I'm just wondering...is the colored part of the iris used to attract attention? Because anytime somebody is looking at you, and you're turning your head, and you can notice their eyes (out of your entire vision) staring at you. This would normally be very hard. Think about it like this: You have a whole 180 degree vision, and there's one tiny spot in that vision where something is. It's very hard to find it (for example, "where's waldo"). However, with eyes, it's completely simple, and automatic. So I think it's something embedded in our minds and instincts. Perhaps something we used to survive on account that before we could speak, we had to use body language, and it would help us get each other's attention. It's just a guess, and they've probably proven it right, ,and it's making me sound like a retard talking about this, but it's just what I thought of. Thanks for your help.

-strategicman

The colour of the iris might very well serve an evolutionary purpose, but I doubt that it is to orient another set of eyes to it. Finding a set of eyes is something that's hardwired into our brains, so much so that we can recognize two dots and a line as being face-like (ie :) ). The dots need not be colour. All they need to be is there.

That aside, you bring up an interesting question. Why do we all have coloured retinas?

i think colored irises are just as irrelevant as variance in hair color. it is nothing more than a little biological entropy. (nature is messy never geometrically consistent). anyway, strategicman - i believe you brought up a much deeper issue, regarding why seeing other people's eyes seem to stick out to us.
i cannot decide which of these two scenarios is true:
[1] natural instinct: seeing someone's eyes is a major part of nature's way of communication. so naturally we react strongly to seeing them
[2] cultural conditioning: nature has nothing to do with it. seeing someone's eyes is nothing more than the product of growing up with the intelligence of acknowledging just what eyes are. perhaps smaller animals have no idea what the eyes of their counterparts are, and thus they do not react to seeing them like we do.

i have a feeling it is [1] natural instinct, though, because my cat looks directly into my eyes when she looks at me. i dont think her mind is going "ok, those things are what he sees out of, so i will look at them." its more automatic. but i think a little bit of [2] conditioning in humans is also evident.

sorry to skew the topic. but you just got me thinking about it.

In the BBC Production Walking with Cavemen the point was made that Homo Ergaster may have been the first hominid to have white surrounds to the iris-
in some ways, it is easier to determine the direction of glance of another individual by looking at the whites of the eyes;
in contrast to the dark brown surround of other primates...
this adaptation is useful for communication
and can lead to a sense of empathy and identification between individuals.
Link to a Walking with Cavemen Site (http://us.dk.com/static/cs/us/11/features/cavemen/interview.html)

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chris- I agree with you for the [1], because something that is very important for dogs (and probably cats as well) is the eyes. They find it very intimidating to be stared at, and if you stare at a dog's eyes, he will usually react by jumping at you, getting agitated, etc. So I'm very confident that it's something embedded in our instinctive minds. Thanks for the comment!

In regard to somebody saying colored irises are no evolutionary advantage, i've heard it said that different colored irises help filter different ammounts of sunlight.... brown eyed people at the equator....blue eyed up north.... or something..

It can always have more than one function. Like the mouth (eating, speaking, tasting, ,etc.). So it may do that too.

I dunno..... but possibly... but then again maybe no
If it were to be answred yes, how could Asians not have nice colored iris (maybe there is some, but I find it very rare among Asians)?
If it were to be answered no, why wouldn't human have only one iris color?

On the topic of eyes, I read something once that said human infants are smaller compared to adults with the exception of the eyes. Apparently, our eyes are nearly adult size from birth as a defense mechanism against predators. (Not sure if that means human predators or otherwise)

Kind of off-topic, but maybe it'll lead us in the right direction.

JD

Originally posted by strategicman

me sound like a retard talking about this, but it's just what I thought of. -strategicman
yeah

JDawg....
interesting fact, though I wonder bout the theoretical use of it..... if the eyes were to guard against predators, why couldn't we open our eyes when we're infant? Okay, other senses you may say...... or mom's protection....... or......

Originally posted by curioucity
JDawg....
interesting fact, though I wonder bout the theoretical use of it..... if the eyes were to guard against predators, why couldn't we open our eyes when we're infant? Okay, other senses you may say...... or mom's protection....... or......

Not sure I understand you. Unlike manny other mammels, such as kangaroos, rats, etc, Human eyes are open when they are born. You can open then and look at the doctor as he smacks you on the arse, right after you are born.

I don't see much of an advantage to being able to open our eyes at that age - at least not in terms of avoiding predation. I'd say it's more usefull for learning how the world works while you are still unable to support yourself and walk around. Colors, shapes, people, etc. That way you won't spend you first week of walking around walking into doors and such.

