Can you provide a philosophical rationale to explain why life is or is not worth living? If you think life is worth living, why do you think that? If you don't think life is worth living, what keeps you from committing suicide?

I'd think if one had a family, friends or relitives that would miss them then they should stick around for them as much as for themselves. If one had no one that cared for them and didn't see the point of continuing then they should seek professional help quickly to get help in understanding why they feel suicidal and if something can't be done to help them.

No. Life isn't "worth" living.

Who's life?

Can you provide a philosophical rationale to explain why life is or is not worth living?

No, probably not. Because there's probably a gazillion differing thoughts on the value of life ...dependent on the person and their situation.

Very wealthy people might see the people in the slums of India and consider that a life like that can't be worth living. And to the rich man, it might be true. But to the poverty-stricken Indian, he probably doesn't even know any better life, so he's moderately content.

My own life, right now, is worth living because I enjoy my retirement so much that I'm happier'n a pig in the mud on a hot Texas day. But I'm an old fart, so pretty soon some of my parts might stop working well, I might be in horrific pain. At which time, I'll reassess whether my life is worth living under those conditions. Time varies everything ...including the value of life.

Baron Max

You...are a philosopher Baron Max ;)

You...are a philosopher Baron Max ;)

Now that is really, really hitting below the belt!! I can't think of anything worse you could have called me. And I'm going to write to one of those moderator-things to have you banned for life ....and all of your children, too!

Baron Max

Life precedes worth. First you live, then you value things.

I'm happier'n a pig in the mud on a hot Texas day.

Baron Max

HA! That's a twist, I always thought it.... Couldn't be happier then a pig in shit!:)

Value is too subjective. What I value and what you value are too different to be comparable.

Taking value out of the equation, you wind up with something similar to,"Does life have a purpose?" The answer is simply no.

More complex answer delves into the realms of personal beliefs and whatnot. In the absence of any sort of spirituality, merely the purpose of meat and water bags, I suppose you could argue that procreation and the care for one's progeny would be a purpose, survival of the species and all that.

But I like simplicity. No. Life has no purpose, and thus, no value.

cosmictraveler- Aren't psychologists only going to give a person psychotherapy in order for them to develop a sense of self that will allow them to live in the illusion of their own self-worth?

Baron Max- If the question of whether or not life is worth living is relative, then how should a person make themselves relatively happy? I know you can't give specifics, but can you give a method or perspective?

Swarm- Saying life precedes worth insinuates that a person should abandon the "why" of existence entirely and probably adhere to science. In that case, is the best option for a person who can't find value in life to see a psychiatrist or neuroscientist in order to receive treatment to get a better neurochemical state? Now, if you say yes, what do you say to people who are unable to abandon the "why" of existence, the question of whether or not life is worth living? Do those people just need drugs and that is all there is to it?

Mr. Hamtastic- So if life has no purpose, why shouldn't a person commit suicide?

The people who cannot answer because they are dead will have their opinions underrepresented.

Eidolan-that depends. If an individual has subjectively placed value on their life or some aspect of it, then they shouldn't. If there is no value, even subjectively, why shouldn't a person commit suicide, indeed?

The people who cannot answer because they are dead will have their opinions underrepresented.

Perhaps you can provide their opinions for them?

Mr. Hamtastic- I'm glad you understand the issue.

Perhaps you can provide their opinions for them?
Well, many of those who killed themselves thought NOT. Perhaps they changed their minds after, if they had minds then or if they remembered.

Mr. Hamtastic
Life has no purpose, and thus, no value.

Life creates purpose and value.

I don't even know where to begin. I would just be writing pages and pages of things I love doing and seeing. Everything about life is amazing, I would live if all I could do is look upon a nice landscape, or listen to natures music. jusst being able to think is enough for me to want to live.

But if I was deaf, dumb, blind and handicap I guess it would suck alot. but I would still want to live I think.

Look t all of the things we can do and experience its beyond words, just look up at the stars at night, or climb a mountain and look down upon forests, lakes glades and plains. there is so many things to do and to see. I need atleast 10 thousand yers just to enjoy earth to about 10%.

Damn life is great.


peace.

