When acted upon, is it harmful for the child?

If no, please substantiate with evidence

For the purpose of this discussion, consider any sexual advances made to a prepubescent or peripubescent child as pedophilia. This can be verbal, physical or otherwise.

When acted upon, is it harmful for the child?

Are you asking in absolutes? ..as in, EVERY child is harmed?

If no, please substantiate with evidence.

But if one gives a 'yes' answer, then they don't have to substantiate it with evidence?

By the way, I think you should probably include a good, concise definition of "pedophilia" ....because there seems to be some confusion. Some think that it necessarily means intercourse. Is just touching pedophilia?

Baron Max

Here we go again.

I voted "maybe, not sure" only because I don't think there can ever be a controlled study of the issue. I know for a fact that it's harmful to children who are raised in societies (all of them today?) that define it as harmful.

Are you asking in absolutes? ..as in, EVERY child is harmed?

There is a poll option for some other opinion



But if one gives a 'yes' answer, then they don't have to substantiate it with evidence?

There are a lot of studies already done on this

By the way, I think you should probably include a good, concise definition of "pedophilia" ....because there seems to be some confusion. Some think that it necessarily means intercourse. Is just touching pedophilia?

Ok, I'll put it in the OP

By the way, I think you should probably include a good, concise definition of "pedophilia" ....because there seems to be some confusion. Some think that it necessarily means intercourse. Is just touching pedophilia?

Baron Max
Right. Anything that physically harms a child or anyone is bad. But what about all of the myriad other forms of sexual contact that don't involve penile penetration?

Here we go again.

I voted "maybe, not sure" only because I don't think there can ever be a controlled study of the issue. I know for a fact that it's harmful to children who are raised in societies (all of them today?) that define it as harmful.

It was sparked by this

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1431639&postcount=512

But what about all of the myriad other forms of sexual contact that don't involve penile penetration?

What about in nations of the world where girls are married and have children when they're, oh, 13 to 15 years old? And it's done so with the consent and blessings of the families and of society. Is that pedophilia? Or is it something else? Or is it just how we define things?

Baron Max

It was sparked by this

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1431639&postcount=512
Wow! Somebody got a stick up their ass...

What about in nations of the world where girls are married and have children when they're, oh, 13 to 15 years old? And it's done so with the consent and blessings of the families and of society. Is that pedophilia? Or is it something else? Or is it just how we define things?

Baron Max
Yes. I think it's almost entirely about how we define things. Clearly you are correct to point out the many countries where young people (children?!?) start families.

Wow! Somebody got a stick up their ass...

I find it strange to see people who are homophobic, defending pedophilia.

What about consent?:confused:

What about consent?:confused:
RIght. I said in some other pedophile thread that until a "child" can sucessfully navigate the social landscape independently, informed consent is a dicey proposition.

RIght. I said in some other pedophile thread that until a "child" can sucessfully navigate the social landscape independently, informed consent is a dicey proposition.

Let me put it this way, why do we place emphasis on consent for sex?

I find it strange to see people who are homophobic, defending pedophilia.

You find lots of things strange. But where did you see anyone who's homophobic defending pedophila? Or did you just read what you wanted to read in those posts????? ...like you usually do?

What about consent?

What is "consent" exactly? And who can give consent? Or should it be a legal contract witnessed by unbiased parties?

Baron Max

Let me put it this way, why do we place emphasis on consent for sex?

That's a western ideal. In many nations, India is one, I believe, where the parents give the consent for the old fart to marry and have sex with their 13-15 yr old daughter. So, ...is that consent?

Baron Max

That's a western ideal. In many nations, India is one, I believe, where the parents give the consent for the old fart to marry and have sex with their 13-15 yr old daughter. So, ...is that consent?

Baron Max

I would like your opinion on the effects of pedophilia on prepubescent or peripubescent children.

You find lots of things strange. But where did you see anyone who's homophobic defending pedophila? Or did you just read what you wanted to read in those posts????? ...like you usually do?

You mean this?

Your statements are untrue.

Pedophilia harms some children, but not others. Pedophilia can be consensual, or it cannot be consensual.

Gay marriage harms the sensibilities of people who do not believe in gay sex.

What is "consent" exactly? And who can give consent? Or should it be a legal contract witnessed by unbiased parties?

Baron Max


Let us consider the principle of consent itself, the individual's consent.

Let us consider the principle of consent itself, the individual's consent.

