Our eyes are windows to the exterior world,what I've seen on Brain story(the mind of our eye episode) they say environment we see might be an illusion.I say it's not.Light comes to our eyes and reflexes back,that's why we see!
And we see the world how it really looks like,although we don't see the entire world because we can't see UV,infrared,gamma radiation,x-rays and etc...
What do you think?

Me too (most of the time!:D )

Light comes to our eyes and reflexes back,that's why we see! What do you mean??

Incidently the light that is focused onto the retina, the part of the eye thought to be responsible for us actually 'seeing', is received upside down (and back-to-front too i believe). This must mean that the brain has someway of co-ordinating this information so that we can 'see' the world as it really is.

if someone wears special glasses that turns the world upside down that the wearer needs some time to get used to the new upsidedown world, but sooner or later the brain corrects the image again.

To answer the original question...Is the world what we see around us real or it's an illusion?... I would have to say that even if the brain did not flip our vision of the world, we would bump into objects and they would not be where our brain understands them to be because the world exists independent of us!! No matter how we see, or don't see it, it exists.

The world is 'real' ... How we perceive it is the 'illusion'.

:cool:

yes.

Im happy some people are understanding the illusions of the subjective , but obviously it is hard to coprehend that the world COULD be fake as hell . Why couldnt it be the other way around ? Why cant the world be fake and your illusions as colse to real as possible ?

How do u know what u experience is real ?
How do u know the world is real ?

Please tell me , i just assume it to be real , i mean if i didnt assume this typing to get on my screen , i wouldnt type obviously ........but how can u be sure it IS real ?

Nah.....proof simply doesnt exist

Nobody who survives in this world acts as though reality is an illusion.

The above is the best argument for the world of our senses not being an illusion.

If you think otherwise, jump in front of an 18-wheeler and experience some bone crunching reality.

Nobody who survives in this world acts as though reality is an illusion.

The above is the best argument for the world of our senses not being an illusion.

If you think otherwise, jump in front of an 18-wheeler and experience some bone crunching reality.



Same argument can be used against this .
I mean , the only one who would still be in the illusion would be the ones who DONT jump in front of a train , u dont hear a dead guy saying well......i guess life was real .

All im saying , we know shit .

knowledge cant be proved .

Allahs_Mathematics: None who question reality are willing to act as if it does not exist. Are you an exception?

A person who questions reality has no credence with me if he/she is unwilling to act as though the world is an illusion.

Try not eating for a week or so. Cut off a finger. See how real the world seems.

If you act as though it is real, it might as well be real.

Talk costs nothing. Actions speak louder than words.

Nobody who survives in this world acts as though reality is an illusion. I mean , the only one who would still be in the illusion would be the ones who DONT jump in front of a train , u dont hear a dead guy saying well......i guess life was real . I'd say that those who understand the most about life are the ones who have accepted that life is real. The one(s) who understands this should not be throwing themselves in front of buses because the 'knowledge' that there is nothing after i.e. this is it, should be enough to keep them going. Most of lifes challenge seems to lie in accepting that this is real. Those who look for humour in everything seem to be the ones who desperately need to believe that this isn't real. Those who do not take this seriously are the ones who are so dumbfounded that they cannot grasp life.

Many of peoples problems (in my opinion) stem from making light of issues that are real and it is the fact that they will not accept them as real which causes problems in this real-life! It seems to me that the big joke of life is that it is real and some people spend most of their lives realising this. It can be a big shock being introduced to the world and no-one chooses which environment they will be born into and to some extent do not choose what they will experience in their life. However the people who real-ize (to make real) their life have more of a life than those who humiliate it by not accepting it.

Is the world what we see around us real or it's an illusion?

It is real and to become part of the world one must accept that this is true.

None who question reality are willing to act as if it does not exist. Are you an exception?

A person who questions reality has no credence with me if he/she is unwilling to act as though the world is an illusion.

Try not eating for a week or so. Cut off a finger. See how real the world seems.

If you act as though it is real, it might as well be real.

Talk costs nothing. Actions speak louder than words.



man i can exactly the same thing for u , and turn it all around , like i did before .
Simply because im not willing to try it out weither its real (cut my fingers r u crazy?) , doesnt make it anymore real or not real .
U cant prove me its real , i cant prove u it isnt
We both dont know , cant u accept ur ignorance as i have accepted mine.

because again : what does a cut finger prove , it only proves i experience pain etc , who said my mind is making all this stuff up , perhaps im lying in a bed all day dreaming about cutting my fingers , how could u possibly know this isnt so ?
U must be God then

Very true Allahs_Mathematics! I think it will be very hard for anyone to prove that this life exists but to not accept it is to deny it. Is anyone in this thread going to live their life in denial??

yup , we all simply assume our lives to be very real , otherwise we wouldnt live them .

I wouldnt type this crap if i didnt believe it was really getting on my monitor .

And there is nobody in here that assumes differently , if they would , they woudnt be in here for starters .

