...are the dumb merely become more vocal/active as society progresses?

Many fret over the perceived 'loss' of influence by the cortex, yet, after thinking hard about it, we the intelligentsia have lost nothing.

True, Hollywood churns out rubbish, but that's always been the case. Talk to me about the brilliance of 'Star Wars'? I'll give you 'The Lord of the Rings'. We SEEM to be "suddenly" tolerating our leaders being unethical crooks, but again, this is nothing new - for Bush fixing elections, I give you Nixon. For Clinton banging Monica, I give you Kennedy banging Marilyn.

We clearly haven't LOST anything. The works of Shelley, Keats, Mozart, Steinbeck, Picasso are still with us, and while I concede that they are not being superceded as regularly as 5, 10 or even 20 years ago, nobody holds a gun to our heads and FORCES us to buy, listen to or watch crap. Popular music is, frankly, unoriginal and panders to the basest whims - much like many other things in these post-millenial days, but a music industry pundit might quietly reveal that this is merely a knee-jerk to extract margin from the only demographic without easy access to P2P applications - 10-14 year olds whose parents have too little time, and are willing to use their spare cash to buy time via purchasing distractions for their kids.

And of course, there's the internet, which has done more to democratise the availability of information than any form of media since the printing press.

I notice that kids toady seem to lack the creativity of thought their parents possessed at the same age. I attribute this to information overload, both in terms of the changing quality and quantity of scholastic workload.

No, I don't think we're being dumbed down - I just think the great unwashed are getting noisier.


Jaybee

*Claps*
Excellent!

Generally the "classics" give us a false sense of what things once were. The best of the art world is preserved, while the crap eventually is forgotten.

The vulgar may have gotten louder, indeed, but there is still good work to be found. One simply has to look a bit harder and be a bit more disciplined.

...are the dumb merely become more vocal/active as society progresses?

Many fret over the perceived 'loss' of influence by the cortex, yet, after thinking hard about it, we the intelligentsia have lost nothing.

Good post.


I think it's more a case that many of the educated, or who you referred to as the "intelligentsia", have merely retreated to the sidelines. The world has become enamoured with the lowly uneducated many, or the battler, who beats the odds and the educated to reach the upper echelons. The dumb usually feel uncomfortable with people or leaders who are educated and tend to gravitate towards those who compete against them, as though to send the message that they are destroying what they perceive to be the class barrier or social barrier. In the process, they have failed to realise or acknowledge the fact that the masters of the past were not always from the upper echelons of society.

As Xev has pointed out to you above, there is a lot of excellent work out there, you just have to know where and how to look.

And of course, there's the internet, which has done more to democratise the availability of information than any form of media since the printing press.
Unfortunately, regardless of the variety of information available on the internet, most prefer to only search for what is popular on the day.

I notice that kids toady seem to lack the creativity of thought their parents possessed at the same age. I attribute this to information overload, both in terms of the changing quality and quantity of scholastic workload.
True. But then again, many of the parents did not have it as easy as their children. They had to invent their games. They had to actually research for their school work, etc. Kids today merely enter a term in a search engine and the information becomes available to them. Hell, they merely have to enter an essay topic into a search engine and they can use daddy's credit card and buy an essay if they so choose. Children today have become lazy, and their lack of creativity and thought can be attributed to that laziness. It's too easy now, so they just don't bother.

Dumbing down and smartening up is a cycle. From the late 1950s through the early 1970s, a whole lot of people were complaining that America had gotten too intellectual, that good old-fashioned stupid fun was out of style.

They griped that the arts had been taken over by elitists. Bands like Yes, Rush, Genesis, and Pink Floyd played songs in 7/4 and 11/4 time signatures and people could tap their feet to it. Comic strips made references to classical literature. Art and poetry became so abstract that nobody knew what any of it meant but that didn't stop us from arguing over it long into the night. Movies were overloaded with layer upon layer of imagery. We actually got the government to end a war before achieving its goal of destroying an entire continent in order to save it.

Now the average university graduate reads at the level that used to be called "fifth grade." Pop music is dominated by hip-hop tunes with words primarily of one syllable and often only four letters. People think SUVs are safer than flying. Politicians distract them by inflaming ethnic rivalries in the Middle East, when the single greatest issue facing this country -- the rapid emergence of China as the world's leading economic power by entirely peaceful means -- isn't even on the agenda.