Okay, let's do it.

Little Johnny, 17, is madly in love with little Jill, 16. They've been having wonderful, consentual, loving, satisfying sex for months ...they're the happiest two people in the whole world.

Then one day, little Johnny turns 18. The following day, little Johnny and little Jill have the same wonderful, consentual, loving, satisfying sex that they've been having for months.

But, wait! Johnny is now a pedophile!!! And Jill must surely be traumatized and harmed for her entire life ...because that's what the polls and studies say. Their lives are ruined ...Johnny goes to jail and is condemned as a horrible, nasty pedophile, and that stigma will follow him for the rest of his life, and Jill is so tramatized by the acts of pedophilia that she can't even show her face in society.

Yep, all pedophilia is truly a terrible thing! And all children who are touched by it are traumatized for life. :D

Baron Max

I would like your opinion on the effects of pedophilia on prepubescent or peripubescent children.

So now you want to discuss only a small part of pedophilia?

And if you're trying to get everyone to agree, why don't you ask about the effects of pedophilia on new-born babies?! That'll surely make everyone vote the way you want them to vote.

Your poll, Sam, is so fucked up that any votes can't possibly be meaningful.

Baron Max

Let me put it this way, why do we place emphasis on consent for sex?
Because without consent, it's a violation of the physical person. Just like any form of involuntary physical contact at any age. Except that penetrative sex is far more "intimate" contact and thus even more requiring of consent.

You have a friendly pat on the back at one extreme and intercourse at the other.

This applies at any age. Isn't non-consensual sex for adults called rape?

I find it perfectly plausible that some percentage of prepubescent humans (who already are exploring themselves and their "playmates" sexually) would be willing and not be harmed by the gentle sexual attention of an adult if the fear of such contact wasn't first instilled by parents/gaurdians.

Are human children inherently afraid of sexual contact? I think the answer to that is no.

In current society, it's virtually impossible to be objective about such a thing.

Let me put it this way, why do we place emphasis on consent for sex?We do that for adult women, at least in my country. Now we even do it for adult men. It would be pretty strange not to apply the same standard to children, who are physically weaker and less able to fend off a sexual advance.Then one day, little Johnny turns 18. The following day, little Johnny and little Jill have the same wonderful, consentual, loving, satisfying sex that they've been having for months. But, wait! Johnny is now a pedophile!That actually happened to the son of a friend of mine. The girl's parents knew about it all along and didn't care but one day they just woke up and were mad at the guy for some reason and called the pigs on him. He is now a registered sex offender in that state. He couldn't get a job or anything so he moved back in with his mother, who fortunately lives in the Holy Land. When he dutifully went to the police to register, the clerk looked up his record and started laughing. She tore up his form and said, "Welcome to California." Good thing he likes it there, he'll probably have to stay forever.When acted upon, is it harmful for the child?I think this is one of those cases where we have to be politically incorrect and acknowledge the difference between boys and girls.I would like your opinion on the effects of pedophilia on prepubescent or peripubescent children.Thank you. That should be the definition. Anyone who calls sex with a sixteen-year-old pedophilia, especially if you're nineteen, needs to get therapy and probably should be discouraged from having children of his own.What about in nations of the world where girls are married and have children when they're, oh, 13 to 15 years old? And it's done so with the consent and blessings of the families and of society. Is that pedophilia? Or is it something else? Or is it just how we define things?I think children are very much affected by the culture they live in. If they're taught that something is "normal" they'll probably react to it with less trauma, which is not the same as none.I find it perfectly plausible that some percentage of prepubescent humans (who already are exploring themselves and their "playmates" sexually) would be willing and not be harmed by the gentle sexual attention of an adult if the fear of such contact wasn't first instilled by parents/gaurdians.I once knew a guy who had been busted for what was then called "child molestation." (Forty years ago--I'm not sure what I'd do if someone admitted that to an older and wiser me today.) He said one of the things that made it such a difficult and complex issue is that if you do it "right," the children just regard it as a new kind of playing and they enjoy it. Obviously he was not talking about penetration and physical trauma.

As for how those kids feel about those past experiences when they grow older and learn about sex the "proper" way... Relating to it personally, I would think that a (heterosexual) boy who had been "molested" by a man would be overwhelmed by our powerful homophobic instincts and feel revulsion. Yet it's not uncommon for peripubescent boys to fool around with each other and all of them can't be hopelessly screwed up. I can't guess how girls or gay boys feel as long as they regarded it as voluntary.

