Can anyone complete this equation:
H2O + ??? ---> CO2 + ???
With my very limited knowledge of chemistry i think the solution is this:
4H2O + 2C ---> 2CO2 + 4H2^

What do you think?

ColdFusion

Can anyone complete this equation:
H2O + ??? ---> CO2 + ???
With my very limited knowledge of chemistry i think the solution is this:
2H2O + C ---> CO2 + 2H2^

What do you think?

ColdFusion

The equation balances but you cannot stick a carbon rod in water and decompose it.
Ask for a chemistry thread here. I will back you.

Earlier I suggested that this forum be renamed to include chemistry. It is my minor.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15514

Actually I have no clue about chemistry... I hated it in school but i think that was mostly because of my teacher, i've hated that bitch ;) hehe...

I was just thinking if it is possible to make air from water. And if it is possible to make a scuba of some sort, that works that way...

Just wondering...:confused: Thanks for the support anyway ;)

ColdFusion

ColdFusion,

My chemistry isn't that good either, but try putting carbonic acid in your formula (H2 CO3).

You don't get a chemical reaction, but the chemical formula does equate.

Tom

It'll be like this: (I assume...)

H2O + 2H2CO3 ---> 2CO2 + 3H2^

Hmm I don't know if these reactions are possible... It seems that we've to wait for someone that actually knows chemistry to get more further... ;)

ColdFusion

ColdFusion,

The reaction would be:

H2O + H2CO3 -> CO2 + 2H2O

Tom

Yeah thanks just found out that it was bullshit what i've wrote... :rolleyes:

ColdFusion

Okay have a look at this:
http://newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99661.htm

ColdFusion

Carbonic acid in water: H2CO3 + 2H20 = CO3 + 2H3O

Carbonic acid forms when CO2 dissolves in water and will spontaneously break down into CO2 and H20.

H2O + CO2 = H2CO3

Equilibrium lies heavily on the side of the water and CO2.

Isn't it that way::
H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

So it is possible to make air out of water. And as i assume it's not that hard as i thought it could be.

ColdFusion

Originally posted by ColdFusion
I was just thinking if it is possible to make air from water. And if it is possible to make a scuba of some sort, that works that way...
Submarines get oxygen by electrolyses of sea water.
2H20 -> 2H2 + O2
You can't get any more basic than that! But it takes a lot of electricity, so I doubt that it would work for SCUBA.

Sorry, H2CO3 + 2H20 = CO3 + 2H3O is for the acidic disassociation of carbonic acid in water. My bad.

Originally posted by ColdFusion
Isn't it that way::
H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

So it is possible to make air out of water. And as i assume it's not that hard as i thought it could be.Um...this is right, but it doesn't make air. Just CO2 and water.

But doesn't we breathe air (CO2) and not just oxygene?
What do you mean by just CO2 and water?

ColdFusion

The reaction produces carbon dioxide gas and water. Our air is mainly oxygen and nitrogen; there isn't too much CO2. The oxygen is all that really matters. You could breath pure oxygen if you wanted, or oxygen mixed with some other gas like argon. My point was that the reaction doesn't give you anything that you can breath.

Thanks :)
As i said I wasn't very good at chemistry. I'm sorry for my stupid questions:rolleyes:

Is there an other way of makeing oxygene out of water that doesn't need so much electricity?
H2O + ??? --> O2 +???

And how much electricity does the way you suggested takes?

ColdFusion

Originally posted by Nasor
You could breath pure oxygen if you wanted
Except you'll experience central nervous system oxygen toxicity at any depth greater than 20 feet of sea water, or a PPO2 greater than 1.6 ATA.
or oxygen mixed with some other gas like argon.
Except that argon has a very high lipid solubility and will lead to severe narcosis at depth.

- Warren

I'm not sure how much electricity it takes to break down water, but the short answer is 'a lot.' You could search for "disassociation energy of water" to find it if you're curious.

You might also be interested in a type of SCUBA technology called 'rebreathers' that recycle and reuse the oxygen in the tank to allow you to stay under water for a very, very long time. They're used by special forces because they allow you to swim long distances underwater and don't produce any bubbles like conventional SCUBA gear.

Doh! You're right on both points choot. Thanks for the correction.

Originally posted by Nasor
They're used by special forces
And cave divers. :)

- Warren

And cost a hell lot of money!!:eek:
Anyway thanks for the info very much ;)

ColdFusion

Originally posted by Nasor
I'm not sure how much electricity it takes to break down water, but the short answer is 'a lot.'

I'd have to dissagree, in junior high we did a very simple experiment of electrolisis (you know, breakin down water into its components) and all we used was 9v battery (of course there wasn't much water to begin with so maybe that has something to dou with it...)

(we also accelarated the rustin' process [addin oxigen] we did it to a paper clip ;))

but i maybe we thought we did electrolisis and did something else, but i'm pretty sure we got it right. if anybody can prove me wrong, you are welcome to do so....

