I understand that Iraqis want to see the coalition troops gone as fast as possible. They show it by attacking soldiers. But why are they sabotaging their own water supplies, power grids, oil lines, and start up fires?

What's the point of that? I just don't understand.

I've heard of sabotage to the oil lines, but not to water or power - those haven't yet been restored, two months after the invasion. Odd that, given that the oil's flowing and the first tanker left Iraq for the US yesterday, isn't it?
:rolleyes:

Of course the oil lines are being sabotaged - control of the oil industry is what this was all about.
The big question is who's doing it. So far, oil lines to other arabic countries are what have been hit - the line to Israel hasn't yet been touched. Which I find rather odd to be honest, assuming that this is the work of islamic guerillas...

I want to go along with Sparks on this , but add one point . It WOULD be possible for Iraqi to sabotage what seems to be for their own benefit , because there are still Fedayi millitias that offer resistance and they are not organzied into an Iraqi resistance .

line to Israel hasn't yet been touched.

Israel ? Whats Israel got to do with any of this ? :p

Iraqi's are unstandably scared of a truly uncertain future. They are venegful against the Americans due to the fact that they waltz in like no tommorow with all her trumpets blaring and bringing a foreign ideology like democracy to a land that until the time of Sumeria never experianced democracy. The problem with this democracpcy argument is that it works only when the population is behind it and overthrows the government. Democracy is from the people it's not to the people. I think the US and some chicken hawks have to understand that. And to add to this debate most sunni's are scared shitless about a Shi'a take over in a election (which is entirely feasible). Democracy in a country that was a result of a imperialistic map making is a joke. And we all know it.

They even did a rocket attack on a power plant a while back that caused massive brownouts.

They even did a rocket attack on a power plant a while back that caused massive brownouts.

Who did ? Fidayi Saddam & co ? I wasnt aware of this , how strange . Have a link ?

And to add to this debate most sunni's are scared shitless about a Shi'a take over in a election (which is entirely feasible). Democracy in a country that was a result of a imperialistic map making is a joke. And we all know it.

Democracy in Iraq means Shiaa Theocracy , indeed peoples should understand that far from being a political ideal , democracy is a political method . The outcome is what the ideal is .

Yes my Sunni brothers and sisters are indeed scraed like hell for Shiaa takeover , especially when led by peoples who have opposed Saddam actively and have been banned/fled . The grudge of such a theocratic system would come very hard on my brothers , if it happens I would hope that Syria will be kind and take their peoples in , as well as other countries . The Kurds want (understandably) their land , so does the Shiaa . I dont give a shit about land , so I would suggest lets really split it up , lets bring down the Imperialst map-making that only favored the west . The Kurds have theirs , the Shiaa have theirs , the Sunni have theirs . Most defintely we could find a way to share this equally , ofcourse the problem being Imperialstic influence that cant allow such . Obviously the Shiaa would more or less have at least very very close ties to Iran , while the Sunni could even join Syria (because of their oil) if they would want to .

If Iraqi resistance could unify and then stand against this Imperialist followed by a fair sharing of land & resources .....

but thats obviously not happening ...

This is why organized religion needs to die..... *sigh*

Which will happen at about the same time that self-interest-dictated foreign policy dies out.
:(

Only if we could get that in writing.

You're not understanding my meaning there clockwood. I'm not offering a deal - I'm pointing out that neither is likely.

Too bad... to permanently get religion out of the political equasion would be worth it.
You do realize that we will eventionally slip into an isolationist phase like we occasionally do... dont you?

Get the Bubbles man !!! Already peace! Anyways the Chinese and Europeans will quickly fill the vacum, ciao!

Clockwood - you do realise that you can't do that, right?

Of course. Its not like I'm the president or anything. *cough* ::looks around suspiciously::

No clockwood, you don't understand. I meant, you do realise that the united states can't do that. As in cannot, it is unable to do so.

This is why organized religion needs to die..... *sigh*

What exactly is Clock ? Its not just religion , Islam . so if you would take away religion there still would be a Sunni & Shiaa difference . If you take away Islam you take much more than religion . Its the same as if you would take away Greek & Roman cultural influence along with Christianity . Abraham was not only a Sumerian , he was a Muslim .

So please think about what you are saying here Clock .....

