As the body bags containing the remains of America's precious warriors, who's combat tours to Afghanistan and Iraq have been abruptly terminated, continue to arrive at Dover AFB on their way to their home towns and Arlington cemetary to be buried with full military honors, ( interesting, huh, the US media doesn't show these scenes anymore. ). We begin to wonder if this CRUSADE against those that do not wish us well, people that wear funny turbans and burka's ( 1+ billion Muslims ) is worth all the pain and anguish American parents are feeling as our Whitehouse TERRORIST pursues his policy of US hegemony and 21st millennium NEW WORLD ORDER with a twist of Texas sized imperialism.

Last month the US threatened Iran for "interferring in the politics of Iraq ( i. e. interferring in the installation of a US (s)elected PUPPET GOVERNMENT in Iraq ). This month the US begins to kill Iraqi's that are suspected of the same "crime!"

After taking out their disenchantment on US sodiers over the past 45 days, today the Iraqi's decided to start taking it out on a few British soldiers as well.

Still Bush and his English poodle - Toadie Blair, don't seem to GET THE MESSAGE, as their respective governments begin to put together the puzzle of lies and deceptions these two would-be warriors pieced together to get their people to back their BLOOD FOR OIL war against the Iraqi people.

One has to wonder just how many more US/British casualties are going to be represented BOTTOM LINE before the US and England begin to devise their respective exit strategies from Iraq as well as Afghanistan theatures.

Abdulla....

There's a similar partisan division on the possibility of U.S. military action against Iraq's neighbor, Iran. Fifty-six percent of Americans would favor striking Iran to prevent it from developing nuclear arms; that includes 72 percent of Republicans, compared to 45 percent of Democrats.

What is it with America? Do you really need a Vietnam every thirty years to remind you that your only Human?
Bug out now.
Dee Cee

If they try to draft me, its Canada I go! I am not going to die so some idiot in the white house can get rich off oil! Its perfect: claim any mineral rich country is doing “terrorist” activity then invade them, you will have the full support of your fear pumps, moronic public.

Cover Your Hair, by Nicholas D. Kristof (NY Times - registration required) (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/24/opinion/24KRIS.html) Still no luck in my quest to help the administration find Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. But meanwhile, I'm getting the impression that America fought Saddam, and the Islamic fundamentalists won.

For a glimpse of the Islamic state that Iraq may be evolving into, consider the street execution of an infidel named Sabah Ghazali.

Under Saddam Hussein, Christians like Mr. Ghazali, 41, were allowed to sell alcohol and were protected from Muslim extremists. But lately extremists have been threatening to kill anyone selling alcohol. One day last month, two men walked over to Mr. Ghazali as he was unlocking his shop door and shot him in the head ? the second liquor store owner they had killed that morning.

An iron curtain of fundamentalism risks falling over Iraq, with particularly grievous implications for girls and women. President Bush hopes that Iraq will turn into a shining model of democracy, and that could still happen. But for now it's the Shiite fundamentalists who are gaining ground.

Already, almost every liquor shop in southern Iraq appears to have been forcibly closed. Here in Basra, Islamists have asked Basra University (unsuccessfully) to separate male and female students, and shopkeepers have put up signs like: "Sister, cover your hair." Many more women are giving in to the pressure and wearing the hijab head covering.

"Every woman is afraid," said Sarah Alak, a 22-year-old computer engineering student at Basra University. Ms. Alak never used to wear a hijab, but after Saddam fell her father asked her to wear one on the university campus, "just to avoid trouble."

Extremists also threatened Basra's cinemas for showing pornography (like female knees). So the city's movie theaters closed down for two weeks and reopened only after taking down outside posters and putting up banners, like this one outside the Watani Cinema: "We do not deal with immoral movies." Bringing freedom and dignity to Iraqis everywhere ....

I'm sure they're looking forward to Starbuck's and Red Lobster.

I know something more should go here for all that, but I'm too tired.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

While America has great plans for converting the Middle East into another Apcot center with all sorts of handpicked "characters" bringing MADE IN AMERICA joy to the people, I suspect that this Disneyland will be one that America will never forget.

Firstly, Iraq is not Afghanistan with its uneducated religious zealots suceptible to all the animal impulses of hate and 1,000 years of kayos.

Iraq is a 6,000 year old civilization with a highly educated and very sophisticated society. It will NEVER allow the infidel's to come into the country dropping food packets, while Apache helicopter gunships fire their hellfire/TOW antitank missiles and take over their world.

America can expect to see thousands of their soldiers sent home in body bags and extreme hatred for everything American to prevail in Iraq.

A this point in time America's corruption and immorality is hardly anything the Islamic world envies. Yes, McDonalds/Pizza Hut, et. al. ( obese people ) and Las Vegas ( moral corruption ) and Enron & WorldComm ( thieves in 3-piece suits masquerading as businessmen ) and even our WHITEHOUSE TERRORIST ( an ex-cocaine head and "political affirmative action" graduate from Yale ) seems the last thing the Islamic world covets.

Better get those fuel/hydrogen cells perfected America because the price of Middle Eastern oil ( stolen or otherwise ) will be more expensive than Americans ever suspected.

Abdulla....

