As some of you know, I do believe in a god, but not Jesus Christ or any other prophet. If I had to concider myself any one religion , it would be deist. If your not familiar with the term, please either google it or go to http://www.deism.com.

Recently I was approached by a few members of a local Baptist Church and was asked the question "Do you believe in God". Since I do, I responded "Yes". Then I was asked if I believe in Jesus. I responded "No". Then they asked me how that was possible since to them Jesus and God are the same thing. I then explained to them that I do not believe that God and a prophet are the same. I believe that prophets are merely men who try to teach good principals about life... much like the school teachers of today. Then I was told that I am Jewish. I corrected them and said that I am not. They expressed thier confusion by saying "Well, we just don't understand how you can think that way, it doesn't make any logical sense", handed me a brochure for thier church and thanked me for my time.

Well, this experience spawned some questions in my mind.

Why is it that many Christians I talk to cannot understand the concept of someone else not being Christian???

Also... heres the #1 slammer of a question... Why do YOU believe in Christianity? BUT please do not refer to or quote the Bible when answering.

This is not a debate so please refrain from trying to prove me or anyone else here wrong. This is only a couple questions in order to attempt to better understand Christian believers. If you feel so strongly that you must say something to someone else regarding what they've said in this thread, please do it privately. I would like to keep this from being locked.

Strange, I believe in Jesus, but not God.

Why is it that many Christians I talk to cannot understand the concept of someone else not being Christian???

Well, it's easy. Just ask yourself where the term "Christian" came from. Then I'm sure you'll see the light.

Baron Max

Well, it's easy. Just ask yourself where the term "Christian" came from. Then I'm sure you'll see the light.

Baron Max

The definition of who is a "Christian" varies among different Christian groups. Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and many Protestants define a Christian as anyone who has accepted the free gift who is Jesus through simple request to God or acceptance of baptism. One who enters through the sacrament of baptism. In these churches, infants who are baptized may be considered Christians. Some denominations teach that adult baptism is necessary for salvation — the transition from non-Christian to Christian (see Baptismal regeneration). They define a Christian as one who has been baptized as a repenting adult. Others, including many who use the term "born-again Christians" (John 3:3), believe that a Christian is one who believes and follows Jesus and repents of their sins, and understands that believers don't kill for any reason.

Within countries where Christianity is the historical majority religion, the term is also used by some in a casual generic sense to indicate that they are not members of nor affiliated with any other religion – therefore considering themselves Christians by default.

The first known usage of the term can be found in the New Testament of the Bible, in Acts 11:26: "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." The term was thus first used to denote those known or perceived to be disciples of Jesus. Similarly, in the two other New Testament uses of the word (Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16), it refers to the public identity of those who follow Jesus.

The earliest recorded use of the term outside the Bible was when Tacitus recorded that Nero blamed the "Christians" for the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64.

As a noun, Christian (Gr. Χριστιανός and variant Χρηστιανός, Strong's G5546) is an appellation deriving from the name "Christ" and is derived from the Greek noun Christos which means "anointed one," itself a translation of the Hebrew word Moshiach or "Messiah."

"Christian" also means an adherent to God through the son. One who has allowed god into his/her life as their personal savior. One who is of a church or other organized group within Christianity. As an adjective, the term may also describe anything associated with Christianity, or even remotely thought to be consistent with Christianity, as in "the Christian thing to do."

Just ask yourself where the term "Christian" came from

Ok got the Christ bit, but who's Ian? :D

I am what i call ''a new age Christian.''

I believe in God. But not the Biblical God, because i don't believe we have the correct translations, and therego any assumption made on theology from the Bible could be potentially wrong, and this is like playing dice...

Since I am Gay, and i know it is not of choice, then i have been bound by spirit and flesh to be of who i am, and therefore God knew exactly what he was intending for me when he made me. In this case, God is NOT biast towards a particular sexuality if he loves us equally and unconditionally.

As for Jesus, he was not God at all: But, there are many convincing arguements he was, such as John 1:1 - in fact, the proof there is quite empiracle. However, we are all Gods of our worlds. Take ''Angel,'' which means ''Messenger.'' The Fallen messengers where called ''The Nephlim,'' or also known as the ''Sons of Anak,'' or the ''Giants'' spoke of in the Bible. They are also known as the Sons of God... just as Jesus was the first begotten. This doesn't mean he was an angel though. I can give several peices of evidence to show he was a man, and was a God of his own world, just like i am, and you are, but no man can be a God over the highest God. These are my thoughts anyway...