Can you provide a philosophical rationale to explain why life is or is not worth living? If you think life is worth living, why do you think that? If you don't think life is worth living, what keeps you from committing suicide?
My friends keep me from committing suicide, I fear that without them I'd be dead by now. Currently though life is pretty okay so I'd say your life is made worth living by the people you love.

Eidolan
Saying life precedes worth insinuates that a person should abandon the "why" of existence entirely and probably adhere to science.

No such insinuation was implied. I'm not prescribing actions, I'm observing the order of things.

In that case, is the best option for a person who can't find value in life to see a psychiatrist or neuroscientist in order to receive treatment to get a better neurochemical state?

The best option I would say is to create your worth and let go of your concern.

Worth is not found, it is created. Concern about worth is a seperate issue, uneeded suffering.

Life is worth living because it seems to be your only chance to experience anything.

It is true that answering this question in the affirmative depends on valuing something, which is a subjective enterprise. I have no idea how I could ever really convince someone else to value something. For instance, if you do not value pleasure... I do not know how to change your mind about that. If you do not value your life and your oppurtunity to experience stuff, I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise.

I guess I could say, "Give life a try, I bet you won't want to give it up afterwards."

11parcal
My friends keep me from committing suicide

I'm glad you are still about to converse with.

My friends keep me from committing suicide, I fear that without them I'd be dead by now. Currently though life is pretty okay so I'd say your life is made worth living by the people you love.

Hmm, I'd say that your life is pretty shitty if you have to be so dependant on other people in order to decide whether to live or die! When do you become independent?

And what happens if those friends decide they like someone else instead of you? ...you'll just shoot yourself? Geez, how freakin' dependent is that???

Baron Max

"Life is worth living" is a meaningless sentence, as is the opposite "Life isn't worth living".

"Life is worth living" is a meaningless sentence, as is the opposite "Life isn't worth living".Don't leave us hanging ...

Why do you say that?

Don't leave us hanging ...

Why do you say that?

Because saying life is worth living is nonsense, you have no frame of reference.

Hmm, I'd say that your life is pretty shitty if you have to be so dependant on other people in order to decide whether to live or die! When do you become independent?

And what happens if those friends decide they like someone else instead of you? ...you'll just shoot yourself? Geez, how freakin' dependent is that???

Baron Max

Well without others why would you want to live? If you were completely alone in the world would you want to live?

My life to be irrelevent and unimportant to me, the only reason I live is for my friends...

Is death worth dying?

Life is only worth living if it brings a betterment. A life of anything, and a betterment for anything.

Life is only worth living if it brings a betterment. A life of anything, and a betterment for anything.

"Betterment" is subjective, while the statement "Life is worth living" is an absolute one.

Let's take a specific example. Is our existence in this board worth 'living'?

Is death worth dying?

Exactly.

Is death worth dying?

Death is nothing but a goal all people will one day reach

Death is nothing but a goal all people will one day reach

It's not a goal, it's a consequence.

Let's take a specific example. Is our existence in this board worth 'living'?

To that my own question, my answer is, it is only worth 'living' if you bring betterment to it (namely posivite contribution). If one just come to troll and spread hatred, it isn't worth 'living', because the forum existence would be better off without him/her.

To that my own question, my answer is, it is only worth 'living' if you bring betterment to it (namely posivite contribution). If one just come to troll and spread hatred, it isn't worth 'living', because the forum existence would be better off without him/her.

So people who do no good in life are not worthy to live? What would you consider betterment?

To that my own question, my answer is, it is only worth 'living' if you bring betterment to it (namely posivite contribution). If one just come to troll and spread hatred, it isn't worth 'living', because the forum existence would be better off without him/her.

So we can decide about others whether or not their life is worth living ??

So people who do no good in life are not worthy to live? What would you consider betterment?

Apparently, and "good" will be according to his own personal interpretation of course.

Well without others why would you want to live? If you were completely alone in the world would you want to live?

I didn't say that at all. You can live with others, you can interact with others, you can even fuck others if you want, .......it's being dependent on them as you suggested where you get into trouble.

Being independent does NOT mean that you have to shun all your friends or anyone else.

Baron Max

So people who do no good in life are not worthy to live?

I think so.

What would you consider betterment?

Betterment is the increase of quality of other's life. This is not easy and therefore makes life worth living.

