Every time I see people on tv lighting a candle after something tragic happens, I think 'liar'. They probably get some sort of an emotional high out of the whole process. Just look at what happened in this country when Princess Di... died - housewives just loved that didn't they?

Minute silences... there's more bullshit too. You can almost hear everyone thinking "this is so heavy man! It's great!" as they are standing there trying to look solemn.

Every time I see people on tv lighting a candle after something tragic happens, I think 'liar'. They probably get some sort of an emotional high out of the whole process. Just look at what happened in this country when Princess Di... died - housewives just loved that didn't they?

Minute silences... there's more bullshit too. You can almost hear everyone thinking "this is so heavy man! It's great!" as they are standing there trying to look solemn.

It's pretty easy to see that you've never suffered a real close emotional loss, have you?

It's pretty easy to see that you've never suffered a real close emotional loss, have you?

Well I'm mostly thinking of public displays of mourning mostly by people who have nothing to do with whatever tragedy...

But actually, if everyone I knew died tonight, I'm not sure I would be upset in the way most people get. We all die, right?

Well I'm mostly thinking of public displays of mourning mostly by people who have nothing to do with whatever tragedy...

But actually, if everyone I knew died tonight, I'm not sure I would be upset in the way most people get. We all die, right?

Sure we do. But knowing that doesn't make it any easier for the biggest majority of us. Just wait until you've lost your father, mother and a child - as I have. Then come back and tell us how you feel.

I don't feel qualified to judge ALL the people at those public occasions. Perhaps some really are less sincere than others - but I'm not going to be the one to make that call.

I think I get the gist of what Kenny is saying.

It's perfectly understandable to mourn for someone who was close you.

However, the displays we see when public figures die sometimes seem to be insincere. I specifically remember the death of Steve Irwin, where thousands of Australians who never knew him in person were weeping and moaning. I wonder how many of those grieving individuals visciously criticized Irwin for the 'crocodile in the pen' incident?

The part that bothers me is that people seem to "mourn" only those that are noted on the news. For example, with the VT killings this week, everyone seems so upset and mournful about those that were killed, but they didn't "mourn" one damned bit about all of the others who were killed on that same day ...drunk driving accidents, starvation in Africa, cancer deaths, murders, etc.

See? It's only, ONLY, those who are denoted on the news. We're being led around by the nose by the news media. They select the appropriate victim, then we're all supposed to "mourn" them. And oddly, we do!

Baron Max

The part that bothers me is that people seem to "mourn" only those that are noted on the news. For example, with the VT killings this week, everyone seems so upset and mournful about those that were killed, but they didn't "mourn" one damned bit about all of the others who were killed on that same day ...drunk driving accidents, starvation in Africa, cancer deaths, murders, etc.

See? It's only, ONLY, those who are denoted on the news. We're being led around by the nose by the news media. They select the appropriate victim, then we're all supposed to "mourn" them. And oddly, we do!

Baron Max

If you want to be grieved with style try to get killed in a group by someone who is judged crazy by society as a whole: a terrorist or a gun toting outsider. Don't get beaten to death by your husband, or die a vastly more horrible death by toxic spill induced cancer. It really helps if you are not third world either, as BM pointed out. We sort of assume paramilitary groups will kill hundreds or even thousands, sometimes even supported by our tax dollars.
But if many die in the US or Europe it's time to get out the candles and parade and look somber.

I do think some people can connect to famous people or people somewhere else. And that some people are mourning for real. But a lot of it seems like some kind of facile mixing of sort of political sort of religious rituals that have a lot to do with self-image. That many students at VT were freaked out and thrown into grief is not surprising, they could identify, even if they did not know the dead personally. It struck close to home. But when a president and people across the nation join in in large numbers it rings false.

But if many die in the US or Europe it's time to get out the candles and parade and look somber.

Haha, that reminds me of a story by a comedian. On 9/11, someone told him that planes had flown into buildings and many were dead, but it was only when he found out it was in an 'english speaking country' with 'white people' that he felt any kind of shock.

I liked that... so honest.

Every time I see people on tv lighting a candle after something tragic happens, I think 'liar'. They probably get some sort of an emotional high out of the whole process. Just look at what happened in this country when Princess Di... died - housewives just loved that didn't they?

Minute silences... there's more bullshit too. You can almost hear everyone thinking "this is so heavy man! It's great!" as they are standing there trying to look solemn.

If you cannot connect with the essence that was lost, then it is BS to hold a candle. Did people connect when JK died? If so...why?

We can't mourn everyone. Our ability to ignore most deaths is a survival trait for civilization.