Adult women "molesting" boys is much rarer, but I think anyone who believes the little boy will be "damaged" by that experience is a moron.Are human children inherently afraid of sexual contact? I think the answer to that is no.I would agree, but more so if you're talking about contact that matches the child's own sexual orientation.In current society, it's virtually impossible to be objective about such a thing.No, just to talk about it. :)

Most Prepubescent boys and girls are pretty gulliable, so even if they did consent and enjoy it, its basically exploiting the children so it is still morally wrong.
As to whether it harms them or not, it depends on a case by case basis but I voted yes as in most cases it will harm them, especially if they didn't know what was happening

This is of course before Puberty kicks in, when that happens, we've got Sex Ed and most end up ok.

Anyone who calls sex with a sixteen-year-old pedophilia, especially if you're nineteen, needs to get therapy and probably should be discouraged from having children of his own.

Thats true, as usually by 14 most teenagers have gotten a lot of information from either their parents or their peers.

The poll results so far are pretty telling given the nature of many of the responses up to this point.

I deliberately kept it anonymous too.

I deliberately kept it anonymous too.
Well, reading the thread will tell you who the only "not sure" response is. I think you have a little societal experiment on your hands here, in addition to the main thrust of the thread.

Apparently. I don't understand why more people have not contributed. Don't people have any opinion either way? Or is it that their opinions are not mainstream and they feel constrained about going public with them?

Apparently. I don't understand why more people have not contributed. Don't people have any opinion either way? Or is it that their opinions are not mainstream and they feel constrained about going public with them?
I doubt that, especially here, people don't have an opinion!

I think your second guess is closer to the mark.

Hmmm.... I'm going to take a step back and have an evolutionary glance at GAY pedophilia.

As humans progressed in their evolution, some fat old humans got bored of women, or perhaps they got isolated from them for a time, either way some humans started taking it in the ass and passed on these strange urges to their children, and their childrens children, until next thing you know, half of society is secretly gay... Not me!

I think after a time of gay pedophilia the boys learn to enjoy, like a man learns to enjoy bitter beer, and then ends up giving the old man so much more sex than his wife that it's not even funny, especially when we realize how fucking insane the hormones of men can be.

ehh, I dunno, just throwing out ideas I suppose.....

I would say "sick mother f*cking pedophiles," evolutionary or not.

Apparently. I don't understand why more people have not contributed. Don't people have any opinion either way? Or is it that their opinions are not mainstream and they feel constrained about going public with them?

Because - it's FUCKED.

A child that young cannot be relied upon to form "consent". It's a sick poll in my opinion.

Because - it's FUCKED.

A child that young cannot be relied upon to form "consent".

Thats how I see it too

It's a sick poll in my opinion.

Don't you want to know if everyone sees it the way you do? And why?

So you see, sam, objectivity with regard to this subject is even far less possible than with the second worst subject for preconceived ideas - religion.

Apparently. I don't understand why more people have not contributed. Don't people have any opinion either way? Or is it that their opinions are not mainstream and they feel constrained about going public with them?I think Darky just wore us out with polls. :)

When acted upon, is it harmful for the child?

Only if it's done right.

Actually, I think we're better off with Satanic panics and all fathers being demonized and everything that some weird-ass person says being true as long as it's hateful towards pedophiles.

I am being forced to say this but I'm not allowed to tell you why.

Actually, I think we're better off with Satanic panics and all fathers being demonized and everything that some weird-ass person says being true as long as it's hateful towards pedophiles.

I am being forced to say this but I'm not allowed to tell you why.

Could you elaborate at all?

It's just because I'm tired of the usual shitstorms. What I know for sure is that "their" case is totally unbelievable, but they have an incredible number of ways to hurt people. They have practically nothing to help people in fact.

Who? :confused:

I think Darky just wore us out with polls. :)

Quite possibly, I was just hoping anyone who did not feel comfortable talking about it would at least take the opportunity of an anonymous poll to voice their opinion.

Oh well.

Who? :confused:

The haters. They are unbelievable because their hate just finds a central focus and then spreads out along any connections that they can find. Everything is related to anything else, a natural fact, so of course they can always find something that is "linked" or is "like" pedophilia. Then they get away with being worse criminals than the pedophiles.

I think that Western cultures could find ways to disapprove of pedophilia while still being good to the child, but Americans are in the habit of destroying their children.