View Full Version : Is menstruation unnatural?


Syzygys
05-11-08, 09:23 PM
I have this theory, that since in the animal world as soon as the female becomes ripe for bearing offspring, she usually gets pregnant. And once it starts, it doesn't stop until the female becomes too old to bear children. Thus in the lifetime of female mammals menstruation is rather the exception than the norm. I would guess they spend more time being pregnant or nursing than menstruating in their fertile lifespan...

Here is a woman who hasn't menstruated often in the last 20 years:

http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/duggarfamily.html

Baby #18 is coming to the Duggar family!

Hercules Rockefeller
05-11-08, 09:57 PM
http://hfboards.com/images/smilies/rolleyes1.gif


No.

draqon
05-11-08, 10:17 PM
if mens need for masturbation is unnatural that womens menstruation cycle is unnatural

Asguard
05-11-08, 10:23 PM
what a pair of idiots, people like that should be forcefully sterilised. Yes its probably true that in nature the female is more likely to be preganant, unless there is a drought or she cant find a male or a 100 other situations but for humans wishing to live much longer than nature intended (ie till your older than 20) staying constantly pregnant is a VERY bad idea.

I once had a female gupy who got preganant to often because the other female had died. Eventually her uturus was pulled out of her body and she died. Pregancy puts a large strain on the body and its resorces and anyone with an IQ above 1 should know that having 18 kids means you cant give them the resorces they deserve.

Iris
05-11-08, 10:44 PM
Eh, I dunno, Michelle Duggar looks pretty robust and healthy to me. So do all her kids.

http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/duggarfamily.html

It's not like she's some malnourished Third World woman obeying Nature's reproductive Prime Directive by helplessly producing sickly infant after sickly infant because she either can't or won't use birth control. The Duggars are making a conscious decision to have many-many babies, and they probably wouldn't have embarked upon this project if Michelle's health hadn't been up to the challenge, overall. If her health had buckled under the strain at some point, they would have said piously, "It's God's will that we don't have any more children" and she would have had her tubes tied, or else Jim Bob would have had himself fixed. And they would only have had "some" babies instead of "many-many".

John99
05-11-08, 10:48 PM
what a pair of idiots, people like that should be forcefully sterilised.

So you want to forcefully sterilise people and Iceaura wants to take away money people inherit.:crazy: You really would rule with an iron fist.

redarmy11
05-12-08, 01:12 AM
I suppose the first consideration you should make in answering the question is: "Does it appear to occur naturally?"

And the answer is: yes. It would appear to occur naturally.

So that's quite a big pointer.

I was quite tempted to stop here:

I have this theory

shorty_37
05-12-08, 01:14 AM
Baby #18 is coming to the Duggar family!

I would shoot myself.

CutsieMarie89
05-12-08, 01:59 AM
Being pregnant too often is bad for your body. That's doctors usually reccomend waiting at least 18 months in between pregnancies. It takes about that long for your organs to move back into their correct positions and function normally again. And females don't always get pregnant at every available chance, just like people who are trying to conceive, but came up empty.

Syzygys
05-12-08, 06:30 AM
I suppose the first consideration you should make in answering the question is: "Does it appear to occur naturally?"


So does the flu...

I feel sorry for you that you never come up with a theory, but hey, not everybody is as smart as.... :)


Being pregnant too often is bad for your body.

So is life. It ends in death. Who says humans were meant to live long?

As long as a member of a spieces reaches maturity and replaces itself by reproducing, its job is done, evolurionary speaking....

redarmy11
05-12-08, 06:43 AM
So does the flu...
Yes - that's natural too. :wallbang:

I feel sorry for you that you never come up with a theory, but hey, not everybody is as smart as.... :)
At this moment I have an hypothesis. It is H0.

P.S. I haven't read the link, I can't be bothered.

visceral_instinct
05-12-08, 07:53 AM
Don't know about unnatural, but it's kind of sucky.

I am currently doped out on Feminax for menstrual cramps. This after spending yesterday being pissed off for no reason because of PMS.

I envy men...they only have testosterone, no sketchy cocktail of hormones like us...:(

redarmy11
05-12-08, 07:55 AM
Still. At least you can't get your balls caught on a fence, eh.

synthesizer-patel
05-12-08, 07:56 AM
Don't know about unnatural, but it's kind of sucky.

