Should our goal in life be to accumulate as much free time as possible so that we can do whatever we want?

If you want.

I know that's what I want, and I feel perfectly comfortable with that decision. However, is that a good decision?

Sounds good to me!

Should our goal in life be to accumulate as much free time as possible so that we can do whatever we want?
I know that's what I want, and I feel perfectly comfortable with that decision. However, is that a good decision?

No, it's not a good decision. Because you aren't alone in the world, you interact with others, whether you want to or not. That being the case, you can't just do whatever you want and still be a valid part of the society.

Think of it this way ....what if a psychopathic killer felt the same way ...that he should be free to do whatever he wants to do? See? That's an extreme case, of course, but I hope it brings to mind the difficulties of doing what one wnats to do without regard for others.

Baron Max

Why do you hate our freedom?

There's no such thing as free time because we all are paying a price for this life.

Should our goal in life be to accumulate as much free time as possible so that we can do whatever we want?

YES!
I have told my son, I don't care if he is a bum that lives on the beach in Hawaii. As long as he is happy and not hurting anyone, , that's what life is about. Life isn't about stuff, its about experiences. Living.

YES!
I have told my son, I don't care if he is a bum that lives on the beach in Hawaii. As long as he is happy and not hurting anyone, , that's what life is about. Life isn't about stuff, its about experiences. Living.

yeah right, i bet you make him go to school still, make him get an education, make him wash and dress.


what if he wanted to go sit outside your hosue and live on the curb? with a bottle of booze and crack pipe?

i bet you would make him wash up, kick the drugs and get back to school. no mother wants thier child to be a crack smoking bum with no education. no matter how happy it makes them.


peace.

yeah right, i bet you make him go to school still, make him get an education, make him wash and dress.


what if he wanted to go sit outside your hosue and live on the curb? with a bottle of booze and crack pipe?

i bet you would make him wash up, kick the drugs and get back to school. no mother wants thier child to be a crack smoking bum with no education. no matter how happy it makes them.


peace.

I said "as long as he isn't hurting anyone"

I said "as long as he isn't hurting anyone"

what if he wanted to drop out of school and lay about all day playing world of warcraft untill he dies?

you would let him do that and be happy for him? or if he dropped out of school to be a proffessional animal fucker in the deep south?


peace.

If want the free time in our society, you have to work for it. Free time as a goal isn't the same thing as being irresponsible.

Paris Hilton

Paris Hilton

your goal in life is to be paris hilton? lol:confused:

what if he wanted to drop out of school and lay about all day playing world of warcraft untill he dies?



Yeah which any kid would happily do.....

I don't think that is the best encouragement there orleander.
What if we all told our kids ahhhhhhhhh its okay just be a bum
as long as you are happy:bugeye:

what if he wanted to drop out of school and lay about all day playing world of warcraft untill he dies?

you would let him do that and be happy for him? or if he dropped out of school to be a proffessional animal fucker in the deep south?


peace.

as long as he doesn't hurt anyone!
I raise my kids to be good decent people who care about others. BUT I have also raised them to find joy in their life. They are to live it for them, not me. I can't imagine a better life than to have lived it joyfully.

your goal in life is to be paris hilton? lol:confused:

No she has free time 24 hours of the day.

Work builds character, strength, integrity, dignity and genuine self-pride.
Many qualities missing in the people I know who have had everything handed to them and never had to work.

As nietzschefan said, Paris is an ideal example - or Lindsey Lohan (or however you spell it) but you see it it in all the spoiled youth of today.

As nietzschefan said, Paris is an ideal example - or Lindsey Lohan (or however you spell it) but you see it it in all the spoiled youth of today.


True, there are too many little brats running around who don't want to get their hands dirty. They drive around my city in Dads fancy car and hang out at Tim Hortons all day and night. Then they have the little princesses making a B line to whoever is driving the nicest car.