Why is it that many Christians I talk to cannot understand the concept of someone else not being Christian???

Basically because they are ignorant of what religion is. They have most likely been brought up within an extremely closed society where everyone is just like them. They are Christian and believe in God so they think everyone who believes in God is Christian. They somehow have the ability to mentally disconnect to such an extent that they don't even realize the Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Shintoists, Muslims, and all the other myriad of theisitic believers exist.


Also... heres the #1 slammer of a question... Why do YOU believe in Christianity? BUT please do not refer to or quote the Bible when answering

Since Christianity is a Bible based religion you are moving the goalposts when you ask someone to say why they are a Christian without referencing The Bible. You have made an arbitrary rule that makes it impossible to answer your question.

It is sort of like asking someone why they think one and one is two while not allowing them to refer to number theory.

Since Christianity is a Bible based religion you are moving the goalposts when you ask someone to say why they are a Christian without referencing The Bible. You have made an arbitrary rule that makes it impossible to answer your question.

It is sort of like asking someone why they think one and one is two while not allowing them to refer to number theory.

I believe it is possible to answer if one thinks for ones self. For example, why do you like music? You don't have to refer to a specific band to answer the question.

Also for another example... why I believe in a Deist point of view. The answer to that is because after exploring all the world religions, I find myself most comfortable with Deism because it uses scientific logic. I was raised in a Christian home, but as I grew into adulthood I started studying Christianity more thoroughly, and I found that there were too many loopholes in the Bible and modern-day Christian beliefs that I did not feel comfortable following that specific religion. Instead I chose to find my own path.

I believe it is possible to answer if one thinks for ones self. For example, why do you like music? You don't have to refer to a specific band to answer the question.

Music is not based on the songs or instrumentation of a specific band. Christianity is based on the words of one, specific book, ie, The Bible. A more accurate description of what you are describing would be trying to talk about Guns n Roses without mentioning Axl Rose.

MZ3Boy84,

Seems you couldn't discuss Christianity without mentioning The Bible. "I found that there were too many loopholes in the Bible". If you can't even discuss Christianity as a subset of all religions without mentioning The Bible how can you expect someone to discuss Christianity specifically without mentioning The Bible?

MZ3Boy84,

Seems you couldn't discuss Christianity without mentioning The Bible. "I found that there were too many loopholes in the Bible". If you can't even discuss Christianity as a subset of all religions without mentioning The Bible how can you expect someone to discuss Christianity specifically without mentioning The Bible?

When I meant reffering to the bible, I was reffering to quotes such as "It says in the Bible that if I don't believe in Jesus then Im going to hell"... stuff like that.

It still doesn't matter since Christianity is a Bible based religion belief in it depends on what is in The Bible. The words of The Bible are the central core of Christianity. Were it not for The Bible no one would know about Christianity

To discuss Christianity without reference to The Bible reduces Christianity to a mere social club. If you want to discuss it as a religion you have to reference the tenets of that religion and those are found in The Bible.

To discuss Christianity without reference to The Bible reduces Christianity to a mere social club.

And is that not what most religions virtually are???

Look, I'm just trying to get people's personal opinions on why they believe what they believe... bottom line.

And is that not what most religions virtually are???

No, it is not. If you wish to seriously discuss Christianity I am more than willing to do so but not with the artificial restrictions and barriers you have set up.

I am a Freemason. That is a social/service club. I am a Christian. That is a religion. The two are quite different and my reasons for membership in each are quite different.

Look, I'm just trying to get people's personal opinions on why they believe what they believe... bottom line.

...

There are lots of reasons I believe as I believe.

1. I was raised by two parents who went to church on Sunday and taught me to believe in God.

2. I studied religion as a formal course of study and reinforced my belief not only in God but in the Christian God.

3. When I was diagnosed with cancer twenty five years ago I found great solace in reading The Bible and in having a personal relationship with God the Father and God the Son. The third part of The Trinity has always been a bit more amorphous for me.

