Is it right for homosexuals to be able to adopt??

I personally do not think its right, i think that its not fair to the child, because "some" (not all) homosexuals want a child has a fasion statement and thats not right nor fair on the child.

Also has proper family values gone out of the window, whatever happened to "mum and Dad"?

So i am asking should it be:

Mum and dad?
Dad and Dad?
or even

Mum and Mum?

Can you add another option? All of the above?

And I think your reasoning is flawed. Some heterosexuals want a child as a fashion statement too, that doesn't stop us from letting them marry.

I don't personally feel it is right.

Would you hire a gay man to be a nanny for your 5 year old son or a lesbian for your little girl? I would not want that.

I think that all people that adopt should undergo much more then a Home study, they should undergo extensive psychoanalysis for an extended period before and for several years after with the whole family.


I don't even think a lesbian should be allowed to run a girls dorm at collage. { my sister has that problem now} I mean what's the difference between hiring a man or a woman to live in a girls/boys dorm. i mean if the person is gay, either way the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there. So to with a gay or lesbian with a child of the same sex.

I think you might be getting homosexuality mixed up with paedophilia here!

Not the same thing.

Agreed, I wouldn't reject a homosexual nanny on just his/her homosexuality alone.

Is it right for homosexuals to be able to adopt??


Yes.

i think that its not fair to the child, because "some" (not all) homosexuals want a child has a fasion statement and thats not right nor fair on the child.
I doubt anyone would want to go through the hell that is adoption, pay through the nose for it, and then have to care and raise that child, for a fashion statement. If they adopt a child and love and care for it, why not? Would you rather the child not be adopted at all? There are millions of children who are without home and/or love in this world. I think that is unfair. I also think allowing homosexuals to adopt hereby ensures those children are going to a loving and caring home.

Also has proper family values gone out of the window, whatever happened to "mum and Dad"?
How exactly would you define "proper family values"?

Would you hire a gay man to be a nanny for your 5 year old son or a lesbian for your little girl?

Yes. I have a friend, who happens to be homosexual, and he's the one I usually call on to babysit the children if my husband and I want to catch a movie or dinner. He's great with them and they adore him. My eldest thinks he's the best thing aside from cars (my 2 year old son is obsessed with cars).

I wouldn't even ask what their sexuality was to be honest. It really is none of my business. I would, however, be concerned about is their experience and references and also if my children liked them. That's kind of what matters when hiring a nanny.

I would not want that
Then don't do it.

I don't even think a lesbian should be allowed to run a girls dorm at collage. { my sister has that problem now} I mean what's the difference between hiring a man or a woman to live in a girls/boys dorm. i mean if the person is gay, either way the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there. So to with a gay or lesbian with a child of the same sex.
Do you think all homosexuals are raging sex fiends out to plunder and conquer? Do you think a lesbian running a dorm room will scream "we come for your women folk" as she turns out the dorm lights and locks the doors?

Do you think homosexuals are automatically paedophiles because they are homosexuals?

I think children still need a mother and a father. However, who I am to deny homosexual couples adoption..
It's a difficult subject, to me at least.

"the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there" Thats my opinion. I could give a rats ass about YOUR opinion of my opinion.

"the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there"

That is there regardless of the sexual orientation of the adopters.

To answer the question, yes. People are capable of being good parents reagardless of their sexual orientation.

But I have problems with the poll options too--there should be an "all of the above."

For those who are arguing that a child needs both a mother and a father, I presume you would also be against single parents? So you would be OK with taking a child from a single mother and giving it to a lesbian mother and a gay father?

To answer the question, yes. People are capable of being good parents reagardless of their sexual orientation.

But I have problems with the poll options too--there should be an "all of the above."

For those who are arguing that a child needs both a mother and a father, I presume you would also be against single parents? So you would be OK with taking a child from a single mother and giving it to a lesbian mother and a gay father?

the majority pf single mothers has husbands, boy friends, girl friends, and partners once upon a time, and they're kids generally see the adsent father, ok i know in some cases the dads dont see the kids and also vise versa but they generally have male/female rolemodels

Almost every state in the union refuses to grant adoption rights to a single male with no children, not so with a female. So considering the comments some of you have made you must think that the government thinks all single men are pedophiles? or is it because "the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there" ?

Almost every state in the union refuses to grant adoption rights to a single male with no children, not so with a female. So considering the comments some of you have made you must think that the government thinks all single men are pedophiles? or is it because "the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there" ?

i also think the single people shouldnt be able to adopt either allbeit male or female

the majority pf single mothers has husbands, boy friends, girl friends, and partners once upon a time, and they're kids generally see the adsent father, ok i know in some cases the dads dont see the kids and also vise versa but they generally have male/female rolemodels

True. I wasn't arguing that single mother's shouldn't be able to raise children, just that the logic being used could lead to a conclusion that 2 gay parents (who were present & fully involved) were better than 1 single parent.

Almost every state in the union refuses to grant adoption rights to a single male with no children, not so with a female. So considering the comments some of you have made you must think that the government thinks all single men are pedophiles? or is it because "the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there" ?

"the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there"
Isn't this also true for single mothers ? Ok maybe the chance is much smaller, but there is still a chance.

"the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there"
Isn't this also true for single mothers ? Ok maybe the chance is much smaller, but there is still a chance.

I totally agree, but for some reason the government does not.

I totally agree, but for some reason the government does not.

Maybe because it is natural for women to have children, while it is not for men. Women are evolutionary wise very well equipped to deal with children while men are not..
It's really pretty sensible..

mom and dad only...or mom alone...or dad alone.

Everything else is wrong.

I don't personally feel it is right.

Would you hire a gay man to be a nanny for your 5 year old son or a lesbian for your little girl? I would not want that.

I think that all people that adopt should undergo much more then a Home study, they should undergo extensive psychoanalysis for an extended period before and for several years after with the whole family.


I don't even think a lesbian should be allowed to run a girls dorm at collage. { my sister has that problem now} I mean what's the difference between hiring a man or a woman to live in a girls/boys dorm. i mean if the person is gay, either way the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there. So to with a gay or lesbian with a child of the same sex.

That was one idiotic post. There's a fucking difference between being gay and being a paedophile.

Maybe because it is natural for women to have children, while it is not for men. Women are evolutionary wise very well equipped to deal with children while men are not..
It's really pretty sensible..

what do you mean men are not meant to have children? Men are equipped to be fathers just as women are equipped to be mothers.

...Also has proper family values gone out of the window, whatever happened to "mum and Dad"?...

I am confused as to how a bi-sexual swinger can say proper family values has gone out the window. :confused:

That was one idiotic post. There's a fucking difference between being gay and being a pedophile.

As I see it homosexuality is by it's very nature deviant sexuality. It may be IDIOTIC to you but my thought is that if a man is molesting a boy then he is Homosexual. therefor I am very leary of a gay man near a defenseless young male child.



[/QUOTE]what do you mean men are not meant to have children? Men are equipped to be fathers just as women are equipped to be mothers.[/QUOTE]

I assume he/she means that genetics and evolution has hard coded the females of our species for motherly instinct, men, not so much. I agree. Good with kids, depending on the male yes. created to be with kids, no.

what do you mean men are not meant to have children? Men are equipped to be fathers just as women are equipped to be mothers.

I never said men were not meant to have children.
As far as I know men can't breastfeed babies. It is also true that women make far better 'mothers' than men, generally speaking.
And I don't agree with your statement that men are evolutionary equipped to be caring fathers.

what do you mean men are not meant to have children? Men are equipped to be fathers just as women are equipped to be mothers.
I assume she means that genetics and evolution has hard coded the females of our species for motherly instinct, men, not so much. I agree. Good with kids, depending on the male yes. created to be with kids, no.

Thank you, that's what I meant. It's 'he' by the way ;)

as long as they have someone to love them, why does it matter what goes on in the parents bedroom??

Luci, do you think they should be foster parents? If they are once married and then come out of teh closet, should their children be taken away?

I am confused as to how a bi-sexual swinger can say proper family values has gone out the window. :confused:

i am with my husband and i hide how i feal from my children, until they are old enough to know how they fel and what they feal it will stay that way.

i am not rasing my children up in a homosexual relationship

As I see it homosexuality is by it's very nature deviant sexuality. It may be IDIOTIC to you but my thought is that if a man is molesting a boy then he is Homosexual. therefor I am very leary of a gay man near a defenseless young male child.

Uh, as opposed to daddy being with daddy's little girl or mummy being with her new son? Can't let hetero daddy with with his girl cause he might boink her. Can't let homo daddy be with his little boy cause he might boink him. Same for hetero/homo mum. Whelp, looks like nobody can have children then! I don't want you, as a bisexual, to ever adopt a little girl cause you might molest her too, and even the son since you go both ways.