Maybe you can ask the 100's of thousands of people killed in Iraq by their own government what they think of Red Lobster and Starbucks...oh yeah that's right you can't because they were taken from their families and killed and put in mass graves by the government that was supposed to represent them.

Billy don't talk B.S because it was the US who gave Saddam $100's of millions to do the killing. Just as long as the oil status quo was in place. Saddams worst human rights abuses were in the 80's and guess who defended him? Why aren't you talking about the 1 million dead because of the sanctions? Or the 7000 who died in the war? Please

Dam right Nico!

Damned ignorance makes me sick. Conservatives always seem to forget the 80's and Saddam, they seem to forget that the Americans gave Saddam WMD, Anthrax. It was the US who funded the war machine that was Iraq. How many children got cancer because of DU shells? Why does the US support tyrannical dictators like China, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Egpyt? All this Iraq thing was B.S, and PNAC B.S. :mad:

Originally posted by nico
How many children got cancer because of DU shells?We don't truly know, and neither do you.

:m: Peace.

That's why it's a question, I want to know. I just know that they did.

Methinks you missed the point.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by goofyfish
We don't truly know, and neither do you.

:m: Peace.

See: http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/Mar97/iraq.html

Originally posted by Abdullathebomber
Can we make an educated guess? Unfortunately, we cannot.

While DU is radioactive and chemotoxic, and has been blamed both for illnesses in allied Gulf war veterans and in Iraqi civilians, there have been no conclusive government or independent studies as yet.

:m: Peace.

We may never know how many people got cancer or disease for the toxic effects of air born DU oxide particles from used DU ammunition, but that had nothing to do with the point of the thread. The point is that Iraq and many other nations that are now problems for the USofA (or claimed to be problems) have all been such because we the USofA made them @#$%ed up to begin with!

Originally posted by goofyfish
Unfortunately, we cannot.

While DU is radioactive and chemotoxic, and has been blamed both for illnesses in allied Gulf war veterans and in Iraqi civilians, there have been no conclusive government or independent studies as yet.

:m: Peace.

Interesting, some 30+ years later the US is still debating the validity of AGENT ORANGE claims by ex-US solidiers - forget the Vietnamese population. :(

Even 500,000+ cases of Spina biffida, chronic asthma, lung, kidney, bladder & stomach cancer and toxins still flowing from mothers milk in the Mekong Delta area where the largest part of the US' 19 million gallons of Agent Orange was sprayed on the Vietnamese people have eluded US scientists/doctors who are in no hurry to have the US sued for reparations.

C 'mon Goofyfish, you know you wouldn't fill your kids sandbox with DU - so cool it! :cool:

Abdulla....

Thanks for spewing more unsupported and unrelated facts onto the page - I'm certain to take your word for it. If you spent more time on the construction of posts that were compelling because of their logic rather than trying to stir emotions through the use of “creative” rhetoric, I might be interested.

:m: Peace.

I want a DU bullet souvenir, that would be cool! What does Agent Orange have to do with DU?

WCF,
Both are/were used by the US military on a widespread scale, both are strongly suspected of having serious deleterious effects on human and environmental health, and neither has had independent peer-reviewed studies carried out on their long-term effects, despite the fact that large numbers of soldiers have reported serious health problems which correspond with when they were exposed to both.

That does not mean they are related to each other, if agent orange turn out to have no harmful effect found after legitimate scientific study would that mean DU is the same?

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
That does not mean they are related to each other, if agent orange turn out to have no harmful effect found after legitimate scientific study would that mean DU is the same?

Amazing!

Absoultely amazing!

Yassir, these keyboard warriors like petri-pest :p WellCookFetus here on SciForums, who make little of all the chemical and radiological human and ecological disasters the US has precipitated around the world.

Reminds me of WTC.

Oooh what a presumtious world to attack them Christain God fearing, God loving, do gooder American's! :rolleyes:

As Bush asked after WTC: "Why do they hate us?"

Then answering himself: "Oh, because we're FREE!" :rolleyes:

Bull SH!T!

But 6,750,000 dead Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians who fell to US B-52 bombers, napalm, cluster bombs "Daisey Cutters," and conventional munitions do not register in the American psychic.

6,000 dead civilians massacred in the attack on Panama to arrest Manuel Noriega, in violation to international law - Well, humm, oh yeah, who cares, WE WON, YES, YES, WE WON!

In Greneda 450 Cuban construction workers fighting with picks and shovel's and light arms against America's finest - Oh well, humm, we won, yeah - yeah, WE WON, WE WON!

Enuff to make a good man puke!

Abdulla....

Here Petri-pest, read up on AGENT ORANGE & FAMILY...

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/agentorange032102.cfm

Well, it wasnt agent orange per se, it was the dioxins which the USA apparently was aware of but didnt think necessary to deal with, because of hte urgenices of the war situation. They already got sued by families of people handling the stuff who were exposed. And they won.

there is hten the problem of legitimate scientific study, and hte apparent unwillingness of anyone to fund them. At least just look at all these peopel with complaints, no need to check specifically for DU, jsut find out whats wrong with them.

So what if the US gave him those weapons, they are guilty also! But it certainly does nothing to Justify the killing of those innocent people... and let's not forget those sanctions where imposed by the entire international community (The UN) not simply the US... it's funny how when you spew mis-information it's okay but when I give my opinion it's "conservative BS"... you're a joke!