I am currently doped out on Feminax for menstrual cramps. This after spending yesterday being pissed off for no reason because of PMS.

I envy men...they only have testosterone, no sketchy cocktail of hormones like us...:(

You don't know how easy you've got it - us blokes are equally at the mercy of our hormones - only testosterone can cause wild mood swings every 15 minutes or whenever a nice arse of great set of cans comes into our line of sight - or some other dude starts kicking round a pigs bladder - you've just got once a month to deal with :D

cosmictraveler
05-12-08, 07:56 AM
I envy men...they only have testosterone,

But they create more wars, anger, frustration and a multitude of other feelings so they aren't any better off in the whole scheme of things. ;)

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 08:02 AM
Its natural for women to die in child birth, all these medicines,medical procedures and antibiotics are crimes against nature! We should go back to natural child birth were 50% of women die before the 12th child (natural death rate in child birth is 1 out of every 16 pregnancies). And considering that its natural for women to begin breeding as soon as they are fertile the natural and correct average lifespan for women should be 22-26 years. And it was natural for at least half of these children to die before breeding age, all of this pediatrics, plentiful food, lack of infanticed, lack of child labor and lack of cannibalism is just unnatural and wrong! And when resources in a area were depleted the death and birth rates naturally would equalized as people starved and killed each other, naturally.

Obviously women would rather live longer, have their children live longer, everyone would rather liver longer better lives! No matter if they were naturally meant to die by 30 or not. I don't care what is natural or was meant to be, all of our modern civilization which enjoys standards of living that are unprecedented in all of history exist because of doing thing unnaturally. Fuck nature I say, who says we should do what is natural? We see where natural takes us and we see were unnatural takes us, and the unnatural obviously takes us to far better things. It's time we take our evolution away from the slow and painful Darwinian and into the faster utilitarian Lamarckian were we design our successor by our wills alone, not by natures. It may in fact be our destiny to overthrow nature, the natural course of all intelligent life, the cycle is complete.

visceral_instinct
05-12-08, 08:04 AM
Agree with Electric Fetus.

Pretty much everything we do is unnatural, like wearing clothes.

Syzygys
05-12-08, 08:15 AM
I am currently doped out on Feminax for menstrual cramps. This after spending yesterday being pissed off for no reason because of PMS.

Here is something you might want to consider, if you don't plan on getting pregnant soon. There is a relative new birthcontrol pill that makes you menstruate only 1-2 a year. So you could cut down on your pain by 90% using it.

Just a thought...

Syzygys
05-12-08, 08:16 AM
Pretty much everything we do is unnatural, like wearing clothes.

The way I look at it is this: how animals do it and did we do it 10-20K years ago?
I bet females didn't menstruate often 20 K years ago...

redarmy11
05-12-08, 08:34 AM
Some support for that:

Coutinho's definition of menstruation is important since it underpins his major claim in this new work -- that regular menstruation is not "natural". According to Coutinho, a monthly menses would have been unusual for early women who were regularly pregnant or breast-feeding (and therefore without periods), "young women were either pregnant or lactating almost continuously" (p.2). It is only the modern woman, he argues, who experiences menstruation as a regular, monthly occurrence. While repeated menstruation made biological sense for Stone Age humans whose survival was by no means assured, Coutinho hypothesizes, regular menstruation is no longer necessary in the modern world where human survival is not contingent upon prolific childbirth.
But:

Not all scientists, however, are so quick to dismiss the import of women's monthly bleeding. Margie Profet -- a young, maverick evolutionary biologist from the University of California, Berkeley -- made her entry into the scientific forum in 1993 by asking a question no scientist had thought to ask since Hippocrates and Galen: "Why do women menstruate"? Profet's findings, painstakingly detailed in an article for the renown Quarterly Review of Biology come remarkably close to her scientific forbears. Profet argues from an evolutionary standpoint that there must necessarily exist a functional purpose for regular menstruation or it would not have endured the mutations of our evolution; Menstruation must offer some advantage for human survival or it would not have survived itself. It is not likely, Profet maintains, that our bodies are so inefficient as to permit a monthly expenditure of energy without a concurrent gain.