So we can decide about others whether or not their life is worth living ??

Occam's razor (sp?).

I didn't say that at all. You can live with others, you can interact with others, you can even fuck others if you want, .......it's being dependent on them as you suggested where you get into trouble.

Being independent does NOT mean that you have to shun all your friends or anyone else.

Baron Max

I just believe that if I was hated by everyone I probably wouldn't want to live very much.

I think so.

So you would decide who lives and who dies ? God complex perhaps ?

Death is nothing but a goal all people will one day reach

It's not a goal, it's a consequence.

If you want to get technical, both are true

Occam's razor (sp?).

I don't see what Occams Razor has to do with this. Explain.

I just believe that if I was hated by everyone I probably wouldn't want to live very much.

There are many reasons people hate each other:
- craziness
- jealousy
- feeling victimized
- etc

You can never know. As long as you don't purposely do bad to others, why bothers with hatred? Hatred consumes your heart, brain, energy, etc.

If you want to get technical, both are true

No, death is not the goal of life. I really don't know how you figured that one.

It might not be the goal we want but we'll still get there

There are many reasons people hate each other:
- craziness
- jealousy
- feeling victimized
- etc

You can never know. As long as you don't purposely do bad to others, why bothers with hatred? Hatred consumes your heart, brain, energy, etc.

Hatred/love of people is a separate issue to the question of whether or not life is worth living.

I don't see what Occams Razor has to do with this. Explain.

Your question was: So we can decide about others whether or not their life is worth living ??

You know the answer is very simple, so I don't bother to put in detail. Or maybe my understanding on Occam's razor is twisted :p

Hatred/love of people is a separate issue to the question of whether or not life is worth living.

It was my response to his/her statement:

I just believe that if I was hated by everyone I probably wouldn't want to live very much.

It might not be the goal we want but we'll still get there

Yea, because it's a consequence of life.
If death was the goal that would imply a creator, and one that created us for the sole purpose of letting us die again. Nonsense.

Your question was: So we can decide about others whether or not their life is worth living ??

You know the answer is very simple, so I don't bother to put in detail. Or maybe my understanding on Occam's razor is twisted :p

The answer is no. It's indeed a simple question, but I got the impression you would answer it with yes.

It was my response to his/her statement:

Not a very good one, I'm not talking about why people hate i'm just saying that if no one chooses to ever want to be with me at any time i wouldn't want to live.

The answer is no. It's indeed a simple question, but I got the impression you would answer it with yes.

You got wrong impression then.

Yea, because it's a consequence of life.
If death was the goal that would imply a creator, and one that created us for the sole purpose of letting us die again. Nonsense.

Isn't it possible.

Not a very good one, I'm not talking about why people hate i'm just saying that if no one chooses to ever want to be with me at any time i wouldn't want to live.

So your goal in life is to be loved.

So your goal in life is to be loved.

I suppose, yes.

Isn't it possible.

Show me how.

Show me how.

Maybe she's had a virgin birth? :D

I suppose, yes.

That's pretty universal Parcal :)

Many times we only perceive that others hate us when in actuality they really just don't want to bother with us for many other reasons. Unless someone comes out and tells you they hate you never think they do because you are only lying to yourself. Find other people to be with as well, don't always hang with the same crowd, explore what the other people are doing where you live and you'll find a diversity of things to do.

You got wrong impression then.
But:

So people who do no good in life are not worthy to live?

I think so.

Maybe she's had a virgin birth? :D

lol

But:

I answered that for myself, what value do I give to life so that life worth living. According to me, it should bring betterment to others. But what other thinks of what is worth living or whether life is worth living, it depends on themselves. I didn't say I decide for others.

Many times we only perceive that others hate us when in actuality they really just don't want to bother with us for many other reasons. Unless someone comes out and tells you they hate you never think they do because you are only lying to yourself. Find other people to be with as well, don't always hang with the same crowd, explore what the other people are doing where you live and you'll find a diversity of things to do.

People are not all that they are cracked up to be.

I answered that for myself, what value do I give to life so that life worth living. According to me, it should bring betterment to others. But what other thinks of what is worth living or whether life is worth living, it depends on themselves. I didn't say I decide for others.

