This thread is to ask a question, to men, but also to feminist or independent "fighter" women who don't want to be protected by men.


Is it ever okay for a man to cry in public, or is it a sissy/bitch move? I think most men believe it is aganist the rules of manhood, however lately a lot of women, usually the independent feminist thinking women, are often the same women who want men to show weakess in public. Is it part of a conspiracy? Do you really want to be rescued by someone who can't stop crying long enough to do the job?

What say you?

Why is the man crying?

So you are saying the context matters? and that it is not a general rule?

Under which situations are crying acceptable?

So you are saying the context matters? and that it is not a general rule?

Under which situations are crying acceptable?

Well if he's crying because he just realised his socks don't match, there is something wrong.

However, if he's crying for a genuine reason such as grief, happiness, shock or frustration, well it's perfectly understandable. I don't see why men should not have the same freedom to express their emotions as women do.

pointless thread, useless discussion, and unscientific.

Why cato, did you once cry cos your socks did not match?

shhhh! you are not supposed to let them know the thread is not really closed! ;)

thread closed
http://sciforums.com/images/statusicon/thread_lock.gif

Under which situations are crying acceptable?
Assuming this is the "sad" type of crying, if he gets shot in the nuts or just saw a loved one killed right in front of them.

This thread is to ask a question, to men, but also to feminist or independent "fighter" women who don't want to be protected by men.


Is it ever okay for a man to cry in public, or is it a sissy/bitch move? I think most men believe it is aganist the rules of manhood, however lately a lot of women, usually the independent feminist thinking women, are often the same women who want men to show weakess in public. Is it part of a conspiracy? Do you really want to be rescued by someone who can't stop crying long enough to do the job?

What say you?
No, it's not ok for anyone(man or woman) to cry in public. Really, anything that you could cry over isn't anyone else's bussiness. So, all you're doing is wasting people's time. But is it ok for men to cry? Yes.

This thread is to ask a question, to men, but also to feminist or independent "fighter" women who don't want to be protected by men.


Is it ever okay for a man to cry in public, or is it a sissy/bitch move? I think most men believe it is aganist the rules of manhood, however lately a lot of women, usually the independent feminist thinking women, are often the same women who want men to show weakess in public. Is it part of a conspiracy? Do you really want to be rescued by someone who can't stop crying long enough to do the job?

What say you?I tear up in public every time I listen to people talk…..but my tears are of a different sort.

Is there some ethical law against males crying? No.'

The only time I have cried in the open was after about 12-15 shots of vodka. I don't even know why.. it was probably stupid.

There's a threshold for everything. There are men crying in the photos of entire families killed by suicide bombers of air attacks in the Mideast. I don't think anyone would call them sissies. At some point you have to say that if a person can experience something and not cry, then there's something wrong with him.

If we live in countries where stuff like that never happens, we should consider ourselves blessed. Yet children die every day from illnesses and in accidents. I hope their fathers are crying. It's dangerous to bottle up that much grief.

Some of you look to me as your elder, so I guess I should say that I have cried in public a number of times and nobody thought I was being a sissy.

Well if he's crying because he just realised his socks don't match, there is something wrong.

This reminds me of an old comedy show.. Attack of the 50 foot woman, I believe it was. One of the skits was about Nancy Kerrigan getting beat on the leg with a screwdriver. They played it like she was a big crybaby. She got an eyelash in her eye and started to bawl. But what was really funny was when she was at the doctor's office and her parents were asking, "Doctor. Will she ever be able to skate again?" The doctor replied, "She can skate [i]now[i], it's just a bruise." Nancy started crying, "Why me???? Oh, why????"

As to the thread topic.

No. It's never ok for men to cry in public. Unless his favorite prostitute has been murdered by his least favorite serial killer. Then it's acceptable for a limited time only.

Other than that?
No.
No tears for you!

According to the rules of manhood, that all men know. It's not ever acceptable to cry in public. It's acceptable to cry, as we all have done it, but it's against all rules to show weakness in public.

Do you expect someone who loses their entire family to cry? Hell yes. Do people in this country lose their entire families like in the middle east? Yes, look at the faces of the victims of hurricane Katrina. Does this mean it's good to cry in public? My opniion is no.

Everyone will cry at least once during a funeral, or over a death of a parent. Very few people however will do it in front of their peers. Men will go to a walk and cry. Men will cry late at night or early in the morning when they can't sleep. Men will cry while trying to shave or in the shower. It's simply against the laws of Manhood to show weakness in public and I wanted to get the perspective of the average man.

I was not asking if it's okay for men to cry or not, I was asking if it's okay to do it in public, to let other people know how you feel, to give a public display of weakness. If people cry on TV over the terrorist attacks, doesnt this fuel the terrorists? If you get bullied and you cry, doesnt this fuel the bully?

Do you expect someone who loses their entire family to cry? Hell yes. Do people in this country lose their entire families like in the middle east? Yes, look at the faces of the victims of hurricane Katrina. Does this mean it's good to cry in public? My opniion is no.

Everyone will cry at least once during a funeral, or over a death of a parent. Very few people however will do it in front of their peers. Men will go to a walk and cry. Men will cry late at night or early in the morning when they can't sleep. Men will cry while trying to shave or in the shower. It's simply against the laws of Manhood to show weakness in public and I wanted to get the perspective of the average man.

I was not asking if it's okay for men to cry or not, I was asking if it's okay to do it in public, to let other people know how you feel, to give a public display of weakness. If people cry on TV over the terrorist attacks, doesnt this fuel the terrorists? If you get bullied and you cry, doesnt this fuel the bully?
Exactly. But I don't really think that women should cry in public either.

The only times I've cried as a grownup in public and not in public has been when I've been crying from happiness. I can't and don't want to restrain myself in such moments.
That mostly has been in concerts and similar occasions where the music or the show just takes me away.
Is it ok or not I don't know and don't care about.

According to the rules of manhood, that all men know. It's not ever acceptable to cry in public. It's acceptable to cry, as we all have done it, but it's against all rules to show weakness in public.



Who wrote these Laws of Manhood? Does he/she/it have a name? Were they handed down by Jehovah on a stone platter, like the Ten Commandments? Are these stone tablets preserved in a temple somewhere?

I've heard many rumors, but I've yet to actually see where they are written down, and by whose authority.

Perhaps you have these answers?

to let other people know how you feel, to give a public display of weakness.
How do equate letting people know how you feel with weakness?

Oli, it's weakness because no one really cares how anyone else feels generally. The only people who really care, your mother, maybe your best friend, but the majority of the people on planet earth don't care about you or how you feel. The world is cold and ruthless, and only a select group of people care about strangers, the majority either does not care, or hates you. The goal for you, is to find/meet the select few who care about you.

It's a jungle, if you show weakness you get attacked. Look at prison, the rules of prison mirror the rules of the outside world. In prison if you cry, you get labeled a "bitch" and you lose respect points. Crying is consider a show of weakness, and weakness is hated by the majority. Look at everyone on earth that is treated like crap, and then notice they all have some sorta weakness to attract that treatment.

If you want to know the laws of manhood, ask a man. If you don't have a man to ask, observe the rules of the street and the rules of prison.

1. Don't be a snitch

2. Keep your word

3. Don't cry or show weakness

4. Maintain a good yet strong image.


These are just 4, there are hundreds of rules for all sorts of possible situations, such as how to go through a divorce, how to be a good father, how to be responsible, how to deal with women, the rules of dating, all that stuff that your father told you, and his father told him.

How do equate letting people know how you feel with weakness?

Maybe he's referring to these Rules of Manhood that we're supposed to be adhering to?

Though who wrote them is anyone's guess, really.

Giambattista, you aren't a woman, you know what rules I'm talking about.

It's a jungle, if you show weakness you get attacked.
So how many people do you attack on a daily basis for showing weakness? Personally I don't. But maybe I'm not manly enough? Or then again maybe I'm secure enough in myself that I don't particularly care to pick on the weak/ emotional...
In prison if you cry, you get labeled a "bitch" and you lose respect points.
Like I care about the opinion of people so stupid to label me a "bitch" because I get upset and let it show. Bwahaha. I'm more "manly" than that.

In prison if you cry, you get labeled a "bitch" and you lose respect points. Crying is consider a show of weakness, and weakness is hated by the majority. Look at everyone on earth that is treated like crap, and then notice they all have some sorta weakness to attract that treatment.



Who makes up the majority of the prison population, and why should I care about what they think?

Giambattista, you aren't a woman, you know what rules I'm talking about.

Why should I care, at all?

BUURP! WHA@#$)(*#$)*#)$%(*#)$%(*#)$(%*#)(%*#)($%*#)(%*#)( %*#)(%*#)(%*#)(%*#)(%*#)(%*#()%*#)(%*#)(%*#()%*#)( %*#()%*#)$(%*#)$(%*#)(%*#)(%*#)($%*#)($%*#(%*#(*%# )($%*#)($%*#)($*%#*(%#(%*#()%*#)(%*)#(%)#(*%)#(*%# )($%*#)(%*#()%*#)%*#%*"#%**%#$"%)!

AH! PLeasantreeez.

So how many people do you attack on a daily basis for showing weakness? Personally I don't. But maybe I'm not manly enough? Or then again maybe I'm secure enough in myself that I don't particularly care to pick on the weak/ emotional...

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about them. You know who they are, you faced them in school, your boss might be one of them.