As someone else said, don't confuse homosexuality with pedophilia, cause ya look like a quack.

- N

As I see it homosexuality is by it's very nature deviant sexuality. It may be IDIOTIC to you but my thought is that if a man is molesting a boy then he is Homosexual. therefor I am very leary of a gay man near a defenseless young male child.



what do you mean men are not meant to have children? Men are equipped to be fathers just as women are equipped to be mothers.[/QUOTE]

I assume he/she means that genetics and evolution has hard coded the females of our species for motherly instinct, men, not so much. I agree. Good with kids, depending on the male yes. created to be with kids, no.[/QUOTE]

Deviant sexuality? For the last time, there is a difference between having sex with another CONSENTING ADULT and RAPING AN INNOCENT KID.

Not all women have motherly instincts. Some are irritable PMS-monsters who yell at their kids if they put a foot out of line. Same with men, some are really good with kids, some are not. Making a blanket judgement based on gender is worthless.

looking like a "quack" is easy. You see what you do is, take a portion of a comment, you quote it and then comment on just those words. This way you can change the CONTEXT of what someone says to fit anything you might want to say.
It's a very popular method, splinter religions have been doing it for a long time now. :)

K.FLINT, visceral_instinct is right. Please, just admit you made a mistake.

NO>

quote / For the last time, there is a difference between having sex with another CONSENTING ADULT and RAPING AN INNOCENT KID./quote


I never argued that point, I said, the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there, and is a greater chance with a homosexual then with a heterosexual male. I say this because in {my opinion} a man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual. Therefore the odds that a gay man rather then a straight man may molest a boy is very clear.

As for Deviant sexuality and homosexuality there are plenty of psychological texts on abnormal sexuality, feel free to formulate your own opinion. I promise you I will not CARE what your opinion is. I will debate with you but will not concede my opinion as right or wrong to anyone at anytime, nor should anyone else, there is no right or wrong. To ask that is insane :bugeye:

By that logic, should fathers be discouraged to have daughters?

That'd be an interesting study if it exists. The recorded sexual orientation of pedophile attacks in the US. I'm actually curious and would like to know if such a thing exists, not suggesting that it would imply anything.

By that logic, should fathers be discouraged to have daughters?

That'd be an interesting study if it exists. The recorded sexual orientation of pedophile attacks in the US. I'm actually curious and would like to know if such a thing exists, not suggesting that it would imply anything.

NOT sure, but the percentage of a homosexual assaulting a female is much lower then that of a Heterosexual.

Again, I in no way believe that ALL homosexuals are pedophiles, my thought was only that, people that engage in deviant sexual practices are more of a threat. According to many experts the people who engage in deviant sexual practices are significantly more prone to psychopathic rage, dissociational episodes, depression, etc. Showing that there are aspects of there mental make up that are out of balance.

NO>

I never argued that point, I said, the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there, and is a greater chance with a homosexual then with a heterosexual male. I say this because in {my opinion} a man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual. Therefore the odds that a gay man rather then a straight man may molest a boy is very clear.


That post makes no sense. You are suggesting that gay men are more likely to molest boys, but what's that got to do with adoption?
Married couples might be bisexual or closet homosexuals, so what's to stop them adopting?
By your logic it would be ok for a male couple to adopt a girl but not a boy. :rolleyes:

NOT sure, but the percentage of a homosexual assaulting a female is much lower then that of a Heterosexual.

Again, I in no way believe that ALL homosexuals are pedophiles, my thought was only that, people that engage in deviant sexual practices are more of a threat. According to many experts the people who engage in deviant sexual practices are significantly more prone to psychopathic rage, dissociational episodes, depression, etc. Showing that there are aspects of there mental make up that are out of balance.

Since when are homosexuals defined as sexual deviants?

By that logic, should fathers be discouraged to have daughters?

That'd be an interesting study if it exists. The recorded sexual orientation of pedophile attacks in the US. I'm actually curious and would like to know if such a thing exists, not suggesting that it would imply anything.

I did a quick search and what I found was " there are 281.7 times more pedophile attacks on male children then female in (non-incest) accounts.


If my opinion on "any man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual" is correct, then those numbers are staggering.

Since when are homosexuals defined as sexual deviants?

As for Deviant sexuality and homosexuality there are plenty of psychological texts on {abnormal sexuality}, feel free to formulate your own opinion.

It's not considered abnormal, whatever texts you are reading are about 30 years out of date. Abuse of kids is however, not normal, it's not one of the categories of normal sexual behavior, but something separate from it.

I think single men should also be allowed to adopt. Our culture is prejudiced against men, they often don't get custody of their kids in a divorce, and that's wrong.

I did a quick search and what I found was " there are 281.7 times more pedophile attacks on male children then female in (non-incest) accounts.


If my opinion on "any man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual" is correct, then those numbers are staggering.

Could you please cite where you are getting this information and post the reference.

Thanks.

As to adoption I would rather see a child placed in a healthy environment with nurturing parents (regardless of gender). Here is some information that I found:

"Studies examining children raised by a gay parent or parents have shown no difference in developmental outcomes as compared with children raised by heterosexual parents.

In an April 2001 article in the American Sociological Review, researchers Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz of the University of Southern California reported the results of their examination of 21 studies on gay parenting. Stacey and Biblarz found that although "the authors of all 21 studies almost uniformly claim to find no differences in measures of parenting or child outcomes," their examination of the data suggests that the children of gay parents demonstrate some differences in gender behavior and preferences. Lesbian mothers reported their children, especially daughters, are less likely to conform to cultural gender norms in dress, play, and behavior, and are more likely to aspire to nontraditional gender occupations, such as doctors, lawyers, or engineers. They also discovered that although the children of gay and lesbian parents are no more likely to identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual than the children of heterosexual parents, they are more likely to consider or experiment with same-sex relationships during young adulthood.

Stacey and Biblarz also found that the children of homosexual parents show no difference in levels of self-esteem, anxiety, depression, behavior problems, or social performance, but do show a higher level of affection, responsiveness, and concern for younger children and "seem to exhibit impressive psychological strength."

Gay parents were found to be more likely to equally share child care and household duties, and the children of gay partners reported closer relationships to the parent who was not their primary caregiver than did the children of heterosexual couples. "These findings imply that lesbian coparents may enjoy greater parental compatibility and achieve particularly high quality parenting skills, which may help explain the striking findings on parent-child relationships."

Stacey and Biblarz point out that the differences they found should not be considered deficits. "They either favor the children with lesbigay parents, are secondary effects of social prejudice, or represent 'just a difference' of the sort democratic societies should respect and protect." They go on to stress that categorizing parents as gay or heterosexual "erroneously impl[ies] that a parent's sexual orientation is the decisive characteristic of his or her parenting." They suggest that sexual orientation only matters because homophobia and discrimination say it matters."

Child Welfare League of America
Children's Voice Article, January 2002
Gay Adoption
by Kristen Kreisher

Here is a link to the article cited in the article:
(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?, pp. 159-183
Judith Stacey; Timothy J. Biblarz
http://www.jstor.org/view/00031224/di015126/01p0002h/0?frame=noframe&userID=86c0fa01@hshsl.maryland.edu/01c0a8486b0050728af&dpi=3&config=jstor

It's not considered abnormal, whatever texts you are reading are about 30 years out of date.

American Psychiatric Association, 2004, "Research shows that homosexuals suffer from more mental illness than heterosexuals".."homosexuality is no longer considered a disorder in its self". "ego-dystonic homosexuality is still considered a disorder", 'homosexuality is now listed as a fetish", fetishes are still considered abnormal sexual practice.

In the end, this debate is opinion based. It will never be "WON" only rehashed in different ways over and over. It's good to share views, and when one believes that there mode of thinking is correct they can only hope that there words gave insight to others. I have nothing against those who are homosexual. I have also found the views of others here informational. thanks. bye. :)

Could you please provide a link and author?

Thanks

In the end, this debate is opinion based. It will never be "WON" only rehashed in different ways over and over. It's good to share views, and when one believes that there mode of thinking is correct they can only hope that there words gave insight to others. I have nothing against those who are homosexual. I have also found the views of others here informational. thanks. bye. :)

So, having a fetish makes one unable to care for children? FYI, heteros have plenty of fetishes too.

So, having a fetish makes one unable to care for children? FYI, heteros have plenty of fetishes too.

Oh yeah! PLENTY....so I've heard. ;)

If my opinion on "any man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual" is correct, then those numbers are staggering.