Originally posted by Billy Ocean
... and let's not forget those sanctions where imposed by the entire international community (The UN) not simply the US... it's funny how when you spew mis-information it's okay but when I give my opinion it's "conservative BS"... you're a joke!

Time and time again the US had vetoed any attempts to lift the sanctions on Iraq. But our arrogance and pride would not let the international community get what it wanted. After all, whoever said America stands for democracy.

America stands for coercion economically and militarily to get what it needs. Beat up the country or trap it shut with debt.

Immediately when our interests are threatened, we take up the “humanitarian” flag and go kill a dictator. But when our security or interests are not threatened we let the dictator do what he does best. We ignore the fact of ethnic cleansings and genocide in Africa.

We as Americans should be ashamed of the image we are trying to present to the world but while we are obviously doing selfish deeds.

Iraq is a 6,000 year old civilization with a highly educated and very sophisticated society

by gad i have to agree! of course shit went downhill after old moh and his buddy allah hit the streets of baghdad. old glories were almost recaptured later during the times of the infidel saddam but alas even that did not last. now all is dark...

allahu akbar! allahu akbar! allahu akbar!

Spookz ........ if you're gonna talk about things in the times of Muhammad and Islam , please be sure to actually know something about it .

It didnt quite went bad as an effect of Muhammad or Islam , on the contrary , first of all an entire written and highly superior language was developed peoples still cant figure out .......

Im thinking you are confusing things with Martin Luther and his peoples ...........

our CRUISE BOMBERS

really? how the hell do you get camel dung to explode anyway? perhaps i better join old yasser's school too

:D

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon phones Arafat and asks why he can't stop the violence, to which Arafat replies:

'Stop the violence? I can't even stop my lips from moving.'

Iraq "had no links to al-Qaeda" (BBC) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3027234.stm) A United Nations committee says it has found no evidence of a connection between Iraq and the al-Qaeda terror network.

The UN terrorism committee has released a draft report on al-Qaeda and remnants of the Taliban from Afghanistan.

Nowhere does the document mention that Baghdad may have served as a support or safe-haven for supporters of Osama bin Laden.

In the run-up to the United States invasion of Iraq, US leaders had said Saddam Hussein's government had had contacts with al-Qaeda.

"Nothing has come to our notice that would indicate links," said Michael Chandler, the committee's chief investigator.

"That doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist. But from what we've seen the answer is no" . . . . I'm starting to think that Bush could seriously be facing charges by the time this is all over. I seriously wonder if the American people really are so apathetic.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

'Stop the violence? I can't even stop my lips from moving.'

http://www.thetrukstop.com/truksludge/emoticons/lmao.gif

Things appear to be getting (ha!) out of hand in Iraq. Death on the Road to Basra (BBC) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3025800.stm) recounts a story that will otherwise be lost in this messy history; a young boy run down by an American convoy while stupidly trying to sell things to the Americans.

There are those who will look at this incidnet and claim that judgment is not called for. One incident, a stupid Iraqi boy, and American troops with a job to do--it seems clear-cut. Yet what this perspective does not count is the cumulative weight of an occupation that is going south faster than geese in a Washington winter. The US soldiers look nervous. They are wearing full body armour and carry rifles ready for action.

I thought the Americans came here to protect us and give us security, instead there is death and more suffering

"We can't take any chances," one soldier tells me, sweating profusely.

I engage him in conversation. He tells me he is from New York, his name is Al and he is married with three children.

"I've been in the Gulf for five months and I'm tired of all of this" he says. "We have become a target now. All I want to do is to go back to my family."

As he is talking he scans the crowd that has surrounded us. He is a worried man.

'Why?'

With grief comes anger and, soon, the young boy's relatives are hurling abuse at the Americans.

They are Shia Muslims, persecuted by Saddam Hussein. After the war, many of them welcomed the coalition forces but now they blame the Americans.

"I thought they came here to protect us and give us security," the dead boy's mother says.

"Instead there's death and more suffering."

She looks at the body of her son, which has been covered by a blanket. Tears run down her face. Another woman kneels down, she is frustrated.

"I can't understand - why has this happened?" she asks.

A few minutes later, the boy's father lifts the body into the boot of a car. The father is crying as he drives off to the hospital morgue.For some Iraqis--perhaps many--this latest tragedy is merely another day in the American-occupied world. What many Americans do not understand is that our reconstruction starts out with two strikes against it. The British were praised for their early restoration of water services at Umm Qasr, yet this praise was premature at the time, and it was also pointed out that for many Iraqis, the water was a side issue; while the system had been atrocious, it was at least working before the invasion started. In the early going (initial looting) the BBC quoted Iraqi civilians pointing out that under Hussein there had, at least, been law and order, and while we may think this perverse, we might view a comparative juxtaposition: in the 1980s, seeking "protection" from evil musicians, Americans turned to Congress; Senator Al Gore held hearings concerning the nature of heavy metal. It seems a far stretch to leap from Twisted Sister and 2 Live Crew (the inheritors of Heavy Metal's bad name in the public fight) to the sacrifices of human dignity implied by pro-Hussein nostalgia, but the underlying device is the same: principle is traded for immediate and real comfort. People strive to make the best they can figure out of bad situations.