Some people are sadists, bullies, jerks, or whatever label you wish to call them, and this type of human, or species of human, specializes in attacking and preying on the weak, these are predator types. They will beat their wife, they will rape kids, they will beat on anyone or anything which seems vulnerable and weak. You see them mostly in prison, but they are outside of prison as well.

You're assuming it takes time right? WITHOUT evidence!!!
Met them. An insignificant minority who aren't worth spending thought processes on, let alone letting them dictate how I conduct my life.
Some people are sadists, bullies, jerks, or whatever label you wish to call them, and this type of human, or species of human, specializes in attacking and preying on the weak, predator types. They will beat their wife, they will rape kids, they will beat on anyone or anything which seems vulnerable and weak. You see them mostly in prison, but they are outside of prison as well.
That's a short step away from paranoia...

Like I care about the opinion of people so stupid to label me a "bitch" because I get upset and let it show. Bwahaha. I'm more "manly" than that.

Labels are used by predators to tag their prey. If you get labeled "bitch", it means you arent a man anymore, you are someones property, and they view women in the same way.

Labels also apply when people call you "nigger" or other racial slurs, as this is a tag so predators can attack you. You might not agree with this type of thinking, but this is how a lot of people think. You have to accept it and adapt.

I'm not a predator, I'm just giving you friendly advice, you seem like a decent guy, just don't go crying in public, it will give certain types of guy the wrong impression, and it's not really attractive to ladies either. Ladies universally say they like or want weak guys, but they like weak guys so they can more easily manipulate them emotionally. Do not ever let a woman know she has made you cry.

Oh is that a "scientifically inclined open mind" seeking evidence I hear?
Evidence? For what? That some people don't relate to others no matter how much you try to find common ground? Someone who thinks that because you're not "one of them" they have the right to pound you into the ground?
Labels also apply when people call you "nigger" or other racial slurs, as this is a tag so predators can attack you. You might not agree with this type of thinking, but this is how a lot of people think. You have to accept it and adapt.
I'm not a predator, I'm just giving you friendly advice, you seem like a decent guy, just don't go crying in public, it will give certain types of guy the wrong impression, and it's not really attractive to ladies either. Ladies universally say they like or want weak guys, but they like weak guys so they can more easily manipulate them emotionally. Do not ever let a woman know she has made you cry.
I've been labelled all my life (50 years). It doesn't really bother me. If a guy "gets the wrong impression" because I cry then that's his look out for not thinking it through or asking. If a woman makes me cry then she makes me cry. Crying is not a weakness as several women have found when they have tried manipulating me.

That's a short step away from paranoia...

Welcome to the real world, welcome to the planet of the apes. It's not paranoia, it's just wisdom speaking. Usually a wise person sounds paranoid to a naive young boy. Listen to your grand parents.

I've been labelled all my life (50 years). It doesn't really bother me. If a guy "gets the wrong impression" because I cry then that's his look out for not thinking it through or asking. If a woman makes me cry then she makes me cry. Crying is not a weakness as several women have found when they have tried manipulating me.

The reason those several tried to manipulate you in the first place is because you are a magnet for manipulation. The reason people try to bully you is because you seem vulnerable. You are too attractive to sadists. Don't act so submissive.

Usually a wise person sounds paranoid to a naive young boy. Listen to your grand parents.Wow. At fifty I'm being called a naive young boy. Keep up the flattery...

Oli, it's not the physical age that matters. You are physically 50, but by age 50 you should be a hardened expert in predator relief. You should know how to deal with predators in all sorts of situations, you should know how to spot them, and you should be teaching these lessons to the younger generation of guys who have adopted the traditional rules of manhood that you disagree with.

If you know how to be a man while crying in public, and can defend yourself from this position, use your wisdom and age and show us how, tell us a few stories.

The reason those several tried to manipulate you in the first place is because you are a magnet for manipulation. The reason people try to bully you is because you seem vulnerable. You are too attractive to sadists. Don't act so submissive.

Oh, Buddha1! You almost had me there! :p

Oli, it's not the physical age that matters. You are physically 50, but by age 50 you should be a hardened expert in predator relief. You should know how to deal with predators in all sorts of situations, you should know how to spot them, and you should be teaching these lessons to the younger generation of guys who have adopted the traditional rules of manhood that you disagree with.

If you know how to be a man while crying in public, and can defend yourself from this position, use your wisdom and age and show us how, tell us a few stories.

I think a hardened man would not give a flying F*** about what others though of his crying in public. Isn't that what a real man would do?

This has been just a great laugh, but I really must be going, because I have some semi-important things to accomplish.

TA!

Hardened simply means capable of defending oneself against predators. Sometimes you can ignore them, but sometimes you arent given the option to ignore.

You are physically 50, but by age 50 you should be a hardened expert in predator relief.
Hardened? Not a chance - I avoid hardening like the plague.
You should know how to deal with predators in all sorts of situations,
Yup
you should know how to spot them
Not really because they avoid me...
and you should be teaching these lessons to the younger generation of guys who have adopted the traditional rules of manhood that you disagree with.
I do, to those that will listen. And a good few do.
use your wisdom and age and show us how, tell us a few stories
I've got to push off to see my dad in hospital, but if the thread's still running next time I get on-line then I'll impart some of my "wisdom" (although it's just self-evident stuff to me...)

How exactly, can you use the power of softness to defend yourself? I'd need to proof that it's possible because I've never seen it in reality.

I'll wait for your reply.

The reason those several tried to manipulate you in the first place is because you are a magnet for manipulation.
Not a magnet, some people try manipulation as a matter of course and learn it doesn't always work...
The reason people try to bully you is because you seem vulnerable
Bully me? No, I just get labelled because I don't fit preconceptions.
You are too attractive to sadists. Don't act so submissive.
Submissive? Not a chance. Dismissive more likely.

Submissive? Not a chance. Dismissive more likely.

Don't mind me, but this line should be the last ispeken.

Well if he's crying because he just realised his socks don't match, there is something wrong.

However, if he's crying for a genuine reason such as grief, happiness, shock or frustration, well it's perfectly understandable. I don't see why men should not have the same freedom to express their emotions as women do.

LOL!! :D
The only time I've ever cried in recent memory is when my cat died. I didn't want to cry (not sure why), but it was too much and I broke down. :(

Why wouldn't you want to cry when a beloved feline dies??? Really??? Cats are a mainstay, a bulwark in this forsaken world. And dogs are overrated.

Cats: great creatures. Whimsical, independent, great.

Why be ashamed of crying for a cat?

Why wouldn't you want to cry when a beloved feline dies??? Really??? Cats are a mainstay, a bulwark in this forsaken world. And dogs are overrated.

Cats: great creatures. Whimsical, independent, great.

Why be ashamed of crying for a cat?

Absolutely. I've had several cats over the last 20 years, in fact my oldest cat is 18. I would be devastated if anything happened to her.

Why wouldn't you want to cry when a beloved feline dies??? Really??? Cats are a mainstay, a bulwark in this forsaken world. And dogs are overrated.

Cats: great creatures. Whimsical, independent, great.

Why be ashamed of crying for a cat?
Excuse me, but dogs are just as worthy of a tear as are cats. Dogs have been our companions and allies far longer than cats. I think. When was the common house cat partially domesticated (as no cat is really fully domesticated the way dogs are)? When was the last time you heard of the faithful cat rescuing his/her master? Um... never?

Excuse me, but dogs are just as worthy of a tear as are cats. Dogs have been our companions and allies far longer than cats. I think. When was the common house cat partially domesticated (as no cat is really fully domesticated the way dogs are)? When was the last time you heard of the faithful cat rescuing his/her master? Um... never?

It's hard to respect someone who hangs on to your every word and never has an opinion of his own.

It's hard to respect someone who hangs on to your every word and never has an opinion of his own.
Never owned a dog I see. You're missing out on a wealth of complex behavior that a cat could never hope to match.

Owned two, in fact.

Owned two, in fact.
Keep em' in a box or something?

Also goats, mice, a tortoise, hens, roosters.

Even roosters are more opinionated than dogs. My grandmother had one for 15 years. Really arrogant.

Also goats, mice, a tortoise, hens, roosters.

Even roosters are more opinionated than dogs. I had one for 15 years. Really arrogant.
Ok. You already know I have sheep, a goat, two cats, two dogs, a bird, and an angora rabbit. Also owned guinea pigs, a snake, the odd trutle or two, and gerbils.

You're talking about simple creatures here. Cats only appear opinionated. It pure aloofness. Cats are aloof because they evolved to be solitary. The don't need and don't have manners or a complex repertoire of social behaviors. Dogs on the other hand have actual opinions on things. Like tolerance for one cat more than the other, play styles, when to try for a dominance ploy over the other dog (even over the smaller members of our human family), opinions on which toys are worthy of attantion, etc... I could go on. The cats are monotonic in this regard. Utterly aloof, shallow, and limited in behavior.

I think we need a thread for this. I'll start one over in Biology and Genetics. Could be interesting.

Ok. You already know I have sheep, a goat, two cats, two dogs, a bird, and an angora rabbit. Also owned guinea pigs, a snake, the odd trutle or two, and gerbils.

You're talking about simple creatures here. Cats only appear opinionated. It pure aloofness. Cats are aloof because they evolved to be solitary. The don't need and don't have manners or a complex repertoire of social behaviors. Dogs on the other hand have actual opinions on things. Like tolerance for one cat more than the other, play styles, when to try for a dominance ploy over the other dog (even over the smaller members of our human family), opinions on which toys are worthy of attantion, etc... I could go on. The cats are monotonic in this regard. Utterly aloof, shallow, and limited in behavior.