It's just a cycle. I guess people just can't stand to do a lot of heavy thinking for too many years in a row. Their brains get tired. This will pass, you young people will see another intellectual renaissance.

Heh, you know, that reminds me of some people I went to school with. They managed to read no books, except those that were subject in the lessons.
They were also unable to understand references to older books or well known myths/sagas, at least important considering the German past.
They were extremely superficial and scorned those who did: a)not match there opinion b) actually reads books c)do not conform to their trends and ideals.

And those people did not use their brain to a great extend, never did. Their brains must be quite relaxed...

As to the politicians, they are bickering like kids, trying to lay the blame upon their contestant to win an election. From what I see of political debates (not only in America, also here in Germany) the current speeches are not really filled with important matters, their point is to dress down the oponent while winning over the (simple minded) crowd.

Similarities can also be found in music and visual art. It is just about earning money or holding power/influence while improving the self image.

I do not know if people are actually getting dumber or just more self centered and lazy.

Lazyness, another point. Our society gives too many comforts to the people. You don´t want to go shopping? Well, just go and order it via internet. You want to impress your neighbor? Then you need a big ass SUV or a (virtually useless) european sports car. Reading a book is too boring? Who cares, switch on the TV and pop a can of beer. Is your life fucked, and you noticed it all by yourself? Still no problems, jsut buy some legal drugs as psychotherapeutic measure.

Those are reasons why our society does not consist of great thinkers and witty artist. At least these are some reasons. There are a lot more. But I suppose those I gave suffice for a start.

Those are reasons why our society does not consist of great thinkers and witty artist. At least these are some reasons. There are a lot more. But I suppose those I gave suffice for a start.

Just to play devil's advocate, now give me an entire list (not just naming a couple popular ones, otherwise it comes out even worse) of "great thinkers" and "witty artists" (and of similar professions). Now divide all those names by oh, 4 thousand years, and if we're lucky, we'll come up with one great thinker every year. One great thinker a year out of the whole world? Not good odds.

Times of today are like times of the past. We have no great thinkers or witty artists today because there weren't many in the past either. Just like the person who brought up Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, yeah, two awesome movies, but that's out of the entire history of movies, lol. The majority has always been stupid (normal) except for those rare few that have come along to help advance the dumbs way of thought. We can blame it on SUVs, TV, or any other device, but those are just excuses because people of the past had their guilty pleasures as well.

I think the reason for everyone being dumb is due to what life generally is, to work together. When we work together, we end up sharing the same thoughts, and we rise and get brought down to be an average. If we're average, we'll go no where. Be against the majority and you'll be shunned, so through peer pressure, one is forced to be like the average joe and average leaves less room for speciality. Only those freethinkers with balls that do things on their own actually advance civilization.

Now the tricky question, is "working together" the real way life should be, or is that what we think due to the idiotic masses popular thought? It should be survival of the fittest and the weak should be left behind. But hey, that's what the average joe is, one who is left behind, it only seems like they're not left behind because they're the majority. The average need to work together to survive because they can't do so on their own, they're not fit to. The average joe are the drone-like people that are the unknowing slaves (it's not slaves with rewards, it's called freedom, rofl) to the bright ones who run everything.

- N

Just to play devil's advocate, now give me an entire list (not just naming a couple popular ones, otherwise it comes out even worse) of "great thinkers" and "witty artists" (and of similar professions). Now divide all those names by oh, 4 thousand years, and if we're lucky, we'll come up with one great thinker every year. One great thinker a year out of the whole world? Not good odds.

I do not think that I will do that. It would probably take the better part of a week.


And you are right, people of the past also had their pleasures, but those were quite limited. They could visit a theater, tell some stories, read a book. And not everyone could afford it. Not generally saying that people were more intelligent back then. But more were forced to think instead of just consume.
Today´s pleasures are much easier to attain. You do not even have to work t ohave a TV and perhaps even access to a computer/internet. Given, that depends on where you live, here, a TV is something that is nearly considered a basic need. In fact, you have the right to own one, if you are unemployed it is essentially given to you by the state. Some poeple manage to get through life without lifting a finger...

