This is kind of analogous to the "if you build it, they will come," amongst other ideas such as the manyworlds theory - the possibility that creation is "willed", but does it imply intent?

If the most fundamental elements of a coherent concept are not only logically followed, but mentally duplicated, does the concept become real? Are truth and reality two separate things, where the former is the agreed opinions people? How much more is this than perception, which is the purpose of the brain?

Huh?

Can't you talk like ordinary people? ...without all the psycho-babble? I mean, if you want to ask "Does a bear shit in the woods?", then just ask it in that way ....don't couch a simple question in psycho-babble in some attempt to present yourself as a ....hmmm, whatever.

Baron Max

Reality is a word with many meanings. Just like truth. End of story. Or maybe that's where Wittgenstein's begins.

Huh?

Can't you talk like ordinary people? ...without all the psycho-babble? I mean, if you want to ask "Does a bear shit in the woods?", then just ask it in that way ....don't couch a simple question in psycho-babble in some attempt to present yourself as a ....hmmm, whatever.

Baron Max

If "God" (or whatever name He/She/It goes by) did not exist, then we would become the creators of reality and there would be no justification or conscience to answer to. Hence, we would never see "good" and "evil" in anything, only problems and solutions. Therefore, if you decided on a whim that killing a loved one was a solution to a problem then you will do so. And in a reality without God you will have no conscience about doing so, as you would be the creator of your own reality.

Reality is a word with many meanings. Just like truth. End of story. Or maybe that's where Wittgenstein's begins.

Yes, reality, like any other word/existence, is a conception. Truth, on the other hand, is a majority opinion.

...if you decided on a whim that killing a loved one was a solution to a problem then you will do so. And in a reality without God you will have no conscience about doing so, as you would be the creator of your own reality.

I don't get it ....we can do that now! It's not our own "reality" that's the problem with killing someone, it's all those other people who don't seem to like it. Ones own reality is not the issue, or can't you see that?

Now ...what the hell are you talking about really?

Baron Max

We operate according to two things, truth (majority opinion based on society) or reality (a creation or an intent based on positivity and negativity, good and evil, God and the Devil).

We interact with the external world by perceiving or exchanging energy, the Hindus call this "chakra". When we exchange energy we perceive information/stimulus. The basis of the information or stimulus is reality. If you choose the reality of negativity, then evil will become the only logical solution to every problem within reality. There will be no conscience to dictate otherwise. Conscience is not a dictator of truth, it is a dictator of ethical action. Without it, brutally slaughtering your family members can be an equally fine solution to a problem as anything else. Conscience can only be accessible within the reality of God.

The denial of reality always leads to insanity. So if you exist in an evil reality and you attempt to deny evil, you will willingly cause your own insanity. That is why one must accept God if one wishes to be delivered from the evil reality.

Insanity happens when you deny reality, be it good or evil.

We create or conceive our own realities and we choose God to be the supreme creator of it or not. After this conceiving reality with or without God, our actions become deterministic again when we return to the object level of perception (note the distinction between conception/free will and perception/determinism). At a certain point of perception above the object level, we either conceive reality or we deny reality. At that point, if we decide to conceive reality, we either accept God as the supreme conceiver of our own reality along with ourselves or not, since there can be no compromise between realities, as there exists a reality of evil without God, in which every answer to every problem is an evil one. Conscience is destroyed despite everything we have ever been taught and the reality without God is isolated from the majority opinion of others. Hence, all things are regarded as intangible and meaningless objects and so are treated as such. Think utter brutality and disregard for life. Evil becomes a logical solution if God is denied because evil will be the only logical response in a selfish reality where majority opinion is disruptive to our perfect self-made reality without God. Your own survival becomes the one and only dictate of your actions and nothing must stand in the way, including ethics and morals. As the supreme creator of your own reality-without-God, every action despite being evil becomes beneficial and logical since it preserves your sanity. Put simply, without God, SANITY=EVIL since conscience is non-existent in a reality without God.

If you are an atheist, then you do not know the difference between truth and reality, and your perception is not above the object level. You accept mankind as not only the truth, but the only reality. Your conscience will become destroyed and you would commit true evil if you saw it as a solution to a problem in the event that you persisted in atheism at that point of perception above the object level. There is a point of perception that is so far above the object level where we conceive our reality (see above) and must choose between God's reality or evil reality. The third alternative is insanity (the creation of your own reality).

In other words, if a self-proclaimed atheist is living an acceptable life of materialism, it is because they have never persisted in their atheism beyond the object level, the point where perception becomes conception.