:bugeye: are you sure about that?

H2O + ??? ---> CO2 + ???

let's see. we surely need C, but probably not 2C or C2. offcourse: it is possible: but you probably want the most logical molecules:

H2O + CO(-) + O2 ---> CO2 + H2O2(-)

All these molecules are pretty normal in our environment.
but again: there are many-many possibilities.

Why do you want to know this?

Originally posted by ColdFusion

Is there an other way of makeing oxygene out of water that doesn't need so much electricity?
H2O + ??? --> O2 +???


Water brakes down in high temperature (2000 Deg. C):

H₂O -> 2H_2(g) + O_2(g)

So with some physics you can also find out how much electricity it takes to break down water into its components (I'm not sure how to do it, but I'm pretty sure you can. Something to do with energy and temperature, blah blah blah)

Water also reacts with non-metallic elements releasing oxygen. For example:

2F₂ + 2H₂O = 4HF + O₂

Of course, you cannot breathe pure oxygen, as it has allready been mentioned. You have to mix it up with various gases to create the air you breathe.
The composition of air in the atmospheric pressure we're used to is 78.08% N, 20.95% O, 0.93% Ar, 0.03% CO₂ and small amounts of other gases like Ne, He, Kr, Xe, CH₄, H₂O vapor and others. This changes as pressure increses (or decreases).

I've posted that in an other thread so if you're interested have a look at this:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15559

ColdFusion

Originally posted by BloodSuckingGerbile

Water also reacts with non-metallic elements releasing oxygen. For example:

2F₂ + 2H₂O = 4HF + O₂

Of course, you cannot breathe pure oxygen, as it has allready been mentioned. You have to mix it up with various gases to create the air you breathe.
The composition of air in the atmospheric pressure we're used to is 78.08% N, 20.95% O, 0.93% Ar, 0.03% CO₂ and small amounts of other gases like Ne, He, Kr, Xe, CH₄, H₂O vapor and others. This changes as pressure increses (or decreases).

So oxygene can be made easy... But then to make air, N is much more important. And because N isn't found in water then we can't make air from water. :(

ColdFusion

H2O + CO + O2 ---> CO2 + H2O2
must indeed be ofcourse:
H2O + CO -> CO2 + H2


If I had taken a little moment I would have seen that I could scrap O2 from both sides.
I am banging my head against my monitor right now.

ok, sorry for this post, but I had to mention my own "stupidness" (if that's an existing word)

Strangely enough, some people have tried diving with hydrox -- a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. It's fine biologically, but has a couple of serious drawbacks -- for most mixtures, it's highly explosive, and hydrogen generally conducts heat away from the diver so rapidly that he goes hypothermic.

If you could electrolyze the water, and discard most of the oxygen so that you obtain a hydrogen-oxygen mixture, one could breath it for a while -- until they blow themselves to smithereens or freeze to death.

The other approach is to bring your own supply of inert gas, like helium or nitrogen, and use the water as a reservoir of oxygen. This is a rebreather. Current rebreathers utilize a bottle of oxygen and a bottle of inert gas (most often with some percent of oxygen premixed for safety in case the oxygen bottle fails). As the person breaths, he extracts oxygen from the breathing loop and expires water and carbon dioxide. The rebreather chemically removes the carbon dioxide, lets any condensed water leave the loop, and adds oxygen as necessary to maintain a healthy PPO2.

Instead of carrying around an oxygen tank, you could carry around an electrolyzer, pulling the oxygen from the water as you need it. You'll need a large energy source, though. You're better off carrying around a bottle of oxygen (which can be thought of as work already done) than carrying around a battery (with energy to do work to obtain oxygen).

It may eventually be possible to use some sort of membrane which allows carbon dioxide to pass from the breathing bag to the water, and dissolved oxygen to pass from the water to breathing bag. This would be the best solution, period, for diving apparatus. The problem is that the membrane would have to be ENORMOUS to be able to pull enough dissolved oxygen from the water to support a human being. We humans are warm blooded and require a large amount of power -- about 100 watts.

- Warren

Originally posted by chroot
Instead of carrying around an oxygen tank, you could carry around an electrolyzer, pulling the oxygen from the water as you need it. You'll need a large energy source, though. You're better off carrying around a bottle of oxygen (which can be thought of as work already done) than carrying around a battery (with energy to do work to obtain oxygen).

Well I'll just wait for the batteries to become smaller and more powerfull then. :)

Don't you think that batteries compared to other technology are very underdeveloped? Just a thought ;)

ColdFusion

ColdFusion,

Please don't cross post the same things to different forums. It is not considered good netiquette here.

When i found out that the topics about chemistry have to be posted in the Physics & Math forums I tryed to delete the other one but I couldn't (for some strange reason :confused: )
I linked it here so that the other post could 'die out'.
I realy tryed to delete the other one, there weren't any posts in it so I don't know why I couldn't.

Sorry about that.

ColdFusion

only mods can delete threads