Well, my question was this:
So we can decide about others whether or not their life is worth living ??
And you answered "yes" (for yourself).
Even though you later denied you would answer "yes".

Well, my question was this:

And you answered "yes" (for yourself).
Even though you later denied you would answer "yes".

I think you have reading comprehension problem. When you asked:

Originally Posted by Enmos
So we can decide about others whether or not their life is worth living ??

The answer was no, and it was not contradictory, because even if I want, I CAN not. I have the judgment of what is worth in life, it doesn't mean I CAN decide for others, as no one have power for that. Your question was whether we can.

I think you have reading comprehension problem. When you asked:



The answer was no, and it was not contradictory, because even if I want, I CAN not. I have the judgment of what is worth in life, it doesn't mean I CAN decide for others, as no one have power for that. Your question was whether we can.

Of course you CAN decide about other people's life, the problem is that you can't act on it if you don't want to spend the rest of your life in prison.

You HAVE decided that people that do no good are not worthy to live. So obviously you think you CAN.

Maybe she's had a virgin birth? :D

Thank you 11parcal :rolleyes: you just had to get back at me for the whole gay thing didn't you?

Hmm, I'd say that your life is pretty shitty if you have to be so dependant on other people in order to decide whether to live or die! When do you become independent?

And what happens if those friends decide they like someone else instead of you? ...you'll just shoot yourself? Geez, how freakin' dependent is that???

Baron Max

So do you advocate individualism and egoism?

"Life is worth living" is a meaningless sentence, as is the opposite "Life isn't worth living".

How do you define meaning?

Thank you 11parcal :rolleyes: you just had to get back at me for the whole gay thing didn't you?

I suppose, yes. :D

How do you define meaning?

I don't, it's pointless.
Meaning is the ultimate example of subjectivity.

I don't, it's pointless.
Meaning is the ultimate example of subjectivity.

So you reject subjectivity entirely?

So you reject subjectivity entirely?

I am if someone is trying to sell an absolute statement with them.

I am if someone is trying to sell an absolute statement with them.

So how do you deal with your existence?

So how do you deal with your existence?

Should I deal with my existence ?

Should I deal with my existence ?

I don't know. Should you?

If you are satisfied with living an unreflective life, then you don't really need to think about the meaning or purpose of life. Its up to you how you want to live your life.

You can either ignore or confront your existence. Most people ignore it. For those who confront it, I want to know how they confront it and why they confront it. I'm not content to simply ignore questions dealing with the why of existence, such as how a person can live a meaningful life. In other words, I am not content to be nothing even though I know that is what I am.

I don't know. Should you?

If you are satisfied with living an unreflective life, then you don't really need to think about the meaning or purpose of life. Its up to you how you want to live your life.
I think we're on different wavelengths. I don't have an unreflective life. Meaning and purpose are personal things, they are not universal. They are what you want them to be, they only exist to oneself.

You can either ignore or confront your existence. Most people ignore it. For those who confront it, I want to know how they confront it and why they confront it. I'm not content to simply ignore questions dealing with the why of existence, such as how a person can live a meaningful life.
I don't think there is a why, a how yes.

In other words, I am not content to be nothing even though I know that is what I am.
You are not nothing, you are awesome. Just like any other living creature. The universe at it's best :)

In other words, I am not content to be nothing even though I know that is what I am.

Well, if that's the case, go do something. Go dig a ditch, then you can tell people that you're a ditch digger ...which is actually something.

But people who sit around complain about not being content shouldn't be allowed to live. So, ...do us all a big favor, huh?

Baron Max

Well, if that's the case, go do something. Go dig a ditch, then you can tell people that you're a ditch digger ...which is actually something.

But people who sit around complain about not being content shouldn't be allowed to live. So, ...do us all a big favor, huh?

Baron Max

So, do you think that people should just do things without thinking about what they are doing then? You appear to be advocating mindlessness.

You should never tell or suggest to someone, either implicitly or explicitly, to kill themselves.

I think we're on different wavelengths. I don't have an unreflective life. Meaning and purpose are personal things, they are not universal. They are what you want them to be, they only exist to oneself.


I don't think there is a why, a how yes.


You are not nothing, you are awesome. Just like any other living creature. The universe at it's best :)

Then what is the how? From the how you may derive a why and vice versa.