Appear opinionated? I must have had more than 10 cats over the last 25 years (about 4 right now, not counting the ones who visit). I've had cats throwing temper tantrums, refusing to eat for days because of an implied slight, cats who fight for attention and are incredibly possessive, cats bringing me weird gifts, cats having babies on my legs when I'm sleeping. Babe, you cannot teach me anything about cats. Believe me when I say, they will accept or reject you only on their own terms and they do not change their minds about who they like or dislike, not easily. And it has no correlation to whether you are the one feeding them or not. If they like you, it's for some deep seated cat reason which you cannot fathom. Of course, they know which side their bread is buttered, but that is totally separate from who they like.

Appear opinionated? I must have had more than 10 cats over the last 25 years (about 4 right now, not counting the ones who visit). I've had cats throwing temper tantrums, refusing to eat for days because of an implied slight, cats who fight for attention and are incredibly possessive, cats bringing me weird gifts, cats having babies on my legs when I'm sleeping. Babe, you cannot teach me anything about cats. Believe me when I say, they will accept or reject you only on their own terms and they do not change their minds about who they like or dislike, not easily. And it has no correlation to whether you are the one feeding them or not. If they like you, it's for some deep seated cat reason which you cannot fathom. Of course, they know which side their bread is buttered, but that is totally separate from who they like.
Oh boy. Go over to the new thread. We'll fight there :D .

Excuse me, but dogs are just as worthy of a tear as are cats. Dogs have been our companions and allies far longer than cats. I think. When was the common house cat partially domesticated (as no cat is really fully domesticated the way dogs are)? When was the last time you heard of the faithful cat rescuing his/her master? Um... never?

Of course they are just as worthy, so is any other pet, dog rabbit, hamster, rat, gerbil, etc.
I think cats were domesticated in ancient Egypt, which would put them far earlier than domestic dogs.

Of course they are just as worthy, so is any other pet, dog rabbit, hamster, rat, gerbil, etc.
I think cats were domesticated in ancient Egypt, which would put them far earlier than domestic dogs.
Don't you mean later? As in dogs being domesticated some 12,000+ years ago?

Excuse me, but dogs are just as worthy of a tear as are cats.
No they're not.

No they're not.
Oh brother. Join the fight in the other thread.

Appear opinionated? I must have had more than 10 cats over the last 25 years (about 4 right now, not counting the ones who visit). I've had cats throwing temper tantrums, refusing to eat for days because of an implied slight, cats who fight for attention and are incredibly possessive, cats bringing me weird gifts, cats having babies on my legs when I'm sleeping. Babe, you cannot teach me anything about cats. Believe me when I say, they will accept or reject you only on their own terms and they do not change their minds about who they like or dislike, not easily. And it has no correlation to whether you are the one feeding them or not. If they like you, it's for some deep seated cat reason which you cannot fathom. Of course, they know which side their bread is buttered, but that is totally separate from who they like.

Boy have you gotten this right. I have had cats for just as long, but far more of them. Also had dog for that long. Dogs universally love the owner/master/alpha, some very rare exception exist of course. Cats choose who they like, much like humans do. Oddly I have found that when i own a dog and a cat together they get along quite well. Probably becuase the dog knows the cat is part of the pack and the cat knows I am not gonna get rid of a dog so they might as well play nice.

Overall though I have cried at each pets death, also at the end of Armageddon but then again if you aren't drying there you need to go to the psychologist.

Excuse me, but dogs are just as worthy of a tear as are cats. Dogs have been our companions and allies far longer than cats. I think. When was the common house cat partially domesticated (as no cat is really fully domesticated the way dogs are)?

Oh, domestication. What exactly does that mean, anyway? How does one define it? Is that where dogs follow the person holding food, entranced and drooling all the way? :p


When was the last time you heard of the faithful cat rescuing his/her master? Um... never?

Cat attacks burglar:
http://www.laceyville.com/Aggie/Miracle_Pets.htm

I've seen that show every once in awhile on Animal Planet. One segment had a cat who, if I remember correctly, pestered a mother non-stop until she followed him up the stairs to the baby's room. The baby had a fever, and was immediately taken to a clinic or hospital. The cat knew something was wrong.

Another one involved a woman who was hypoglycemic and the cat would warn her before she was even aware that she was about to have an episode.

Since I've only seen the show a few times, I've probably missed some examples of life-saving feline behavior, but nonetheless, they do exist. And who's to say that just being a companion isn't in itself a lifesaver?

No they're not.

Sure they are. All animals have their own merits. Unless we're talking about snakes. Never really liked them. :eek:

It's hard to respect someone who hangs on to your every word and never has an opinion of his own.

Dog's have opinions, if you are a mean master you get bitten, and they don't rescue everyone, only their favorites.

Cat's don't do much anything but leech off humans. The time we spend on cats could be spent helping children in Africa in my opinion.

Also goats, mice, a tortoise, hens, roosters.

Even roosters are more opinionated than dogs. My grandmother had one for 15 years. Really arrogant.

Opinionated does not mean intelligent. Cat's are too independent to be friends with, you can only lock them in a cage to control them, while dogs you can communicate with. I don't see how anyone can have a pet tiger running around and playing with them for example. Cat's arent companions, they are children, and if you want a child why not adopt?

I do not understand why people want to take care of cats, but cannot take care of homeless children of the third world. Why don't you adopt a child?

[QUOTE=TimeTraveler]Dog's have opinions, if you are a mean master you get bitten, and they don't rescue everyone, only their favorites.[quote]

Maybe it's just defense?

I do not understand why people want to take care of cats, but cannot take care of homeless children of the third world. Why don't you adopt a child?

i have a cat. i've always had cats. i find i canNOT stand the way dogs fawn all over you. that and the drooling doggy breath. *shudder!*
cats are independent and some people like that. that is also the prime reason they are not like children. true, you can't control them, but why would you want to?
personally, i like an animal i can pet when i need some company but won't mind when i decide to get up and walk away.

:D

If I ever cry in public, it's because my leg is crushed under a 3 ton bus, my testicles are punctured by toothpicks, and my arms are pulled out of their sockets. I would definitely cry in public over that
;p

sam was right when she posted earlier. she wanted to know what you would be crying about. that's the point. even women don't cry for no reason. it all depends on the severity of the cause. if a man cries at a sad movie, i would find it understandable. now if he's still crying after we get home and talk about it, that's a sissy.

HaS...
my husband says you're a sissy but i think he's just kidding. :p

:D

i have a cat. i've always had cats. i find i canNOT stand the way dogs fawn all over you. that and the drooling doggy breath. *shudder!*
cats are independent and some people like that. that is also the prime reason they are not like children. true, you can't control them, but why would you want to?
personally, i like an animal i can pet when i need some company but won't mind when i decide to get up and walk away.

:D

Darlin' please add your two cents to the Cats vs Dogs thread. :D

Opinionated does not mean intelligent. Cat's are too independent to be friends with, you can only lock them in a cage to control them, while dogs you can communicate with. I don't see how anyone can have a pet tiger running around and playing with them for example. Cat's arent companions, they are children, and if you want a child why not adopt?

I do not understand why people want to take care of cats, but cannot take care of homeless children of the third world. Why don't you adopt a child?

You have obviously never been owned by a cat. :D

Dog's have opinions, if you are a mean master you get bitten, and they don't rescue everyone, only their favorites.

Cat's don't do much anything but leech off humans. The time we spend on cats could be spent helping children in Africa in my opinion.

False on all accounts.

Experiments have shown that dogs will take a great deal of abuse and still come back to their master; cats will dump a cruel master faster than hot potatoes.

And cats brought up with love can be as faithful as dogs.
Go through the links I posted in the cats and dogs thread.

The children from Africa would be better helped by abolishing some of the "fair trade" practices imposed on their countries by the countries that give them "aid". And providing a self sustaining economy instead. Please buy some products made in Africa as part of your contribution.

False on all accounts.

Experiments have shown that dogs will take a great deal of abuse and still come back to their master; cats will dump a cruel master faster than hot potatoes.

And cats brought up with love can be as faithful as dogs.
Go through the links I posted in the cats and dogs thread.

The children from Africa would be better helped by abolishing some of the "fair trade" practices imposed on their countries by the countries that give them "aid". And providing a self sustaining economy instead. Please buy some products made in Africa as part of your contribution.

Show me a URL instead. In my experiences with dogs, I've seen owners get their ass bit by the dog after abusing it. Dog's are loyal, so I prefer Dogs as friends. Friends are loyal or they arent friends. Cat's are vampires and their only utility is to catch mice.

I've never really seen a loyal cat, yes cats can be good animals, good pets, but they arent capable of friendship because they don't protect their master, they don't love as much as dogs do. Love is protection, if you love something you protect it, or you don't actually love it you simply lust for it.

I'm with you on trading with Africa. I'd love to buy African products and I'm waiting for the chance to do so, but the free trade system, the way it works, it's just not designed to be "fair", it's based on politics, favors, personal relationships, and all of that. The agenda simply does not include Africa, so adopting African children might be the best option.

When you have children of your own, if you don't already, consider adopting a child from a third world country. If you have a child, you'd give the child a brother or sister who looks different, and in the end it could be a good experience. I'm not saying it will solve the problems of the world but it's better than doing nothing.