Profet noted at the outset that menstrual blood differs in composition from that of regular blood, most notably by containing immune cells called "macrophages". These cells are able to combat the presence of pathogens present in the uterine cavity. It is from this observation that Profet establishes her hypotheses: "Menstruation functions to protect the uterus and oviducts from colonization by pathogens" (p.335). Regular bleeding is a regular cleansing, in Profet's estimation, keeping women's reproductive organs free of contaminants. And from where do these pathogens come? From men, of course: "Sperm are vectors of disease" states Profet unhesitatingly (p.335). Sexually active women require a method by which to protect themselves from potential infection caused through intercourse. Menstruation is nothing less than a sign of the ongoing war of the sexes -- the natural means through which women protect themselves from men.

The enforced cessation of menses then, from Profet's perspective, would be harmful to a woman's health rather than beneficial -- "The uterus appears to be designed to increase its bleeding if it detects infectionů.Thus artificially curtailing infection-induced uterine bleeding may be contraindicated" -- since it interferes with her body's natural capacity to defend itself against pathogens (Profet, p.355).
http://www.cwhn.ca/resources/menstruation/obsolete.html

Syzygys
05-12-08, 08:45 AM
Who am I to argue against a Profet? :)

But I will do it anyway:

> Menstruation must offer some advantage for human survival or it would not have survived itself.

It isn't a logical argument. Menstruation is simple a byproduct, a sideeffect, and not a means itself. So her argument doesn't stand...

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 08:52 AM
Most other mammals have estrous cycles were they reabsorb and recycle their uterine lining internally (without bleeding it out), so some advantage likely allow human ancestors to utilize menstrual cycle instead.

draqon
05-12-08, 08:53 AM
Menstruation is a release of wastes of the body, its amazing women have such a thing, I envy them

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 09:01 AM
Menstruation is a release of wastes of the body, its amazing women have such a thing, I envy them

it amazing it can't be reabsorbed internally like most other mammals.

draqon
05-12-08, 09:04 AM
it amazing it can't be reabsorbed internally like most other mammals.

that must mean it is more efficient to get rid of it than absorb it.

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 09:08 AM
that must mean it is more efficient to get rid of it than absorb it.

not necessarily, it just means their may be a benefit, a limited benefit or else all other mammals would have menstrual cycles too. I personally think it was simply ignored by evolution, it was a mutation that was never corrected because their were plenty of other beneficial mutations that kept our ancestors going. Evolution does not try to make things perfect, just good enough. Take for example the mammal lung, grossly inferior to to the avian lung, but it was good enough or at least the mutations required to get to an avian lung never present them selves to mammal's ancestors, likewise birds never evolved grinding teeth like mammals which allowed for more efficient processing of food, it was "good enough" for birds, maybe because between the Triassic-Cretaceous period when bird evolved good eating was nowhere near as important as good breathing in atmosphere with half the oxygen content of today, this is probably why birds ancestors could grow to such terrible sizes while mammals were limited to the size of small dogs or smaller hiding in the night, panting just trying to keep breath.

draqon
05-12-08, 09:11 AM
not necessarily, it just means their may be a benefit, a limited benefit or else all other mammals would have menstrual cycles too.

Well its obvious this has to be studied more, but with human females being especially scratchy, they just dont let themselves being scientifically inspected. For one thing I would gladly inspect them, I just need a female counterpart who would willingly participate.

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 09:19 AM
Well its obvious this has to be studied more, but with human females being especially scratchy, they just dont let themselves being scientifically inspected. For one thing I would gladly inspect them, I just need a female counterpart who would willingly participate.

monkey spit, females have been under the scope far more then men, perhaps because most doctors were male.

Asguard
05-12-08, 06:29 PM
EF how many other mamals DONT have menstral cycles?
I know dogs for instance do because we have an un-desexed female dog and she bleeds every so often (and tries to kill my desexed female dog around the same time:p)

Dr Lou Natic
05-12-08, 06:50 PM
that must mean it is more efficient to get rid of it than absorb it.
Why would the other animals be wrong?
It's more likely humans can get away with doing something that is inefficient while other mammals can not.

Menstruation is disgusting, and all women should be ashamed of themselves, but I don't think it's unnatural.

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 07:39 PM
EF how many other mamals DONT have menstral cycles?
I know dogs for instance do because we have an un-desexed female dog and she bleeds every so often (and tries to kill my desexed female dog around the same time:p)

GIYD! Just Google estrus cycle, dog estus cycles is unusually.