Well, duh, any man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner is homosexual because it's an act taking place between two of the same sex. Same way any woman that assaults a young girl is a homosexual too. What about a man that assaults a girl or a woman that assaults a boy in a sexual manner? Oh, that's just pedophilia, so it's not as bad or what? All those cases are pedophilia cases, and you're so paranoid that nobody should be able to adopt, I guess. And "daddy's little girl" has existed long before "daddy's little boy".

- N

That doesn't include what you two do on Saturdays Orleander, that's just sick.

You sexual deviants, you.

- N

That doesn't include what you two do on Saturdays Orleander, that's just sick.

Hey!! I said I wasn't gonna put that into rotation! :p

I did a quick search and what I found was " there are 281.7 times more pedophile attacks on male children then female in (non-incest) accounts.

If my opinion on "any man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual" is correct, then those numbers are staggering.

It's also totally irrelevant here & misleadingly used out of context. The research found that according to self-report by unincarerated sex offenders those who abused boys had more victims (averaging 281.7 incidents) than did those who abused girls (averaging 20 victims). The same study found

Only 21 percent of the child molesters we studied who assault little boys were exclusively homosexual. Nearly 80 percent of the men who molested little boys were heterosexual or bisexual, and most of these men were married and had children of their own.

Statistics reporting interfamial sexual abuse (what you're talking about regarding adopted parents or step parents for that matter) are not even included in reports of pedophiles for most States. When you look at interfamilial childhood sexual abuse rates the victims are over twice as likely to be female.

I see no problem with gay couples being able to adopt, as long as they provide a safe and healthy enviroment for the child.

American Psychiatric Association, 2004, "Research shows that homosexuals suffer from more mental illness than heterosexuals".."homosexuality is no longer considered a disorder in its self". "ego-dystonic homosexuality is still considered a disorder", 'homosexuality is now listed as a fetish", fetishes are still considered abnormal sexual practice.

Women are also more likely to suffer from a mental illness than are men, are they abnormal too?

Also, homosexuality is not listed by the APA as a fetish--I suspect this is another case of you selectively quoting something out-of-context.

In the end, this debate is opinion based.

Only because you have no real data to support your view.

Could you please provide a link and author?

Thanks

This is the study I believe he's referring to:
Gene Abel et al., “Self-Reported Sex Crimes of Nonincarcerated Paraphiliacs,” Journal of Interpersonal Violence 2 (March 1987): 3-25.

As I said elsewhere, he's misquoting the findings.

This is the study I believe he's referring to:
Gene Abel et al., “Self-Reported Sex Crimes of Nonincarcerated Paraphiliacs,” Journal of Interpersonal Violence 2 (March 1987): 3-25.

As I said elsewhere, he's misquoting the findings.

I'll have to retrace my steps before I list the sources I read, give me a bit, as for Journal of Interpersonal Violence being " my " source lol. those stats are listed in several different locations, you see its published then people use it, here are some examples that use those ratios ALL FROM the very FIRST search page. Guilty of not doing research like I would for a formal paper, yes, At most I did not compare all the papers to come to a universal fact, but misrepresenting data, no. you, on the other hand are very quick on the character assassination trigger. think before you speak/write.

Meridian Magazine ::In Defense of Marriage
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/040223marriage.html

CHILD MOLESTATION AND THE HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT
www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/academics/lawreview/articles/14_2baldwin.PDF

Rumination's - My opinions and thoughts
rumination1.blogspot.com

[PDF]
Sexual Orientation
www.unitedfamilies.org/marriageSexualOrientation.pdf

No Second Chances for Murderers, Rapists or Child Molesters Act of ...
commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju62269.000/hju62269_0.HTM

you, on the other hand are very quick on the character assassination trigger. think before you speak/write.


It's not about character assassination--it's about poor research and using second hand data from questionable sources. If you say it's an honest mistake, fine, but I would suggest being a little more critical about the sources of your informations.

I read through the references you cited and unfortunately am not in agreement with the opinions reached by the authors. I was hoping for something less religious based and a bit more scientific in a peer reviewed article.Thank you for the links, I appreciate it.

Here is an article from Pediatrics:
Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?
Carole Jenny, Thomas A. Roesler, and Kimberly L. Poyer
Pediatrics 1994; 94: 41-44.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/94/1/41

This is from the abstract:
"In 82% of cases (222/269), the alleged offender was a heterosexual partner of a close relative of the child. Using the data from our study, the 95% confidence limits, of the risk children would identify recognizably homosexual adults as the potential abuser, are from 0% to 3.1%. These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community."

I wouldn't bar homosexuals from adopting, I'd just give preference to heterosexual couples. I think the best environment for a child is with a mother and a father. But if a particular child can't find a match, he/she would probably be better off with a homosexual couple than no parents at all.
recognizably homosexual adults as the potential abuser, are from 0% to 3.1%. These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community."Interesting. You often hear figures like 10% being thrown around, which I always thought was high.

I wouldn't bar homosexuals from adopting, I'd just give preference to heterosexual couples. I think the best environment for a child is with a mother and a father. But if a particular child can't find a match, he/she would probably be better off with a homosexual couple than no parents at all.

What sort of an effect will homosexual parents have on children? (particularly younger children)

Are the children more likely to become homosexuals themselves?

Out of all relationships, how much of them are homosexual relationships? what is the rough percentage? I don't think it can't be that high. Is it fair on a child to be raised in such a household?

Well if homosexuality is not a choice the there is absolutely no reason to think that Gay parents will produce a gay adopted child.

Well if homosexuality is not a choice the there is absolutely no reason to think that Gay parents will produce a gay adopted child.

If homosexuality is not a choice...

Imagine a young child being raised by a homosexual couple. Imagine how confused s/he would be. Imagine the kid seeing all the other children at school with a mum and dad. I think that would do alot of damage to the kid.

If homosexuality is not a choice...

Imagine a young child being raised by a homosexual couple. Imagine how confused s/he would be. Imagine the kid seeing all the other children at school with a mum and dad. I think that would do alot of damage to the kid.

Most doctors/psychologist agree that homosexuality is not a choice. But for your sake lets just say it is, and that kid ends up gay, should we not allow children to be adopted my muslims because the majority of our population is not muslim? We do seem to have a fear of muslims as well as homosexuals prevalent in our society right now, so why should we let these poor children be subjected to and influenced by these awful choices? Furthermore what is actually wrong with being homosexual? besides the fact that certain religious groups view it as wrong. They also view false prohpets as wrong, so no adopted kids for Mormons as well!

I mean if homosexuals cant adopt children because interaction could cause the children to be gay, then why not jsut ban homosexuals from having any contact with children?

I grew up in a straight household and I'm straight. If a gay couple raises their kid to be gay (which is ridiculous), so what?
What's so wrong with being gay?

Nothing, thats my point XD

Most doctors/psychologist agree that homosexuality is not a choice. But for your sake lets just say it is, and that kid ends up gay, should we not allow children to be adopted my muslims because the majority of our population is not muslim? We do seem to have a fear of muslims as well as homosexuals prevalent in our society right now, so why should we let these poor children be subjected to and influenced by these awful choices? Furthermore what is actually wrong with being homosexual? besides the fact that certain religious groups view it as wrong. They also view false prohpets as wrong, so no adopted kids for Mormons as well!

I mean if homosexuals cant adopt children because interaction could cause the children to be gay, then why not jsut ban homosexuals from having any contact with children?

I'm not just talking about the possibility of the kid ending up gay. Just imagine the amount of hardship the kid would go through if s/he had homosexual parents. The link provided by Faerynght suggests that homosexuals at max. make up only 3.1% of the general community. That is an extremely small percentage. Now we know homosexuals are not completely accepted by everyone, there is still a lot of hostility towards them - they still have to deal with verbal/physical abuse. Homosexuals can still be regarded as a small and marginalised fringe within society. Is it fair for a child to be given to this marginalised fringe? It will have vast repercussions for the child. I would not wish that sort of hardship and confusion on a young child.

An older child would be better suited to deal with such a situation.

Furthermore what is actually wrong with being homosexual?

That is irrelevant.

Your Muslim analogy doesn't hold water. Religion can be changed at the drop of hat. A person can be a Muslim in the morning, a Christian by lunch, a Hindu by dinner and then a Muslim again before the day is done. People can and do change their beliefs, some people go back and forth. I don't think sexuality is like that at all.

I mean if homosexuals cant adopt children because interaction could cause the children to be gay, then why not jsut ban homosexuals from having any contact with children?

You cannot compare the odd interaction with homosexuals here and there to being raised by a homosexual couple.

