http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Iran3_Israel_and_the_Bomb.asp

He makes compelling points about why Iran is considered more dangerous than Israel. You can't argue with how radical Iran is being run.

Power errs on each of his points:

2) ISRAEL - TO BLAME FOR IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM?

While Power cites an Israeli 'threat' as the motivation for Iran's nuclear program, in fact Israeli leaders had never challenged Tehran before that program advanced, nor did Israel ever contribute to an armed attack on Iran.

By contrast, the Iranian Mullahs have been clamoring for Israel's demise since the day they seized power in 1979. Witness the Iranians' more recent calls for the extermination of 'the Zionist Entity':

● Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenai explained in Jan. 2001 that 'the foundation of the Islamic regime is opposition to Israel, and the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region.'

● Khamenai said in a recent sermon that 'the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.'

● In Dec. 2001, former Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani called the establishment of the Jewish state 'the worst event in history,' and declared his intention to decimate Israel, clarifying that 'one [nuclear] bomb is enough to destroy all Israel,' and that 'in due time, the Islamic world will have a military nuclear device.'

Unfortunately, it's not just talk. Iran actively supports anti-Israel terror through Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah. And recall that in January 2002, Iran attempted to smuggle 50 tons of ammunition to Palestinians aboard the ship Karin A. Iran's nuclear program is clearly an extension of that aggression.

To claim, as Power does, that Iran is developing its nuclear program in response to an Israeli 'threat' is simply a fabrication of the historical record.

By contrast, the Iranian Mullahs have been clamoring for Israel's demise since the day they seized power in 1979. Witness the Iranians' more recent calls for the extermination of 'the Zionist Entity':

Yes, and why were they in power? Thanks to the U.S. helping overthrow it. We want that whole region to be in chaos. It helps us. We keep that whole area from becoming unfied like the Ottoman Empire. We don't want any more superpowers. It also helps us try and control the prices of oil. Not only that, but we love to make arms deals with em too.

● Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenai explained in Jan. 2001 that 'the foundation of the Islamic regime is opposition to Israel, and the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region.'

More unstability which helps us. Only now are our acts coming back to bite us in the ass. However, it's fine for us because it gives us a legit reason to invade them. We love wars, they help our economy. We also then get to be more in control of those countries once we defeat em. I mean is this great or what? Installing those bad guys helps us out by adding unstability and then later it still helps us out by giving us reason to invade.

● In Dec. 2001, former Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani called the establishment of the Jewish state 'the worst event in history,' and declared his intention to decimate Israel, clarifying that 'one [nuclear] bomb is enough to destroy all Israel,' and that 'in due time, the Islamic world will have a military nuclear device.'

The Islamic world already has numerous nuclear devices. Pakistan anyone? Not to mention that over half of the Pakistani population are radical Muslims. However, they're at a stalemate at the moment because of India so nothing is happening. Nothing will happen if both Israel and Iran have nukes as well. The only reason why we don't want Iran to have nukes now though is because that'd mean we can't invade Iran whenever we want. We want the area to remain unstable to we can control it whenever we choose to. Nukes prevent that. We're fine with Pakistan having nukes because we don't wanna invade em as they don't have much resources of use to use, but the Middle East is full of oil that we need.

Unfortunately, it's not just talk. Iran actively supports anti-Israel terror through Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah. And recall that in January 2002, Iran attempted to smuggle 50 tons of ammunition to Palestinians aboard the ship Karin A. Iran's nuclear program is clearly an extension of that aggression.

They support Covert-ops? Boo-hoo. Most countries do. Heck, Israel is the last one to complain about it. As for smuggling in 50 tons of ammo to Palestine? Big whoop. All superpowers smuggle in arms to them. Hell, who do you think supplies all the genocides in Africa? We all do! Hell, complaining about smuggling of arms is more hypocritical than complaining about covert-ops, lol.

To claim, as Power does, that Iran is developing its nuclear program in response to an Israeli 'threat' is simply a fabrication of the historical record.