Oh, nice info thanks
I didn't know that infants can open their eyes when they're born.... (bad joke: I don't remember how the hospital where I was born looked like back then). Everytime I watch anything related to newborn babies, it shows them closing their eyes....

Originally posted by curioucity
Oh, nice info thanks
I didn't know that infants can open their eyes when they're born.... (bad joke: I don't remember how the hospital where I was born looked like back then). Everytime I watch anything related to newborn babies, it shows them closing their eyes....

Maybe the transition from dark inside to a bright outside? not sure, just a guess. Or maybe the mucous covering over the eyes (a protection in the womb) hasn't been cleaned off yet by the nurses.

An interesting observation, though. Most babies I've seen (Have never seen a birth in real life, though) have also kept their eyes pretty much shut for the first day.

sensory overload, first you get violently flushed out of you cozy protective warm womb and suddenly confronted with all these overwhelming new sounds smells and sights, can I pleaze close my eyes for a sec to let it all sink in?


and remember, don't shoot until you see the white of their eyes!

you mean, infants are 'instinctively' afraid of sudden exposures?
Cute

Ok, here's an idea from waaay out in left field so do with it what you may. I know for a fact that a babies eyes can change colour up to several days after it is born. They say eyes are the window to the soul. What if the colour and pattern of the iris is in fact the "fingerprint" of the soul? Perhaps the babies eyes change colour once the soul enters its body. Ever look into someones eyes for the first time and feel like you've met them before? Of course this only makes sense if you believe in souls and re-incarnation etc... Just a thought... :)

If it were to happen, I'd rather call it ancestral reincarnation...

Aren't the eyes the only part you can see of anyone which is alive? (Skin being actually dead).


http://www.skincancerinfo.com/glossary.html


"Epidermal layers - The layers of cells, dead and alive, that make up the epidermis"



Maybe, rather than colour, it is the eyes themselves which attract attention for this reason or for no reason.

I believe they have been doing some experiments to check whether it is true when people can tell when someone behind them is looking at them.

I believe they have been doing some experiments to check whether it is true when people can tell when someone behind them is looking at them.

Any links or extra info? I'm a firm believer that the feeling of "being watched" is more than simple paranoia. I can almost immediately pinpoint someone in a crowd who is looking at me, and regularly spin people out by doing so. I can't explain it but it aint paranoia! :D

I'll try to find where I saw it. It was an MB - maybe In the Hall of Ma'at.

You know what its like when you read something and forget where.

:)

Rupert Sheldrake has been conducting experiments into the feeling that you are being watched for some time now;
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030809/FCSHEL/TPScience/

Csicops critique;
http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-03/stare.html

Sheldrake's response;
http://www.csicop.org/si/2001-03/stare.html

all fascinating stuff...

eburacum45

Thanks. That was what I was referring to.

I haven't had a chance to read all of it, but doesn't it suggest the results are inconclusive?

"Conclusions

In spite of their prior assumption that an ability to detect unseen staring must be illusory, both Baker (2000) and Colwell et al. (2000) in their first experiments obtained unexpected positive results consistent with such an ability. They attempted to dismiss these findings with question-begging arguments. In their second experiments, which gave the non-significant results they expected, an investigator with negative expectations acted as the starer. This arrangement provided favorable conditions for experimenter effects, already known to occur in staring experiments (Wiseman and Schlitz 1997). Both Baker and Marks and Colwell also failed to mention a large body of published data that went against their conclusions. In short, their claims were misleading and ill-informed."


Robert Baker's reply concludes:

"Finally, Sheldrake's attempt to shoot down the results of my two demonstrations has failed completely and I stand firmly with my original conclusion that "it is prudent to conclude that people cannot tell when they are being stared at."

I often feel called instead of stared......:)

A baby's eyes change colour over a period of several months after they are born; so does their hair and sometimes their skin colour as well.

In British Isles types it's normal to be born blond with blue eyes and change to whatever your final hair/eye colour is going to be gradually over time. This is not necessarily true for other types of people, but it's not abnormal to change colour one way or another as you mature.

I have never heard of hair being the window to the soul...

As for the connection of eyes when you look at another person, you may also notice that this works with other animals, particularly dogs and cats. I have heard in the past that predatory animals naturally look at eyes to identify another animal - hence those moths/caterpillars &c. that have fake eyes on their bodies to distract predators.

Cats in particular love to stare at you... dogs just do that eyebrow thing at you until they lose interest.