I'm not just talking about the possibility of the kid ending up gay. Just imagine the amount of hardship the kid would go through if s/he had homosexual parents. The link provided by Faerynght suggests that homosexuals at max. make up only 3.1% of the general community. That is an extremely small percentage. Now we know homosexuals are not completely accepted by everyone, there is still a lot of hostility towards them - they still have to deal with verbal/physical abuse. Homosexuals can still be regarded as a small and marginalised fringe within society. Is it fair for a child to be given to this marginalised fringe? It will have vast repercussions for the child. I would not wish that sort of hardship and confusion on a young child.

An older child would be better suited to deal with such a situation.


having Interacial parents can also cause a child to be abused in school, Should we not allow those people to adopt children either?


That is irrelevant.

Your Muslim analogy doesn't hold water. Religion can be changed at the drop of hat. A person can be a Muslim in the morning, a Christian by lunch, a Hindu by dinner and then a Muslim again before the day is done. People can and do change their beliefs, some people go back and forth. I don't think sexuality is like that at all.

It holds water under the premise that being a homosexual is a choice. If the religion you choose can be changed at the drop of a hat then why not your sexuality? If you choose it.


You cannot compare the odd interaction with homosexuals here and there to being raised by a homosexual couple.

Why not? God forbid some of the childs schoolyard friends see him talking to his gay relative, they might abuse him and call him gay. That would really mess a kid up man. Big time. :rolleyes:

I grew up in a straight household and I'm straight. If a gay couple raises their kid to be gay (which is ridiculous), so what?
What's so wrong with being gay?
Well,clearly it creates difficulties with reproduction, significantly increases your risk of AIDS (at least for males), and leads to problems due to intolerance.

But I wonder if being raised by homosexuals would really make one more likely to turn out gay? Clearly it would make you more open to the idea, perhaps more willing to experiment. But could it really alter your basic sexual orientation?

homosexuals want a child


Men and women have children as a natural consequence of sexual activity. It's not a want or desire.

Homosexuals want children because they fantasize a world in which their biology is the same as straights and all the persecution and harassment they suffer doesn't exist - in effect, they don't exist.

The minds capacity for self-delusion is huge.

But could it really alter your basic sexual orientation?

Well, do you think having straight parents can alter the sexual orientation of the child so they are not homosexual? Do you think if a heterosexual couple adopt a child, that child's sexual orientation will change to match the parent's? Personally I don't think so, especially when one looks at the fact that straight couples do have homosexual children.

Men and women have children as a natural consequence of sexual activity. It's not a want or desire.

Homosexuals want children because they fantasize a world in which their biology is the same as straights and all the persecution and harassment they suffer doesn't exist - in effect, they don't exist.

The minds capacity for self-delusion is huge.

I know a lesbian couple who are trying to get pregnant. Because they would love to have children. Not some fantasy of being heterosexual. You clearly have no notion what you are talking about.

I'm not just talking about the possibility of the kid ending up gay. Just imagine the amount of hardship the kid would go through if s/he had homosexual parents.....

and why do those kids have that hardship?
because they get crap from other kids who's parents are hypocrites judging other's sex lives? (?? did that make sense?)

And seriously, when haven't kids picked on kids.

they fantasize a world in which ... all the persecution and harassment they suffer doesn't exist

The persecution and harassment based on sexual orientation shouldn't exist and by suggesting that homosexuals shouldn't have children, you continue to let them exist.

I am not sure how many of you have school aged children, my child has two friends one male from a male homosexual adoption and one female from a lesbian couple which did IVF. Both of the children are well adjusted, extremely intelligent, emotionally sound and socially accepted by all the other parents/guardians and their peer group. They are treated the same way any other teenager is treated and neither of the children are homosexuals, not that their sexuality would matter to me or my child. I find it interesting that anyone would sacrifice a child having a caring, loving, stable environment based on a parents sexuality when their are plenty of abusive, unstable, heterosexual couples that fail miserably at being adequate parents. This is my opinion based on the literature (peer reviewed journal articles, psychology books, etc.) I have read and my own personal experience, I am sure many will disagree and I would like to know the reasoning behind the disagreement and what it is based upon (i.e. religion, personal experiences, etc.).

Thanks!

Good post Faerynght :bravo:

Faerynght...yes the children look well adapted, but the results of the scars from homosexuality show up after a lifetime...when they end their lineage or do divorces.

Its too early to judge their angelic lifes.

I agree it is too early to determine conclusive results in these relationships, my child has a large group of peers and these two children happen to have a very close relationship with my child which allows me to observe them frequently. I am fortunate to be able to interact often and closely with my child's peer group and I can identify many children from heterosexual couples that are already showing signs of mental, emotional, and physical abuse both by self and members of their family unit. It is concerning to me and after discussions with the parents (heterosexual couples) of the/these child(ren) regarding acceptable behaviour and the safety of their child I understand why the child(ren) exhibit these tendencies and behaviours.

Many people are divorced and emotionally "scarred" that come from heterosexual parents. I would estimate that eighty percent of my peer group is divorced and they all came from heterosexual parents.

dragon-Could you please identify the "scars" of homosexuality and how you formed this conclusion?

Thanks Orleander!

Because they would love to have children.


I see.

Let's change the word want to love which will make the whole thing sound more natural - naturally.

Love doesn't create children S.A.M. As a biologist I thought you would know that.

Not some fantasy of being heterosexual.

The fear of being different from the crowd determines most of our lives in the Modern world. It's certainly strong enough to overcome such weak ideas as 'love'. You only have to witness on these forums the terror that is invoked at the mere mention of the word race and any differences it might imply. I know you argued quite categorically against such ideas and yet you quite easily and openly accept the existence of gays. Well, I won't demand of you genetic evidence proving their existence S.A.M., but simply suggest that there is a lot more going on in your mind than what you would refer to as 'objective science'.

For gay couples a baby is simply a product - an object - which will complete their fantasy of 'sameness' with heterosexual's. The homosexual is just as ruthless as any animal in its desire to escape annihilation. To do this it must conceal the very qualities which make it different. It's great weakness is in its inability to reproduce and modern society allows it to hide that weakness through adoption.

One of your lesbian friends is trying to get pregnant - presumably by a man - who then becomes the natural father. And yet the child will be raised as if it has two mothers. This is typical of the way the modern world defiles nature by projecting artificial sets of relationships over it. The social belief in 'rights' are an excellent example of that.

dragon-Could you please identify the "scars" of homosexuality and how you formed this conclusion?


http://www.g-a-y.co.uk/pictures/gaybarmcfly_main.jpg ->http://www.childrensaidsfund.org/images/CAFwebad08-03-05.GIF

The persecution and harassment based on sexual orientation shouldn't exist and by suggesting that homosexuals shouldn't have children, you continue to let them exist.


And volcanoes and earthquakes shouldn't exist and life should be like a Mary Poppins film.

Draqon

Are you asserting (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1651125&postcount=76) that homosexuals in Europe and the Americas caused AIDS in Africa?

Draqon

Are you asserting (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1651125&postcount=76) that homosexuals in Europe and the Americas caused AIDS in Africa?

no...I just couldnt find a picture of black gay dudes...its not something I search on internet. :rolleyes:

And volcanoes and earthquakes shouldn't exist and life should be like a Mary Poppins film.

Your reply in no way addresses you helping to continue the harassment and persecution referenced in my post.

I wouldn't bar homosexuals from adopting, I'd just give preference to heterosexual couples. I think the best environment for a child is with a mother and a father. But if a particular child can't find a match, he/she would probably be better off with a homosexual couple than no parents at all...
That seems reasonable.

This is typical of the way the modern world defiles nature by projecting artificial sets of relationships over it. The social belief in 'rights' are an excellent example of that.

We defile nature simply by using condoms. I see nothing wrong with that.

i think it is wrong for homosexual couples to adopt because - the aim of adoption is to give children the most comfortable, normal lives. Having Homosexual parents (may not necassarily) but is quite likely to induce forms of bullying and other forms of abuse which the child just doesnt need, it attracts unnecassary attention.

Dragon- thanks for the well thought, and insightful response, I appreciate it. This is not the response I had hope to illicit, I was hoping that you would provide me with some basis for your opinion.

Thanks

Your reply in no way addresses you helping to continue the harassment and persecution referenced in my post.


ashura,

You didn't prove that I was persecuting anyone. In fact, it was you who suggested that something shouldn't exist - not me.

We defile nature simply by using condoms. I see nothing wrong with that.

Man isn't born with a plastic sheath over his penis - why do you think that is the case? Give me your best answer.

Dragon- thanks for the well thought, and insightful response, I appreciate it. This is not the response I had hope to illicit, I was hoping that you would provide me with some basis for your opinion.

Thanks

basis? you mean statistical analysis of all the families with gay parents? And the children who grew to adults from those families...and their divorce ratios in respect to heterosexual families?