You have obviously never been owned by a cat. :D

Why do you like cats so much? I like animals, but I require loyalty. Loyalty is how you know how much someone or something loves you, the more disloyal it is, the less trust you have, and the less of bond you have.

False on all accounts.

Experiments have shown that dogs will take a great deal of abuse and still come back to their master; cats will dump a cruel master faster than hot potatoes.

And cats brought up with love can be as faithful as dogs.
Go through the links I posted in the cats and dogs thread.

The children from Africa would be better helped by abolishing some of the "fair trade" practices imposed on their countries by the countries that give them "aid". And providing a self sustaining economy instead. Please buy some products made in Africa as part of your contribution.

samcdkey hi

I have owned a dog and 3 cats in my lifetime.

We helped a stray kitten that was under my car in the parking lot years ago, meowing over and over. The kitten turned out to be female and then had babies, which made me take care of 4 more kittens. She had the babies in my backyard and I just can't leave them out there to rain or whatever, so I brought them in to take care of them. Once they were old enough (I had to read a lot about cats), I gave 2 kittens away to relatives but had to keep the other 2. The mother has passed away since, but the 2 kittens are adults now. They were born on June 10, 2005. In my experience with cats, just like all animals, they have different personalities.

For instance, the 2 kittens, one of them is white (female) and the other is black (male).
I named the black one 'Delta' because he was the fourth and the white one, 'Saddie' because for the first few months, when she was a small kitten, whenever she looked around she looked like she was depressed. Haha. All the time, her eyes were big and looked like she was sad about something, it was cute ;p

Anyway, the black one is loving to me, loves to be around me always. Always tries to get on top of me when they are in the house. The white one however, doesn't have a care in the world. She will never come to me or anyone else unless it's time for food. Then she will come and be affectionate and seek you out. The mother was the same way.
I love animals, but I don't want cats.

As for dogs, I'm a fan. I love dogs.

I like animals, but I require loyalty. Loyalty is how you know how much someone or something loves you, the more disloyal it is, the less trust you have, and the less of bond you have.

are you sure you aren't confusing loyalty with abject adoration? there is a difference.
there are tales of cats waking their masters in the night and saving them from CO poisioning. tales of cats traveling across entire countries to be reunited with their owned (anyone who loves cats will get that one ;) ). dogs, as pack animals, are more inclined to be subservient to their masters who are really the alpha dogs. cats, as solitary animals, really only fight for life and when they have to.
my husband owned a cat he saved from a junkyard. this animal leaped on his leg one day and he thought the cat had gone insane. but when the cat stopped tumbling and seeming to fight and invisible enemy, a brown recluse spider - dead - was hanging out of its mouth. those things are poisonous to the point of disfigurement.
that sounds like loyalty to me.

:D

are you sure you aren't confusing loyalty with abject adoration? there is a difference.
there are tales of cats waking their masters in the night and saving them from CO poisioning. tales of cats traveling across entire countries to be reunited with their owned (anyone who loves cats will get that one ;) ). dogs, as pack animals, are more inclined to be subservient to their masters who are really the alpha dogs. cats, as solitary animals, really only fight for life and when they have to.
my husband owned a cat he saved from a junkyard. this animal leaped on his leg one day and he thought the cat had gone insane. but when the cat stopped tumbling and seeming to fight and invisible enemy, a brown recluse spider - dead - was hanging out of its mouth. those things are poisonous to the point of disfigurement.
that sounds like loyalty to me.

:D


I'm not saying that all cats are disloyal. I'm saying that the majority of cats I've had experience with were. So I'm not interested in having cats as a pet. In truth, the majority of humans I've had experience with are disloyal also and I would rather not be friends with the majority of humans. I hope you see my point, I 'm not a cat person.

I'm a pack animal.

I had a good relationship with my cat. He and I got along very well, were very close, but we had sadomasochistic exchanges. He'd bite me, I'd hit him, then he'd bite me again, then I'd hit him again, then one of us would give up, he'd walk away, and then a few hours later, we'd begin it again.

He was a good cat.

But as to men crying:

No. It is not permitted to cry in public. It is unmanly to show such emotion. Even in disaster, a man should keep his head. However, in certain cultural contexts, public display of manic grief is acceptable - Mongols would run around their fallen leader mutilating themselves with knives, Jews cry hysterically when a religious leader dies in their community, et cetera, et cetera - and in private or semi-private situations, one can experience sympathetic crying when met with military or generalized heroic sacrifice (few would call a man a sissy for shedding a tear at the "Tomb of the Unknown Soldier" or other such things) or perhaps a contained sensation of grief at a funeral, specifically when a particularly moving thing occurs. But the display must be limited (the eyes ought to be covered if possible) and it ought to be done as privately as possible. It should not be done to excess, either. If a true outpouring of grief is necessary, it ought to be done in extreme isolation.

Exactly. But I don't really think that women should cry in public either.
Women cry at the drop of a hat. They use is, consciously or unconsciously, as a tool to garner sympathy. It's generally quite effective.

Men can not use crying in this manner. It generates disgust and distain rather than sympathy when a man cries over some trivial thing.

Of course, men can and do cry in extreem circumstances such as the death of a family member. But only in situations where no action is required or possible.

I'm a pack animal.

i totally understand. you see, i'm NOT a pack animal. i suppose your own tendencies dictate what type of animal you like to have. like i said, i prefer animals that will leave me alone when i want to be left alone and cats will do that.

men crying...
i have to say i would rather die than cry in public but there are times - for others - when it just can't be helped. i suppose this should apply to men too.

i sometimes I have a cry when i have had toooo much to drink..i never remember why....my friends just buy me another drink and apprantly i get over it...
as for men....sometimes they might just need to get it out in public. i guess it's ok with me as long as it's for a good reason. men have feeling too...right???

of course they do.
that's why they heartlessly convince you that you're the sun in their universe only to turn around and bang your best friend and actually think you're stupid enough to BELIEVE IT WHEN THEY INSIST THAT IT WAS ONLY A MISUNDERSTANDING ALL THEY WERE ACTUALLY DOING WAS PERFORMING A NEW FORM OF CPR BECAUSE SHE'D ACCIDENTALLY SWALLOWED HIS ZIPPER!!!

...but, yes, men have feelings i suppose...

:D

did i touch on a tough subject Nubs??
i've never been cheated on. i have cheated on someone once however and will never ever cheat on anyone again. come to think of it....he cried in public when he found out...wow...this has come together beautifully..

did i touch on a tough subject Nubs??
i've never been cheated on. i have cheated on someone once however and will never ever cheat on anyone again. come to think of it....he cried in public when he found out...wow...this has come together beautifully..

no, no. not exactly like that anyway. my very first boyfriend cheated on me but he and the girl told me together that it had happened. claimed to understand if i hated them forever and everything. :confused: very odd, that.
i've cheated more than once. yes, i'm a dirty girl. the bad kind. but i always feel terrible about it about. i think i've changed my ways now. :D

yeah, cheating is bad. i felt AWFUl when i did and promised myself to never ever do it again. so now...i just quickly call or text them that it's not working and THEN i go and make out with the hot guy i just met on the dance floor......he he
nubs.. atleast they told you of their affair together... that's umm...kinda nice...still not cool though..did you forgive and forget or still holding a grudge to this day???

THEN i go and make out with the hot guy i just met on the dance floor
bad, bad, kat. :p

did you forgive and forget or still holding a grudge to this day???

i forgave them while i was in the stupor of the freshly cheated on. later, after i'd thought about it i railed at him because i felt he was the one with the loyalty to me, not her. i told him it was over and if he wanted me he'd have to learn what it felt like to compete with others for my affections. it didn't really work because he was a big guy and he scared away all of the competition. :rolleyes:
eventually i had to dump him...after i was done making him miserable. :D

i'm not a bad kitty.....:(
( ok sometimes i am, but my heart is in the right place)
i have dumped a guy for the way he stood up on his tippy-toes once. thats kinda shallow hey??? i guess it was just an excuse coz he might have been bad in bed. he he. what quality MUST your man have in order for you to remain faithfull???

of course they do.
that's why they heartlessly convince you that you're the sun in their universe only to turn around and bang your best friend and actually think you're stupid enough to BELIEVE IT WHEN THEY INSIST THAT IT WAS ONLY A MISUNDERSTANDING ALL THEY WERE ACTUALLY DOING WAS PERFORMING A NEW FORM OF CPR BECAUSE SHE'D ACCIDENTALLY SWALLOWED HIS ZIPPER!!!

...but, yes, men have feelings i suppose...

:D


That's a different breed of man. I am talking about public display of feeling, I'm not talking about men who are living in emotional poverty. Men have emotions too (some of us), and we have to do business with men and women who don't, just like you do. If you were attacked by a a predator, defend yourself, but don't think that only guys do that.

It's against the male code of ethics to cry or show weakness in public. Guy's have as much feeling as women do, they just don't want any woman to every know it because female predators are experts at manipulating emotions. A female predator will spin a guy up in her web of emotional deception.

no, no. not exactly like that anyway. my very first boyfriend cheated on me but he and the girl told me together that it had happened. claimed to understand if i hated them forever and everything. :confused: very odd, that.
i've cheated more than once. yes, i'm a dirty girl. the bad kind. but i always feel terrible about it about. i think i've changed my ways now. :D


Stop hurting yourself. You only are cheating due to low self esteem.

Anyway, is this thread turning into the "I hate males" type of thread? Cheating is pointless and irrational, and usually irrational behavior has emotional causes, such as low self esteem, or self hate. There is never a reason to cheat.