My kids are young but they have chores to do......and the older they get
the more jobs around the house they will have. I am not going to go buy them a new car when they hit driving age.....they are gonna have to work for it. If I see that they are genuinely trying sure I will kick in money and help them out.

Should our goal in life be to accumulate as much free time as possible so that we can do whatever we want?


What is best in life?

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.

What is best in life?

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.

Ghengis was happy, wasn't he?

What is best in life?

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.

Can you do this with a VISA Card?

Geistkiesel:shrug:

Having free time and being a bum isn't for me. I was thinking more on the lines of writing or charity work or business ventures. But then again, maybe free time just makes you lazy so you end up a bum?

Having free time and being a bum isn't for me. I was thinking more on the lines of writing or charity work or business ventures. But then again, maybe free time just makes you lazy so you end up a bum?

I am not one to lay around watching tv or simply vegging out. That would bore me or put me to sleep. I am usually busy doing something.

Paris Hilton

OK, you might have to work for it.

What is best in life?

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.

I came (this) close to using that line, you Conan dork!

The best goal in life is to be true to yourself, and not to live under other people expectations. This will lead to happiness and fulfillment.
Superficial happiness is just "Samsara", you are still going to return to sorrow sometime.

The best goal in life is to be true to yourself, and not to live under other people expectations. This will lead to happiness and fulfillment.....

Agreed! :bravo:
My children cannot live their lives as to what I want.

Agreed! My children cannot live their lives as to what I want.

They probably can't live the lives that they want, either ...no one can if they live in a society. Now if they lived out in the woods in caves, .....?

Baron Max

They probably can't live the lives that they want, either ...no one can if they live in a society. Now if they lived out in the woods in caves, .....?

Baron Max

or living on the beach in Hawaii fishing all day. Retire early

or living on the beach in Hawaii fishing all day. Retire early

Hmm, I think most, if not all, beaches in Hawaii are public property, so you can't live there.

Retire early? But that just means that you have to live some other life, save your money, then retire. But, like me, by that time, it's too late to want to live in the woods in a cave! I just made sure of having a secure home, with a library close by ....don't need much else.

Baron Max

The opening post was sort of interesting I think. "Is the best goal in life to do what you want?" That is an interesting title I think. I think, for the third time, it is interesting. For example... It raises a lot of questions.

What is life about?

What goals are there in life?

What are the good goals?

How do we live, or rather how are we supposed to live?

All of these questions of course deserve to be looked at. It was Jean Paul Sartre who said "the only thing that hasn't been figured out is how we are supposed to live" or something like this. ........

Hmm, I think most, if not all, beaches in Hawaii are public property, so you can't live there....

there ya go. being all negative again!!!! If a cloud has a silver lining you'll try and tarnish it somehow.
Maybe he'll marry a native hawaiian and live on their beach. Maybe he'll move to Bora Bora.
I was just using Hawaii as an example. Its not set in stone.

there ya go. being all negative again!!!! If a cloud has a silver lining you'll try and tarnish it somehow.

Okay, from now on I'll just agree with everything you say. Please accept my apology for being so negative.

Baron Max

Okay, from now on I'll just agree with everything you say. Please accept my apology for being so negative.

Baron Max

:) thank you! <hug>

The best goal in life is to be true to yourself, and not to live under other people expectations. This will lead to happiness and fulfillment.
Superficial happiness is just "Samsara", you are still going to return to sorrow sometime.

Well it's alright now,
Learned my lesson well,
You can't please everyone,
Sometimes you got to please yourself

Good to hear some ethical and behavioral talk in the philosophy forum nietzschefan.

I came (this) close to using that line, you Conan dork!

That was in Conan?
They stole that from Ghengis Khan!

Certainly each individual must be free to do whatever he wants, so long as he causes no direct harm to others. I'm a libertarian and that's the libertarian philosophy condensed into a sound bite. Of course the corollary to this is that he alone bears the responsibility for the results of his deeds. If he chooses to quit his job and live on a tract of public land where he won't get rousted for it, he will be dependent on the charity of working people for food, and failing that, he will have made the choice to die of starvation.