In the meantime, as attacks against Coalition troops increase in frequency and daring, we see the real possibility of the feared quagmire setting in. The Coalition sent how many troops and it's still not enough? We're looking at a million, perhaps a million and a half soldiers taking rotations through Iraq before this is done, it seems. And as conditions get worse to include the apparent abduction and execution of American soldiers, the patrols will only get stronger and more direct. The situation has the potential to scale out of hand. BBC's Paul Reynolds (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3021528.stm) offers an article that I can't figure whether or not to take seriously.It consists of setting up political structures, drawing up a new constitution, holding elections and then hoping that the result will be a Western friendly and oil-rich government in Baghdad.

If it is, the next stage should be easy.

The US will reach an understanding with the new government (perhaps with some kind of defence pact) and its troops will depart.

If it is hostile, the Americans will probably have to leave anyway. But it could be messy.The article bears the title, Is there an exit strategy for Iraq? I have trouble taking it seriously because of the above-cited passage. It's one of those useless stories that is designed to recap the situation in support of its title; there's nothing useful there, only the blindingly obvious assertion of what is supposed to happen, and some minor but indefinite discussion thereof.

The signs are not comforting; the Fedayeen is blamed for the abduction and execution of two Americans; the British report that six military police died in an apparently spontaneous outburst of civic violence; while the resistance does not seem entirely orchestrated and, in military terms is more of a headache than anything else, it would appear that the Iraqis are getting ready to expel the invaders by force.

Which creates an ironic sidebar: Bin Laden is getting what he wanted vis a vis American troops in Saudi Arabia; Hussein might live long enough to see his people bounce the invaders. From a spin perspective, there's not much of a pretty face for the Bush administration to put on this one.

As a question on behalf of all who strive for peace: So, given that all we have left justifying the Iraqi Bush War that is not considered nefarious is the "human issue", if the best thing to do for the Iraqi people, in order to spare them a protracted war against the US, is to pack our men and women up and bring them home (now, please!) should we?

Can the US defeat the tyrant and lose the war? Is that an acceptable outcome, or do our troops have to go down "Lynch-style"? (e.g. - Go down shooting, or at least hope the Washington Post says they did.)

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by nico
Damned ignorance makes me sick. .....

I'm sure you're fully informed.

I'm sure you're fully informed.And I'm sure that's relevant.

Does it not bother you, Yaya, when someone's stupidity gets someone else hurt or killed?

How about when it's not just ignorance, but willful apathy?

Isn't it scary that as many as 75% of Americans support the war while only 13% of the prime fighting age can find Iraq on a map (http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/)? (I'm sure that number has gone up now that the war has taken place; it's probably around 15 or 16% now.)

Whether it's the history lending to a current event (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=20001) or people desperately trying to forget the browbeating Bush gave WMD's and Iraq/Al-Qaeda there comes a point where people's ignorance of issues lends to their support of wrong things happening in the world.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

this is a sample quiz (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/geosurvey/templates/question_1.html) pulled from Tissas link to CNN, its a fast an very easy quiz, 20/20 or close should be no problem.

my point is that none of us has all the facts, which i think is very relevant.

this topic is too complicated to reduce it to "damn ignorance" or a boy being run over by a tank.

that only 13% of americans can locate iraq is shocking but it's not relevant to whether the war is right or wrong.

in response to your last paragraph: what makes you think if people were less ignorant they would agree with you?

Tiassa

In context, over 40% of Iraq is illiterate compared with 5% in the US.

Originally posted by (Q)
Tiassa

In context, over 40% of Iraq is illiterate compared with 5% in the US.

Tiassa, talking about American's ignorance of their adversaries - you take the cake! :rolleyes:

Contrary to America's ignorace, Re: Iraqi's and Palestinian's.

These people are some of the most highly educated people in the Middle East.

Why do you think there were over 100,000 Palestinian's running Kuwait for the Al Shaba ( rapist of Filipino domestic workers ) gangsters prior to Gulf war I?

Iraqi's have more history in their little finger that the mongrel's of the US in their entire bodies! :eek:

You might send us your URL source - OK?

AbdullaTheBomber*

PS: It's interesting to see that political "affirmative action" has brought one of your 5%'ers to the US presidency! :eek:

*Graduate of the Arafat Institute of applied physics.

In context, over 40% of Iraq is illiterate compared with 5% in the US.

I wonder the ethnical make-over of that 5% .

In anyways Q , what is your point ? I thought this was about ignorance , not about the mastered technique of reading . Besides , Arabic is alot harder than English , lol .

Also ........ no thanks to the policy in Iraq no ....... Even Iran has higher rates doofus .

Jihad/Allahs

In anyways Q , what is your point ? I thought this was about ignorance

Again, I’m not surprised you’re unable to understand the difference: if you’re illiterate then you’re ignorant to the fundamentals. And although you are obviously not illiterate, you most certainly show an abundance of ignorance. So maybe you are right after all. :D

Besides , Arabic is alot harder than English , lol .

That is absurd in the extreme and the lamest excuse I’ve heard in a long time. Are you stating that the illiteracy of Iraq is a result of the language being too hard to learn? Do you not realize there are more difficult languages to learn besides Arabic?

Also ........ no thanks to the policy in Iraq no ....... Even Iran has higher rates doofus .