4. I continue to read The Bible as an exercise to strengthen my faith and belief in the Christian God.

5. I attend church on Sundays and listen to sermons that strengthen my belief in the Christian God.

6. I pray daily for a stronger and firmer faith in Christianity, in the Triune God.

There are lots of reasons I believe as I believe.

1. I was raised by two parents who went to church on Sunday and taught me to believe in God.

2. I studied religion as a formal course of study and reinforced my belief not only in God but in the Christian God.

3. When I was diagnosed with cancer twenty five years ago I found great solace in reading The Bible and in having a personal relationship with God the Father and God the Son. The third part of The Trinity has always been a bit more amorphous for me.

4. I continue to read The Bible as an exercise to strengthen my faith and belief in the Christian God.

5. I attend church on Sundays and listen to sermons that strengthen my belief in the Christian God.

6. I pray daily for a stronger and firmer faith in Christianity, in the Triune God.

Ok. Good explanation. I have a question for you.

You refer to the "Christian God". In your personal belief, do you believe there is other God(s) in existance that are not Christian ie, Multiple Gods?

If not, do you believe that the "Christian God" is the same god as the Muslim God, and other personal perceptions of God IE, One God?

I believe in one God not multiple Gods. I believe that Jews and Muslims worship one part of the total Godhead, God the Father. As a Christian I worship God in his triune form.

I believe in one God not multiple Gods. I believe that Jews and Muslims worship one part of the total Godhead, God the Father. As a Christian I worship God in his triune form.

Ok. Thank you for your participation!!! Most appreciated.

Anyone else?

Also... heres the #1 slammer of a question... Why do YOU believe in Christianity? BUT please do not refer to or quote the Bible when answering.

Can't believe I'm writing this, but here goes:

Why do I believe? Hmm. That's a tough one.

Recently, I've been going through some soul-searching. I really wondered about posting this; but in the end, I just thought I should. Guess that's all. I just thought I ought to. So...

...I was never raised with religion. Not of any kind. In fact, while not being explicitly commanded not to attend any church, it was usually hinted at quite strongly that this would be considered a serious breach of offspring ethics in my family, and so I let it slide by during the formative years, since discretion is the better part of valour. Church was for funerals only; my father (an avowed communist) sometimes refused even that, and almost dodged my wedding. When I attended university, I did pursue religion for a while - to the fury of the old man. "Look, it's the Papist," was one such comment. The hard facts of life suggested to me thereafter, or I suggested to myself, that I didn't believe in anything. I told myself there was no God - even until recently I did so. Things change. It's a bit personal to get into the specifics, so let's just say I had a change of heart after a long period of consideration.

I still have to use reason to permit myself to accept anything, though; my faith...needs, if that's not too blasphemous...reasonability. Plausibility. Could there be a God? Well, I guess there could. I can't disprove God, or prove him; yet, again, I need some sort of 'evidence' to justify my faith in this being. I sort of feel that the Gospels represent "eyewitness accounts" of the events of the period - I mean, they're not terribly bad, they seem to pretty much cross-support, and to be honest we assume quite a fair bit about a lot of really ancient history from single, first- or second-hand accounts, so, well why not? What can I say? Faith, I guess.

But I still felt when I was younger (say, eight or ten) was that there was, in fact, a God. It was just a sort of emotional thing, which still strikes part of me as ridiculous. "Spiritual", I guess you could call it. (The term makes me cringe.)

I can't say where I picked it up. No one in my immediate family would have dared discuss it with me or anyone else and none of my friends talked about it, as far as I can recall. So, no idea where it came from. In point of fact, I was so completely ignorant of the Bible and it's manifold doings that when my school experimented with religious instruction in grade three and my teacher had got through the tale of Samson, I promptly stuck my hand in the air and asked "Well, what about Hercules, then? Isn't he in there?" Religious education was discontinued shortly after; given the response of my teacher and classmates, it may have been out of a sense of sheer dismay.

I digress. So I don't know where this feeling or what have you came from. It might just be that's it's difficult to explain the individual origin of a meme...yet I have faith, it would seem, that it is not so. I hope that helps somewhat; strangely, I actually feel glad to share this, which is odd.