But guaranteeing him this freedom is not the same thing as recommending it as a goal.

This will make two times this year that I've agreed with the Baron, but we all reap the benefits of living in a civilization and we were all born with the obligation to keep it running. It's a fantastic deal because the benefit-cost ratio is enormously richer than that of pre-civilized people. Sure, Mesolithic hunter-gatherers are said to have worked a 25-hour week, but that was a lot of labor to expend for the meager sustenence it provided, no permanent lodging, and only the possessions they could carry.

So: the minimal goal of every human being should be to contribute more-or-less his share to the maintenance of civilization. Anything less than that and he's a parasite. The rules are pretty lax: you can contribute by being a singer, an athlete, or the unflappable spouse who keeps a highly-paid spouse (perhaps one of those singers or athletes) from doing something stoopid and losing job or life.

That said, until very recently it was possible for people to opt out of civilization. 150 years ago there was still a frontier on the edge of America, where a man (they are almost always men, aren't they?) could go and live by his wits and hunting skills. Today you'd have to go to an arctic locale to get the same deal. It's not really much of an option any more if you haven't spent years using the resources of civilization to train for it, which kind of invalidates the whole idea.

It's been said that this option used to be a safety valve. For every man who actually struck out for the frontier, there were ten thousand men who gave it serious thought and made a conscious decision to stick it out in civilization. I think that made them better citizens. Today there are too many people who feel that they're stuck as members of civilization because there's no other choice.

Think of it this way ....what if a psychopathic killer felt the same way ...that he should be free to do whatever he wants to do?
Baron Max

Evolution in action, isn't it?

Evolution in action, isn't it?

Well, psychopaths are people, too, ain't they?

Baron Max

Doing what we want would eventually be very meaningless. We need artificial limitations placed on society that is governed by standards, moral, and governing objects. Often, we can't do what we want (no absolute) but we can reach a sub-state of what or where we want to be.

No, it's not a good decision. Because you aren't alone in the world, you interact with others, whether you want to or not. That being the case, you can't just do whatever you want and still be a valid part of the society.

yeah, you should be a slave to what others think of you *cough*

We already all do what we want. ex. I don't really care for paying taxes, but I've chosen it over the alternatives (jail, poverty, absurd legal fees, etc.).

The secret is finding the balance that provides the life that is the most enjoyable. So, for me, happiness is really the goal.

Well, psychopaths are people, too, ain't they?

Baron Max

Precisely. On the bird thread you seemed indignant that we should worry about the deaths of species. This was simply evolution. But when it comes to certain kinds of evolutionary processes Baron Max gets upset. Natural selection no longer seems a defense to you. I just wanted to point this out.

You heart and mind are as clouded by symbiotic urges as other people.

Of course, you live only once, so enjoy that time.

Precisely. On the bird thread you seemed indignant that we should worry about the deaths of species. This was simply evolution. But when it comes to certain kinds of evolutionary processes Baron Max gets upset. Natural selection no longer seems a defense to you. I just wanted to point this out.

Huh? What the fuck are you talking about??????

And where do you get anything of me being upset? It seems that you're trying to insult me somehow, but I sure can't figure out how by the above convoluted statement.

Baron Max

Of course, you live only once, so enjoy that time.

Would you give the same advice to murderers, pedophiles and other such people?

Baron Max

Would you give the same advice to murderers, pedophiles and other such people?

Baron Max

Of course not. Enjoy your life, but keep in mind that your freedom to swing your fist ends when it hits my nose;)

Basically, as long as you're not hurting ANYBODY/ANYTHING but yourself, go ahead.

...Basically, as long as you're not hurting ANYBODY/ANYTHING but yourself, go ahead.

I disagree. My children do not have the option to drink themselves to death, be heroin addicts, meth heads, etc.

I will do everything in my power to stop it.

I disagree. My children do not have the option to drink themselves to death, be heroin addicts, meth heads, etc.