That’s not true – Iran is about 15% illiterate. Afghanistan on the other hand is somewhere around 70% illiterate.

You should check your facts before shooting off your mouth… doofus.

my point is that none of us has all the facts, which i think is very relevant. Well, we're in agreement there. What it means, however, we may have some difference concerning.

Many Americans who supported the war believed that there was a fundamental tie between Al Qaeda and Iraq; some of the American soldiers interviewed by the international press have gone so far as to say they're getting revenge for 9/11 in Iraq. Belief in this proposed link between Al Qaeda and Iraq overlooked certain obvious points, including the fact that bin Laden would rather have Hussein's head on a pike on the outskirts of glorious Baghdad. Ignorance of the actual dynamic in the Muslim world on this occasion became something akin to an old slam against blacks and Asians, "They all look the same to me."

And because of that ignorance, some people supported the Iraqi Bush Adventure as part of the War on Terror.in response to your last paragraph: what makes you think if people were less ignorant they would agree with you? Because their increased knowledge would overcome certain superstitions that compel them to blindly make certain mistakes.

If we can say that X people will die tomorrow of injustice if life simply goes on as it does, a certain number of things can be said. If we examine the number of people dying of injustice in "my world" or "their world" (Y):

- If my way is wrong, X = Y
- If my way is right, Y < X
- If "their" way is wrong, X <= Y
- If "their" way is right, X < Y

A question arises, of course, of how far into the future such a proposition can hold in any one situation. Eventually something will happen to alter the course of events, and what the sums of X or Y are becomes a difficult question if we look at, say, a twenty-year policy.

So in addition to knowledge, one specific idea is necessary: that human beings, capable as we are of transcending certain natural patterns, need not declare ourselves in mortal competition with one another. This comes when one realizes that we are not merely Christians, Jews, Muslims, &c.; not just Americans and Israelis and Iraqis and Tibetans &c; when one realizes that we are the human species ... well, if the species is to thrive according to natural selection, and if the species is aware of the idea of natural selection, why not manipulate the idea in our favor? We can drive whole species extinct ... is that not enough? By what logic do we cut our neighbors' throats? There is no logic to it. That's the key. None of this is necessary. Tomorrow is as much what we the people of the human species choose as yesterday or today. Admittedly, just how the votes would be balanced is its own question, but there is no law in the Universe that says this is the way it must be.

Knowledge breaks superstitions, and when people break certain superstitions leading to mortal conflict, well ... I have to admit that they will sound a little more like me.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

Many Americans who supported the war believed that there was a fundamental tie between Al Qaeda and Iraq; some of the American soldiers interviewed by the international press have gone so far as to say they're getting revenge for 9/11 in Iraq. Belief in this proposed link between Al Qaeda and Iraq overlooked certain obvious points, including the fact that bin Laden would rather have Hussein's head on a pike on the outskirts of glorious Baghdad. Ignorance of the actual dynamic in the Muslim world on this occasion became something akin to an old slam against blacks and Asians, "They all look the same to me."


This argument is beside the point. Who cares what some stupid GIs think? Do they all need to be perfectly informed? They are an army. Their purpose is to do due what their direct superiors tell them.


Sorry, I don't think I understand most of the second half of your post. Please explain more concisely.

This argument is beside the point. Who cares what some stupid GIs think? Do they all need to be perfectly informed?
How many innocent Iraqi civilians were killed because the "stupid GI" was seeking vengeance for 9/11?
How many of those would not now be dead if the "stupid GI" had known that Iraqis weren't responsible for 9/11?
And how many would have gone to Iraq knowing about the whole PNAC debacle?

They are an army. Their purpose is to do due what their direct superiors tell them.
Ah, but you're missing the point - the poll was taken on the civilian populous - the electorate. Who are supposedly the ones in charge of the country (government of the people, by the people, for the people and all that).
Now if they can't even find Iraq on a map - then what the hell makes you think they're educatated about this issue? And how can you say that if they had been that they would have supported the war?
Half of them didn't support it as it was - had the facts been more widely known, I doubt that the invasion would have happened.

Now if they can't even find Iraq on a map - then what the hell makes you think they're educatated about this issue? And how can you say that if they had been that they would have supported the war?

The cold hard truth is they are not educated enough to make these decisions. That is why we elect leaders. Most people don't want to know all the facts, they are happy to pick someone they trust to make the decisions for them.

Except it seems they dont even trust the politicians anyhow, given that half the country didnt even vote last time round.

Originally posted by Billy Ocean
Maybe you can ask the 100's of thousands of people killed in Iraq by their own government what they think of Red Lobster and Starbucks...oh yeah that's right you can't because they were taken from their families and killed and put in mass graves by the government that was supposed to represent them.

Maybe Saddam shoulda declared Iraq a democracy and filed for US foodstamps and welfare/warfare assistance and things would have worked out much better for the Iraqi people and the dictator. ( remembering, Gen'l Masharraf/Pakistan - Ariel Sharon/Israel ) :rolleyes:

Abdulla....