And I do not think that a community consisting of mediocre and adapted persons can bring change. I believe it is not even one of their objectives. Those who are relatively well off want to keep it that way. The community is working to maintain the status quo. Progress brings insecurity, and that is a feeling most people do not like. They want to live their life in comfort, and predictability brings comfort.

Ignorance is bliss.

I think you people are too hard on Homo sapiens. You need to live for a few more decades and experience the cycles back and forth from smart to dumb.

I do agree that people in power like to keep their subjects ignorant and not inquisitive. It makes them more tractable.

This new Information Age might be a true Paradigm Shift and put an end to that cycle. Everything is available on the internet and people of every age are using it. Even older than me if you can imagine that. I have a cousin who is about 85 and he spends lots of time surfing the net.

You have to control information to control people, and the internet has made information impossible to control. Even the Chinese government can't do it.

I believe the surest way to advance intelligence in the gene pool is to rid it of those at the depths of the bell curve. Not by the uncouth methods of a Nazi style pool clean but softly directing evolution.

If we can't convince the idiotic greens of the need to recycle nuclear waste we don't bury it. Instead we take it to a desert and dump it all in a big pile with warning signs in all languages everywhere. ENTER AND YOU WILL DIE.

Anyone entering dies. Evolution in process. Nice and simple.

;)

Society is definately being dumbed down. The entire mass education system is a joke. We teach kids in the same fashion we try to teach dogs and while some similarities do exist we must try and understand that intelligent beings don't react well to being talked down to. In fact the most anti-authoritarian students are often the most intelligent. They grow up to become the radicalists who overthrow governments and eventually run nations. For some bizarre reason we equate obedience with intelligence and that is just too wrong in so many different ways its not funny. The class room bell rings and like Pavlovs dog the kids are expected to drop whatever they are doing and run. The human mind works best when allowed to explore and that takes time. One hour of math followed by Art then PhysEd and Lunch then Sociology doesn't allow kids the chance to even dip their feet in the water before being herded towards some other subject matter.

All schools are really designed to do is teach kids to be loyal unprotesting obedient citizens. That other stuff is mostly forgotten before the holidays even start.

One hour of math followed by Art then PhysEd and Lunch then Sociology doesn't allow kids the chance to even dip their feet in the water before being herded towards some other subject matter.

And due to Bush's No Child Left Behind Act, they're only taught math and reading, just so they can pass some stupid test. They're taught that learning isn't important, it's the tests that are important.
USA's public educational system is going down the hole.

I think you people are too hard on Homo sapiens. You need to live for a few more decades and experience the cycles back and forth from smart to dumb.

I do agree that people in power like to keep their subjects ignorant and not inquisitive. It makes them more tractable.

This new Information Age might be a true Paradigm Shift and put an end to that cycle. Everything is available on the internet and people of every age are using it. Even older than me if you can imagine that. I have a cousin who is about 85 and he spends lots of time surfing the net.

You have to control information to control people, and the internet has made information impossible to control. Even the Chinese government can't do it.

That's what pisses me off about the Net, it USED to be a playground for the elite, with lowbrow content the exception, not the rule. Oh how the pendulum has swung the other way!

Moreover, people of your cousins generation are annoyingly hard to find on the web. This is just the demographic we need; older, MUCH wiser, and still savvy enough to learn new tricks like computers. The few older people I 'encounter' on the web are absolute goldmines of salient fact and wisdom, but perhaps I should say 'gold nuggets', because of how sparse they are compared to the annoying blight of 40-something housewives and 20-something unemployed/college students with next to zero experience on the cutting edges.

I disagree somewhat with your last statement, however; you try finding out the real practicalities of wealth accumulation on the Internet. Not platitudes, not gimmicks but intricately detailed financial plans, practical 'how-to's. You will find damn few, because those who are following them keep extremely hush about them.

It's a somewhat self-deprecating statement to make, but I'll say it out loud; people who are on those cutting edges I mentioned are too busy forging ahead to publish their findings on websites. There exists a relationship of inverse propotionality between quantity and quality of output on the Net, much like in most areas of life.

The really worthwhile data is as hard to get at as it ever was.