I will do everything in my power to stop it.

And what power do you have over them?

...It's a fantastic deal because the benefit-cost ratio is enormously richer than that of pre-civilized people. Sure, Mesolithic hunter-gatherers are said to have worked a 25-hour week, but that was a lot of labor to expend for the meager sustenence it provided, no permanent lodging, and only the possessions they could carry...

I disagree.

http://www.eco-action.org/dt/affluent.html

I disagree.The analysis of the Mesolithic lifestyle upon which I base my opinion is basically the same as the one you present. Yes they worked a pretty short week by today's standards, and by golly they really did have a much more varied diet than their late-Neolithic and early-civilized descendants, who were stuck with the crops and animals they had managed to cultivate and domesticate. "Happiness" is subjective and I have no doubt that plenty of Mesolithic people went to sleep every night--on the ground, stalked by predators, without music and theater, with a good percentage of their women dying in childbirth and half of their children dying in infancy--but nonetheless feeling content with their lot.

Yet when villages began to be constructed and agriculture was invented, the Mesolithic people in the area liked what they saw there and voted with their feet. When cities began to be constructed with their incredible richness of safety and culture--not just the consumer goods that anthropologists scoff at as they sit in their Eames chairs typing on their Macintoshes and drinking their sherry--the Neolithic people in the area repeated the process and voted with their feet. It wasn't until the Bronze Age, when this process had been enlarging cities with voluntary Neolithic immigrants for thousands of years, that the city folk began making vassals or slaves out of the remaining tribes.

People like the culture of civilization. They like having a larger circle of acquaintances--even internet buddies--to enrich their topics of discourse. They like having music, paintings, written literature, and all the other art forms. They like the economics of civilization: the division of labor that allows us to avoid doing things we don't like and are not very good at; the economy of scale that creates capital: labor and resources that don't have to be devoted to producing necessities.

I stand by my thesis. Mesolithic hunter-gatherers got what they paid for. No less, but certainly no more. People want civilization and they're willing to participate in it in order to have it.

And what power do you have over them?

Oh you have GOT to be kidding me. I have bribery, blackmail, shame, and most of all love. But I am not above calling the cops to save their lives.

Oh you have GOT to be kidding me. I have bribery, blackmail, shame, and most of all love. But I am not above calling the cops to save their lives.

Exactly, what if they didn't care about your bribery, your blackmail (assuming you had anything to use:p), your shame and love?

Then I have no idea who's children you are talking about. They obviously aren't mine.

Basically, as long as you're not hurting ANYBODY/ANYTHING but yourself, go ahead.People are criticizing you because they think you're advising the whole human race to be irresponsible with their lives. I don't know if you're a libertarian like me, but the libertarian philosophy is that people must be allowed to do these things by the government. Our reason is that government attempts to legislate responsiblity and morality almost invariably cause more problems than they solve, not that we recommend dissolute lifestyles for everyone.

But individuals are free to influence each other. Even if all drugs were legal, which they should be, as a landlord I'd still demand the right to deny housing to a habitual drunk who does not appear likely to be either a good credit risk or a very tidy tenant. I have the right to spend hours on the phone lambasting a friend who says she wants to drop out of college and become a beach bum. And parents have the right to make their kids' lives miserable with noodging and dropping in and giving unwanted advice if they don't think they're living up to their potential... even if they're adults. Of course the kid is free to get a court injunction so the parent has to tread somewhat lightly.

If Orly's kids are still minors I vote for giving her considerable power over them. Of course with that power come responsibilities. Parents don't get to lobby Congress to censor the TV shows I love. They get to buy v-chips and learn how to use them. If their kids are going next door and watching the shows there before they get home from work, they need to hire a large tough nanny or go live in Utah. Same goes for drugs. They don't get to make it illegal for adults to take them as an easy (and incredibly ineffective) way to keep them out of the hands and bodies of children.

Giving someone the right to do something is not the same as encouraging them to do it. It's merely making people stronger by forcing them to make their own choices.