Uh huh. Tell Israel to disarm all its nukes then. And need anyone remember the whole Israel/Arab war where Israel got too cocky with it's land grabs and faced the consequences from the Arab world? And guess what happened when Israel lost? They were gonna nuke all of the Middle East until they forced us to help them out with U.S. airstrikes to not use em. Israel not a threat to the Arab world? Bull-fucking-shit.

- N

Israel wouldn't be considered a threat if the Muslim radicals that control Iran and some other countries would just tone down on the radicalism, and stop bitchin', and simply live with Israel's existance.

Israel wouldn't be considered a threat if the Muslim radicals that control Iran and some other countries would just tone down on the radicalism, and stop bitchin', and simply live with Israel's existance.

So Israel can be like the aliens in that Simpson's episode where world peace was achieved and all the nukes in the world were disarmed. All of a sudden the aliens come around and see that and decide to attack us.

When the Arab world loosens up, that's when the Israeli's get to catch them off-guard and make more land grabs like in the past. And who exactly is doing to stop them? The Arab world won't be able to and we sure won't since they're our masters of manipulation.

If you think Israel is any different, for the better, today than it was in the past, you're only kidding yourself.

- N

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Iran3_Israel_and_the_Bomb.asp

He makes compelling points about why Iran is considered more dangerous than Israel. You can't argue with how radical Iran is being run.
He is alos a commited zionist and true to form the article is from Honest Reporting , and would you believe it its site mission page says this :HonestReporting was started at the initiative of the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah, and is now an independent non-profit organization (501c3) with its own board of directors.
How biased could you get of course they are going to say Iran is a bigger threat , thats their job they are a front for Israel .

Everyone is biased to some extent - that doesn't mean their deductions are invalid. To assume so is ad-hominem.

that does not matter, he doesn't seem to care. both Neildo and Brian ignored the fact
that Iran is a different case, it may actually be willing to use its nukes. i mean, israel can, but how could you consider it as a threat when it doesnt want to use them?

that does not matter, he doesn't seem to care. both Neildo and Brian ignored the fact
that Iran is a different case, it may actually be willing to use its nukes. i mean, israel can, but how could you consider it as a threat when it doesnt want to use them?

What do you define "doesn't want to use them" as? Maybe it's just me, but having planes armed with nuclear weapons flying towards their enemies sounds a little in the gray area of "doesn't want to use them".

my guess is israel will only use nuclear weapons as its last option so any reason to use them must be a very good reason. the fact is that israel never used its nuclear weapon. it didn't even threatned to use it.

"having planes armed with nuclear weapons flying towards their enemies "

when? towards who? did those planes actually DROP the bombs?

What do you define "doesn't want to use them" as?
Not wanting to use them...?
Even if Israel is "flying planes back and forth loaded with nukes", that doesn't mean they WANT to use them...just that they will if necesarry. Same thing between the US and USSR. We didn't want to use our nukes of Russia, but we had planes flying back and forth just in case broke out and we had to use those nukes to bring a swift end to conflict.

Heh, nobody is talking about "transferring nukes on planes" in the sense you're talking about.

We're referring to the Six-Days War and the Yom Kippur War that Israel LOST until they forced us to help them with aerial strikes or else they were going to nuke the Arab world. Little chickenshits too considering they started the bloody thing.

Go google it, read a book, or heck, if you need entertainment, watch the opening scene of Sum of All Fears as it refers to that.

- N

What do you define "doesn't want to use them" as? Maybe it's just me, but having planes armed with nuclear weapons flying towards their enemies sounds a little in the gray area of "doesn't want to use them".

Don't they also have nukes on their Dolphins?

So when is Israel going to sign the NPT?

Don't they also have nukes on their Dolphins?

I do know we've trained dolphins to disarm sea mines in the waters of the Middle East so hey, anything is possible. ;)

- N

Not wanting to use them...?
Even if Israel is "flying planes back and forth loaded with nukes", that doesn't mean they WANT to use them...just that they will if necesarry. Same thing between the US and USSR. We didn't want to use our nukes of Russia, but we had planes flying back and forth just in case broke out and we had to use those nukes to bring a swift end to conflict.