That is something I would have to look for a long time...no idea thou. I am sorry but the truth is, I dont want to waste time on this sort of research...not my specialty. Sorry*

i think it is wrong for homosexual couples to adopt because - the aim of adoption is to give children the most comfortable, normal lives. Having Homosexual parents (may not necassarily) but is quite likely to induce forms of bullying and other forms of abuse which the child just doesnt need, it attracts unnecassary attention.

Maybe we should do something about the bullying and let homosexuals adopt children?

How would a teenager that had been in a childrens home all their life feel if they were told that they could have been adopted but the law didn't allow gay couples the right to adopt? I'd rather have gay parents than no parents at all, the bullies can go fuck themselves (we don't stay kids forever).

I was hoping for an opinion on your fundamental principal regarding this topic. I am quite capable of doing my own research for published results...thanks

Maybe we should do something about the bullying and let homosexuals adopt children?

How would a teenager that had been in a childrens home all their life feel if they were told that they could have been adopted but the law didn't allow gay couples the right to adopt? I'd rather have gay parents than no parents at all, the bullies can go fuck themselves (we don't stay kids forever).

I admit that my philosophy has flaws in it. I'd be more than happy to attempt to root out bullying - but don't you think that maybe people have tried that before? and maybe is hasnt worked?

Maybe we should do something about the bullying and let homosexuals adopt children?

How would a teenager that had been in a childrens home all their life feel if they were told that they could have been adopted but the law didn't allow gay couples the right to adopt? I'd rather have gay parents than no parents at all, the bullies can go fuck themselves (we don't stay kids forever).

AGREED!!! :)

In fact, it was you who suggested that something shouldn't exist - not me.

My mistake for not putting the words "I think" somewhere in my earlier post.

Man isn't born with a plastic sheath over his penis - why do you think that is the case? Give me your best answer.

I have an idea but like I said, I have no problems with the defilement of nature so it wouldn't really matter to the discussion.

I admit that my philosophy has flaws in it. I'd be more than happy to attempt to root out bullying - but don't you think that maybe people have tried that before? and maybe is hasnt worked?

As more and more gay people came out of the closet, the stigma of being gay went away. If gays are allowed to adopt, the stigma of having gay parents will go away.
How parents raise their children is reflected in how they treat other children. (I should know. My daughter got into a knock down hair pulling fight at the bus stop defending another child.)
I don't think we are giving these children enough credit. This teasing and scarring for life was always behind my Mom's reasoning that black and white peopel shouldn't have children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

Maybe we should do something about the bullying and let homosexuals adopt children?


I concur. :)

....I'd rather have gay parents than no parents at all, the bullies can go fuck themselves (we don't stay kids forever).

Yeah, I don't know how people can con themselves into thinking its better to be in foster care for 18 yrs than be teased because of your parents.

As more and more gay people came out of the closet, the stigma of being gay went away. If gays are allowed to adopt, the stigma of having gay parents will go away.
How parents raise their children is reflected in how they treat other children. (I should know. My daughter got into a knock down hair pulling fight at the bus stop defending another child.)
I don't think we are giving these children enough credit. This teasing and scarring for life was always behind my Mom's reasoning that black and white peopel shouldn't have children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

you think theres still no stigma of being gay at school? lol your out of touch - maybe in america its different, but in england.,..

While the data isn't broken down by the sexual preference of parents, it does appear pretty clear that children are less likely to be abused by adoptive parents (or even foster parents) than they are by their own parents. The worse offenders, by far, though are step parents and step siblings (a child is less likely to be abused living with a single parent than with a parent and a step-parent). So if our major concern were preventing abuse to children we would be looking at banning step parents.

(If you want a summary of the issue involving step parents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_Effect)

Yeah, I don't know how people can con themselves into thinking its better to be in foster care for 18 yrs than be teased because of your parents.


Orleander,

At least in foster care you will not be under any illusions concerning your situation and left to make your own mind up concerning the world.

If you were adopted by a gay couple suddenly you find yourself forced into accepting a whole raft of politically and socially inspired ideas and possibly having to physically defend those ideas.

Should a child be burdened with that?

Orleander,

At least in foster care you will not be under any illusions concerning your situation and left to make your own mind up concerning the world.

If you were adopted by a gay couple suddenly you find yourself forced into accepting a whole raft of politically and socially inspired ideas and possibly having to physically defend those ideas.

Should a child be burdened with that?

Good point !

you think theres still no stigma of being gay at school? lol your out of touch - maybe in america its different, but in england.,..

Then, what is the solution to a non-white student suffering from stigma associated with his/her skin color? Should we not let non-whites in a white school, or should we work to get rid of the stigma?

i think it is wrong for homosexual couples to adopt because - the aim of adoption is to give children the most comfortable, normal lives. Having Homosexual parents (may not necassarily) but is quite likely to induce forms of bullying and other forms of abuse which the child just doesnt need, it attracts unnecassary attention.

I dont know what a "normal" life even is. Do you mean a family with hetrosexula parents is going to be more normal? I think not.

Orleander,

At least in foster care you will not be under any illusions concerning your situation and left to make your own mind up concerning the world.

If you were adopted by a gay couple suddenly you find yourself forced into accepting a whole raft of politically and socially inspired ideas and possibly having to physically defend those ideas.

Should a child be burdened with that?

The same could be said for interracial adoption. Is that grounds to disallow it?

I admit that my philosophy has flaws in it. I'd be more than happy to attempt to root out bullying - but don't you think that maybe people have tried that before? and maybe is hasnt worked?

Ahh, so instead lets just root out the rights of homosexuals.

you think theres still no stigma of being gay at school? lol your out of touch - maybe in america its different, but in england.,..

being gay or having gay parents?

At my school, being "gay" made you more popular with the popular kids.

Orleander,

At least in foster care you will not be under any illusions concerning your situation and left to make your own mind up concerning the world.

If you were adopted by a gay couple suddenly you find yourself forced into accepting a whole raft of politically and socially inspired ideas and possibly having to physically defend those ideas.

Should a child be burdened with that?

so, a couple can only adopt a child who's skin color and religion are the same also.
Kids don't care as long as they are loved!

At my school, being "gay" made you more popular with the popular kids.

Were the popular kids gay then ?

The same could be said for interracial adoption. Is that grounds to disallow it?


I think so - although it's off topic.

you think theres still no stigma of being gay at school? lol your out of touch - maybe in america its different, but in england.,..

No here in Canada I am sure you would get the shit beat out of you in highschool.

Were the popular kids gay then ?

Well some of them were. I can only think of one gay person that was not in the popular click at my school, and he is one of my best friends.



Not that many people in a westcoast highschool will give aperson crap about being gay.

so, a couple can only adopt a child who's skin color and religion are the same also.
Kids don't care as long as they are loved!


With this comment you've demonstrated that what we are discussing here is not just the question of gay adoption in isolation but Western civilization and its obsession with erasing all differences and promoting sameness.

And of course, the concept of 'love' is invoked. Isn't it always in these situations when the defenders of Western liberalism run into a wall with their thoughts?

The obsession isn't with erasing all differences. It's with tolerating all differences.

I dont know what a "normal" life even is. Do you mean a family with hetrosexula parents is going to be more normal? I think not.

i mean evading excessive bullying

:rolleyes:i mean evading excessive bullying

Ohh so the way society is going to work now is when a group of people treats another roup of people unfairly we are just going to take away the rights of the abused? That is moronic. Hey, women who get raped late at night are more likely to get raped because they shouldnt be out that late right? So dont punish the men who raped them, take away a womens right to walk alone at night!

:rolleyes:

Ohh so the way society is going to work now is when a group of people treats another roup of people unfairly we are just going to take away the rights of the abused? That is moronic. Hey, women who get raped late at night are more likely to get raped because they shouldnt be out that late right? So dont punish the men who raped them, take away a womens right to walk alone at night!

its not the gays being abused but the children.

its not the gays being abused but the children.

Did you really go through school without suffering from any kind of abuse? Hey I had a gay friend, people could have givin me shit for that. Should I have been banned from having gay friends to save myself from abuse?
or to save my others friends from getting bulleyed for knowing a guy who has a gay friend?

your taking this too personally - you need to look at it with the aims of adoption in mind, on a macro-level and why it is inadvisable to encourage gay adoption - im not saying it should be outlawed and i wouldnt be outraged if it happened but if given the choice i would encourage hetrosexual adoption.

your taking this too personally - you need to look at it with the aims of adoption in mind, on a macro-level and why it is inadvisable to encourage gay adoption - im not saying it should be outlawed and i wouldnt be outraged if it happened but if given the choice i would encourage hetrosexual adoption.