Should our goal in life be to accumulate as much free time as possible so that we can do whatever we want?No, our goal should be to love eachother and to love ourselves, trust in eachother and to trust ourselves, to stay away from wrongdoing and work honestly towards prosperity and joy of life.

No, our goal should be to love eachother and to love ourselves, trust in eachother and to trust ourselves, to stay away from wrongdoing and work honestly towards prosperity and joy of life.Why?

Admirable though the sentiment is, surely this is just your personal view of what YOUR goal is.
If so, please do not word it as though it should be applicable to everyone - unless of course you can support it. Hence the "Why?".

My life's goal has nothing whatsoever to do with loving each other or trusting each other. It has everything to do with being happy. If "loving" or "trusting" others helps me achieve that - then ok.

And prosperity? Again - only if it helps me achieve happiness.

Huh? What the fuck are you talking about??????

And where do you get anything of me being upset? It seems that you're trying to insult me somehow, but I sure can't figure out how by the above convoluted statement.

Baron Max

I just love people who pretend that when they don't understand it's always the other person's fault. The downside is it's very hard to learn anything new, but that's probably not a high priority anyway. The upside is it must be so feel so cozy and safe in there.

Why?

Admirable though the sentiment is, surely this is just your personal view of what YOUR goal is.
If so, please do not word it as though it should be applicable to everyone - unless of course you can support it. Hence the "Why?".

My life's goal has nothing whatsoever to do with loving each other or trusting each other. It has everything to do with being happy. If "loving" or "trusting" others helps me achieve that - then ok.

And prosperity? Again - only if it helps me achieve happiness.It isn't just my personal goal, even if it is my oppinion that everyone should strive to love one another. You can be angry at a person because of love, love isn't just a single feeling.

However the case, I really do believe this.

I don't know what you mean by "being happy" as a goal, if it is that you are comfortable with your life (happy with your life, so to say) then wouldn't that be love too?

The author of the thread wanted a general oppinion (or so it seemed) so that is what I did, I don't think that the goal of ones life should be to achieve maximum freedom.

Yet when villages began to be constructed and agriculture was invented, the Mesolithic people in the area liked what they saw there and voted with their feet.

Those cities were not simply magnets. They were fed by their surroundings, they conquered their surroundings, they made armies that took from tribal and larger units, the conquered, they took resources and they played large pyramid games (pun intended) with the labor, women, crops and everything else they saw as theirs for the taking. This disrupted the lives of those outside the cities - apart from literally dragging many rural people in as slaves - and made the cities suddenly necessary to many. Of course there were those who were attracted also. The Aztecs, for example, did not just sit around waiting for the influx of labor, they went out and got it. And got the land and got the tribute and set up puppets and officials to oversee more tribe centered hunter gatherer and other non-city based societies.

Cities have always needed external misery to create their surplus. I wonder what will happen when their is no one left to be on the low end of the pyramid games.

Those cities were not simply magnets. They were fed by their surroundings, they conquered their surroundings, they made armies that took from tribal and larger units, the conquered, they took resources and they played large pyramid games (pun intended) with the labor, women, crops and everything else they saw as theirs for the taking. This disrupted the lives of those outside the cities - apart from literally dragging many rural people in as slaves - and made the cities suddenly necessary to many. Of course there were those who were attracted also. The Aztecs, for example, did not just sit around waiting for the influx of labor, they went out and got it. And got the land and got the tribute and set up puppets and officials to oversee more tribe centered hunter gatherer and other non-city based societies.

Cities have always needed external misery to create their surplus. I wonder what will happen when their is no one left to be on the low end of the pyramid games.

Hmm, damned good point, Granty, damned good point. I can't wait to hear Fraggle's loooonnng, involved explanation! :D

Baron Max

I personally follow an objectivist philosophy so yes, i put my own happiness as the rational purpose of my life.

and no that does not mean i dont care about others, for helping others and such gives me joy which furthers my own purpose