Psst, haven't you heard about all the fat obese American's that "GREASY SPOON" Red Lobster is killing? :p

Originally posted by DeeCee
What is it with America? Do you really need a Vietnam every thirty years to remind you that your only Human?
Bug out now.
Dee Cee

OH, BUT THE WORLD NEEDS TO LOOK MORE AMERICAN! :p

1. Obese and sassy
2. Arrogant
3. Selfish
4. Gluttonous/polluting industries - hobbies
5. Spoiled
6. Racist
7. Bigoted
8. Imperialistic
9. Self centered

Etc, etc, etc, etc......

Sadly, we then attack and decimate these types, especially if they have a foreign accent! :eek:

Abdulla

You just described almost the entire human race. Show me a country where people arent like that when they get the chance? Anyway, let me explain a few things.


1. Obese? Yeah... same with any group that allways has food available. People eat how much they want to eat of what they want to eat. Would you have a law dictating how many calories one may consume a day?

2. ar·ro·gant adj Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.............
well we are the most powerful nation on earth with the power to collapse civilization in one fell swoop...

3. Selfish: Gotta look out for number one or somebody else is going to slit your throat and loot your remains.

4. Gluttonous: See number one.

5. spoiled: Dosnt everyone want to be spoiled? Its what happens when your not impoverished.

6. racist: our citizens can be idiots if they want to be. We aren"t about to round up all the racist nutters and force them to go through "reeducation" like Cuba does with everyone and their mothers.

7. See above.

8. im·pe·ri·al·ism n. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. .........May be right. Still, we couldnt be worse leaders than these dictators scattered across the planet. Please note that in recent times we haven't been in the habit of keeping any land. We may put in a few economic threads but there is nothing wrong with that.

9. See number 3.

1. Obese? Yeah... same with any group that allways has food available. People eat how much they want to eat of what they want to eat.

Becuase they can . It is a crime against humanity when there are hordes of fat porcs stuffing themselves on the same planet where 20.000 children starve every day .

Would you have a law dictating how many calories one may consume a day?

What a false sense of freedom .

well we are the most powerful nation on earth with the power to collapse civilization in one fell swoop...

In aggression and violence & conquer is where you hold value .

Gotta look out for number one or somebody else is going to slit your throat and loot your remains.

But you are more looking out for yourself by going out every night slicing other peoples throats while robbing them .

4. Gluttonous: See number one.

A crime against humanity , as you destroy something belonging to somebody else just as much as to you , while there is alot more "somebody else" then there is "you" .

Dosnt everyone want to be spoiled? Its what happens when your not impoverished.

Perhaps some moral values along this non-impoverishment is to much to ask ?

6. racist: our citizens can be idiots if they want to be. We aren"t about to round up all the racist nutters and force them to go through "reeducation" like Cuba does with everyone and their mothers.

No you offer this wonderfull "freedom" where they can hurt others in a racist system . Cuba sounds better than USA from what you are saying .

7. Bigoted

No ethics whatsoever I assume ......

Still, we couldnt be worse leaders than these dictators scattered across the planet.

This is that those dictators are yours so competing with them on brutality isnt really that meaningfull .

Please note that in recent times we haven't been in the habit of keeping any land

But there is somuch land (especially if it has oil) fully at your disposel your highness .

:(

Originally posted by Abdullathebomber While America has great plans for converting the Middle East into another Apcot center with all sorts of handpicked "characters" bringing MADE IN AMERICA joy to the people, I suspect that this Disneyland will be one that America will never forget.

Oh, silly silly Abdulla, dear! You're clever hand selectedly fresh words leave out the part about everyone in the world wanting America freedom and America capitalism! I mean, of course no one immigrates to the United States from other countries for the luxuries of money and entertainment, they come here to live under a tyrannical dictator who tortures those he disagrees with!

Firstly, Iraq is not Afghanistan with its uneducated religious zealots suceptible to all the animal impulses of hate and 1,000 years of kayos.

...Oh, did you mean to say 'Chaos'?

I think you are the one with animal hatred..and not just hatred, but deceit. Hating those who run the world doesn't land you a paycheck when the five o'clock whistle blows, silly Abdula. Because I'm sure if I was a lazy liberal bum who hated captalism for a fear of inadequecy, I'm sure I would feel the same!

Iraq is a 6,000 year old civilization with a highly educated and very sophisticated society. It will NEVER allow the infidel's to come into the country dropping food packets, while Apache helicopter gunships fire their hellfire/TOW antitank missiles and take over their world.

If they are so educated and sophisicated to not let 'infidels' come onto their lands, I'm sure their highly competent dictator and his valiant and well equipped troops would have turned us away at the border.


America can expect to see thousands of their soldiers sent home in body bags and extreme hatred for everything American to prevail in Iraq.

You mean heroes who knowingly gave their lives to defend freedom?


A this point in time America's corruption and immorality is hardly anything the Islamic world envies.

Of course, because no Islamics trade weapons on the black market, no Islamics fly planes into buildings, no Islamics strap bombs to their chest and waltz into public squares, no Islamics torture people, or do anyting corrupt or immoral.