It would be more interesting if girls, told me the female rules, why do females demand that guys show emotions in public? Why do females like to target weak guys, is it one of the new traps/hacks? Targetting the weak emotionally sensitive guy because hes easier to manipulate and walk over?

Cheating is natural because having sex is natural. When we 'remain faithful' (ie don't shag about like chimpanzees on crack) it's partly out of consideration for our loved ones and partly because Western morality compels us to (wherein high value is placed on monogamy).

It has nothing to do with low self-esteem.

That was rather my point. I should have put 'cheating' in inverted commas as it's a moral construct, observed exclusively by humans.

Cheating is natural because having sex is natural. When we 'remain faithful' (ie don't shag about like chimpanzees on crack) it's partly out of consideration for our loved ones and partly because Western morality compels us to (wherein high value is placed on monogamy).

It has nothing to do with low self-esteem.

Cheating has nothing to do with sex. Cheating is deception. If you want to have sex with multiple partners, be a polygamist or a polyamorist. If you want freedom, have an open relationship, and have sex with multiple partners properly.

Cheating is deception, and when you cheat, you destroy all trust in a relationship. If you are with a woman and she puts poison in your food, you'll never eat her food again. Cheating is equal to putting poison in someones food and hoping they don't find out about it. When they find out, that you could have been trying to kill them, how do you think they'll respond?

Personally, if anyone cheats no me, with the STDs of today, I'll never talk to them again, they go straight on the enemy list, along with people who try to poison me. Cheating is simply irrational. Someone with a low self esteem, and a bit of an irratiional nature, will be prone to cheating. STDs are usually spread by people who don't love themselves and who "cheat", not by swingers, not by polygamists, not by polyamorists, not by open relationships, it's spread by people who use decepton and lies to get sex. If you want sex, be a man about it, or a woman, and tell your partner what you are going to do. Don't try to change for them, just tell them who you are, if you arent a monogamous person, or just can't handle it, say so, and build your relationship around polyamory. If you are a serial monogamy person, say so. The whole point is, without trust, and without some basic honesty, you cannot have a relatinoship. The only thing which seperates a friend from an enemy is loyalty.

A person who loves you, should never put your life at risk for a good screw. A person who loves themself and who loves you, will have the safest form of open relationship, and this is where you sit down and discuss the people you are about to sleep with, and meet the person, and make the person take an STD test. The proper way to do it is to have mutual security, where you know who they really are and how they live, and attempt to do so in the safest, least harmful way to the people you love. The cheating and deception is the cowards way of handling reality. You cannot hide yourself from your partner forever, and if you are being fake whats the point? The relationship itself is fake and will end.

What has cheating got to do with sex?

Do dogs cheat?

Where in nature is this cheating to be observed?

--- Ron.

Nature is rational, cheating is irrational. Cheating is something a typical irrational human would do. There is no rational reason to cheat when you can get what you want just by changing the rules of the relationship. Cheating is how you end a relationship by destroying the foundation of trust. To me cheating is equal to poisoning, if your wife cooks your food every day, it does not matter if she spend years cooking for you, if she even once puts poison in your food and you find out, you'll never eat her food again. If your wife cheats on you even once, you'll never be able to have sex with her again because you'll never again trust her to take care of her own body. How do you know she does not have an STD? You can't know because she's sneaking around, and if you sleep with someone who has an STD you are sleeping with death. It's the cheaters who spread the STDs, not the polygamists, not the polyamorists, not even the serially monogamists, if you want the behavior profile of an STD infected person, it's the person who cheats.

If they cheat, you cannot even trust them to follow their own rules, you cannot really believe a word they say after they break their own rules. Sure a cheater can learn not to cheat, but the person they cheated on, if that person is rational, will never take their word seriously again.

and that is all very well, but you'll be surprised at how soon you run short of a choice of friends.

EVERYBODY lets you down sooner or later, one way or another, no kidding.

--- Ron.

Depends on the way they let you down. If anyone puts my life at risk, it does not matter how long I've known them, who they are, or anything. If they don't protect my life, they arent a friend. If a dog bites me and mauls me and goes for my neck, that dog is not my friend. If something attacks me in a way which could kill me, it's not my friend.

So you are correct, you'll have fewer friends, but the friends you do have, you won't have to worry about killing you in your sleep, or killing themselves and dragging you with them.

I am no expert on the subject, but I have heard that animals have been observed to deliberately deceive, and I'd expect some indication to turn up somewhere of a sense of being cheated, but with regard to sex?

I just don't know; maybe somebody else here does.

--- Ron.

Yes, animals decieve, and it's emotional not rational. If you treat your friends as enemies, you'll decieve them so they think you are their friend. That is basic animal behavior, but it does not change the fact that if a friend discovers deception that the friend instantly sees you as an enemy just as you see it.

what quality MUST your man have in order for you to remain faithfull???

from personal experience, he must be the one that makes you feel like your relationship is new always. in other words he must be the man madonna was describing in "like a virgin".

time traveler:
you may be right. i did cheat because the men i was with did not make me feel like i was desirable. i cheated because the men i went to be with made me feel like a desirable woman. my husband makes me feel that way. that and the fact that i love him (i think i may not have truly been in love with anyone else before him) has kept me an honest woman. i haven't even thought of another man for at least 2 years now. btw, that's a long time for me. :D
honestly, i think every man i've been with since my freshman year was nothing more than a rebound from him. you see, i became infatuated with him but we were friends and i didn't want to risk ruining that by telling him how i felt. that old "better a friend than nothing at all" thing. now 11 years later, we're married.

:D

EVERYBODY lets you down sooner or later, one way or another, no kidding.

--- Ron.

as morbid as it sounds, i have to agree. i'm not one to have alot of friends. too exhausting. i put everything i have into friends. their pains become mine literally. after awhile of all that drama, coupled with my own, i just can't do it anymore. so i keep to myself.

Not all people are dramatic. You need rational friends thats all. The more rational a person is, the less drama you have, because drama, and irrational behavior is a result of an emotional intensity.

I have feelings like everyone else, but I'm aware of the fact that drama is a burden. Friends are people you share the good times with, not the drama with, as most drama is what you bring to yourself by your own actions, rational behavior is behavior which minimizes drama.

and that is all very well, but you'll be surprised at how soon you run short of a choice of friends.

EVERYBODY lets you down sooner or later, one way or another, no kidding.

--- Ron.

Sure, but good people don't let you down in the things that really matter ;p

i cheated because the men i went to be with made me feel like a desirable woman.

What about those women who cheat even when the marriage/relationship is beautiful?

Like in the movie 'Unfaithful' ;p

Is it ever okay for a man to laugh at a public funeral?

What about those women who cheat even when the marriage/relationship is beautiful?

Like in the movie 'Unfaithful' ;p

I'd say cheating is ALWAYS wrong. You don't win when you cheat, it's just an illusion. Cheating is the kind of action that is contagious, if you know anything about memes (language which becomes contagious and evolving), you also know certain behaviors and actions are contagious. One cheating irrational person, creates a domino effect on hundreds of people without knowing it. This is why I say cheaters increase the spread of STDs.

Cheating hurts the self esteem of the victim, it makes the victim feel insecure, it makes the victim feel worthless. In response the victim may be less likely to be faithful in the future to others, and this creates a domino effect as others respond in similar ways.

If you've ever been cheated on, the best response is to end the vicious cycle of behavior. You see the same things with rape victims turning into rapists which creates a cycle of rape. You see the same thing when you see the father beating his wife and kids, and the kids grow up to be physically abusive. You see the same thing when you have parents who are gangsters, who raise kids who go on to become gangsters.

Behavior is contagious, and the only way to end it, is to take a negative energy and make it positive. If you respond emotionally it does not change the fact that its the wrong response and that the right response is the response which ends the cycle of cheating period, either through better communications, more open relationships, polygamy, swinging, or simply less monogamy, but the fact is cheating does not solve cheating.

I know you people are intelligent and you know what game theory is. It's irrational to choose a behavior in which everyone loses. The best behavior is the behavior with the maximal amount of winners. Most people however are irrational because they think if they win in the moment that it is more valueable than if everyone wins. When no one loses, victory is much sweeter. HonorAndStrength, your name alone tells me you know about honor, and have an idea of what I'm talking about. In team sports, the best victory is the victory where the whole team wins, not the victory where one player gets all the points and glory.

You are also right, good people don't cross a certain line, and we know what that line is as good people.

Is it ever okay for a man to laugh at a public funeral?

It is funny you should say that.

The reception that followed my mother's funeral was a remarkably light hearted affair, one might almost say gleeful. The sense of relief was palpable, to be done at last with the misery and pain of it all.

I have given instructions to bury me in a galvanised metal dustbin.

--- Ron.

You don't win when you cheat, it's just an illusion.

Ignorance is bliss.

People cheat themselves, and when they cheat on others it is most often "to please", to avoid disapproval.

Most of the lies that are told are told because it is obvious enough that the recipient would rather hear the lie.

To fail to cry in public is to lie, to cheat emotionally.

--- Ron.

perplexity :

Sometimes a man has to be the foundation and strength of a family. Hope is seen much better through the eyes of a man that has no tears.

Cheating has nothing to do with sex.
Oh yes it bloody well does. People don't deceive their partners in order go to the cinema with someone else, or share an illicit ice-cream. Cheating generally involves going at it like knives with your partner's best friend, or your boss, or the babysitter, or a complete stranger.