Also, I like the "Triune" idea very much. It's really not so difficult as people make out, and it has an intellectual appeal, frankly. It's fascinating and complex but sensible. I like the idea of a God that gives me something to think about. I really like the idea; the search for its intricacy. It's odd...I kind of get a wierd happy feeling thinking about it.

So there we have it. I shared. Bit of a surprise, maybe, maybe not. Maybe I knew I was coming back here. I honestly wish I could say. I'm certainly not the best...Christian around. There. I said it. But I'm trying.

Anyway, hope that helps. Felt I should write this.

Best,

Geoff

Can't believe I'm writing this, but here goes:

Why do I believe? Hmm. That's a tough one.

Recently, I've been going through some soul-searching. I really wondered about posting this; but in the end, I just thought I should. Guess that's all. I just thought I ought to. So...

...I was never raised with religion. Not of any kind. In fact, while not being explicitly commanded not to attend any church, it was usually hinted at quite strongly that this would be considered a serious breach of offspring ethics in my family, and so I let it slide by during the formative years, since discretion is the better part of valour. Church was for funerals only; my father (an avowed communist) sometimes refused even that, and almost dodged my wedding. When I attended university, I did pursue religion for a while - to the fury of the old man. "Look, it's the Papist," was one such comment. The hard facts of life suggested to me thereafter, or I suggested to myself, that I didn't believe in anything. I told myself there was no God - even until recently I did so. Things change. It's a bit personal to get into the specifics, so let's just say I had a change of heart after a long period of consideration.

I still have to use reason to permit myself to accept anything, though; my faith...needs, if that's not too blasphemous...reasonability. Plausibility. Could there be a God? Well, I guess there could. I can't disprove God, or prove him; yet, again, I need some sort of 'evidence' to justify my faith in this being. I sort of feel that the Gospels represent "eyewitness accounts" of the events of the period - I mean, they're not terribly bad, they seem to pretty much cross-support, and to be honest we assume quite a fair bit about a lot of really ancient history from single, first- or second-hand accounts, so, well why not? What can I say? Faith, I guess.

But I still felt when I was younger (say, eight or ten) was that there was, in fact, a God. It was just a sort of emotional thing, which still strikes part of me as ridiculous. "Spiritual", I guess you could call it. (The term makes me cringe.)

I can't say where I picked it up. No one in my immediate family would have dared discuss it with me or anyone else and none of my friends talked about it, as far as I can recall. So, no idea where it came from. In point of fact, I was so completely ignorant of the Bible and it's manifold doings that when my school experimented with religious instruction in grade three and my teacher had got through the tale of Samson, I promptly stuck my hand in the air and asked "Well, what about Hercules, then? Isn't he in there?" Religious education was discontinued shortly after; given the response of my teacher and classmates, it may have been out of a sense of sheer dismay.

I digress. So I don't know where this feeling or what have you came from. It might just be that's it's difficult to explain the individual origin of a meme...yet I have faith, it would seem, that it is not so. I hope that helps somewhat; strangely, I actually feel glad to share this, which is odd.

Also, I like the "Triune" idea very much. It's really not so difficult as people make out, and it has an intellectual appeal, frankly. It's fascinating and complex but sensible. I like the idea of a God that gives me something to think about. I really like the idea; the search for its intricacy. It's odd...I kind of get a wierd happy feeling thinking about it.

So there we have it. I shared. Bit of a surprise, maybe, maybe not. Maybe I knew I was coming back here. I honestly wish I could say. I'm certainly not the best...Christian around. There. I said it. But I'm trying.

Anyway, hope that helps. Felt I should write this.

Best,

Geoff

Wow, thats deep. I'm glad you chose to share that with us.

Thanks for sharing that.

I believe in one God not multiple Gods. I believe that Jews and Muslims worship one part of the total Godhead, God the Father. As a Christian I worship God in his triune form.
*************
M*W: I'm so sorry you are worshipping a false god. There is no christian god at all!

Is there a reason you feel the necessity to be so nasty? If you don't believe in a Christian God, or any God that is fine. What was the purpose of your post directed toward me? Did you feel some compunction to inject that particular bit of nastiness or is that your usual mode of behavior?