Humans are evolving and becoming conscious that they are affecting the reality that they step into, and they are affecting the movement of energy on the planet. As they stand fully engaged and mindful of the total connection…the total matrix of divine unfolding…the total oneness and total weaving with the All That Is, they are starhumans.

This evolution is occurring within the atoms of each human being on earth at this time.

There is and has been a vanguard of multidimensional starhumans who have been carrying this banner of enlightenment for lifetimes. There is an awakening to the knowledge, that each human is multidimensional. Now is the time to recognize and merge with the consciousness of others who are also cognizant of their multidimensional beingness.

As more humans begin to expand into their multidimensional aspects, they will become pioneers in this field of aligning, balancing and untangling the energy weavings. There is a restoring and mending of the grid of this planet. This work has been taking place for hundreds of years in the subtle realms. It is now taking place in the active physical realms. This restoring, this mending of the grid, is held in the galactic realms. This is the time. This is the coming together. This is the shift activating your very purpose to serve.

http://www.morningmessages.com/message.cfm

There is no misunderstanding in this thread. But how could the God concept be a denial of reality as opposed to the other way around? What is at the edge of existence? Is not existence perceptual and therefore intelligent at some points? Are we those points and if so is our location a pinpointed aspect of a larger manifold, namely, the universe? OR, is a definition of evil necessary where it must be the absence of God, where God is the imagined scientific placeholder for the alpha male's self-restraint and egotistical barriers? The muscle/mind mirroring? The "nothing is wasted" proposition? Does this imply that the absence of ego is possible or must their be a self in order to perceive? If sensual perception defined all that we are then how is it that the information that travels from our senses to our brains may carry a message of something extra? And why is there a degree of correlation between the extra and non-sensory reality? Why can we not accept that creation is an illusion and that boundaries and limits are unnecessary for our sanity?

Why can we not accept that creation is an illusion and that boundaries and limits are unnecessary for our sanity?


Because some of us like to bullshit alot! :D

But what if there is an inconceivably large boundary? And what is the boundary of a boundary? Zero. But why must the universe not be infinite? Is I think an excellent question.

If language is just our own "gibberish" then what is beyond language? Reality conception is what language is there for, and when we create our reality we necessarily must speak a "first word" (aside from that of infancy) to create an initial conception of reality, and if there is no "first word" or first conception, we will lose reality and our minds will disappear, since mind is also reality. However, I am not sure what not speaking a "first word" can lead to and whether or not there is anything to be concerned about. It is possible that we can create a reality of pure delusion and self-manipulation. An awareness of our own awareness is what happens when there is too much fear to face reality.

If language is just our own "gibberish" then what is beyond language?
IF is a big word.
Is language just our own gibberish?

Reality conception is what language is there for,
Really?
Show us.

and when we create our reality we necessarily must speak a "first word" (aside from that of infancy) to create an initial conception of reality,
Nonsense.

and if there is no "first word" or first conception, we will lose reality and our minds will disappear,
Nonsense.

since mind is also reality.
More nonsense.

However, I am not sure what not speaking a "first word" can lead to and whether or not there is anything to be concerned about. It is possible that we can create a reality of pure delusion and self-manipulation.
Apparently some people can. :rolleyes:

An awareness of our own awareness is what happens when there is too much fear to face reality.
Are you on drugs or do you just make this up for the hell of it?

Ah —but "truth" and "reality" are enveloped in a further truth and reality, especially reality. And as much as our own truths versus society's truths, or our reality versus society's reality are abutting each other, both sides must observe a collaboration with a governing law — as a binocular fusion with the panorama.

Given the gibberish-like nature of the OP, all I can say is this:

'truth' and 'reality' are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

OR, is a definition of evil necessary where it must be the absence of God, where God is the imagined scientific placeholder for the alpha male's self-restraint and egotistical barriers? The muscle/mind mirroring? The "nothing is wasted" proposition? Does this imply that the absence of ego is possible or must their be a self in order to perceive? If sensual perception defined all that we are then how is it that the information that travels from our senses to our brains may carry a message of something extra? And why is there a degree of correlation between the extra and non-sensory reality? Why can we not accept that creation is an illusion and that boundaries and limits are unnecessary for our sanity?

Einstein probably clarified this best without bringing in a God concept.

"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the
Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences
himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated
from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his
consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us,
restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for
a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free
ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of
compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of
nature in its beauty." --Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

What is the cause of the "optical delusion", can we get rid of it by being altruistic, and does this quote give a logical spin to the reason for compassion and embrace for all things?