If you want to have sex with multiple partners, be a polygamist or a polyamorist. If you want freedom, have an open relationship, and have sex with multiple partners properly.
And suppose this isn't possible because your partner is a stubbornly monogamous born-again Christian whose sexual organs shrivelled up in 1963, and who's only interested in soap operas and new recipe ideas, and you're gagging for it but not with her, not any more, and you reckon you're in with a chance with Dirty Doris from 3 doors down, but you don't want to leave your wife because it will kill her, and then there are the kids to think of? What then? People cheat because they're not getting it at home, it's as simple as that. Moralise all you want, it'll still happen.
You don't win when you cheat, it's just an illusion.
Only if you get found out.
One cheating irrational person, creates a domino effect on hundreds of people without knowing it. This is why I say cheaters increase the spread of STDs.
Not if they use protection. They may be socially responsible cheaters, or keen to avoid fathering, or giving birth to, little bastards.
Cheating hurts the self esteem of the victim, it makes the victim feel insecure, it makes the victim feel worthless.
Only if they find out. If not then no harm done, eh? If you can live with the guilt, that is - which most serial cheaters can.

It's so blindingly obvious to say that cheating is wrong and that people shouldn't do it because people can get hurt, blah blah blah, that it's not even worth debating. Keep your partners happy in bed until they're too old to care any more. That is all.

Ignorance is bliss.

People cheat themselves, and when they cheat on others it is most often "to please", to avoid disapproval.

Most of the lies that are told are told because it is obvious enough that the recipient would rather hear the lie.

To fail to cry in public is to lie, to cheat emotionally.

--- Ron.

I disagree, I don't think there are any rules for emotional communication or expression. I think the majority of people won't care how you feel, they don't care if cry or not, they don't care if you feel pain or not, your emotions just are not factored into the equation.

Now, in private situations people might actually care, but you still don't have to follow dogmatic emotional protocol to express sadness. Find another way to show sadness besides crying. Celebrate during a sad time, tell a joke, go for a drink, or just talk about it, but why cry?

Crying is for girls not boys. Let boys be boys, and develop their own forms of emotional expression seperate from female.

Oh yes it bloody well does. People don't deceive their partners in order go to the cinema with someone else, or share an illicit ice-cream. Cheating generally involves going at it like knives with your partner's best friend, or your boss, or the babysitter, or a complete stranger.


And suppose this isn't possible because your partner is a stubbornly monogamous born-again Christian whose sexual organs shrivelled up in 1963, and who's only interested in soap operas and new recipe ideas, and you're gagging for it but not with her, not any more, and you reckon you're in with a chance with Dirty Doris from 3 doors down, but you don't want to leave your wife because it will kill her, and then there are the kids to think of? What then? People cheat because they're not getting it at home, it's as simple as that. Moralise all you want, it'll still happen.

Only if you get found out.

Not if they use protection. They may be socially responsible cheaters, or keen to avoid fathering, or giving birth to, little bastards.

Only if they find out. If not then no harm done, eh? If you can live with the guilt, that is - which most serial cheaters can.

It's so blindingly obvious to say that cheating is wrong and that people shouldn't do it because people can get hurt, blah blah blah, that it's not even worth debating. Keep your partners happy in bed until they're too old to care any more. That is all.


Deception is deception. Someone who is irrational enough to use deception for sex, is also irrational enough to use deception to kill you in your sleep, or do anything they "feel" like doing at your expense. So to be honest, I do not trust deceptive hedonists. A person can have sex without deception so tell me why deception is valueable?

If you don't want to leave your wife because it would kill her, then don't decieve her, tell her you are going to cheat and then do what you say you'll do, but keep your word. This is not the sort of thing which you can afford to lie about.

Thats just it, if you cannot handle monogamy, don't try it. If you cannot stay with a partner who is bad in bed, don't try it. Accept the fact that sex is important, and adapt. The problem here is monogamy, not people. Most people are polyamorous just as you said, most men and women do want an exciting sex life, and lets face it, sex with one person for a long period of time is not likely to be as exciting as sex with a lot of different people.

It's not about sex, if it were about sex you'd have decided against monogamy and based the relationship around sex. You don't start a relationship and then later on try to change it so it's based on sex, it has to be based on sex from the beginning, or not. If you want to change in mid stream then you have to do it in a rational way, and cheating is not the way.

Cheating is the worst way to accomplish the goal you mention. And socially responsible cheater? That's so irrational and illogical that the statement does not make any sense. This is like saying "well sure you can let your wife poison your food as long as she promises you she won't use a harmful poison.", sorry, but how do you know that?

Once a person cheats on you, trust is gone forever, it's already done, and just because they said they used protection does not mean the average person would be dumb enough to ever believe it. If you decieved them once, you'll decieve them again, and again, and again, so if you could cheat, you can cheat again by not using a condom.

Cheating is sacrificing trust in exchange for short term temporary sex gain. You'll never have that level of trust again, but you'll get a good night in bed in exchange for it? To me, thats a complete rip-off considering how rare trust is and how easy it is to get sex.

I'm a more simple guy, if I want something, I'll just tell the person what I'm going to do. If I'm going to have sex with other women, she'll just have to accept the reality of what I'm going to do. Why be a cowardly sissy about it and use deception? That's passive-aggressive, and weak, and all for a night of sex?

Do you know how this makes a person look? Do you know how this would make her feel? She'd feel like a sex object that you don't love, that you just jawbone and sleep with for pleasure, and she will be right in estimating that you'll do it again.

I'm going to make my point in the form of a question. What kinda person decieves their partner?

No, it's not OK for men to cry in public. It should be, but it's not. I went to a funeral the other day. I felt the need to cry, even though I only knew the deceased slightly. It was his distraught girlfriend that (nearly) set me off. I wanted to let it all out but held back the tears (save for one) because it just feels wrong, as a man, to cry in the presence of strangers. I think there are 2 things that hold us back. One is social conditioning: we're taught to be strong, to be in control of our emotions, and we perceive it as weak to cry publicly, or to give vent in any way to undue distress. When we're upset or in pain our conditioning teaches us not to cry or shout or scream but to be quiet and bear it stoically. The other thing that prevents us from wailing with grief is that people aren't sure how to deal with it when it happens, perhaps because they're unused to seeing it - or, perhaps, we just perceive that this is how it will be.

RedArmy I agree with you. It should be illegal for men to cry in public. Nothing good can come from it.

A man who cries in public, instantly gets labeled a bitch by women, and a fag by males. Yes, people are shallow, we live in the same world where people are judged by their skin color, so of course men are judged by their emotional displays. Emotional men are considered "weak".

The second reason is, women always look to men for strength. If a man is in a room filled with women, and they all are crying, and he starts crying too, who do they get strength from? Imagine how pathetic it would be if you saw a man crying with a room filled with women, it would make you sick to your stomach wouldnt it?

Imagine how gross it would be, if a woman is upset and goes to a man for help, and he cries too, and then the children start crying because mom and dad are crying with each other, how weak is this?

Despite everything women say, it's impossible for men to become women. Men have a responsibility on planet earth to protect the women and children, and while the women might want to weaken the men or make men look weak by making them cry in public, no woman wants a weak man, they all want to be held and protected from the harshness of the world, and a man who cries just does not have the image neccessary to make a woman feel safe.

A man needs to at least appear in control even when he isnt.

If you don't want to leave your wife because it would kill her, then don't decieve her, tell her you are going to cheat and then do what you say you'll do, but keep your word. This is not the sort of thing which you can afford to lie about.
This isn't realistic. Cheating isn't the sort of thing that you can afford not to lie about. Not if you want to keep your loved one in blissful ignorance of the deception.
Thats just it, if you cannot handle monogamy, don't try it. If you cannot stay with a partner who is bad in bed, don't try it.
This doesn't address the scenario I outlined above. Suppose you start a relationship and the sex is great but, at some point, your partner loses interest - after the second child, maybe. Or you discover that your libido is higher than his/hers and that, even though you love them in every other way, they just don't satisfy you in the marital bed. You don't want to lose everything you have with them (economically, emotionally, and so on) but, at the same time, that familiar primal urge keeps nagging at your loins... and it just so happens that the sexy new co-worker has taken quite an interest in you. This is why people cheat. Moralising about it, and demonising the people who do it, won't stop it from happening. Better to understand the motivations behind it - then you can stop it from happening to you.

socially responsible cheater?
People who cheat on their partners are more likely to use condoms than people who don't (since the people who don't cheat... don't need them).
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to spread STDs than anyone else who has sex outside of a long-term relationship, eg on a one-night stand. Do you think one-night stands are immoral?
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to use environmentally-friendly fuels than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to donate money to charities than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to be active in their local communities than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to look after their parents than people who don't.

Most people cheat because their needs aren't being fulfilled. Continue seeing cheaters as evil monsters who would just as easily kill as sleep with a stranger, and you will never understand this.

Cheating is sacrificing trust in exchange for short term temporary sex gain. You'll never have that level of trust again, but you'll get a good night in bed in exchange for it? To me, thats a complete rip-off considering how rare trust is and how easy it is to get sex.
I agree. But some people will still cheat given sufficient means, motive and opportunity. Others, like you, will think about it only occasionally, and never for long. It doesn't make you a better person though - not really. It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

RedArmy I agree with you. It should be illegal for men to cry in public. Nothing good can come from it.
That's not what I was saying. Men should be able to cry in public. Common sense says that there's nothing 'weak' about it; that it doesn't make you a 'fag' if you do it. The point I was making is that our upbringing makes it a very difficult thing to do - not that there's anything wrong with it. Try not to be so macho.