*************
M*W: I'm so sorry you are worshipping a false god. There is no christian god at all!

Not to be contrary, but what are you basing this on?

if you are willing to admit the christian god is make up then you can worship a made up god.

it is based off of earlier pagan gods. the virgin birth, twelve disciples...the whole works.

No, I am not willing to admit that I worship a made up God.

It is amazing how nasty atheists are. I don't find any theists with the nasty streak atheists have. I guess it is something inherently lacking in the makeup of many atheists. Either that or they are so unsure of their beliefs they feel some sort of necessity to denigrate the beliefs of others in order to reinforce their own. A third possibility is that are simplyl nasty little children who don't know how to carry on a discussion in an adult manner.

You have evidence for this, I assume? I don't assume the Christian god is made up.

gods are not made up?? really? that's interesting.

so horus isn't made up? jesus christ and the virgin birth isn't made up? okey dokey.

No, I am not willing to admit that I worship a made up God.

It is amazing how nasty atheists are. I don't find any theists with the nasty streak atheists have. I guess it is something inherently lacking in the makeup of many atheists. Either that or they are so unsure of their beliefs they feel some sort of necessity to denigrate the beliefs of others in order to reinforce their own. A third possibility is that are simplyl nasty little children who don't know how to carry on a discussion in an adult manner.

Now you are being unrealistic. How is it nasty to say someone considers your god made up? because in fact it is.

not arguing against or in favor of any so-called creator. we are talking specifically of the christian god and that is definitely made up.

and as far as nasty streaks, please you are losing your credibility with that statement, their are plenty of theists that very much so have a nasty streak.

gods are not made up?? really? that's interesting.

so horus isn't made up? jesus christ and the virgin birth isn't made up? okey dokey.

Ok, prove they are. Should be easy, I guess. Which statistical test were you planning to use? Can I get the syntax?

Ok, prove they are. Should be easy, I guess. Which statistical test were you planning to use? Can I get the syntax?

You must be joking. Prove they are made up??? Prove they aren't.

If someone asserts a certain god is real and not made up. It is on them to prove it.

If they say it's a faith, then they don't now do they?

Now you are being unrealistic. How is it nasty to say someone considers your god made up? because in fact it is.

You are not saying it is your belief that the Christian God is made up. You are saying it is a fact.

I could say I think you are a four dollar whore. That is a suposition on my part and I am admitting that I could be wrong and you might not in actuality be a four dollar whore. If I state as fact that you are a four dollar whore I am not allowing for the possibility that you are not.

The difference between the two statements is not all that difficult to grasp.

I believe in one God not multiple Gods. I believe that Jews and Muslims worship one part of the total Godhead, God the Father. As a Christian I worship God inhis triune form.
**********&***
M*W: How do you know this god exists? You can't sense him. He's not in any case a reality. Why do you think this god of yours exists?

You are not saying it is your belief that the Christian God is made up. You are saying it is a fact.

I could say I think you are a four dollar whore. That is a suposition on my part and I am admitting that I could be wrong and you might not in actuality be a four dollar whore. If I state as fact that you are a four dollar whore I am not allowing for the possibility that you are not.

The difference between the two statements is not all that difficult to grasp.

LOL, you are showing your true christian hateful colors so well. Your analogy is ridiculous.

A god is nothing but pure speculation and at best a belief, not a fact. If you can't grasp that, then you are very lost.

And maybe if you actually researched the historical background of your religion, you might understand how it is 'made' up from earlier myths or 'personality' traits superimposed onto your god.

As I stated, i can't refute a nonexistence of any type of creator or creators. I'm merely pointing out the historical relevance in making up your god, it's personality and religion.

How do you know the universe began with a Big Bang that had no cause other than itself, in other words that simply happened and created everything out of nothing?

There are things I cannot prove that I yet believe. I cannot prove my wife loves me yet I believe it with all my heart.

I believe in the existence of God because I find that existence more believable than the alternative that everything that happens and has happened is simply the result of chance.

I haven't shown any hatred, Christian or otherwise, Peta9. I am simply trying to show you the difference between saying "I believe something to be", and "something is". I don't know how much simpler I can make it.

You haven't said you don't believe in the existence of God. You have said there is no God. I say you are wrong. If the non-existence of God is so evident that you can state it without equvication you should have no trouble proving that God does not exist.

