You know , strange times we indeed live in , some 20 years ago America would only have to snap her fingers and the world stood to attention . These days America snaps her fingers and the world gives the 1 fingered salute back . How will America deal with Iran , that recalitrant nation which has just told America to go screw it itself . Below are the avenues which have been closed off to America , due to its internatioanl impotence , they all fail .

MILITARY STRIKE
With UN approval out of the question, the US would probably have to go it alone, with even loyal ally Britain a non-starter. US forces are already overstretched in Iraq . With the teetering US economy having to loot its infrastucture and welfare pots to fund this war it would be a tad strectched to fund an Iranian escapade . The political fall-out in the Arab world would be immense.

IMPOSE TRADE SANCTIONS
The official preferred option of the US and the European Union. But likely to be stalled in the Security Council by Russia and China. Would be counter-productive since Iran would react by cutting off oil supplies to the West.

SPORTS BOYCOTT
Iran could be banned from international sports events calls for the Iranian soccer team to be expelled from this year's World Cup have fallen on deaf ears as FIFA, the soccer's governing body, said last month that it would not expel Iran.

Enter the Russians to save the day , they snapped their fingers and what do you know Irans all happy .
COMPROMISE
A possible deal could involve Russia making nuclear fuel which could be used only for peaceful purposes on its own territory as part of a joint venture with Iran. Would need a face-saving formula to satisfy Iran's national pride.

And what do you know Russia to the forefront !
Iran breakthrough may be in sight (http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=900&id=76282006)
A POTENTIAL breakthrough in the nuclear stand-off with Iran came last night when the Iranian ambassador in Moscow praised a proposal to move Tehran's uranium enrichment programme to Russia.
Its time America left the Middle East and let the new powers take over .

Umm, all we have to do is provide monetary and logistical support to Iranian insurgents yearning to resist their theocratic Overlords with IEDs & media access.

If such things are enough to bring down the US in Iraq, they surely are enough to bring down the Ayatollahs in Iran, no?

Brian Foley, you forgot one option:

Did not the Shaw of Iran have a son? Why can't US get him out of Paris and stick him up on the throne and call it democracy as US did with his dad? :rolleyes:

"A POTENTIAL breakthrough in the nuclear stand-off with Iran came last night when the Iranian ambassador in Moscow praised a proposal to move Tehran's uranium enrichment programme to Russia. "

the last i heard they had flat out refused to send uranium to russia to be enriched

they did
rather humiliating if they were to agree
fact is npt allows for iran to do stuff. there is no crime
all the axis of insanity has going for it is the claim that iran will attack with nukes if tech is in thier possession

ja, another pre emptive strike based on fear

You know , strange times we indeed live in , some 20 years ago America would only have to snap her fingers and the world stood to attention . These days America snaps her fingers and the world gives the 1 fingered salute back . How will America deal with Iran , that recalitrant nation which has just told America to go screw it itself . Below are the avenues which have been closed off to America , due to its internatioanl impotence , they all fail .

MILITARY STRIKE
With UN approval out of the question, the US would probably have to go it alone, with even loyal ally Britain a non-starter. US forces are already overstretched in Iraq . With the teetering US economy having to loot its infrastucture and welfare pots to fund this war it would be a tad strectched to fund an Iranian escapade . The political fall-out in the Arab world would be immense.

IMPOSE TRADE SANCTIONS
The official preferred option of the US and the European Union. But likely to be stalled in the Security Council by Russia and China. Would be counter-productive since Iran would react by cutting off oil supplies to the West.

SPORTS BOYCOTT
Iran could be banned from international sports events calls for the Iranian soccer team to be expelled from this year's World Cup have fallen on deaf ears as FIFA, the soccer's governing body, said last month that it would not expel Iran.

Enter the Russians to save the day , they snapped their fingers and what do you know Irans all happy .
COMPROMISE
A possible deal could involve Russia making nuclear fuel which could be used only for peaceful purposes on its own territory as part of a joint venture with Iran. Would need a face-saving formula to satisfy Iran's national pride.