If a man is crying about something trivial, yes there is something wrong with it.

If there is a valid reason for crying, then it's ok to cry in public. It better be a good reason, though.

Who's to decide what's trivial and what isn't?

A real man cries just for fun in public.

Who's to decide what's trivial and what isn't?
I thought the word trivial was self-explanatory.

Did you mean to play semantics?

This isn't realistic. Cheating isn't the sort of thing that you can afford not to lie about. Not if you want to keep your loved one in blissful ignorance of the deception.

This doesn't address the scenario I outlined above. Suppose you start a relationship and the sex is great but, at some point, your partner loses interest - after the second child, maybe. Or you discover that your libido is higher than his/hers and that, even though you love them in every other way, they just don't satisfy you in the marital bed. You don't want to lose everything you have with them (economically, emotionally, and so on) but, at the same time, that familiar primal urge keeps nagging at your loins... and it just so happens that the sexy new co-worker has taken quite an interest in you. This is why people cheat. Moralising about it, and demonising the people who do it, won't stop it from happening. Better to understand the motivations behind it - then you can stop it from happening to you.


People who cheat on their partners are more likely to use condoms than people who don't (since the people who don't cheat... don't need them).
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to spread STDs than anyone else who has sex outside of a long-term relationship, eg on a one-night stand. Do you think one-night stands are immoral?
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to use environmentally-friendly fuels than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to donate money to charities than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to be active in their local communities than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to look after their parents than people who don't.

Most people cheat because their needs aren't being fulfilled. Continue seeing cheaters as evil monsters who would just as easily kill as sleep with a stranger, and you will never understand this.


I agree. But some people will still cheat given sufficient means, motive and opportunity. Others, like you, will think about it only occasionally, and never for long. It doesn't make you a better person though - not really. It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

that familiar primal urge keeps nagging at your loins... and it just so happens that the sexy new co-worker has taken quite an interest in you.

I do not understand. Just because you are horny and she isnt good at sex, does not mean you have to lie to her, decieve her, keep her in complete ignorance and cheat on her. Simply communicate like a man and tell her, and sorry if you can't communicate with your wife honestly, perhaps it was a bad idea to marry her in the first place.

Most people cheat because their needs aren't being fulfilled. Continue seeing cheaters as evil monsters who would just as easily kill as sleep with a stranger, and you will never understand this.

Relationships arent simply about filling a need. That is a self centered one sided way of thinking. No woman stays good at sex, sex is the first element to go in a relationship. As a woman grows old, the sex life is supposed to go stale, and thus you have swingers.

It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

I'm just rational enough to know better. If I want to have sex, I'll change the rules and cheating no longer exists. I don't have to do it in such a stupid way. If I'm determined to do something, she won't be able to stop me, but I'll at least tell her she can't stop me and that I'm going to do it, and discuss it like a man. In fact, I'd have told her I'm capable of being that way LONG before getting into a relationship so she knows how I am. If you are a sex animal, tell your partner, and give them time to adapt. Monogamy is not for everyone, and cheaters need to accept the fact that monogamy is not their strength and go for polyamory, polygamy, or some other more open and free form of relationship.

A relationship shoul d be adapted to your strengths.

Moralising about it, and demonising the people who do it, won't stop it from happening. Better to understand the motivations behind it - then you can stop it from happening to you.

People commit suicide too, doesnt mean it's rational. Look, cheating is irrational, and it does not matter if I demonize them or not, because they do it to themselves. There is never a reason to apply deception to your partner. If you can't communicate with them why are you with them anyway? If you cannot be your true self around them why bother?

I agree. But some people will still cheat given sufficient means, motive and opportunity. Others, like you, will think about it only occasionally, and never for long. It doesn't make you a better person though - not really. It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

It's a matter of intelligence. I'm a smarter person. If you are smart you can get what you want without deception, simply talk them into it, and if you can't, then find another partner who you can have an open relationship with.

Once again, there is no reason to cheat. If you don't care how she feels, why use deception, just tell her what you are going to do, and dump her in the process, but why lie?

You have not made the case as to why deception is rational, all you have said is "well people get horny and feel the need to cheat and can't resist", when in reality cheating is against the rules THEY agreed upon.

Look, when you sign a contract for a business deal, just because you don't feel like following it anymore, does this mean you can just back out of it? This would be a white collar crime.

This is not simply about morality, ethics, or moralization, this is not about self control, it's about intelligence. A smart person can get what they want by changing the laws, while a stupid person has to break the law. If you don't like the rules, change them, but follow the rules you set!

The most basic code of ethics, that even criminals and gangsters follow, keep your word and follow the rules you set. If you don't keep your word, everything that comes out of your mouth means shit. If you don't follow the rules then there are no rules, do you know what that means?

I thought the word trivial was self-explanatory.
Did you mean to play semantics?
Would it be ok for, say, an 18-year-old to cry in public because he's just been dumped by his first proper girlfriend, who he's been seeing for 3 weeks? I remember seeing something like this on one of those 'police on patrol' documentaries a while back. The poor lad crying buckets; the officer comforting him; me watching and laughing because seeing men cry so openly is such an unusual sight.

Trivial to some. Not to him.

No, it is not ok to cry in public over that. The 18 year old is still young and has much to learn about life.

First, 3 weeks? That's it? A fart in the wind relative to our lifespan.
Secondly, if the girl dumped him, why cry? She didn't love him.
Thirdly, can't you wait until you get somewhere private?
Lastly, he's 18. There are more females than there are males on planet Earth. Have fun.

This would be trivial. The 18 year old doesn't realize it, but it is trivial.
3 years, I would maybe understand. Even then, I would say, do it in private.
3 weeks? Fart in the wind.

Sure it's not trivial to him, but that is why some of us cry in public and some of us don't. You can go ahead and cry in public if you want to, though.

Would it be ok for, say, an 18-year-old to cry in public because he's just been dumped by his first proper girlfriend, who he's been seeing for 3 weeks? I remember seeing something like this on one of those 'police on patrol' documentaries a while back. The poor lad crying buckets; the officer comforting him; me watching and laughing because seeing men cry so openly is such an unusual sight.

Trivial to some. Not to him.


I can understand him crying, but he's stupid to do so in public. What if the ex-gf ever found out he cried for her? It would only add to her pleasure.

I can understand him crying, but he's stupid to do so in public. What if the ex-gf ever found out he cried for her? It would only add to her pleasure.
No, it is not ok to cry in public over that. The 18 year old is still young and has much to learn about life.
Rationalisations, both. When you've got reason enough to cry, you'll cry. Where you are and how many people you're surrounded by won't matter.You can go ahead and cry in public if you want to, though.
When I need to I will, as will you - even though society forbids.

Yes, go ahead and cry over such things.

That will be the moment you lose your manhood. Unless.......

When I need to I will, as will you - even though society forbids.
Yes, go ahead and cry over such things.

That will be the moment you lose your manhood. Unless.......
As you can see from the quote above, I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about us.

I'm sorry, but there is no 'us'. I don't swing that way, buddy! I am married!

I am sure there is a nice guy out there for you, but I love women.
I'm sorry. Hope you find your lucky guy!

I'm sorry, but there is no 'us'. I don't swing that way, buddy! I am married!

I am sure there is a nice guy out there for you, but I love women.
I'm sorry. Hope you find your lucky guy!
Me too. I'm 200% straight. The only butts I'm interested in are headbutts.

But that's beside the point.

Are you saying that there are no circumstances in which you would cry publicly?

If a man is crying about something trivial, yes there is something wrong with it.

If there is a valid reason for crying, then it's ok to cry in public. It better be a good reason, though.

................

And my point is: one person's idea of "a good reason" isn't necessarily another person's idea of "a good reason". Yes?

Are you slow or something?

Do you actually believe another human being does not understand that elementary concept?

I mean, here you are repeating yourself over and over.

Then you ask, "Are you saying that there are no circumstances in which you would cry publicly?"
after I clearly stated the opposite.

I don't care if the 18 year old thinks it's a good reason or not. I can tell you right now, as many other men would tell you, it's not a good reason.

I think I'll fade to the background now.

Are you slow or something?

Do you actually believe another human being does not understand that elementary concept?

I mean, here you are repeating yourself over and over.

Then you ask, "Are you saying that there are no circumstances in which you would cry publicly?"
after I clearly stated the opposite.

I don't care if the 18 year old thinks it's a good reason or not. I can tell you right now, as many other men would tell you, it's not a good reason.

I think I'll fade to the background now.
No, don't go. You're clearly a total fucking prick and I'm starting to enjoy our discussion now. :)

Who are these "many other men"?
Who appointed you to speak for them?

It's you who's arguing in circles - prick.

Would it be ok for, say, an 18-year-old to cry in public because he's just been dumped by his first proper girlfriend, who he's been seeing for 3 weeks? I remember seeing something like this on one of those 'police on patrol' documentaries a while back. The poor lad crying buckets; the officer comforting him; me watching and laughing because seeing men cry so openly is such an unusual sight.

Trivial to some. Not to him.

Perfectly good reason for a man to cry. Even if the man in question was 80 years old. Or 30.

perplexity :
Sometimes a man has to be the foundation and strength of a family. Hope is seen much better through the eyes of a man that has no tears.