Sure, I suppose I worded my statement incorrectly. I guess it really depends on who decides when it's neccesary that Israel use nuclear weapons. Obviously Israel's leaders (or former leaders, I should say) have a different definition of "neccesary" than you do.

when? towards who? did those planes actually DROP the bombs?

This is old news aaa. As neildo already stated, we're talking about at the end of Yom Kippur War when Israel got it's ass handed to them and had planes in motion towards targets in the Arab world. Only America bending a knee to Israel kept the Arab world from being obliviated. And why the hell do you have to ask "did those planes actually DROP the bombs?" No shit, sherlock. I'll leave you to enlighten out of your ignorance. In the mean time, get off my SciForums. ;)

Heh, nobody is talking about "transferring nukes on planes" in the sense you're talking about.

We're referring to the Six-Days War and the Yom Kippur War that Israel LOST until they forced us to help them with aerial strikes or else they were going to nuke the Arab world. Little chickenshits too considering they started the bloody thing.

Go google it, read a book, or heck, if you need entertainment, watch the opening scene of Sum of All Fears as it refers to that.

- N
seems to me you've just read the wrong book.
israel didn't provoke any war.

do you know why it is called "Six-Days War" ('67)? within 6 days israel crushed
the armies of egypt, syria and jordan. israel WON the war, smart guy, BIG TIME. guess what? it used planes, tanks and soldiers. no nuclear weapon. if you don't belive me then go google it.

how much do you know about the Yom Kippur War ('73)?
egypt just played dirty when it surprised israel in Yom Kippur, the holiest
day of the jewish calendar. you can't call the israelis "Little chickenshits" as they had driven egypt and syria back to to their borders, even when they faced with the worst situation. again, israel used its tanks and soldiers - no nukes! also, they did a good job back in '48, don't you think? a bunch of farmers
against 5 arab armies. oh, let me guess - israel had nukes in '48?

AmishRakeFight, i'd like to hear your response too.

seems to me you've just read the wrong book.
israel didn't provoke any war.

do you know why it is called "Six-Days War" ('67)? within 6 days israel crushed
the armies of egypt, syria and jordan. israel WON the war, smart guy, BIG TIME. guess what? it used planes, tanks and soldiers. no nuclear weapon. if you don't belive me then go google it.

how much do you know about the Yom Kippur War ('73)?
egypt just played dirty when it surprised israel in Yom Kippur, the holiest
day of the jewish calendar. you can't call the israelis "Little chickenshits" as they had driven egypt and syria back to to their borders, even when they faced with the worst situation. again, israel used its tanks and soldiers - no nukes! also, they did a good job back in '48, don't you think? a bunch of farmers
against 5 arab armies. oh, let me guess - israel had nukes in '48?

AmishRakeFight, i'd like to hear your response too.


You guys never learn. The man's nick is aaa. Press the a 3 times. He has 41 total posts.

He is a plant meant to disrupt any Israeli critical conversation here. Go look up the word Sayyanim.

http://www.nsm88.com/articles/mossad%20spy%20tony%20resnick.html

Everyday I come to this forums of scientist and I shake my head in wonder about how naive they are.

AmishRakeFight, i'd like to hear your response too.

Your wish is my command. :)

israel didn't provoke any war.

So, what, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked Israel because Israelis wear briefs instead of boxers? Obviously Israel pissed on Syria, Egypt, and Jordan enough to PROVOKE them into attacking them. I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but it's clearly elementary logic to see that SyrEgyJor didn't attack Israel for no reason. They want nothing more to see Israel destroyed, annihilated, wiped off the face of the map. Again, religion caused violence, violence caused death, and death caused certain leaders minds to be changed.

do you know why it is called "Six-Days War" ('67)? within 6 days israel crushed
the armies of egypt, syria and jordan. israel WON the war, smart guy, BIG TIME. guess what? it used planes, tanks and soldiers.