Then what is the how? From the how you may derive a why and vice versa.

What ? No.
Knowing the how does not mean you can derive a why. It doesn't even imply there is a why. In fact, I don't even think "why" computes in this case..

Read up on theories of Abiogenesis and Evolution.

You should never tell or suggest to someone, either implicitly or explicitly, to kill themselves.

Why not? He's already admitted that he's worthless ...why should anyone want to keep him around?

Baron Max

If it wasn't worth anything why is everyone trying to sell me stuff?:shrug:

Life is what you make it. The term 'worth more when you're dead' does not apply to living entities.

However, there are people in unbelievable situations that might cause disagreement. Terminally diseased patients & human vegetables come to mind. You find out how much life is worth when you have to 'pull the plug' or give the 'do not resusitate' order for a loved one who can't speak for themselves.

Life is what you make it. The term 'worth more when you're dead' does not apply to living entities.

It doesn't apply to non-living "entities" either :p

Sure it is! It's peachy! :bravo:
However, if you dislike it, there's always the exit.

Why not? He's already admitted that he's worthless ...why should anyone want to keep him around?

Baron Max

I'm not sure that being nothing is the same as being worthless.

He should want to stay around because life is worth living. Yes, meaning is somewhat subjective, but its there.

Meaning is important even if it is artificial.

Hugging your wife and kids is what makes life worth living.

I'm not sure that being nothing is the same as being worthless.
Actually that is exactly what it means :D

I'm not sure that being nothing is the same as being worthless.

He should want to stay around because life is worth living. Yes, meaning is somewhat subjective, but its there.

Meaning is important even if it is artificial.

Well, look at it this way, ....life is also worth living to murderers, rapists, pedophiles, drug addicts, drug pushers, drunks, wife beaters, ......

So, from your perspective, are those lives of some value, i.e., not worthless?

I guess I'm just tired of people constantly seeing ONLY the good in humans, overlooking all the bad, evil humans in the world. To just say "Life is worth living" sounds so nice ...until you begin to think of all those evil people in the world who do such harm.

Baron Max

Well, look at it this way, ....life is also worth living to murderers, rapists, pedophiles, drug addicts, drug pushers, drunks, wife beaters, ......

So, from your perspective, are those lives of some value, i.e., not worthless?

I guess I'm just tired of people constantly seeing ONLY the good in humans, overlooking all the bad, evil humans in the world. To just say "Life is worth living" sounds so nice ...until you begin to think of all those evil people in the world who do such harm.

Baron Max

I was considering the question from a first person perspective. I don't see how you can really consider the question from a third person perspective considering that life is subjective and morals are relative. So yes, life is worth living for murderers etc...

Whether those people desire to live is another debate. This thread is for 1st person perspective.

I was considering the question from a first person perspective.

If that's true, then why did you bother posting the question? If it's your decision, then.... why ask others?

Baron Max

Well, look at it this way, ....life is also worth living to murderers, rapists, pedophiles, drug addicts, drug pushers, drunks, wife beaters, ......

So, from your perspective, are those lives of some value, i.e., not worthless?

I guess I'm just tired of people constantly seeing ONLY the good in humans, overlooking all the bad, evil humans in the world. To just say "Life is worth living" sounds so nice ...until you begin to think of all those evil people in the world who do such harm.

Baron Max

Have you read Pronatalists crap ? :D

Have you read Pronatalists crap?

Who or what is "Pronatalist"?

Baron Max

Who or what is "Pronatalist"?

Baron Max

Oh you'll love him.. :D
It's a member of this site and all he does is promoting birth. He wants as much babies born as possible, at all costs apparently..
I guess you have to read it yourself. He's pretty scary actually.

He's pretty scary actually.

Oh, so his beliefs are just slightly more liberal than most of the members, is that it? Liberalism around here drips like a dick with syphillis!

Baron Max

Oh, so his beliefs are just slightly more liberal than most of the members, is that it? Liberalism around here drips like a dick with syphillis!

Baron Max

He's not liberal. He just thinks humans are perfect and superior to anything else.
Never mind though :p

If that's true, then why did you bother posting the question? If it's your decision, then.... why ask others?