I asked DeepThought about this before; what is the solution to a non-white student suffering from stigma associated with his/her skin color? Should we not let non-whites in a white school, or should we work to get rid of the stigma?

your taking this too personally - you need to look at it with the aims of adoption in mind, on a macro-level and why it is inadvisable to encourage gay adoption - im not saying it should be outlawed and i wouldnt be outraged if it happened but if given the choice i would encourage hetrosexual adoption.

Well if being gay occurs naturally in humans, then how can we "encourage" hetrosexual adoption and call ourselves a free society. If two groups of adults one gay and the other straight want to adopt a child and both can provide a reasonable standard of living and a good enviroment for a child, then why shouldnt they both have an eqaul chance to adopt said child?

In this case you would give the hetrosexual couple the child just because they were not gay?

Would you do the same thing in the work place, if a straight man and a gay man were equally qualified for the same position?

I asked DeepThought about this before; what is the solution to a non-white student suffering from stigma associated with his/her skin color? Should we not let non-whites in a white school, or should we work to get rid of the stigma?

work to get rid of the stigma - but at the cost of how many screwed up children?

work to get rid of the stigma - but at the cost of how many screwed up children?

Do you think when black children were first integrated into white schools that didnt produce some messed up kids? Should we have just not allowed the parents to integrate their kids to protect them?

Do you think when black children were first integrated into white schools that didnt produce some messed up kids? Should we have just not allowed the parents to integrate their kids to protect them?


Why should black children be integrated into white schools?

Why not the other way round?

Why not both?

Why not both?


Why not stay in your own schools then?

bu tthe thing is -gay adoption isnt such a necassary thing (in my opinion) the segregation of 2 halves of the wolrd was fairly intense but gay couples not being able to adopt (while annoying to them) doesnt seem such a pressing issue to me. I have given my view take it or leave it.

bu tthe thing is -gay adoption isnt such a necassary thing (in my opinion) the segregation of 2 halves of the wolrd was fairly intense but gay couples not being able to adopt (while annoying to them) doesnt seem such a pressing issue to me. I have given my view take it or leave it.

Because gays dont deserve the same rights as any other american?

Why not stay in your own schools then?

Maybe the other school is better.

bu tthe thing is -gay adoption isnt such a necassary thing (in my opinion) the segregation of 2 halves of the wolrd was fairly intense but gay couples not being able to adopt (while annoying to them) doesnt seem such a pressing issue to me. I have given my view take it or leave it.

Heh, "two halves of the world" while referring to white and black Americans. Hilarious.

Because gays dont deserve the same rights as any other american?

That's an interesting way to put it. It's really more of a question of "gay couples not deserving the same rights as straight couples". And I honestly wouldn't be sure how to answer that. Rather, I think the question should be, "Why not"?

That's an interesting way to put it. It's really more of a question of "gay couples not deserving the same rights as straight couples". And I honestly wouldn't be sure how to answer that. Rather, I think the question should be, "Why not"?

I agree, and I dont think that "bullying" is a valid answer, but i do understand that some people do. I just fail to see it being that big of a problem, and tend to think that Religion may have a hand in it.

draqon:

Just so you know: the spread of AIDS in Africa is almost entirely a heterosexual affair.

Sooooo heres a question... if gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, what do you do about those that have thier own children either from previous relationships or artificial insemenation?

we need to avoid cases with: previous relationships and artificial insemination

however in both of these cases...the children needed to be treated with respect and taught that it is a proper way to live a heterosexual life married and not the way it happened with them. An excuse can be, such is a Gods plan...or something like that.

we need to avoid cases with: previous relationships and artificial insemination

however in both of these cases...the children needed to be treated with respect and taught that it is a proper way to live a heterosexual life married and not the way it happened with them. An excuse can be, such is a Gods plan...or something like that.

You just keep following me around this forum, huh?

Though I accept the fact that you are clearly ignorant of knowledge regarding a wide variety of topics, it is a waste of my eyesight to see even glance across your posts. They contain nothing even closely pertaining to any truths, and tend to be hatefilled, bigoted and discriminatory. I honestly am suprised you have no been banned from here by now for your comments.

Thank goodness for the IGNORE button!

proper way to live a heterosexual life married and not the way it happened with them. An excuse can be, such is a Gods plan...or something like that.

That may be what you think is the "proper" way, from my point of view that would be called being dishonest, which is wrong to me as I believe lying, omitting information, and being dishonest is poor behaviour and requires modification. This line of reasoning would not be tolerated and inappropriate in my household.

I believe that a couple regardless of orientation, race, religon that has the capabilities to adopt or foster should be able to do so, I am not sure what the process is outside of my state or the US but I know that there are stringent guidelines(i.e.; background reports, home visits, psychological testing) put into place prior to an adoption being made legal. My opinion is that if you have the resources available to adopt a child you will have the necessary resources to provide that child with any care that is required, including psychological care if need be. There is a need for adoptive parents that can offer many children a safe, nurturing environment.

Why should any child suffer due to another parents lack of good parenting and inability to teach acceptable social behaviour? In my opinion you should educate your child on how to deal with bullies especially so they know when to ask for assistance and also know what is acceptable behaviour. Self respect, empathy, compassion, and tolerance are things every parent should teach a child. I find this bullying "reasoning" insignificant in regards to opposing homosexual adoptions as this is a problem every parent will deal with when having a school aged child. I believe Orleander proved this in an earlier post regarding her child. Thanks!

Just so you know: the spread of AIDS in Africa is almost entirely a heterosexual affair.

I was actually getting ready to post some data regarding this topic, thanks for beating me to it, I could post some reference if anyone is interested in high risk hetrosexual HIV/AIDS transmission.

There are many homeless children in the world, maybe there is nothing wrong with homosexuals adopting these children.

You just keep following me around this forum, huh?

Though I accept the fact that you are clearly ignorant of knowledge regarding a wide variety of topics, it is a waste of my eyesight to see even glance across your posts. They contain nothing even closely pertaining to any truths, and tend to be hatefilled, bigoted and discriminatory. I honestly am suprised you have no been banned from here by now for your comments.


...what have I said wrong? You wanted my opinion...I gave it to you. This thread is dedicated to the discussion of effect of gay parents on children...I am discussing it here. I am not following you around, I post many replies and this is one of the threads I post the replies in.

...what have I said wrong? You wanted my opinion...I gave it to you. This thread is dedicated to the discussion of effect of gay parents on children...I am discussing it here. I am not following you around, I post many replies and this is one of the threads I post the replies in.

There IS not affect on children with gay parents.


One of my friends of the family, who is gay in a relationship and has been for nearly 40 years, adopted at kid. Due to the laws at the time, the adoption agency did not know of his sexual orientation or relationship status. As far as they knew, he was a single white male who made a good living. The child (a boy, we'll call him "Jake") was just over 1 year old at the time of adoption. Today that same kid is now a 31 year old man who, like is father, became a well respected, good hearted man. He is one of my closest friends. However UNLIKE his parents, he is a STRAIGHT man, now married with a second child on the way. If you did not know he was from a same-sex family, you would never guess because you can't tell. I've known "Jake" for most of my life back to my childhood and can tell you first hand that his bringing up in a same-sex home had little, if no effect at all on his childhood or adulthood. He's always known that he was attracted to the opposite sex and has always been comfortable with the fact that he has two fathers. There's alot less confusion that one may think.

So for those of you that think that being raised in a same sex home can make a child gay or have issues later on in life, please explain this case.


And by the way, I had posted this a while ago and no one responded.

I'd think that a lesbian couple would make good parents, If they choose to adopt.

If its a boy, the Oedipal complex may not develop properly. If it's a girl, the Electra complex may not occur.
Either way, the children grow up with a more open mind than any other child has. Straight from childhood.

Provided of course, that the couple are decent individuals. Dad and Dad wouldn't work, because I believe that males are more likely to neglect children.

Dad and Dad wouldn't work, because I believe that males are more likely to neglect children.

Provided of course that the males are indecent individuals.

:runaway:

So for those of you that think that being raised in a same sex home can make a child gay or have issues later on in life, please explain this case.


Couldn't the child attempt to copy the parents behavior?

A question for you:

Do you want children?

If so, why?

Provided of course that the males are indecent individuals.

:runaway:

Point taken, But I still think that females are more suited to caring for children.

I am confused as to how a bi-sexual swinger can say proper family values has gone out the window. :confused:

I guess, she should know.

Point taken, But I still think that females are more suited to caring for children.


I think what you mean is that Islam is more tolerant of Lesbianism and so you find it easier to accept it yourself?

Point taken, But I still think that females are more suited to caring for children.

