http://www.project-syndicate.org/series/series_text.php4?id=1208&lang=1&setcookie=1

Despite the announcement of plans to create a European army along with France, Belgium, and Luxembourg, Germany is less relevant in both European and world politics than it was before the Iraq war.

-The country can no longer play the role of transatlantic mediator between France and America.
- It can forget about US support in its campaign to gain a permanent seat in the UN Security Council.
- Instead of forging a "third way" for Europe's left with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Chancellor Gerhard Schröder needs Blair to plead his case with President George W. Bush, who feels personally betrayed by the Chancellor's conduct in the run-up to the war.

So, with Baghdad's fall, Schröder began to send conciliatory signals to Washington and London. Schröder implicitly began to welcome regime change in Iraq. During a Franco-German-Russian summit in St. Petersburg, he explicitly refrained from criticizing the US and Britain. "I don't want to speak about the past," he emphasized, "we should think about how the military victory can be turned to help the entire region."

Lol, how fast they can change their mind. Read on...

If Germany wants to increase its diplomatic weight, it must increase its defense spending.

Indeed.

For those people that keep on quoting how incredibly bad the U.S. economy is doing, well, take a look at this:

http://www.iht.com/articles/97425.html

In Germany, deflation is drawing closer. The largest economy in Europe, Germany's, is already technically in a recession, its second in three years, as economic output turned negative over the last two quarters. The government said Friday that prices rose just 0.7 percent in May from a year earlier - not far from an outright decline in prices.

The surge in the value of the euro against the dollar this year has added a deflationary drag to the economy of the 12 countries sharing the currency, making their goods more expensive in the U.S. export market and wiping out the stimulatory effects of previous rate cuts by the ECB.

Yes.

irrelevance could be the ultimate bliss, look at the french, the angry muslims are too occupied with the millitary relevance of the bush regime to consider bombing irrelevant paris. So plz. let us europeans stay irrelevant, we don't want part of your dirty war. You fight your own summoned demons...

Besides Micael Mertis is a former advisor of Helmut Kohl (talking about corporate fat-cats, this one was REALLY FAT), probably mr. Mertis is just juggling arguments to lobby for increased millitary spending, he could as well be on the payroll for Daimler-Chrysler to write his BS.

Jerrek, the USA are not doing much better, you know... Even worse. Germany at least -- primary -- tries to solve their own problems. ;)

Of course the answer is yes, Germany is on it's way to being 'just a province' in Europe.

I agree with Vortexx. Since when is irrelevency a bad thing? I wouldn't mind living in a number of "irrelevent" countries.

Originally posted by aghart
Of course the answer is yes, Germany is on it's way to being 'just a province' in Europe.

Such as Iraq and England are on the way to being 'just a province' of the USA ? (no irony, just a question...)

We don't have provinces. :rolleyes:

OK, states... and Puerto-Rico :cool:

jerrek ,shame on you ..........damn little euro-hater :D

Yeah! Quit kicking them when they are down!!:D

I just can't believe the lengths people will go to in order to carry out their grudges. Germany will never be irrelevant as long as Americans want what they make: Porsche, Mercedes, and a few good handguns, as I recall.

The only thing that bugs me about Germany is that Germans have, historically, held themselves in an intellectually elite class, separate from the rest of the world. Even Hegel pauses to praise Germany now and then.

And it really bugs me when people make a point out of justifying that elitism.

It kind of reminds me of the young junkie calling the grizzled old addict washed up.

I mean, we might criticize ideas of Fatherland (it was Fatherland in Germany, right?), but between Bush's fundamentalist Christian speeches, the growing Homeland paranoia, and cultural elitism growing stronger daily, it seems that the US wants to go where Germany has been.

Yeah, the old addict is washed up. Of course, he's survived more than the young junkie knows to imagine.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

and a few good handguns OK you have a point there.

very correct ,tiassa

ps : fatherland (Vaterland) is the right word

You're viewing Germany through a pair of binoculars. Zooming in on this or that. Germany has an excellent infrastructure and a relatively liberal highly educated population. Also, Germans tend to have a higher tolerance for other cultures and in my view are among the most traveled people on the planet (unlike most Americans who consider a trip to Vegas, NY, LA or Florida and adventure!). Germans also tend to be more polite people when abroad. And more quite.

As for economies I always refer back to the “Tiger-Economies”. How many economists lost their pants when Japan crashed.
1988 = We MUST change to be like the Japanese!!!!!!!!
1990 = We must not follow the Japanese model!!!!!!!!!!
Come on, no one except maybe Warren Buffet has a f*cking clue! Remember that article about a program that randomly picked stock and beat most analysis for the year.

Anyway, in general Germans work less hours per year and take more vacation time while Americans work more hours a year and own a second car or bigger house. It seems some sad people want to see Germany, France, (and maybe W. Europe in general) get the shaft because they didn’t support that idiot Bushy. To bad we won’t be here in a couple hundred years to read that the downfall of USA hegemony began with an idiot president Bushy. Small seemly innocuous actions can have unforeseen consequences. When Romans let the headcount into the army to defend the Republic, who would have thought that 2 generations later those defenders would led to the fall of that same Republic? Do you think an idiot like Bush has any ideas of the consequences of his actions? No way.

So in summary don’t worry about Germany it will be fine. Worry about the USA because it may not be so fine......

You have got to be kidding me!!!! Germany to become irrelevant because of bad relations with Bush? Bush has at most 1 term left.
How long do you think this stupid PR nonsense will last? Especially that against France? I bet Napoleon is itching to stick his foot up Bush's ass for insinuating France's cowardice for what? Putting its own economic interests ahead of Bush's?
:bugeye:

Back to Germany: It has better infrastructure than any European country and the biggest economy in Europe. And here is something these "experts" are failing to consider: Closer relations between France and Germany. This serves to strengthen the EU. Britain can't join because its influence will diminish. If Russia keeps trying to get into the Union and seeing as how Bush and co are foolishly grouping France, Russia and Germany into a so called "axis", well....
:m:

An economic union between those three countries and the lesser European ones is NOT in the USA interest. Especially as a successful and harmonious economic union will lead to a military union under the right leadership.

Even still, Germany is one of Europe's premier powers regardless of its lack of influence in the UN; ironically the same organization that Bush's incomprehensible lack of foresight is undermining

Originally posted by SuperFudd
Yeah! Quit kicking them when they are down!!:D
Is it your only sentence? :rolleyes:

"A wolf, a wolf, a wolf..." no more credible!

jerreck always abandons his threads. cant take the heat? cmon fight back! prove your point of view by rebutting stuff. one liners aint good enough!

Is Jarrek getting more irrelevant? ;)

Dee Cee

More?

That would imply ... uh ... yeah.

Never mind ... I'll figure it out myself ;)

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

;) :D :D