I await your proof.

How do you know the universe began with a Big Bang that had no cause other than itself, in other words that simply happened and created everything out of nothing?

There are things I cannot prove that I yet believe. I cannot prove my wife loves me yet I believe it with all my heart.

I believe in the existence of God because I find that existence more believable than the alternative that everything that happens and has happened is simply the result of chance.

I don't but I can't call it a fact.

I haven't shown any hatred, Christian or otherwise, Peta9. I am simply trying to show you the difference between saying "I believe something to be", and "something is". I don't know how much simpler I can make it.

You haven't said you don't believe in the existence of God. You have said there is no God. I say you are wrong. If the non-existence of God is so evident that you can state it without equvication you should have no trouble proving that God does not exist.

I await your proof.

Bull, I never said there is no creator or creators. I don't know that. I just don't believe that religion is necessarily on the mark either when it's manmade. No one knows if there was a creator, no creator or if there were many creators. Or even creators have anything to do with this universe. Possibly this universe is just an accident.

It is still pure speculation or a belief at this juncture, not a fact.

How is it nasty to say someone considers your god made up? because in fact it is.

if you are willing to admit the christian god is make up then you can worship a made up god.

we are talking specifically of the christian god and that is definitely made up.

Okay, you have said there is no Christian God. You haven't said you don't believe in a Christian God or that you question the existence of a Christian God. You have stated unequivically that there is no Christian God. Since you do not know if a Christian God does or does not exist you cannot be intellectually honest when you make those statements. They are your opinion not proven fact.

Okay, you have said there is no Christian God. You haven't said you don't believe in a Christian God or that you question the existence of a Christian God. You have stated unequivically that there is no Christian God. Since you do not know if a Christian God does or does not exist you cannot be intellectually honest when you make those statements. They are your opinion not proven fact.

I can prove the christian god is made up because it is a direct copy of earlier pagan gods and they were made up. It's a concept.

A belief is not a fact. A belief could in fact be true but it is still a belief until it is proven.

That's why even your religious text states you must go on "faith." Geez...

Peta9,

I know all about the parallels between Christianity and other religions. I spent four years studying religion as a formal course of study. I can discuss Astarte, Moloch, the Greek gods, their Roman counterparts, the semi-divinity of Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Since religion is an attempt to give mankind a set of moral precepts by which to live I would fully expect there to be parallels. The fact that there are in no way lessens my belief in the Christian God.

On that note I am signing off until tomorrow and going to bed.

Peta9,

I know all about the parallels between Christianity and other religions. I spent four years studying religion as a formal course of study. I can discuss Astarte, Moloch, the Greek gods, their Roman counterparts, the semi-divinity of Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Since religion is an attempt to give mankind a set of moral precepts by which to live I would fully expect there to be parallels. The fact that there are in no way lessens my belief in the Christian God.

You can believe to your heart's content. I believe in other things tentatively that i can't prove either. But i know I can't call it a fact or true and insist it is. I may think it is because it's pure speculation on my part but that's it.

PLEASE READ THE RED TEXT IN THE FIRST POST! THANKS...

-thread admin lol

oh sorry, i just replied to the last post i read. i'm outie.

Furthermore, I understand this whole crap was started by Medicine Woman's comment about worshipping a false god etc etc... but please... I created this thread in order for Christians to share thier beliefs in helping me further understand Christianity. Please take your "who's right and wrong" debate crap elsewhere. I made it clear in the first post my guidelines for this thread, and though they are not mandatory, I do expect people to have the descency and respect to follow them. Thanks again.

If one likes, even the Trinity is flawed theologically under the right light. It should be really the 9 in one, since God is written to have seven spirits.

Strange, I believe in Jesus, but not God. But Jesus is God....just ask sandy!

You must be joking. Prove they are made up??? Prove they aren't.

Four eyewitness testimonies from the same period. That's enough to convict for murder these days.

And yeah, there is a certain faith to it. A personal feeling. If you don't have it, that's your affair. MZ was asking for statements on belief.

Four eyewitness testimonies from the same period. That's enough to convict for murder these days.

And yeah, there is a certain faith to it. A personal feeling. If you don't have it, that's your affair. MZ was asking for statements on belief.