And what do you know Russia to the forefront !

Its time America left the Middle East and let the new powers take over .

5 paragraphs, yet you say nothing.

rather humiliating if they were to agree

I would actually gain respect for the Iranians if they would agree and finally make a decision with their heads instead of their hearts. Too little think+too much acting off emotion=too much war

Umm, all we have to do is provide monetary and logistical support to Iranian insurgents yearning to resist their theocratic Overlords with IEDs & media access.

If such things are enough to bring down the US in Iraq, they surely are enough to bring down the Ayatollahs in Iran, no?
America tried that in the 1980’s it failed because the people were behind the Ayatollahs , you realize the Islamic revolution was a popular one ? There is no groundswell of discontent in Iran to exploit .
Brian Foley, you forgot one option: Did not the Shaw of Iran have a son? Why can't US get him out of Paris and stick him up on the throne and call it democracy as US did with his dad?
And his Father was thrown out by a popular revolution , his Father was not flown in from Paris but actually was in Iran at the time.
"A POTENTIAL breakthrough in the nuclear stand-off with Iran came last night when the Iranian ambassador in Moscow praised a proposal to move Tehran's uranium enrichment programme to Russia. "

the last i heard they had flat out refused to send uranium to russia to be enriched
Hasn’t been thrown out , in fact Iran is now seriously going into negotiations with the EU , seems to me the Iranians have realized they may have gone a bit to far against the EU as Russia has more or less come around to the EU’s position .
they did
rather humiliating if they were to agree
fact is npt allows for iran to do stuff. there is no crime
all the axis of insanity has going for it is the claim that iran will attack with nukes if tech is in thier possession

ja, another pre emptive strike based on fear
Iran is in full compliance with the IAEA , The EU has said Irans programme is for peaceful purposes , and not even America has come out and outright and accused Iran of having an active atomic weapons programme . Americas rationale is Iranian secrecy provokes suspicion .
5 paragraphs, yet you say nothing.
Im sorry what are you babbling about ? I personally wrote 5 paragraphs of options facing the America and why they didn’t/ wont work . Could you enlighten me as to where I had nothing to say ?
I would actually gain respect for the Iranians if they would agree and finally make a decision with their heads instead of their hearts. Too little think+too much acting off emotion=too much war
I think its the Americans who are being rash and foolhardy and led by their emotions . What country is it that is threatening war ? Not Iran , its America .

Umm, all we have to do is provide monetary and logistical support to Iranian insurgents yearning to resist their theocratic Overlords with IEDs & media access.

If such things are enough to bring down the US in Iraq, they surely are enough to bring down the Ayatollahs in Iran, no?

Are there even iranian insurgents?

Are there even iranian insurgents?
Yeah , thats wild , how can someone be an insurgent in his own country ? Thats how US propaganda explains the Iraqi resistance , they put it down to insurgents .

Are there even iranian insurgents?
Thousands of Iranians demonstrated in front of the White House today, January 19, expressing support to Maryam Rajavi's proposal for democratic change in Iran.
Participants carrying the banner of the People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI), the main opposition to the mullahs' fundamentalist regime, called for its removal from the State Department's list of terrorist organizations. In their slogans they chanted, "We want justice, we want peace, we want Mojahedin off the list."http://www.ncr-iran.org/content/view/902/48/
I don't know if you should really call them insurgents, but there certainly is a resistance movement in Iran. Unfortunately, they have been labeled as terrorists as part of the agreement under which Iran stopped its nuclear research the first time around.

This thread’s title has the tense wrong. America is not yet a "has been." GWB & Conie are working hard to make it one, so soon the title will be correct.

China needs oil. Iran has oil.
Iran need protection from GWB & C's "regime change." China has Security Council veto.