I wholeheartedly agree. Israel fought valiently (and desperatly), and came out on top. I have no qualms with your argument about the Six-Day War.

how much do you know about the Yom Kippur War ('73)?

I'm no expert, as I stated earlier.

egypt just played dirty when it surprised israel in Yom Kippur, the holiest
day of the jewish calendar.

Do you realize your mistake here? There is no "playing dirty" in war. War is deception, outwitting and outmanuevering your enemy, using superior strategy and tactics to accomplish your objectives. Egypt used their element of surprise to attack Israel at exactly the time when they were definitely not expecting it. They milked their advantage for all it was worth, and it almost paid off. This kind of sounds like the British strategy in Iraq of dressing like Iraqis and attacking from disguise. I see nothing morally wrong (not legally wrong, which it is, by the way) with being clever and outsmarting the enemy.

Little chickenshits too considering they started the bloody thing.

The Israelis started the Yom Kippur war? That's a novel interpretation. And Happeh invokes Godwin's law on his own argument.

Great stuff in this thread...

Kind of funny that he would attempt to call Egypt dirty in 73 but Israel wasn't in 67?

Then again the Liberty was sunk in 67...

Obviously Israel pissed on Syria, Egypt, and Jordan enough to PROVOKE them into attacking them.
ofcourse, when israel was established in 1948. the arab nations could not complete with the idea of a jewish state living among them. israel tried to call out for peace, but the arabs wouldn't listen. they simply started a war and lost. they got pissed off and tried again in '69. same thing in '73.


I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but it's clearly elementary logic to see that SyrEgyJor didn't attack Israel for no reason.

here's the answer, hidden in your own words:

"They want nothing more to see Israel destroyed, annihilated, wiped off the face of the map. Again, religion caused violence, violence caused death, and death caused certain leaders minds to be changed."

Hate.

Kind of funny that he would attempt to call Egypt dirty in 73 but Israel wasn't in 67?
.
i do belive there is a difference.

in '67 israel did surprise egypt with an airstrike but only because it knew that egypt is about to invade. also, egypt already started the war when its navy blocked the straits of Tiran. it would be a mistake to sit
and wait for the enemy to strike first.

in '73 israel made that mistake.

aaa - bingo. On the nosie.

General Geoff

So, what, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked Israel because Israelis wear briefs instead of boxers? Obviously Israel pissed on Syria, Egypt, and Jordan enough to PROVOKE them into attacking them. I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but it's clearly elementary logic to see that SyrEgyJor didn't attack Israel for no reason. They want nothing more to see Israel destroyed, annihilated, wiped off the face of the map. Again, religion caused violence, violence caused death, and death caused certain leaders minds to be changed.

Those nations wanted to destroy Israel for the same central reason that religious minorities are oppressed in islamic nations: it was a Jewish nation, operating under Jewish laws, in what they considered to be islamic territory. "There shall not be two religions in the Arabian Peninsula," declared Mohammed, and the First through to the Third Caliph seem to think the Arabian Peninsula composed the entire world. (Notably and incredibly, there continue to exist a broad sect of Moroccan citizens who insist on "right of return" for themselves and family to Spain, of all places, from which their antecedents were expelled 500 years ago following the reconquest of Spain from islamic invasion (800 AD) and the utter horrors of dhimmitude.)

From the perspective of those nations, the followers of a corrupted religion fought with the followers of the One True religion and won. That simply cannot be allowed. The Quran and the Hadiths proclaim again and again the dogmatic superiority of islam over Christianity and Judaism, going so far as to claim that even the rocks and trees hate Jews.

That was sufficient to cause the initial violence in Judea shortly after Jewish immigrants arrived (there were several bloody massacres of Jewish towns) and when the Jews armed themselves and fought for survival the Arabs upped the ante to entire nation-states. That the Jews there have continued to hang on cannot be seen by someone with a committed mindset reflecting the suppositions in the above paragraph as anything other than a terrible, unbearable humiliation for their God and their Prophet. Toss in Sura 9 of the Quran and we have the current situation.

Not boxers and briefs, but entity and entirety of faith.

Geoff