Are you the foundation and strength of a family, or a child who looks for hope?

In my experience men reluctant to share their emotions rarely get as far as founding a family.

--- Ron.

What good does crying in public do you? None. What good does it do someone else? None. So, why should anyone do it? They shouldn't. If you're going to cry, you should respect other people's time and do it in private.

What good does it do a man to cry in public???

1. it is a public statement that opposes the silliness of artificial morals opposed by the moral police of the braindead majority.
2. crying is healthy.


Based on the research, crying lightens one’s feelings, and people with positive attitude towards crying have a very slim chance of developing ulcer, colitis, and other stress related diseases.

http://www.mobileactive.org/node/3432

What good does crying in public do you? None. What good does it do someone else? None. So, why should anyone do it? They shouldn't. If you're going to cry, you should respect other people's time and do it in private.


I agree, it is a private matter, sometimes it cannot be helped, but if it can be avoided it should be.

Crying maybe cathartic, but crying in public is emabarrassing and draws attention to weakness.


No harm in crying in the comfort of your own home though, or in places where crying is the 'norm' such as funerals and sci forum 'meet ups'.

whatever...

1. crying is healthy.
2. public emotions make my day. i want to see real people. I do not care about people who think they should live their lives according to silly morals. So, please be a man and cry in public. Shout in public. Fart in public. And forgot about the moral idiocy of the mindless majority. Or as Einstein liked to say: They are the farts. You fart.


So cry. Please.

http://www.ngoabroad.com/images/india--crying%20man%20with%20hand%20of%20dead%208%20year% 20old%20son--slurpee--2607187_b58484d614.jpg
Beautiful
http://www.oldmencrying.com/images/crying.man.jpeg
Beautiful
http://www.witnessforpeace.org/images/crying%20man%20with%20fumigated%20peanuts%202.jpg
Beautiful

What about those women who cheat even when the marriage/relationship is beautiful?

Like in the movie 'Unfaithful' ;p

i never had a beautiful relationship before now. they were all utilitarian. i had to learn to love the man before my true love. :(

Are you the foundation and strength of a family, or a child who looks for hope?

In my experience men reluctant to share their emotions rarely get as far as founding a family.

--- Ron.

I have a family, yes. However, there is something you don't understand because you haven't mentioned it yet.

I do not wish to cry because I don't feel the need to. Again, the only reason I would cry is for a very good reason. For instance, if I just lost my son/daughter/wife in a terrorist attack, I would sob anywhere I am. Sob, not cry. Yes, there is a difference. I would do my real crying over my family in private. Any other matters that aren't in line with that type of situation, it would bother me or make me sad, but it does not mean I am repressing my tears. It just means that men are hardened by life and have no need for crying for anything bad that happens to me. There is always hope for the future. Once the storm passes, the skies will be clear again.

Lastly, Hope is seen much better through the eyes of a man who has no tears.

.... It just means that men are hardened by life and have no need for crying for anything bad that happens to me. There is always hope for the future. Once the storm passes, the skies will be clear again.

Is that what you hope for, to be too hard to feel?


Lastly, Hope is seen much better through the eyes of a man who has no tears.

Which man was that?
None that I know.
Feel hard; see hard.

--- Ron.

Well, for my first example, me. You made the assumption that I hope to become that way. Clearly, I never told you if I was already that way, which I am.
I am not too hard to feel.

However, what situations am I supposed to be feeling for?

However, what situations am I supposed to be feeling for?

Life.

--- Ron.

For all males.
When was the last time you cried???

For all males.
When was the last time you cried???

This morning.

--- Ron.

For all males.
When was the last time you cried???
In public? I was 5

To myself? About a month ago

Interesting. I don't remember the last time I cried. Not for several years now.

A lot of people associate crying with weakness, they are wrong. Crying is actually a very powerful and dangerous emotion, and can be very effective depending on the cryee's state of mind.

A lot of people associate crying with weakness, they are wrong. Crying is actually a very powerful and dangerous emotion, and can be very effective depending on the cryee's state of mind.

That was not my intention (if you mean from my post); I'm too impatient with myself to cry; mostly, I usually try to figure out what I should do to either resolve or let go of the situation.
It calms me down to rationalise the process.
Maybe that's another kind of defence mechanism?

A lot of people associate crying with weakness, they are wrong. Crying is actually a very powerful and dangerous emotion, and can be very effective depending on the cryee's state of mind.

Yes.

During domestic disputes I used to be angry. Then I realised that the hurt is the more honest, more immediate emotion, and then indeed, hey presto, the truth is more effective than the lie.

Why deny myself the effect of it when for years I'd been beating my head against the proverbial wall with a derived emotion instead of the real thing?

When you want somebody else to change themselves trust them to know that it makes a difference, display the result of their actions.
Invulnerablity begets indifference.

--- Ron.

Invulnerablity begets indifference.

--- Ron.

But vulnerability begets contempt.

But vulnerability begets contempt.

So what?

Are you beneath contempt or above it?

If that is the sort of company you keep, move.

--- Ron.

No, don't go. You're clearly a total fucking prick and I'm starting to enjoy our discussion now. :)

Who are these "many other men"?
Who appointed you to speak for them?

It's you who's arguing in circles - prick.

I agree with him, crying in public over a girl is what guys consider a "bitch move". You don't cry over a girl in front of your friends, that is what guys called "pussy whipped bitch". You act like you've never been around guys before.

It's against the rules to cry in public, period, follow the rules to the best of your ability. If you are at your mothers funeral it's understandable if you cry. If you are watching a sad movie with your gf it's understandable if you cry.

There is a huge difference between crying out of weakness, and crying because of a funeral, or because you are being tortured and beaten, or because you are laughing. The key is, men do not cry out of a weakness, we cry out of strength.

If you got to meet someone you really looked up to and respected, you might cry out of happiness and pride, these arent the same kind of tears as crying because your gf beat the shit out of you. You can be expected to cry because your gf beat the shit out of you, but you should NEVER do it in front of people, and should take it in private, like a man.

The worst possible thing a man can do, is get dumped by a girl, and let the girl know he cried over it.

Are you the foundation and strength of a family, or a child who looks for hope?

In my experience men reluctant to share their emotions rarely get as far as founding a family.

--- Ron.

Why are you endorsing weakness? You know how this world is, you are in your 50s. I remember you and I had a debate before, and I called you a young man, because sometimes you say things which seem so naive.

Children look to their father for strength, does not matter how you choose to interpret it, it's true. When you were a boy, you needed the male figure to show you how to be strong, how to fight bullies, how to take on the world and win. It sends the wrong msg to break down and cry in front of your son. How is your son going to learn to fight if you show so much weakness?

Yes I agree, it's alright to cry in front of your wife on occassion, but never out of weakness, never out of weakness. Tell me, because you promised you would,

how do you fight predators, bullies, and take on the harsh cruel world, if you show so much weakness? We discussed this topic before and you said you'd enlighten me, how do you fight back?

The truth is, and HonorAndStrength seems to be one of the few who seem to understand what I'm talking about. This world is filled with predators, bullies, and monsters, all who prey on weakness and the most vulnerable in society. Usually these people prey on the weakest target, starting with homeless lesbian or gay minorities, and slowly working upward to straight men who happen to be at the top of the predator pyramid. The way a prison works, is very much the way life works outside of a prison. If you behave like a fag, people will label you a fag. If you behave like a bitch people will label you a bitch, and once you get labeled, it attracts predators. These labels are a way for predators to know who they can rape, fuck, bully, or beat up on. If you are in prison, surrounded by ruthless predators, and you cry in front of them, all this will do is turn you into a prison bitch.

Now, lets take the military as the next example, if you go off to war, and guns are shooting back and forth, and you start crying, are your fellow soldiers going to respect you? What kind of captain, or leader breaks down in the middle of the action? Have you wondered why there was the fight to keep women out of the military?Have you wondered why there was the fight to keep gays out of the military? Despite what modern metrosexuals may think, certain people and behavior types are considered weak. When you bargan from a position of weakness, you already lost before you start.

I'm not saying that you shouldnt have emotions, of course you do. Most people in the military are afraid to kill, and in just as much fear as anyone would be when guns are coming out and bullets flying at them. The difference is, they don't show the enemy their fear because it only gives the enemy strength. Showing weakness to the enemy, improves morale for the enemy, not for you.

Good points, TT. Good points.

A man must show strength to show that there is hope, even when it is apparent that there is no hope. He must still be strong and give his family and others hope.

As for crying over a girl dumping you... yeah, I agree with you TT. They act like they have been sheltered most of their lives.
If a girl that you were together with for -3 WEEKS- dumps you, seriously, who cares? Get another girl. There are lots of them. If you loved her for some weird reason, she obviously DID NOT LOVE YOU because she dumped you so why cry? Stop being a pussy and have some dignity.

Yes.

During domestic disputes I used to be angry. Then I realised that the hurt is the more honest, more immediate emotion, and then indeed, hey presto, the truth is more effective than the lie.

Why deny myself the effect of it when for years I'd been beating my head against the proverbial wall with a derived emotion instead of the real thing?

When you want somebody else to change themselves trust them to know that it makes a difference, display the result of their actions.
Invulnerablity begets indifference.

--- Ron.


Not everyone is as good at emotional display. Not everyone is a good emotional actor. Emotions should not be about display ability, because a male will almost never be able to beat a woman at the display. Males should develop their own emotional expressions and their own ways of displaying it, and no I did not say anger, I'm just saying, men will not