Dr Lou Natic,

your a jerk, usually one should be ashamed of things they can control, women can't prevent menstruation, not without sacrificing reproduction.

Idle Mind
05-12-08, 07:54 PM
ElectricFetus, if you don't understand Dr. Lou by now, you never will. Come on man, you've been here longer than I have...

Asguard
05-12-08, 07:58 PM
EF thats not correct. The vet told us that ALL dogs menstrate (well all female dogs), infact they even sell nappies designed for dogs when they menstrate

Dr Lou Natic
05-12-08, 08:13 PM
Dogs don't truely menstruate, they go into a heat cycle which technically is the opposite of menstruating.

At the end of the day blood grossly and periodically seeps out of their vaginas, so I guess it's close enough...

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 08:13 PM
EF thats not correct. The vet told us that ALL dogs menstrate (well all female dogs), infact they even sell nappies designed for dogs when they menstrate

Oh they bleed, but they go through estrus cycles, as I said the dog is unusual, the bleeding is not menstruation.
http://www.labbies.com/reproduction1.htm

Read he very first paragraph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstruation

Asguard
05-12-08, 08:18 PM
oh i see what your saying. The dog breeds IN there reproductive cycle rather than after it like humans do

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 08:31 PM
oh i see what your saying. The dog breeds IN there reproductive cycle rather than after it like humans do

Aaaaaah what?

draqon
05-12-08, 08:32 PM
Yes I see what Asguard is saying...its all clear to me now...the menstruation unnatural natural cycle

Asguard
05-12-08, 08:34 PM
ok if thats NOT what your saying then i have no idea what your talking about. Dog bleeds but its not menstration then what the fuck is it? She certianly doesnt have a heamorage or she would be dead by now:p

draqon
05-12-08, 08:36 PM
ok if thats NOT what your saying then i have no idea what your talking about. Dog bleeds but its not menstration then what the fuck is it? She certianly doesnt have a heamorage or she would be dead by now:p

its called dogs in "heat", estrous cycle.

ElectricFetus
05-12-08, 08:57 PM
Asguard,

Why can't you look this up? I'm not a vet! Form this site:
http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/Theriogenology-5361/the_normal_canine.htm
It describes bleeding is simply blood lost because the uterine lining (endometrium) become leaky (diapedesis) just before the "estrus phase", it is not from the destruction of the uterine lining which occurs during the "diestrus" phase, it describes no bleeding during "diestrus" but repair to the endometrium occurs during "anestrus" phase.

Roman
05-14-08, 12:35 AM
I have this theory, that since in the animal world as soon as the female becomes ripe for bearing offspring, she usually gets pregnant. And once it starts, it doesn't stop until the female becomes too old to bear children. Thus in the lifetime of female mammals menstruation is rather the exception than the norm. I would guess they spend more time being pregnant or nursing than menstruating in their fertile lifespan...

Here is a woman who hasn't menstruated often in the last 20 years:

http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/duggarfamily.html

Baby #18 is coming to the Duggar family!

Wow, you're an idiot.

Syzygys
05-14-08, 07:57 AM
Wow, you just entered my Ignore list dumbfuck...

P.S.: I don't have a problem with criticism if it is backed up by resoning...

P.S.S.: Just to show, I never namecall, I even give am explanation of your dumbfuckness.

Anybody is a dumbfuck by definition who namecalls others without good reason. If you actually read the thread, you realize that one expert came to exactly the same conclusion, like I did. Just because you don't understand the concept, that doesn't mean that others are idiots. Chances are YOU ARE! :)

Syzygys
05-14-08, 08:26 AM
Well, maybe I used the wrong word. Probably should have used "not normal", meaning that in the average lifecycle of a female mammal menstruation doesn't occur very often, thus it is more of the exception than the average event.

But I see people having problems with "not normal", too...The natural, normal state of a healthy female mammal is being pregnant or lactating...

Syzygys
05-14-08, 08:38 AM
You might as well argue that not having a coat of fur is not normal,

That is a thought.


I wonder, do chimps bleed monthly?

Not if there is male nearby. Chimps are sexmachines. Seriously...

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 09:13 AM
Well, maybe I used the wrong word. Probably should have used "not normal", meaning that in the average lifecycle of a female mammal menstruation doesn't occur very often, thus it is more of the exception than the average event.