I'm here in the Washington area where the Virginia Tech massacre dominates the news and is the major topic of conversation. I went to see Ozomatli a couple of nights ago--a band from my hometown of L.A.--and even they did a minute of silence for the victims. Every morning when I pick up the Washington Post there must be fifteen pages of coverage of this story. They've done detailed biographies of every victim, their families, their neighbors, their teachers, their pastors, their Little League coaches.

I've hardly kept up with it all but I can't bring myself to completely avoid it, I can't be that big an asshole. As a result of the little bit of exposure I have gotten, by now I feel like I know them, I feel like they were my own brothers and sisters. And so I'm doing exactly what some of you are suggesting: I'm mourning them. I can't pick up the paper without crying, just typing this is making me cry. I can't help thinking about how all those kids, most of whom probably had pleasant lives to look forward to, were cut short; how the people who loved them cannot be comforted. Hell, as a dog lover I even feel bad because there are some very sad dogs out there who can't understand why Johnny or Suzie isn't coming home again.

This is really awful. Fortunately I don't spend most of my day feeling this way. If I spend twenty minutes being bummed out by grief, the rest of the day still proceeds normally.

But wait, this was only 32 people, in a whole week. I've mourned an average of four minutes for each of them. Was the Blue Oyster Cult right about "forty thousand men and women every day"? You want us to mourn them all? Just Everyone who dies an untimely death? Or just a violent death?

Maybe just the fifty people who die every single day in Iraq thanks to the Backward Baby Boy in the White House? Let's see, that would be around a half hour every day, just for the victims in one country. Add the hundred Americans who are killed by drunk drivers every day... the starving people in Somalia... Okay Max I'll throw in breast cancer too if you'll throw in AIDS. We'll end up spending most of our time grieving. Civilization will grind to a halt.

We just can't live like that.

When a famous person dies, someone we "know" personally because he's talked to us on TV or sung to us, he is the surrogate for all the deaths we can't mourn personally.

BTW, Kenny, American housewives were really sad about Princess Di. She was the Cinderalla whose life they were all living vicariously, and Cinderella doesn't die, she gets to live Happily Ever After. It was bad enough when she didn't get to live in the castle with Prince Charming any more.

We can't mourn everyone. Our ability to ignore most deaths is a survival trait for civilization.

Exactly. So why did you write all the rest of that bullshit?

I am curious, however, where you got the idea of ignoring deaths being "a survival trait for civilization"? I mean, do you have any evidence for that assertion or is it just another one of your "pull out of asshole" ideas?

And you note says exactly what this thread is all about .....it's insincere mourning, mourning for someone who happens to be on the news. It's all just plain, insincere mourning.

Baron Max

Some people are sincere about that sort of stuff. My girlfriend got all upset about the VT shootings, even though she was 3 degrees seperated from anyone who died there.

BTW, Kenny, American housewives were really sad about Princess Di. She was the Cinderalla whose life they were all living vicariously, and Cinderella doesn't die, she gets to live Happily Ever After. It was bad enough when she didn't get to live in the castle with Prince Charming any more.

But they weren't 'sad'. For the same reason middle aged house wives will be religious, put on that whitney houston song, go to psychics, mourn people who die on the news... it's all really selfish, and just give's them a buzz.

I've witnessed this a few times, mainly in school and with young people.

Scenario 1: A guy's mother died of cancer. It was expected, but obviously not a good day. An awful lot of people went to her funeral - kids from my school. I sat next to the guy in one of my classes and we got along well, but in no way did I feel it would be appropriate for me to turn up to his mothers funeral. Many people did. People who'd met her once. People who spoke to the guy and seemingly, anyone who wanted to. I saw people crying in school. The guy put on a brave face and the next time I saw him I tried to act normal, because of the amount of fake sincerity that most of the school had been showing him. I gave him a nod and a 'I'm sorry' kind of smile, then talked to him about stuff we usually did.

2) A girl at our school was knocked down by a car after she got off the schoolbus. It seemed as though everyone in the school was crying. I thought it was awful, but I didn't know the girl. I seriously doubt as many people that were upset, had to take the day off and see the counsellor knew her. Again, an awful lot of people turned up to that funeral. I felt fucking awful for the family and for the people who were there because they knew her and because it was a big deal to them.

I'd feel like a dick going to someones funeral unless I'd known them well. When I say well, I mean spoken to them on a personal level and knew something about them. Not a friendly hello or how's it going kind of relationship.

Princess Di was different though, as Fraggle says. She was special and close to many peoples hearts. She stood for things that many people worshipped her for and she had balls. It was a tragedy. Having a cry and spending a few hours alone would seem the right thing to do for Princess Di. I remember where I was when I heard she died and it hit me fairly hard. Well, it made an impact. I was 10 or 11 at the time, I think.

Everyone's different though. That's the way I feel about things and my ideas. Other people are probably different.

If it's insincere it's not mourning! It is just keeping face.