Some gay men are very caring and empathic, in fact, even more so than some women.

I think the main issue here that is difficult for all of us to grasp is the fact that children 'need' role models, because society dictates it. I would say that was truer a few decades ago, but since homosexuality has been legalised and rights afforded almost to the full extent of heterosexuality, it is obvious to me that we will see more and more homosexuality in society as time passes and this will eventually lead to a big question mark as to what actually constitutes role models.

In a perfect world, it is far better for children to grow up in a stable and loving family environment rather than a (temporary) foster home or orphanage, and I am sure that certain homosexuals (both male and female) are able to provide this; some people have lots of love to give.

The problem lies in the transitional period of full acceptance of alternative sexual lifestyles by society at large. It could take many decades before homosexuality is truly accepted as a norm and all stigma is lost and until that happens, any child growing up in a same sex household is bound to be made to feel somehow strange, both by their peers at school and in the neighbourhood thus creating emotional and psychological problems.

The question is, do we knowingly allow children to grow up in a loving caring homosexual environment and take the risk that they will be both emotionally and psychologically battered by others because of it during that time or, do we maintain the status quo and knowingly take the risk that the children will be emotionally and psychologically battered because of having to grow up without any real family at all?

I think that in a more enlightened future it will become far more acceptable for gays and lesbians to adopt, and I think that it would be the correct thing to do. However, in the present time any legislation that is pro gay adoption is bound to be highly controversial and could in fact be construed as merely a forced humanitarian experiment undertaken without the will of the child participant, and it would not be unreasonable to assume that the child, once it's grown up perhaps unhappily, could turn round and sue the government agency that chose its upbringing.

Challenger,
My husband takes just as good of care as our kids as I do. His Dad wasn't as good as his Mom, but that was because he didn't have to be. Men now days are more involved than the previous generations

If its a boy, the Oedipal complex may not develop properly. If it's a girl, the Electra complex may not occur.
Either way, the children grow up with a more open mind than any other child has. Straight from childhood.


Even if it did really exist the Oedipal complex is not supposed to be a good thing. Anyway, whatever strict Freudians are left (and they make up a pretty small percentage of psychologists in the US at least) would tell you that there is such a thing as transference and even if you don't have a father you will still find a father figure.

Point taken, But I still think that females are more suited to caring for children.

I don't think it has much to do with being able to care for children. I do as much caring for our daughter (feeding, changing diapers, taking for walks, etc.) as my wife and probably spend more time with her on average. As far as I can see, the roles of mother and father come into play in different ways--our daughter goes to her mother for comfort when she's not happy and generally wants me to entertain her or play when she is happy. I'm sure having breasts (what the object therapy people would call the primary object--i.e., the 1st thing the baby is attracted to) makes it easier to fill the comforter role since a young child is going to see that as comforting but I don't see any reason why 2 males couldn't fill those same roles especially for older children.

I guess, she should know.

ive already answered that question

Could you please define what "proper family values" would be for your household?
I think that this would help me understand why you feel the way that you do regarding your stance on homosexual adoptions.

Our household feels that integrity, communication, and respect are all very important. I stated earlier I believe that omissions are dishonest which would really strain the integrity and communication we have developed as well be extremely disrespectful to myself, my partner, and our child. These are some of the values we teach in my household, I think we probably have many similar family values but a difference in how they are utilized.

NO>

quote / For the last time, there is a difference between having sex with another CONSENTING ADULT and RAPING AN INNOCENT KID./quote


I never argued that point, I said, the chance for sexual inappropriateness is there, and is a greater chance with a homosexual then with a heterosexual male. I say this because in {my opinion} a man that assaults a boy in a sexual manner IS homosexual. Therefore the odds that a gay man rather then a straight man may molest a boy is very clear.

As for Deviant sexuality and homosexuality there are plenty of psychological texts on abnormal sexuality, feel free to formulate your own opinion. I promise you I will not CARE what your opinion is. I will debate with you but will not concede my opinion as right or wrong to anyone at anytime, nor should anyone else, there is no right or wrong. To ask that is insane :bugeye:

1. That's idiotic. By that logic hetero men shouldn't have daughters, because they might molest them.

2. When you cite some evidence that shows that being gay means a man is more likely to molest a child, I'll give your opinion some credit. Otherwise I just think you're talking manure.

Holy fuck..do people still believe in the Oedipal/Electra complex???!!!!!!

mom and dad only...or mom alone...or dad alone.

Everything else is wrong.

Please provide scientific evidence to support this radical claim. Otherwise, your comment is useless.

1. That's idiotic. By that logic hetero men shouldn't have daughters, because they might molest them.

2. When you cite some evidence that shows that being gay means a man is more likely to molest a child, I'll give your opinion some credit. Otherwise I just think you're talking manure.

Holy fuck..do people still believe in the Oedipal/Electra complex???!!!!!!

Go Visceral!!! :D

I think what you mean is that Islam is more tolerant of Lesbianism and so you find it easier to accept it yourself?

Not really, Could have something to do with the fact that I was mainly raised by my mother, with my father away on trips.

I don't think it has much to do with being able to care for children. I do as much caring for our daughter (feeding, changing diapers, taking for walks, etc.) as my wife and probably spend more time with her on average. As far as I can see, the roles of mother and father come into play in different ways--our daughter goes to her mother for comfort when she's not happy and generally wants me to entertain her or play when she is happy. I'm sure having breasts (what the object therapy people would call the primary object--i.e., the 1st thing the baby is attracted to) makes it easier to fill the comforter role since a young child is going to see that as comforting but I don't see any reason why 2 males couldn't fill those same roles especially for older children.

Right, So all one of the males has to do , Is be more comforting to play the mother figure and the other has to be more stern to be the father figure,
If thats all thats needed.. great.

...Is be more comforting to play the mother figure and the other has to be more stern to be the father figure,
If thats all thats needed.. great.

cripes. How stereotypical can you be?

Don't get me wrong but isn't the father supposed to be the authoriative figure ?

Don't get me wrong but isn't the father supposed to be the authoriative figure ?

LMAO!!!!:xctd:
Is that how it was in your family?

very few subjects totaly get my blood to boil.......this is one that is on the very top of the list.

Be a homosexual I dont care, whatever......do your thing in your own privacy and be discreet about it as you would expect any other couple......

however......adopting a easily influenced young child, who is going to have enough issues growing up in a normal heterosexual family is not very considerate to the child.......all just so you can play "house" and have your "family"

In no way is it fair to the kid. He is already an orphan will have to deal with those issues......toss in that his parents are homosexual.....which isnt very popular by the way......and that kid is going to have a very rough life.

Homosexuals may be lovey dovey etc etc.....but love only goes so far...

I do wonder though........considering the possible implications on the child being raised by a homosexual family........is it worth it for you to have your family?

if a kids a fashion accessory at least we know they will be dressed well,

very few subjects totaly get my blood to boil.......this is one that is on the very top of the list.

Be a homosexual I dont care, whatever......do your thing in your own privacy and be discreet about it as you would expect any other couple......

however......adopting a easily influenced young child, who is going to have enough issues growing up in a normal heterosexual family is not very considerate to the child.......all just so you can play "house" and have your "family"

In no way is it fair to the kid. He is already an orphan will have to deal with those issues......toss in that his parents are homosexual.....which isnt very popular by the way......and that kid is going to have a very rough life.

Homosexuals may be lovey dovey etc etc.....but love only goes so far...

I do wonder though........considering the possible implications on the child being raised by a homosexual family........is it worth it for you to have your family?

So, in this situation, you're left with two options. Discriminate against the homosexual couple, or try and change the stigma that's attached to homosexuality. I like the idea of doing the latter over the former.

Like madant said before, better a child has two homosexual parents rather than no parents at all.

lets put all the puffs in san fran sisco

In no way is it fair to the kid. He is already an orphan will have to deal with those issues......toss in that his parents are homosexual.....which isnt very popular by the way......and that kid is going to have a very rough life.

Do you base your opinion on personal knowledge?

The studies I have read do not come to the same conclusions...
i.e.
Stacey and Biblarz also found that the children of homosexual parents show no difference in levels of self-esteem, anxiety, depression, behavior problems, or social performance, but do show a higher level of affection, responsiveness, and concern for younger children and "seem to exhibit impressive psychological strength."

LMAO!!!!:xctd:
Is that how it was in your family?

Apparently, I know a couple of friends who hang around with their father more than their mother.. But in most people's families, thats usually the case.

Do you base your opinion on personal knowledge?

The studies I have read do not come to the same conclusions...
i.e.


and where do these studies come from?

I base my opinion on how I feel on the subject.......nothing more really. You could show me a study that kids raised by homosexuals turned out to be the best people on earth. Somehow it still doesnt seem right......

