults do not know that antibiotics kill bacteria but not viruses!

*Sigh*

Things are not so bad as Gro$$'s hysteria would lead you to believe, but it is bad.

(And come on, I know enough Brits and Canadians to describe your stereotype of an American ;) : Gun crazy, willfully ignorent of other languages, slightly cracker-ish and of the "We saved your ass in WW2" persuasion )

I hated brazil when I was there. Then again, I hated south american culture for the most part.

Canada does say it's the greatest. Not as a nation, but as people. And we do a fair amount of stereotyping ourselves.

Look at the two most recent Molson Canadian commericals:

- "Ohhhh you're from Canada right? So do you know Glenn, from Canada? He works in an office, plays hockey, says 'eh' a lot!?!?"

- "Heyyyy, it's the Canadian guy. Mr. Canuck. Where's your beaver? Hahaha"

We stereotype Americans by thinking they all stereotype us.

(note to all Canadians: I know 'office glenn')

We also stereotype American intelligence. As well as that whole southern thing.

Canadians also view our nation as one of the more democratic on Earth, while that's simply not true. Politically, we are a rather pathetic nation. I'd say the only stint of time I would have pride in our nation (outside of hockey, lacrosse, comedy and other non-political things) is the Trudeau era. He made us a nation, and an interesting one at that. Since then we've done pretty much piss all. We don't alter the world in any great way. We don't do anything international.

We just....are!

Inside the country, we are a land of much freedom. But NO WHERE NEAR the freedom of other nations or what should be. Though I would never actually say it, I would like to have the ability to say the word 'nigger' and not get hugely assaulted for it. A friend of mine for art drew a sketch with a swastika in it (the picture did have a meaning, ironically it was to show how people can't deal with discussing controversy) and got suspended. Is that freedom?

Tyler,

I hated brazil when I was there. Then again, I hated south american culture for the most part.

Most people absolutly Love us...
You can ask anyone...

Love,
Nelson

Not most of the group I was there with.

The Amazon was beautiful, no doubt. And it's not the land I have naything against, it's gorgeous, it's the people.

People there are very, how do I put this, intense. People are loud and intense. And very insistent. Not laid back enough.

I have cousins in Argentina who I've had the chance to visit too.

I prefer something like France or Austria or Switzerland. Or Finland or Sweden! Or Denmark!

I know what you mean...
I'm not very intemse too... I'm very calm...
I Love other places too...

But Brazilians are absolutly sweet! :)

Love,
Nelson

Actually you're pretty insistent yourself.

Being 17 (or I believe it was 17 you said) and thinking (nay, telling us) that you have all the answers and understand the world perfectly.

Now I'm 18...

And I understand myself much better then you understand the world... ;)
The world... I'm understanding better each day...
Experiencing Life... :)

Love,
Nelson