Prediction:
Phase 1 of Iran China deal: China blocks UN action, has always opposed "interference in internal affairs"

Phase 2: Iran accepts Yuan, instead of dollars, from China for oil and gives preference to tankers going to China.

Phase 3: China & Iran sign mutual defense pack.

Note these three phases may all be rolled into one phase, but are completed in less than a year.


Phase 4: Iran, China & Afghanistan sign oil pipeline deal.

Afghanistan gets both Yuan, cheaper oil, and guns etc. for the war lords. (The US installed government in Afghanistan loses power to local war lords, etc. as they, armed with Chinese weapons, regain control of their traditional jurisdictions.)

Iran get mutual defense treaty with China, perhaps even loan of nuclear weapons on Chinese mid-range rockets that can retaliate against Israel until they can make their own. (Most likely these remain on western Chinese soil and under Chinese control, but are on mobile launchers that can deploy into Iranian soil in hours, about 60, and as part of the mutual defense pack, they become military aid to Iran or "Iranian missiles" to be fired from Iranian soil, but are intended to be used only to deter Israel in MAD scheme, which even the US will not let Isreal convert into actual nuclear war.)

China gets oil and Iran’s help with control of the Western provinces, which for years, under Moslem influence, have been trying to break away from China. China also get less need to hold any dollars in reserves to buy oil with.

When other oil exporters (Venezuela will be the first) accept Yuan for oil, central banks unload dollars from reserves and begin to hold Yuan. Dollar’s purchasing power rapidly (approximately one month) falls to less than half. Oil more than doubles (except Cuba and China that have long term deals with suppliers) I.e. For US current $60/barrel becomes 60x2x2= $240/barrel and few can still afford to drive car to Wal-Mart etc. Many lose jobs. US prints dollars to pay debts, and like the runaway German inflation, dollar becomes worth less than one cent in less than a year after the start of the run on the dollar. Then US is a "has been."

Yeah , thats wild , how can someone be an insurgent in his own country ?

So the democratically voted-in government is somehow less credible than the terrorists?

I imagine the Iraqi government conceives of them as being insurgents, too.

Geoff

When other oil exporters (Venezuela will be the first) accept Yuan for oil, central banks unload dollars from reserves and begin to hold Yuan. Dollar’s purchasing power rapidly (approximately one month) falls to less than half. Oil more than doubles (except Cuba and China that have long term deals with suppliers) I.e. For US current $60/barrel becomes 60x2x2= $240/barrel and few can still afford to drive car to Wal-Mart etc. Many lose jobs. US prints dollars to pay debts, and like the runaway German inflation, dollar becomes worth less than one cent in less than a year after the start of the run on the dollar. Then US is a "has been."
actually Iran will be trading in the Euro
Iran Oil Bourse:a Threat To The Petrodollar? (http://dinarfiles.zambezitimes.com/fulldin.php?id_news=3091)
DUBAI, Nov. 3 - Iran's decision to set up an oil and associated derivatives market next year has generated a great deal of interest. This is primarily because of Iran' s reported intention to invoice energy contracts in euros rather than dollars.
As for the yuan .
India, China and other countries start dumping US dollar and buy Euro (http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/11-27-04.asp)
The India, China and other countries have started dumping US Dollar quietly and buying Euro. That put a very serious pressure on US Dollar. Chinese and Indian central bank officials denied such reports. But Foreign exchange traders say they are quite convinced of Indian and Chinese moves. According some traders, there are many other countries specially oil rich Middle Eastern countries running away from dollar.
The fact is China does not have the industrial/technological capacity to sell to Iran . All of Chinas military equipment derives from Russian imports or built on Russian licence . Chinas economy is simply a re-export based system where 95% of all exports are simply western designed product produced by contract with Western firms it is simply manufactured and China and re-exported back to the Western consumer market . Economies such as this are simply glasshouses which at a moments notice can be collapsed .

So the democratically voted-in government is somehow less credible than the terrorists?

I imagine the Iraqi government conceives of them as being insurgents, too.