But I see people having problems with "not normal", too...The natural, normal state of a healthy female mammal is being pregnant or lactating...

... and the natural course of a female mammal life cycle is dieing young.

Syzygys
05-14-08, 10:45 AM
Correct. Living to ripe old age isn't common in the nature...

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 10:48 AM
Correct. Living to ripe old age isn't common in the nature...

...their for what should we do about it?

I thought you were ignoring me? I was enjoying it.

Syzygys
05-14-08, 11:59 AM
I said I will put you on Ignore for a week, and it was like 10 days, so you can come out of the corner... :)

Now not every unnatural, non-normal act requires an action. Just people should know that living up to 90 is more of the exception than the norm...

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 12:45 PM
I said I will put you on Ignore for a week, and it was like 10 days, so you can come out of the corner... :)

Now not every unnatural, non-normal act requires an action. Just people should know that living up to 90 is more of the exception than the norm...

I was in the corner, only in your head :D

Exactly so the unnatural things of not keeping a women pregnant or lactating does need require an action. And living to 90 may be consider middle age by 2150.

CutsieMarie89
05-14-08, 12:48 PM
I don't think the human body was designed to live much longer than 40 years or so. It might be bad if people were living to 180 and people were still constanly having 18 kids at their leisure. We would eventually run out of room.

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 01:10 PM
I don't think the human body was designed to live much longer than 40 years or so. It might be bad if people were living to 180 and people were still constanly having 18 kids at their leisure. We would eventually run out of room.

I don't think the a body that can live to 180 will be classifiable as human. Also if the standard of living is high enough for people to live to 180, they will be having children at a rate even lower the todays 1st world countries.

Syzygys
05-14-08, 01:32 PM
I was in the corner, only in your head :D

Hey you can say whatever you want behind my back. But if you wish so, I can put you back on ignore, just ask me.


And living to 90 may be consider middle age by 2150.

I doubt it. Today's generation is the first who are not going to live LONGER than their parents, according to new estimates...

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 01:38 PM
Hey you can say whatever you want behind my back. But if you wish so, I can put you back on ignore, just ask me.



I doubt it. Today's generation is the first who are not going to live LONGER than their parents, according to new estimates...

Oh please do, ignoring me does not hurt me, no matter how much you would like it too.

First of all Americans may live shorter lives, because their to fat, the average lifespan world wide is still going up.

visceral_instinct
05-14-08, 03:18 PM
Menstruation is disgusting, and all women should be ashamed of themselves, but I don't think it's unnatural.

Yeah, we chose to have menstrual periods, because we just love being in pain and bleeding from our sexual organs.

You're an IDIOT.

Syzygys
05-14-08, 05:07 PM
Oh please do, ignoring me does not hurt me, no matter how much you would like it too.

I didn't do it to hurt you, I just don't feel like conversing with you, you idiot. :)

On Ignore until further notice....

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 05:31 PM
I didn't do it to hurt you, I just don't feel like conversing with you, you idiot. :)

On Ignore until further notice....

For an idiot I sure do know how to play you, like a fiddle. :cool:

Orleander
05-14-08, 06:42 PM
what a pair of idiots, people like that should be forcefully sterilised. ....

Why? :bugeye:
They raise their own food, built their own house, raise their children responsibly. They aren't a drain on society, like some women who have 3 children by 3 different fathers and sit on welfare.

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 08:21 PM
Why? :bugeye:
They raise their own food, built their own house, raise their children responsibly. They aren't a drain on society, like some women who have 3 children by 3 different fathers and sit on welfare.

Eventual those self sustain "responsible" people are going to have grandchild and great grandchild in the dozens and even hundreds, some of who will be sitting on welfare, so they represent 20, 30, who knows how many social deadbeats several generations down the line.

If you have 2 or less children you doing good for society now and tomorrow.

Orleander
05-14-08, 08:23 PM
Is this what people thought about the Kennedys?

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 08:28 PM
Is this what people thought about the Kennedys?

I'm a person, and I think that of all "breeders", so yes "people" thought that about the Kennedys, thankfully the family curse has kill a lot of them off.

Orleander
05-14-08, 08:29 PM
Breeders?

ElectricFetus
05-14-08, 08:36 PM
Breeders?

GIYD!

humans who take upon them selves to give up on human reason and instead live by their animal instincts and churn out more mouths to add to the plague that is the human race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_(slang))