Anyways , what was your point with it ?

i don't think it's Saddam's Fedayin who're doin the sabotage..... it's a new group called "Iraq Liberation Commandos" or something like that. (the lack of the word "Jihad" in the name shows that these guys are aparently not religious fanatics)

maybe it's the Fedayin under a new name.
anyhoo

they DO sabotage water supplies (delivery of water mostly) and they do sabotage power grids. as soon as the US restore electricity it gets sabotaged

also, the looted Baghdad fire fighter force is working overtime. as soon as they put out a fire, 5 more pop up all over the city. and these are clear acts of sabotage.

what's the point????

the lack of the word "Jihad" in the name shows that these guys are aparently not religious fanatics

This is really ignorant to say especially if you're this much involved with a group like Hamas , like you are .

I dont know if they sabotage what you say , but they WOULD indeed even if its not Fidayi . If they want Intifadah it is possible for them to sabotage their own peoples , moral would not stop them in this sense . We have seen this many time in history , for instance a specially interesting one for our Zahyuni-friend amongst us :

In 1951 the synagogue of Baghdad was bombed by the Jews Yousif Bari and Saleh Shalom who were hung for their crimes . It was claimed that The Halutz Movement were behind the bombs, in an attempt to scare more Jews into leaving Iraq for Israel . Israel on the other hand claims they were framed by a desperate Iraqi police and that they were tortured before pleading guilty .

Whoever did this , the bombings DID cause Jews to migrate with Ben-Porat .

The Jews of Iraq By Naeim Giladi (http://www.ukar.org/jewsnot1.shtml)

Sixteen years later, the Israeli magazine Haolam Hazeh, published by Uri Avnery, then a Knesset member, accused BenPorat of the Baghdad bombings. BenPorat, who would become a Knesset member himself, denied the charge, but never sued the magazine for libel. And Iraqi Jews in Israel still call him Morad Abu alKnabel, Mordechai of the Bombs.

Yes , we all know every peoples in a certain situation sell out their own for political gain , all Iraqi would do that ;)

The US has invaded Iraq. They are there to gain control of the middle east and steal oil.

The Iraqi people have every right to slaughter as many US soldiers as they possibly can.

The Iraqi resistance (Washington Post) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45969-2003Jun28.html?nav=hptoc_eo) AT THE BEGINNING of this month, U.S. commanders in Iraq concluded that the war that a month earlier had been declared over really wasn't. Loose networks of Iraqi militants, many with ties to Saddam Hussein's deposed dictatorship, were trying to launch a guerrilla campaign, hoping to drive U.S. troops from Iraq and eventually restore the old regime. The American response was relatively strong: Thousands of Army troops scheduled to leave Iraq were instead deployed to what became known as the "Sunni triangle" northwest of Baghdad, and systematic sweeps were begun to root out the lingering resistance. Yet, as the month ends, the problem appears to be getting worse rather than better. By last week the number of incidents had risen to two dozen a day, and Iraqi ambushes were growing in effectiveness and range. At least six soldiers have been killed since Wednesday. The enemy also managed to cut off power and water in Baghdad with sabotage attacks and killed several Iraqi civilians working to restore electricity . . . . The oil seems a no-brainer; it's what people believe the Americans are there for; it's the Iraqis' country, and they have some tough choices to make. Will they get another chance from the international community if they reject the American offering? Doubtful; the international community has a hard time acting before a million are dead.

But the sabotage of other infrastructure speaks to two main possibilities: First, and most obviously, that Saddam loyalists are willing to tear the place apart in revenge; and also that the people really don't want the Americans and British in town, and will sink themselves in order to drown the pirates.

It's hard to say what should come next. These problems should have been considered before the war. Lawlessness in the wake of a war? Who could have imagined? Resistance after a partial victory? Who could have imagined? Angry people willing to wreck what little they have left in order to make sure they have a say? Don't tell me there's no historical precedent.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

Hi otheadp,

Let's see if I can stay on topic.;)
Yes, I have heard about the fires. Fortunantly Baghdad is not as flamable as WWII Tokyo. I also know of the sabatage of fuel, water and electrical systems.
I believe there are several groups destabalizing Iraq, to prevent us (US) from setting up a new government.
There are the Saddamites (Baathists) who are also trying to prove to the public that they still have the power to kill citizens and may be back soon, so they better not co-operate with the liberators.
There is also the arab foriners that have come to Iraq to kill non-moslems.
Don't forget Saddam released the criminals from the prisons before the war. They are part of the problem, by design.
In the South, the main problem is Iran who has sent agents into Iraq to destabalize things for Iran's own evil reasons.

Iraqi oil pipe lines to Isreal??? :confused:

Except that I havnt seen much really connecting Iran to whatever is going on in Southern Iraq. Sure, the leader of one Iranian funded group has returned to Iraq, but there seems to be no real evidence for iran trying to destabilise iraq.