Geoff
We are talking about Iran here not Iraq Geoff .

You know , strange times we indeed live in , some 20 years ago America would only have to snap her fingers and the world stood to attention . These days America snaps her fingers and the world gives the 1 fingered salute back . How will America deal with Iran , that recalitrant nation which has just told America to go screw it itself . Below are the avenues which have been closed off to America , due to its internatioanl impotence , they all fail .

MILITARY STRIKE
With UN approval out of the question, the US would probably have to go it alone, with even loyal ally Britain a non-starter. US forces are already overstretched in Iraq . With the teetering US economy having to loot its infrastucture and welfare pots to fund this war it would be a tad strectched to fund an Iranian escapade . The political fall-out in the Arab world would be immense.

IMPOSE TRADE SANCTIONS
The official preferred option of the US and the European Union. But likely to be stalled in the Security Council by Russia and China. Would be counter-productive since Iran would react by cutting off oil supplies to the West.

SPORTS BOYCOTT
Iran could be banned from international sports events calls for the Iranian soccer team to be expelled from this year's World Cup have fallen on deaf ears as FIFA, the soccer's governing body, said last month that it would not expel Iran.

Enter the Russians to save the day , they snapped their fingers and what do you know Irans all happy .
COMPROMISE
A possible deal could involve Russia making nuclear fuel which could be used only for peaceful purposes on its own territory as part of a joint venture with Iran. Would need a face-saving formula to satisfy Iran's national pride.

And what do you know Russia to the forefront !

Its time America left the Middle East and let the new powers take over .

You seem to have missed the most likley option walnut, israel bombing iran, doing the wests dirty work, & i hope they do it real soon, they will certainly have the blessing of the majority of the western populations, including myself, israel has to protect itself, & it also owes america big time for all those US dollars given to her, i can only hope they drop nukes on iran, not just cruise missiles, iran is a massive ulcer, like syria they both need wiped of the planet, and then we can plant walnut trees there.

America finished walnut are you for real, they have the biggest economy in the world, china has 4 times there population, but still can not match the american economy.

New powers who walnut, russia? there military is a joke, there planes are crashing every other day, there submarines are forever sinking, all russias money goes into the swiss bank accounts of its corrupt leaders, as does china's, so who is left to be the new powers walnut, is there any country that can match the american military machine, or there economy, NO WALNUT so walnut if you are going to make walnut statements, at least have some credibility to your bullshit.

I think its the Americans who are being rash and foolhardy and led by their emotions . What country is it that is threatening war ? Not Iran , its America .

True I agree.
But I seem to also remember something about Iran's president saying Israel should be wiped off the map. Pretty threatening statements from both parties I think.

New powers who walnut, russia? there military is a joke, there planes are crashing every other day, there submarines are forever sinking, all russias money goes into the swiss bank accounts of its corrupt leaders, as does china's, so who is left to be the new powers walnut, is there any country that can match the american military machine, or there economy, NO WALNUT so walnut if you are going to make walnut statements, at least have some credibility to your bullshit.
And Americas soldiers are raiding scrap metal yards in Baghdad for extra armour to put on ther Humvees .
Chin Nut if you are going to wish to debate me you must come off medication , ok sweetheart .

True I agree.
But I seem to also remember something about Iran's president saying Israel should be wiped off the map. Pretty threatening statements from both parties I think.
I find what the Iranian President said very suspect almost as a dare or a deliberate throwing down of the gauntlet . More or less saying Fuck you what are gonna do about it ? Its as if Iran knows they are in a very advantageous position with so many power blocks fighting over it .

Brian Foley,

I agree that the invasion of Iraq was wrong and that America is going to get into deeper and deepre shit for its aggression, against the middle east - so poorly unjustified by 9-11 etc.
I agree with you on all that anti-war on terror anti-GWB/neocon/PNAC stuff.

But would you really want America to fall as the superpower - to somewhere like Russia or China?