Baron Max

Thinking about an issue from a first person perspective does not mean that only one person is thinking and talking about it. People can discuss issues from a first person perspective. I asked the question because I want to see what other people think.

drips like a dick with syphillis!

Sorry Baron, you probably have gonorrhea (aka the clap) not syphilis. And get that treated! If not for your sake then for Fluffy and Philbert. And have them tested too.

Oh you'll love him.. :D
It's a member of this site and all he does is promoting birth. He wants as much babies born as possible, at all costs apparently..
I guess you have to read it yourself. He's pretty scary actually.

Well it does seem easier to let human babies push out naturally, than to push them back in.

And a natural function of human life, is to produce more human life.

Well it does seem easier to let human babies push out naturally, than to push them back in.
Oh was that your argument ? :rolleyes:

And a natural function of human life, is to produce more human life.
And so we should, as mindless drones, do what we were programmed to do ?
But wait.. you are not just saying let people carry out their natural bodily functions, you actually want them to reproduce faster than they would naturally.
Sick.

Seems like we should just start cloning them prontalist. Be more efficient, to get the numbers you are looking for, anyway.

Oh was that your argument ? :rolleyes:

One of many, an expression of favoring natural elegance there.

And so we should, as mindless drones, do what we were programmed to do ?

Yes, in the matter of human reproduction that benefits so many people who couldn't be born otherwise. Keep the door to life wide open. Let the womb be a "busy place." Respect the body's natural reproductive rhythms, and not obstruct its natural attempts to acheive pregnancy.

But wait.. you are not just saying let people carry out their natural bodily functions, you actually want them to reproduce faster than they would naturally.
Sick.[/QUOTE]

Yes, reproduce faster, depending on what you mean by "naturally." I do think a larger proportion of the world would enjoy becoming sexual active, and so more people may actually be ready to marry while younger. I do think more people should be welcome to start reproducing closer to age of puberty, marrying as young as 16, 17, 18, 19, more natural teenage pregnancies, within responsible marriage of course. Some people actually are ready to marry before age 20, with their parent's blessing. And let the babies keep on coming until they just don't come anymore.

While of course mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public, babies should be moved on to solid food as they become ready, so that mothers can move on towards conceiving the next child.

Either you think you are some sort comic troll or you are a scary freak.
I haven't decided yet.

Wow. Let me get this straight.

So women should be making babies from their first period to menopause?

I mean that is what you are suggesting, isn't it?

Wow. Let me get this straight.

So women should be making babies from their first period to menopause?

I mean that is what you are suggesting, isn't it?

Yes, that's what he wants.. humans into infinity, women degraded to breeding machines.

Yes, that's what he wants.. humans into infinity, women degraded to breeding machines.

What?

What?

Yes.. That's what Pronatalist is promoting.

Wow. Let me get this straight.

So women should be making babies from their first period to menopause?

I mean that is what you are suggesting, isn't it?

Cloning? Cloning doesn't appear to be the way that God or nature would have for humans to be breeding.

One practical argument for continuance of making babies, "the old fashioned way," and not so much by cloning, is if we are to just let the burgeoning billions of babies push their way into the world naturally, welcoming populations to swell naturally to accomodate so many, don't you suppose it would help, if the people generally look unique from one another? If we had some mad scientist proposing we clone massive sudden "armies" of people, wouldn't clones look identical, and thus seemingly excessive and "redundant?" Does armies of "redundant" looking people, help along my pronatalist arguments? I think the property of so many human bodies being uniquely identifiable, having faces that look somewhat different, makes it just a bit easier for people to see the immense and sacred value of each and every human life. Yes, there are natural "identical twins," but they seem to be fairly rare.

Also, were the additional billions to arrive "suddenly," don't you suppose it could be a massive sudden "shock" to the system? Already, some places throughout the world have certain housing and water shortages. More people is great, but were the people to come gradually, as with the old natural way, then there should more easily be ample time to prepare and ADAPT. When people have babies, they have an idea that within 2 decades or so, they shall somehow need for additional housing to be built by then, well unless they think it would be wonderful and cozy, for their children to themselves be having still more children, underneath their own roof? Sure, why not have several pregnant women at once, under the same roof, provided one's home is "big?" I'm not saying that children must always move out of their parents home, before taking a mate and starting to breed themselves, as obviously cost concerns and other delays could sometimes cause children to start their families sometimes while still in a parent's home bedroom, as I saw somebody I know do for a short while. One of the daughters of a family at my old Church, married, and had a baby, before she moved out of her Dad's home. But that should be quite understandable, as it was a family of 8 children, 2 having already moved out, a custom built large house for their large family. But then they took the house next door, so I suspect her Dad had a hand in helping them to get such a nicely located house, waiting until a neighbor was ready to sell.