That is your belief. As for your limited understanding, a personal feeling is different for everybody. I just don't have 'personal' feelings or resonate with your flavor of faith. Doesn't mean others don't have spirituality or personal feelings. What an insanely ignorant but quite typical thing for a christian to say and believe. LOL.

That is your belief. As for your limited understanding, a personal feeling is different for everybody. I just don't have 'personal' feelings or resonate with your flavor of faith. Doesn't mean others don't have spirituality or personal feelings. What an insanely ignorant but quite typical thing for a christian to say and believe. LOL.

And what a nasty and typical thing for an atheist to say.

The thread was started so that people could explain their reasons for being Christian not so some nasty little person could keep hopping in to insult the beliefs of others. If you wish to insult Christians why not start a thread of your own rather than trying to hijack this one?

And what a nasty and typical thing for an atheist to say.

The thread was started so that people could explain their reasons for being Christian not so some nasty little person could keep hopping in to insult the beliefs of others. If you wish to insult Christians why not start a thread of your own rather than trying to hijack this one?

Intellectually just as dishonest. Everything I said was true. He implied others do not have spirituality if they are not 'christian'. That was ridiculous and 'nasty', touche. If he didn't want to be corrected, he should not have said it. Simple as that.

There was nothing nasty about my comment, which speaks of your own hidden nastiness.

He implied no such thing. You are looking for an argument so you see slights where none exist.

He said being a Christian depended in part on faith. He did not say others could not also have faith.

All you have done since you first began posting in this thread is post nasty little, anti-Christian comments.

He implied no such thing. You are looking for an argument so you see slights where none exist.

He said being a Christian depended in part on faith. He did not say others could not also have faith.

All you have done since you first began posting in this thread is post nasty little, anti-Christian comments.

I posted facts. And he most certainly implied it.

Maybe because i have too much experience with the nastiness of christians.

Alright, i'm done.

It's not my thread.

You posted what you feel are facts. You perceived that he implied it because that is what you wanted to perceive.

If you are truely finished posting in this thread that would be great since you obviously have no idea of the purpose of the thread and are posting only to be nasty.

You posted what you feel are facts. You perceived that he implied it because that is what you wanted to perceive.

If you are truely finished posting in this thread that would be great since you obviously have no idea of the purpose of the thread and are posting only to be nasty.

it's interesting you say the last few posts were nasty but not his reply to me in the slightest. Which it was clear what he was implying.

You easily turn a blind eye to your own. No more credibility or trustworthiness. It speaks for itself.

There are lots of reasons I believe as I believe.

1. I was raised by two parents who went to church on Sunday and taught me to believe in God.

That one reason alone, indoctrination, is sufficient in answering the question.

There is little other reason to wonder why Christians cannot understand why anyone else is not Christian when indoctrination from early childhood instills into the child the invisible and undetectable are ultimate powers in the universe.

And one need not separate Christianity from this form of child abuse. Most other cults are pretty much the same.

That is your belief. As for your limited understanding, a personal feeling is different for everybody.

Excuse me: please don't dare to try and compare your intellect or education with my own. I raised a quite simple case that you should be able to refute; yet, you do not seem interested in its pursuit, and I have attempted to remain polite. I'm amused that someone who complains of ignorant insanity should object so strongly to a statement of personal belief. :D

I just don't have 'personal' feelings or resonate with your flavor of faith. Doesn't mean others don't have spirituality or personal feelings.

I didn't imply or state that it did. I said "it", referring to my form of feeling. Please read.

What an insanely ignorant but quite typical thing for a christian to say and believe. LOL.

Yet, I said no such thing; this is your own divination. I believe you raised the concept of "ignorance" just a moment ago. Specks and planks, peta.

That one reason alone, indoctrination, is sufficient in answering the question.

There is little other reason to wonder why Christians cannot understand why anyone else is not Christian when indoctrination from early childhood instills into the child the invisible and undetectable are ultimate powers in the universe.

And one need not separate Christianity from this form of child abuse. Most other cults are pretty much the same.

Please don't compare religion with child abuse; the two are not synonymous.

Note, too: this "indoctrination" is quite readily thrown off, Q, where personal choice warrants.