Yes, McDonalds/Pizza Hut, et. al. ( obese people )

Don't you like to have tasty, greasy, food once in awhile? Well then, if softly bubbling, warm, pizza crusts and tangy tomato pies are a crime, all Americans are guilty many times over!

and Las Vegas ( moral corruption )

Well, considering, you are Abdullathebomber, moral cleansing must be your strongpoint, being that you are a bomber!


and Enron & WorldComm ( thieves in 3-piece suits masquerading as businessmen )

HAHAHA! And the thieves are thieving upon YOU, then I guess, my friendly bomber! And I say three cheers to them! Self made men, who have money and security, and are not pitifully wilying around, bitchin' about whos got what, and pretendin' they dont want what the other guy has!

and even our WHITEHOUSE TERRORIST ( an ex-cocaine head and "political affirmative action" graduate from Yale ) seems the last thing the Islamic world covets.

Well, buddy, please make me a list of terrorist acts George Walker Bush has commited, by himself or as part of an overreaching organization, accompanied by an analysis of how each of these supposed acts can be considered 'terrorist'. I am also requesting a defintion of 'terrorism' to accompany this list, and a personal reflection entitled 'What Terrorisim Means to Me'. And remember, if you do it late, your work is second rate!


Better get those fuel/hydrogen cells perfected America because the price of Middle Eastern oil ( stolen or otherwise ) will be more expensive than Americans ever suspected.
Abdulla....

I suppose then, my dear Abdulla, that stealing things must be your forte...as the heart on your sleeve seems to have been stolen from an Al Qaeda training camp.




XXXVII

Originally posted by Abdullathebomber

1. Obese and sassy
2. Arrogant
3. Selfish
4. Gluttonous/polluting industries - hobbies
5. Spoiled
6. Racist
7. Bigoted
8. Imperialistic
9. Self centered


Silly Abdulla! Naming Americanistic traits will not deny the fact we rule the world! However fat and greasy we may be, it is as we like it! We were not starved by our Dictators greed because that is as he wishes!

We will be as obese as we see fit


XXXVII

no one immigrates to the United States from other countries for the luxuries of money and entertainment

Yes USA should really be proud how it gained such wealth :rolleyes:

they come here to live under a tyrannical dictator who tortures those he disagrees with!

They come to thank the installers of that tyranical dictator (in their own countries) in person .

If they are so educated and sophisicated to not let 'infidels' come onto their lands

Oh but Iraq was runned by Infidels , Rummie even came and visited some time ago . Infidelic Iraq , thats how the republic should have been called . :p

I'm sure their highly competent dictator and his valiant and well equipped troops would have turned us away at the border.

Their competent dictator and well equipped troops are the fruits of Western civiliation not Eastern . Your compare shows lack of consciousness , are you sure you're not being kept alive by machines ?

You mean heroes who knowingly gave their lives to defend freedom?

They dont know that much , they dont know where they are exactly and Im sure they didnt know there was a voting some time ago and that there's one next year as well .

Im also sure they cant even define freedom .

And their lives were more taken than given .

Heroes ? Baboons I would say . Wow you really have to sink very low to stick it up for these hordes of cave-scratchers in such ways .

Of course, because no Islamics trade weapons on the black market, no Islamics fly planes into buildings, no Islamics strap bombs to their chest and waltz into public squares, no Islamics torture people, or do anyting corrupt or immoral.

On how would this be less moral or corrupt if they would trade on the regular market or drop bombs out of plains on buildings (rather then fly them in) or plant bombs (instead of strapping) .

Anyways who are Islamics ? Muslims ? LOL

And I say three cheers to them! Self made men, who have money and security, and are not pitifully wilying around, bitchin' about whos got what, and pretendin' they dont want what the other guy has!

And I say three chears to the executers of such greedy cavemen .

please make me a list of terrorist acts George Walker Bush has commited

This isnt even funny anymore :(

the heart on your sleeve seems to have been stolen from an Al Qaeda training camp.

Oh and thank you for paying fr those camps as well mr Amerikan

we rule the world!

And thats what makes the difference between simply pathetic &
a hostile entity that is to be targetted .

We will be as obese as we see fit

Only untill the day that another will have more power than you and make you go on a samn diet . You havent existed forever and you wont exist forever , fatso !

Ok, so I shouldn't waste my time, but this is fun.

Im also sure they cant even define freedom .

Can you?

6. racist: our citizens can be idiots if they want to be. We aren"t about to round up all the racist nutters and force them to go through "reeducation" like Cuba does with everyone and their mothers.

No you offer this wonderfull "freedom" where they can hurt others in a racist system . Cuba sounds better than USA from what you are saying

You don't realize how quickly you woud be rounded up.

And I say three chears to the executers of such greedy cavemen .

Who's feelings are you hurting? Who's rights are you suggsting be stolen? The ones who have what you don't?

You, who obviously has access to a computer, of all things?

Can you?

Am I claiming to defend it ?

Who's feelings are you hurting? Who's rights are you suggsting be stolen? The ones who have what you don't?

Not what I dont . Anyways unlike you it seems that I have capability to see cause and effect between those who have nothing and those who have far too much .

You, who obviously has access to a computer, of all things?

Should I feel guilty now ?
LOL

Originally posted by Ghassan Kanafani
Becuase they can . It is a crime against humanity when there are hordes of fat porcs stuffing themselves on the same planet where 20.000 children starve every day .

::shrug:: It is not our responsibility to feed hungry people unless it suits us. There is no exuse for people staving in America, because here, sadly unlike many African countries, there is oppurtunity.