I mean, overlook the current neocon/PNAC/GWB regime, how insane and violent and megalomanic they are, and think about what america's demise - what that would mean for people like you and me??? Not to mention the war.
Think about the human rights abuses of countries like China and Iran - censoring the internet, hanging gay people, etc.
Countries like china and iran, IMHO, make america look like disneyland - a tacky plastic arrogant pretentious loud fat and war mongering disneyland SURE, but a disneyland nevertheless.

Sure I want to see this US regime, the neocons etc get their deserts.
But would you really want China or Russia to overtake as the superpower?

But would you really want America to fall as the superpower - to somewhere like Russia or China?

I mean, overlook the current neocon/PNAC/GWB regime, how insane and violent and megalomanic they are, and think about what america's demise - what that would mean for people like you and me??? Not to mention the war.

Unfortunately, Americans only learn when they get kicked in the balls or slapped in the face. Until something drastic happens, the American sheeple will continue to vote into office morons such as these.

I do not want a tragic event such as that to happen, but it's the only way we'll ever learn so we can rebuild ourselves better. We'll reincarnate and sprout from the ashes like a Phoenix.

Now hey, I'm ALL FOR some other way for us to wake up and learn from our mistakes, but I just doubt there is another way. If you can think of one, please share it. However, I'm all prepared for the worst.

Spend, spend, and spend. Buy all that you can because a man's wealth isn't determined by the size of his bank account but by the items he owns. Money won't be worth jack squat if a tragic event happens such as those mentioned in earlier posts, only the items you have left.

- N

...The fact is China does not have the industrial/technological capacity to sell to Iran.This is a two part statement.
Part about limited "industrial/technological capacity" is clear very questionable, if not simply false. China is already the world's leading producer of computers, cell phones and TVs, by volume. I think Indonesia still makes more microwave ovens. Not sure who makes more digital cameras

China is probably the world's largest exporter and next year will begin exporting even cars to US. Every major car maker and most minor ones are greatly expanding production facilities in China, as it is the world´s fastest growing market. China will soon go to the moon with their dosmestic designed space craft. Operates the world's only high speed magnetically levatated train in routine commercial service. (the Germans did much of the design for them.) etc.

The living standard is rapidly improving from a low base, but most of the rapidly increasing production is planned for export, not domestic consumption. (You did not think the "people's republic" was for the people did you?)
SUMMAR,first part: Chinese GDP pasted Italy in 2004 France in 2005 (or start of 2006) in 2007or 8 will be behind only US, Japan and Germany (if memory serves - I posted these fact with reference a few weeks ago.)
Also note that the planned Chinese GDP does not have a significant "entertainment componet", like NFR game related sales, Rock concert tickets, Hollywood, etc. but goes in for things like trucks, power plants, new ports, rail lines, flood control, etc. that increase their productivity. (Part of reason why theirs is 10% and US's is 3%.)

On second part (who they can sell to / supply):
That, like much else is a political, decision. China appears to alread have all the dollars it wants. Sale to US (200 billion net US/China trade in China's favor in 2005) will drop. That frees up production for economic / political objectives, like securing Iranian oil as I suggested in my post. It will not happen over night, but China is where the future is and all the big firms know it. That is why they are by far the direct investment leader of the world. By approximatel 2020, China will have world's largest GDP and it will stil be heavily weighted to trucks, tanks, warships, power plants, etc relative to goods for domestic consumption etc. It is a planned economy that knows how to market to the world (export) so as to attract more investments in production than any other country.
SUMMSRT, part 2: They may not have the capacity this year to deliver what I predicted in my post by very soon will with their 10% and focused /planned annual growth.

Unfortunately, Americans only learn when they get kicked in the balls or slapped in the face. Until something drastic happens, the American sheeple will continue to vote into office morons such as these.

I do not want a tragic event such as that to happen, but it's the only way we'll ever learn so we can rebuild ourselves better. We'll reincarnate and sprout from the ashes like a Phoenix.