I wouldnt even know what to do when not assuming reality , stop breahing ? u couldnt even kill urself that way .
Even killing urself implies the assuming of reality

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yup , we all simply assume our lives to be very real , otherwise we wouldnt live them. Not everyone does!

Good point Mr_Anonymous! We are actually experiencing these different things at different speeds and therefore at different levels and priorities. Through genetic mutations (which are random so anything and everything could have arisen) we have senses, which receive different stimuli at different levels, as Anonymous said. This makes us kind of skewed beings when we imagine this, yet there could also be stimuli that we are not aware of because the senses which perceive this stimuli have not come into being. It is highly probable that there is in fact a Sixth sense and maybe even a Seventh and an Eighth etc sense which may not, or could be, present in some beings on earth. Dog's as well as other animals appear to have some extra-senses. Who knows what evolution has or will produce. Extra senses such as these will surely have an impact on evolution and life in the future. Just as those who do not have the sense to receive light or sound are less likely to survive, those who do not have the capacity to receive other sensations must surely have a lesser chance of survival.

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Originally posted by Neville
To answer the original question...... I would have to say that even if the brain did not flip our vision of the world, we would bump into objects and they would not be where our brain understands them to be because the world exists independent of us!! No matter how we see, or don't see it, it exists.

We all know the common thought: "i think, therefore i am,"
So could we also say: "I think, therfore you are?"
Could we even say: "I think, therefore EVERYTHING is?"

This may seem conceited, but maybe this world is a projection of what I think and not what you think.

I had a teacher who changed the way I originally thought. The first day he took a piece of chalk and threw it at the wall, almost hitting a girl. He then proceeded in telling us that that event never happened. We told him that we saw the chalk go across the room and hit the wall, and he asked us if we could prove that we saw that happen. The chalk never hit the wall in his opinion; it never even crossed the room and not one student or person ever faced with this situation could ever prove that it ever happened.

The human mind is so incredibly powerful that it is conceivable that 'reality,' as we call it, is a projection of the mind. As long as it believes, then it exists and is true.

I will never bump into things i don't see unless I have my eyes closed. If I don't see it, hear it, smell it, taste it, feel it, remember it, or believe it. If it doesn't truly exist in a my mind, it does not exist at all.

I am human because i believe i am human.
I would be a gazelle if i believed i was a gazelle.
You would not exist if i did not believe you existed.

If the teacher had thrown a rock and killed one of the students, he would be convicted of some degree of murder. 20 or so eye witnesses would be considered proof beyond reasonable doubt.

Perhaps a trial by the philosophy department would acquit him.

I hate this type of pseudo intellectual sophistry.

Of course any student of formal logic knows that it is impossible to prove any statement. The most you can hope for is a proof that a statement is consistent with the axioms of the system, which are accepted without proof.

I cannot prove that the George Washington Bridge or any other entrance to Manhattan will be there tomorrow. I cannot even prove that Manhattan will be there. I cannot prove that the sun will ever rise again.

I will not cancel my trip to NYC or throw away my sunglasses. I will act with absolute confidence that Manhattan will be there and I will be able to cross over or under the Hudson River to get there. I will bet a large sum of money that I will enjoy bright sunshine many times in the future.

How many people act as though nothing is provable? People risk their very lives on confidence in bridges, elevators, doctors, et cetera. Would they do so without being certain of their safety?

Of course some drive at outrageous speeds and ingest all sorts of potentially dangerous chemicals without concern for consequences, so maybe we are being foolish when we rely on bridges and elevators.

Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics
Why cant the world be fake and your illusions as colse to real as possible ?
I don't believe you actually wrote that sentence. You deserve a timeout. I'd LOVE to see you try to explain your way out of this one.

Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics
Same argument can be used against this .
I mean , the only one who would still be in the illusion would be the ones who DONT jump in front of a train , u dont hear a dead guy saying well......i guess life was real .

Ok Man/Woman, step away from the drugs... seriously...

Since they don't, I'd suggest the reason for that actually being these other actual "senses" may not be any where near as useful or as actualy desireable as one may actualy assume them to be. You forget that the genetic mutations come first, and then the environment decides whether something is useful enough to have. There were once dinosaurs, and now there are not. Just because these 'extra-sensories' may not have arisen fully, yet, does not mean that they wont in the future. Vision, Sight, Taste, Smell, Touch. I'd just like to say that if Charles Darwin is correct in his Theory of Evolution then it must surely possible for senses to arrive, through random genetic mutation, where there is nothing to sense. For example we have the five senses above and there are the corresponding stimuli but surely it is possible for a sensory organ to appear with no corresponding stimuli. Granted this may not be advantageous to the species from an Evolutionary perspective but it wouldn't be dis-advantageous either. Why aren't there more of these around, or are there?? Maybe we just havent come around to recognizing them yet.

Actually you kind of answered this last point Mr-Anonymous.

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Reality is limited to what we can sense and perceive. A level of faith (non-religious description here) is needed to believe in realities existence. http://www.guru3d.com/forum/images/smilies/new_infinity.gif http://www.guru3d.com/forum/images/smilies/new_llying.gif