Somehow a kid without a home feels just as wrong......Im sure there is a heterosexual family out there somewhere who would raise an orphaned child.......

The homosexual phenomena is just so bass ackwards to me. I will never understand it no matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it. I am an exremely open minded person and can accept most anything......but homosexual adoption is just one I can't seem to get past.

To each his own is something I try to live by.......but when it involves the future (children) I get a bit more involved.......

Biting my tounge to keep the thread chill..........

and where do these studies come from?

I base my opinion on how I feel on the subject.......nothing more really. You could show me a study that kids raised by homosexuals turned out to be the best people on earth. Somehow it still doesnt seem right......

Somehow a kid without a home feels just as wrong......Im sure there is a heterosexual family out there somewhere who would raise an orphaned child.......

The homosexual phenomena is just so bass ackwards to me. I will never understand it no matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it. I am an exremely open minded person and can accept most anything......but homosexual adoption is just one I can't seem to get past.

To each his own is something I try to live by.......but when it involves the future (children) I get a bit more involved.......

Biting my tounge to keep the thread chill..........

Then you admit that your opinion is based on your own lack of knowledge/experience of homosexuals and what it would mean for a child to be raised by a same sex couple.
The point is that there are plenty of children waiting to be adopted, more than enough for all the homosexual couples that want to care for them. So why deny children the chance to live in a home with loving parents because of a simple prejudice towards gay people?

Me and my girlfriend are expecting our first child any day now, and if something happened that meant we could no longer take care of our child I would much rather our child was adopted by a gay couple than raised in an orphange or sent from one foster home to another until adulthood. I know people that grew up in children's homes, and their testimony is heart breaking.

and where do these studies come from?

I base my opinion on how I feel on the subject.......nothing more really. You could show me a study that kids raised by homosexuals turned out to be the best people on earth. Somehow it still doesnt seem right......

Somehow a kid without a home feels just as wrong......Im sure there is a heterosexual family out there somewhere who would raise an orphaned child.......

The homosexual phenomena is just so bass ackwards to me. I will never understand it no matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it. I am an exremely open minded person and can accept most anything......but homosexual adoption is just one I can't seem to get past.

To each his own is something I try to live by.......but when it involves the future (children) I get a bit more involved.......

Biting my tounge to keep the thread chill..........

So if you had the choice between giving an orphan homosexual parents and giving an orphan no parents, which would you choose?

Go Visceral!!! :D

Thanks :)

and where do these studies come from?

I base my opinion on how I feel on the subject.......nothing more really. You could show me a study that kids raised by homosexuals turned out to be the best people on earth. Somehow it still doesnt seem right......

Somehow a kid without a home feels just as wrong......Im sure there is a heterosexual family out there somewhere who would raise an orphaned child.......

The homosexual phenomena is just so bass ackwards to me. I will never understand it no matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it. I am an exremely open minded person and can accept most anything......but homosexual adoption is just one I can't seem to get past.

To each his own is something I try to live by.......but when it involves the future (children) I get a bit more involved.......

Biting my tounge to keep the thread chill..........

But you just admitted that your stance on homosexuality was based on feelings and not reason. How the hell do you feel that is okay?

and where do these studies come from?

Child Welfare League of America
Children's Voice Article, January 2002
Gay Adoption
by Kristen Kreisher

Here is a link to the article cited in the article:
(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?, pp. 159-183
Judith Stacey; Timothy J. Biblarz
http://www.jstor.org/view/00031224/d...3&config=jstor

I find it interesting that you would form a conclusion based on a feeling regardless of published research.

This is taken from an abstract:
"years of research have proven that orphanage children suffer personality disorders and underdeveloped cognitive and social skills (Ford & Kroll, 1995)."

www.gsm.uci.edu/~mckenzie/McCall.doc

This is an interesting site regarding foster care/adoption...

http://www.childrensrights.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Issues_Adopt

lets put all the puffs in san fran sisco

But, I like them too and I'm not willing to go all the way to Sf to get some. :(
http://www.taquitos.net/im/sn/Cheetos-Puffs.jpg.

Point taken, But I still think that females are more suited to caring for children.

very few subjects totaly get my blood to boil.......this is one that is on the very top of the list.

Be a homosexual I dont care, whatever......do your thing in your own privacy and be discreet about it as you would expect any other couple......

however......adopting a easily influenced young child, who is going to have enough issues growing up in a normal heterosexual family is not very considerate to the child.......all just so you can play "house" and have your "family"

In no way is it fair to the kid. He is already an orphan will have to deal with those issues......toss in that his parents are homosexual.....which isnt very popular by the way......and that kid is going to have a very rough life.

Homosexuals may be lovey dovey etc etc.....but love only goes so far...

I do wonder though........considering the possible implications on the child being raised by a homosexual family........is it worth it for you to have your family?

and where do these studies come from?

I base my opinion on how I feel on the subject.......nothing more really. You could show me a study that kids raised by homosexuals turned out to be the best people on earth. Somehow it still doesnt seem right......

Somehow a kid without a home feels just as wrong......Im sure there is a heterosexual family out there somewhere who would raise an orphaned child.......

The homosexual phenomena is just so bass ackwards to me. I will never understand it no matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it. I am an exremely open minded person and can accept most anything......but homosexual adoption is just one I can't seem to get past.

To each his own is something I try to live by.......but when it involves the future (children) I get a bit more involved.......

Biting my tounge to keep the thread chill..........


Will someone please answer this? I've posted this 2 times before with only one person responding.

One of my friends of the family, who is gay in a relationship and has been for nearly 40 years, adopted at kid. Due to the laws at the time, the adoption agency did not know of his sexual orientation or relationship status. As far as they knew, he was a single white male who made a good living. The child (a boy, we'll call him "Jake") was just over 1 year old at the time of adoption. Today that same kid is now a 31 year old man who, like is father, became a well respected, good hearted man. He is one of my closest friends. However UNLIKE his parents, he is a STRAIGHT man, now married with a second child on the way. If you did not know he was from a same-sex family, you would never guess because you can't tell. I've known "Jake" for most of my life back to my childhood and can tell you first hand that his bringing up in a same-sex home had little, if no effect at all on his childhood or adulthood. He's always known that he was attracted to the opposite sex and has always been comfortable with the fact that he has two fathers. There's alot less confusion that one may think.

So for those of you that think that being raised in a same sex home can make a child gay or have issues later on in life, please explain this case and the thousands of others like it.

I dare say some homosexual parents would be better parents than some heterosexuals. Just my cents worth.

Re: should men be boycotted http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=74070&highlight=boycotted

There was a thread on this forum on "whether men should be boycotted" by rather annonymous user Truenemo1889. I randomly read the thread though I thought I was in kindergarten again. First of all, are these people fucking crazy, what kind of world are they expecting without men? Yes, 99% of all the horrible things going on around the world is from men but 99% of all the plesantries are also sponsored, founded, or condoned by men. Plus there is no way a women can love more than a man, No fuckin way, a man is biologicaly and sociologicaly built to give. Women go through their lives switching boyfriends and companions back and forth while men roam most of their life in solitude or in pursuit of love from women. Almost everything about women has to be in or around them and their interest. There is no fuckin way you can learn how to love and the value of love like a man unless you are a man. A woman's love is more maternal, it goes through cycles, and there is always some expectation. Men are fucked up, don't get me wrong, but a good man has his uses.

But you just admitted that your stance on homosexuality was based on feelings and not reason. How the hell do you feel that is okay?

I didn't really say it was ok.......just mostly I have a firm belife on the subject and it will not change, I've tried to warp my mind around it but it just wont happen.

Research is a horrible excuse to judge your morals by..........honestly


If research suggested that offing 90% of the human population would solve global warming, resource deficiencies, save the human race and planet earth.......would you go off 90% of the world population?

Something about doing that just doesnt FEEL right......regardless of what the hell research says.

So if you had the choice between giving an orphan homosexual parents and giving an orphan no parents, which would you choose?

I would give the child to a loving heterosexual family......they exist ya know.

research stats are missing morality

so are all the homosexuals

Homosexuals have more morality wanting to be parents, than some of the ignorant straight couples who ignore their children altogether.

Draq... please... think about what you are saying, before you say it.

research stats are missing morality

so are all the homosexuals

Its always nice that you have something to say Draqon, but why dont you try saying something that isnt blatantly insulting to members of this site? I doubt you have ever even known any homosexuals.

Research is a horrible excuse to judge your morals by..........honestly

I do not use research to define my behaviour or base my ethics, I use them along with my personal knowledge to make informed opinions.

If research suggested that offing 90% of the human population would solve global wa