Now hey, I'm ALL FOR some other way for us to wake up and learn from our mistakes, but I just doubt there is another way. If you can think of one, please share it. However, I'm all prepared for the worst.

Spend, spend, and spend. Buy all that you can because a man's wealth isn't determined by the size of his bank account but by the items he owns. Money won't be worth jack squat if a tragic event happens such as those mentioned in earlier posts, only the items you have left.

- N

I agree, the New Yorkers seemed to be the ones most likely to actually say - "hey, why did this happen to us - what was the real motivation?"

Are you thinking nuclear weapons, and are you like physically prepared?
Are some people in America building like nuclear shelters etc?
Do you think America would actually learn and grow up from having a city nuked or do you think they would just react even more violently than before - close its borders and impose facism and remove freedoms?

Brian Foley,

I agree that the invasion of Iraq was wrong and that America is going to get into deeper and deepre shit for its aggression, against the middle east - so poorly unjustified by 9-11 etc.
I agree with you on all that anti-war on terror anti-GWB/neocon/PNAC stuff.
Thats what gets me is the fact it got this far , its frightening to see how complacent the world is .
But would you really want America to fall as the superpower - to somewhere like Russia or China?
Christ no , when it comes to killing Id say Russia and China with Germany , France and Britain are the worst offenders . Americas 100 years at the top is mild in comparison .
I mean, overlook the current neocon/PNAC/GWB regime, how insane and violent and megalomanic they are, and think about what america's demise - what that would mean for people like you and me??? Not to mention the war.
Agreed , I dont believe America is just going to die overnight , I mean face it all nations that were at the top must also come down , America will always be a major player . You are right any removal or drop with America always craetes a vacum , and these vacums become whirpools which suck down many other nations .
Think about the human rights abuses of countries like China and Iran - censoring the internet, hanging gay people, etc.
Countries like china and iran, IMHO, make america look like disneyland - a tacky plastic arrogant pretentious loud fat and war mongering disneyland SURE, but a disneyland nevertheless.
I just wish America was truly on a path of installing democratic regimes in the mideast . I cant say it enough but the nation that topped my list of the best examples of what a nation should be like was the America of 1776 a real beacon of light . In all honesty Americas conduct in Afghanisatn and Iraq compared with Russias bloodthirsty rampage in Chechenya is commendable to a point .
Sure I want to see this US regime, the neocons etc get their deserts.
I just want to see Americans have the goverment they deserve and desire , a goverment for the people by the people . A goverment which puts the needs of its own citizens above Israels needs a free health system , free universal college educations .
But would you really want China or Russia to overtake as the superpower?
I have never said that anywhere , what I am trying to attempt with this thraed and several others is show that what actually is happening in this world is a free for all fight amongst the great powers namely The USA , The EU , Russia with the smaller China/Japan axis . Iran is deliberately thumbing its nose at America knowing full well she is playing one off against the other . This could blow up into a major conflagaration in which we all lose .

They may not have the capacity this year to deliver what I predicted in my post by very soon will with their 10% and focused /planned annual growth.
You have to remember this Chinese growth is only possible with Western Finance and recall it is only because of the open markets of the affluent consumer societies of the West which these exports go to .
Germany now exports more products than the US (http://opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/09/05/do0502.xml)

Barely noticed, Germany has overtaken America to become the world's biggest single exporter, shipping the hardware that powers the rising economies of Asia and eastern Europe. Its trade surplus is now greater than that of China, Japan and India combined, reaching a staggering 16.8 billion euros in June alone. The profits made by German companies are running at over 33 per cent of national income, the highest in 40 years.

You see if you just pull the curtain back a bit and see what is really going on you will understand . Remember 95% of all Chinese exports are re-exports , exports made on demand by Western manufacturing concerns . The Chinese economy floats on a sea of western finacial assurance and this can disappear at anytime .