Yes, I am suggesting the natural flow of human life, unhindered. Of course there should be some restraint upon how fast more and more people are added to the world, but I only expect it to be the natural lax restraits I see in my Bible. Marry first, and take responsibility for and care for and provide for and love all one's children. Puberty to menopause? Pretty much, and I am for more people marrying young. But many people won't know who their mates are to be, at the age of puberty. And probably many of them, and/or their parents, may, especially in developed countries, want to wait a few years, before plunging into marriage. Yes, I do think more people should marry young, as somebody on the Philippines prolife forum I often visit said, during their "raging hormones" years, and not waiting so long as to already be losing interest in sex. But that could be age 17, 19, early 20s. Yes, I do think some "teenage pregnancies" are quite legitimate and understandable, as many are to people age 18 or 19, who happen to be married.

If "true love waits," does it wait, and wait, and wait? Didn't Newton say that to every force, there is an equal and opposite reaction, speaking of physics? Well if people then must "wait" until marriage for sex, then the "equal and opposite reaction" would seem to be, that "waiting" until marriage for sex, sometimes can also "pull" marriage to occur at younger ages. That's fine, if they are ready and know who to marry. I do think a larger porportion of the world's "huge" and growing population, may enjoy being sexual active, if they do so responsibly, meaning to commit properly into marriage, and promise not to leave their mate, and not to run off on their duty to help with any children that may naturally result.

I am quite concerned that the awful myriad of side-effects of shoddy experimental Big Pharma contraceptive potions and poisons, is being seriously under-reported. What is menopause for anyway? Maybe that's nature's signal, that there comes a time, after faithfully and responsibly reproducing, that it's "enough" and it's the younger generations turn now to do the reproducing.

Whatever happened to babies happening when they happen? When I was younger, I thought the best method of "birth control" would likely be that which seemed the most convenient and natural. Aha! There is a most natural and elegant method. How about, the "no method" method. What could be more natural, than welcoming babies to come as they come? The heathen worldly people want "unlimited sex without the 'burden' of 'unwanted' children." To which the more moral or spiritually-minded person may counter, "Well how about unlimited sex welcoming any babies that naturally come along?" More people to experience life. Welcoming the natural flow of human life, or "all the children God gives." No need for married couples to argue on how many children to have, if they decide to trust God for the number, or however many is however many. It worked well for our ancestors. What could be a more natural and elegant means of naturally "spacing" babies, than an already occupied womb, and natural breastfeeding until babies can move on to more solid food?

Yes, that's what he wants.. humans into infinity, women degraded to breeding machines.

Actually, I apparently was not the first, to think of such ideas. Humans into infinity?

Some time ago while googling the internet, I found some painting, of a couple of humans embraced upon the ground into the recognizable lovemaking coitus position upon the ground, and out from behind them streams a narrow stream of people, which in the distance naturally mushrooms and blossoms into a vast and endless crowd all around them, perhaps possibly watching them make love.

Sort of like some Adam & Eve representation, which over the generations, eventually "explodes" into the "burgeoning billions" of people now alive today.

I thought it actually a rather beautiful painting, but if I had one, where should it go, it being a sexually erotic portrayal? In the bathroom or bedroom? Would anybody think it a good painting to buy and display somewhere? If so, where?

And why is human breeding supposedly degrading? Isn't that more what the contraceptive pushing pushes for? A lack of respect for human procreation. Motherhood is actually a very honorable occupation. Isn't there a saying that the hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world?

And why are women supposedly degraded into breeding machines anyway? Ye old double standard? What of the fathers? Are they also "breeding machines," or is it just "macho" for men to have baby after baby, and only the mothers are to blame?

No.

Life is worth living if you have a goal in mind. If not, then life become boring, sad, slow, pointless.

Some days you feel like a nut,

Some days you don't.