All those 'feed the children' organizations who get fat off people's compassion are very clever. I guess then buddy, your compassion makes the porkers fatter, so then it must be your fault.



What a false sense of freedom .

You are free to give as much as you want.


In aggression and violence & conquer is where you hold value .

Well it must be a winning formula then, no matter what it is :)


But you are more looking out for yourself by going out every night slicing other peoples throats while robbing them .

Does being at the bottom make you paranoid of the top?



A crime against humanity , as you destroy something belonging to somebody else just as much as to you , while there is alot more "somebody else" then there is "you" .

If its a crime, where are the police? Oh, I forgot..they don't have police in third world countries, just liberals.


Perhaps some moral values along this non-impoverishment is to much to ask ?

'Moral Values' are all from a certain point of view.



No you offer this wonderfull "freedom" where they can hurt others in a racist system . Cuba sounds better than USA from what you are saying .

Peope get hurt, yes. But of course, insults and pain are impossble to gauge, except from a certai view. And as you can probably guess, those who have these 'racist crimes' performed on them have nothing to lose, only to gain...I worry that the compassion of the United States will someday lead to our downfall.





No ethics whatsoever I assume ......

Do your ethics justify your existence?



This is that those dictators are yours so competing with them on brutality isnt really that meaningfull .

We dont torture people. We offer religous freedom. We are more honest then they are. Need I say more?



But there is somuch land (especially if it has oil) fully at your disposel your highness .

:( [/B]

We didn't go to Iraq to take oil, and we didn't. The war has nothing to do with oil...in no way have we taken what is not ours, but we have answered the Iraqis plea for freedom.

Don't think you can capitalize on the Iraqi citizes plight for your rise to power.

Good Riddance to you.:rolleyes:


XXXVII

Unregistered

It is not our responsibility to feed hungry people unless it suits us

Nobody is saying you should feed them weither you acknowledge that as an action appriopriate to your responsiblity is up to you .

However there is a causal relation between your wealth and their hunger , therefor you are responsible to a certain extent for the situation they are in .

You can say its not my fault , but I cant say the same for many things that I could do to you . Is there logical-causal relation ? Then there is fault . Acknowledgment of it is a totally irellevant thing .

There is no exuse for people staving in America, because here, sadly unlike many African countries, there is oppurtunity.


Yes what a coincidence :rolleyes:

All those 'feed the children' organizations who get fat off people's compassion are very clever

Dont exclude cloth the children , adopt the children , heal the children etc . They're all very smart

I guess then buddy, your compassion makes the porkers fatter, so then it must be your fault.

My compassions dont make them fatter one bit I have not donated to such organizations in my life and I wont ever . No I rather get things from them then give it to them .

My compassion also isnt internationally shared , its mine . So the relation between my compassion and that of another has nothing to do with eachother other than that it is another compassion .

You are free to give as much as you want.

that doesnt make it any more real

Well it must be a winning formula then, no matter what it is

if this is what you wish to achieve then indeed it is a very winning formula . Its called violence and force , thats why I think we should adapt this formula at least untill matters are equal on to ourselves .

Does being at the bottom make you paranoid of the top?

If seeing reality means paranoid to you then yes . Ive been on rockbottom and Im up in the sky as we speak . It seemed that I was right about everything .

If its a crime, where are the police? Oh, I forgot..they don't have police in third world countries, just liberals.

We dont have police we have para-militia and deathsquads , no liberals .Most of these para-militias and deathsquads are financed by the wonderfull West . Today I just heard how mr Bush is gonna continue his cold war on "terrorism" in Africa through funding such militias and deathsaquads for genociding peoples . Nothing liberal about that , not in the original Latin meaning of the world anyways .

We shouldnt have liberals , we should have internationally operating Mugabe's .

'Moral Values' are all from a certain point of view.

Everything is from a certain point of view , so you cant exclude morals in that sense from the rest of all things . The art however is to have a moral set that can positively interact with an international social contract that is profitable for the lives of as much peoples as possible .

And as you can probably guess, those who have these 'racist crimes' performed on them have nothing to lose, only to gain...

What is your point ?

I worry that the compassion of the United States will someday lead to our downfall.

I hope something will

Do your ethics justify your existence?

Not entirely , but I think for the relevant ammount (to this subject) they do .

We dont torture people. We offer religous freedom. We are more honest then they are. Need I say more?

You pay others to torture peoples , your religious freedom is totally irellevant when much more basic needs lack because of your actions . No you are not more honest than they are , on the contrary .

We didn't go to Iraq to take oil, and we didn't.

No you didnt go for oil , oil was an extra to finance matters . Yes the pipes are running , dont lie to yourself .

The war has nothing to do with oil...in no way have we taken what is not ours, but we have answered the Iraqis plea for freedom.

You have destroyed what is not yours , not just taken . You have also destroyed human beings . No Iraqi asked you for freedom except for peoples like Chalabi . Dont lie

Don't think you can capitalize on the Iraqi citizes plight for your rise to power.

More than Amerika's occupation . And Im for a 3-governments for 3-peoples solution . And that is when each peoples (Kurds + Shia + Sunni) get the system they prefer (Kurdistan + Arab Republic + Islamic Republic) . Im sure you are for "democracy" .........

No thank you , you've given us democracy already and Saddam was voted president by 99.8% because of it .