Germany now exports more products than the US

Barely noticed, Germany has overtaken America to become the world's biggest single exporter, shipping the hardware that powers the rising economies of Asia and eastern Europe. Its trade surplus is now greater than that of China, Japan and India combined, reaching a staggering 16.8 billion euros in June alone. The profits made by German companies are running at over 33 per cent of national income, the highest in 40 years.
Red tape 'turning best firms away from Europe (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/21/weurope21.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/01/21/ixportal.html)
Gotta love the Telegraph. There's always something there for everyone. ;)

Red tape 'turning best firms away from Europe (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/21/weurope21.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/01/21/ixportal.html)
Gotta love the Telegraph. There's always something there for everyone. ;)
And how does this story of non-European firms out spending European firms on R & D have anything to do with Germany being the biggest exporter in the world ?

Are you thinking nuclear weapons, and are you like physically prepared?
Are some people in America building like nuclear shelters etc?

Heh, no. I'm not worried about any nukes, unless it happens to be the end-of-the-world, mutually assurred destruction scenario. In that case, though, I'm still not worried as I'd most likely be dead. And seeing as I'm not religious, I've nothing to fear about death other than it sucks to happen.

Although I hear Bruce Willis (Die Hard movies, etc) has built a huge shelter in Utah somewhere and has stashed some gold bullion in it as well, heh.

Do you think America would actually learn and grow up from having a city nuked or do you think they would just react even more violently than before - close its borders and impose facism and remove freedoms?

You're correct about the violent reaction as you can see from the Iraq war and the re-election of Dubya. As for the imposing facism and loss of freedoms, that would be part of the wake-up call. If America doesn't notice something fishy there, then we're fuckin' doomed and out of this doomed and ignorant country I go.

- N

iran is pulling its foreign reserves outta europe
something like 50 billion

You have to remember this Chinese growth is only possible with Western Finance.... The Chinese economy floats on a sea of western finacial assurance and this can disappear at anytime .True, of all BRICs* at present. Casrl M but it well in Das Capital: "A capitalists will sell you the rope to hang him with."

There is, however, a limit on how much the chinese worker will produce with out wanting some reasonable fraction of the societie's production consumed in China. Their wages are already rising and other Asian countries are begining to become the cheap labor simple assembly centers. Thus domestic consumption will and is growing larger every year. Some food stuffs produced by the almost 2 billion new factory workers (former farmers in large part) streaming into the cities each month are now being supplied by Brazil etc. This influx is of course restraining the rate of salary increases, but it will solw and domestic demand will gorw more rapidly as it does. China is growing so rapidly, maily fro reason you state, that both exports and domestic consumption will continue to rise, for years.

China´s leaders have recognized that they must invest in Eduction, high value added products etc. (Buying world class professors to make 50 equal or "better than Harvard" university centers, in 5 years, continuing to import technology and whole factories, etc. to do so.) Next year Americans will be able to buy chinese-made, gas-efficient, four-passenger cars (the Cherry and the Greey, which was displayed this year in the Detroit auto show.) at 1/3 the prioce of Detroit's products. They still must buy westrn made commercial airplanes, but Brazil/China partnership is now making them in Harbin with world leading design (efficient and low cost) - Fortunately for Boeing, it will be a decade before the production volume vs Internal needsw have them competing with much lower price tag. etc.
_________________________
*Brizil,Rusia,India,China

We are talking about Iran here not Iraq Geoff .

No, you were talking about Iraq.

Unless you have proof that Iran even has insurgents. And you'd also have to implicate the Americans in there somehow, given your previous comments.

Are you on acid or something? Just curious.

:m:

Geoff

Brian Foley (ie Iran as proven in a previous thread),

You forgot:

NUKE'EM! Seems France is quite happy with this option.
You also messed up on "Iran cutting of oil supplies to the west". Maybe you should have added some clarity and said "Europe" as the US doesnt import oil from Iran. You could say, "Iran causing supply issues" or something like that.

Either way, you are Iran, so good luck with this russian roulette.