Excuse me: please don't dare to try and compare your intellect or education with my own. I raised a quite simple case that you should be able to refute; yet, you do not seem interested in its pursuit, and I have attempted to remain polite. I'm amused that someone who complains of ignorant insanity should object so strongly to a statement of personal belief. :D



I didn't imply or state that it did. I said "it", referring to my form of feeling. Please read.



Yet, I said no such thing; this is your own divination. I believe you raised the concept of "ignorance" just a moment ago. Specks and planks, peta.

And yeah, there is a certain faith to it. A personal feeling. If you don't have it, that's your affair.

Your dishonesty is trifling. You post most certainly implied a personal feeling, nothing more. If you want to admit you were unclear, then so be it. Don't blame me for how your post read. And your "dare" and dominating, supremacist attitude with me is speaking volumes of your religious affiliation. lol

I can dare to say whatever I want. You are not the boss over me thiest.

To all who had a sincere interest in posting in response to the ORIGINAL post:

Thank you for your responses, they are much appreciated. But do to the apparent unreversable thread jacking, I've requested this thread be closed.

Again, I made it clear in the beginning that if anyone had anything to say to another member in opposition to thier posts, to please handle it privately in order to keep from veerinng off topic.

If anyone else would like to respond to my original post, feel free to PM me. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

So yall can debate away about who's right and who's wrong until its locked. Im outta here.

That one reason alone, indoctrination, is sufficient in answering the question.

There is little other reason to wonder why Christians cannot understand why anyone else is not Christian when indoctrination from early childhood instills into the child the invisible and undetectable are ultimate powers in the universe.

And one need not separate Christianity from this form of child abuse. Most other cults are pretty much the same.


Q,

I listed quite a few reasons why I am a Christian. Being raised by Christian parents was only one of the reasons I mentioned. I know lots of adults who do not follow the religion of their parents so your assumption is simply wrong.

You also seem to think that those of us who were raised in Christian households cannot fathom that someone else might not be Christian. That is far from the truth. I know quite well that there are people who are not religius and that there are people who are religious but not Christian. I have family members who are atheist, family members who are Jewish and family members who are Christian. My youngest brother is dating a woman from Turkey who is Muslim. All these people are, in my estimation, good people, both the Christians and non-Christians.

You are exagerating in the extreme when you say those who are Christian cannot understand how others might not be Christian.

Please don't compare religion with child abuse; the two are not synonymous.

The indoctrination of children into their parents religion is clearly child abuse. That is made evident in the fact that parents (and the church) preach versions of cosmological and biological creationism, both of which have been shown to be false, yet are instilled as facts into the minds of children.

I listed quite a few reasons why I am a Christian. Being raised by Christian parents was only one of the reasons I mentioned. I know lots of adults who do not follow the religion of their parents so your assumption is simply wrong.

Indoctrination is the one reason you are a Christian. The fact that you failed to use critical thinking skills into your adult life while others did does not preclude that fact.

You also seem to think that those of us who were raised in Christian households cannot fathom that someone else might not be Christian. That is far from the truth. I know quite well that there are people who are not religius and that there are people who are religious but not Christian. I have family members who are atheist, family members who are Jewish and family members who are Christian. My youngest brother is dating a woman from Turkey who is Muslim. All these people are, in my estimation, good people, both the Christians and non-Christians.

You are exagerating in the extreme when you say those who are Christian cannot understand how others might not be Christian.[/QUOTE]

I applaud the diversity in your family, which again, does not preclude the fact there does not exist such diversity in other families. But then, I don't think I ever made that blanket statement nor is it an exaggeration.

You are exagerating in the extreme when you say those who are Christian cannot understand how others might not be Christian.

I never said that. I said just the opposite, that Christians can understand how someone else might not believe in the Christian God.

Your dishonesty is trifling. You post most certainly implied a personal feeling, nothing more.

Precisely my point. It's like you understand, then don't.

And your "dare" and dominating, supremacist attitude with me is speaking volumes of your religious affiliation.

LOL - you accused me of ignorance. Now, all I'm doing is merely reminding you that I'm your intellectual superior. I don't have any particular sense of pride in that specifically; I just wanted you to become aware of the facts around your comments so you could avoid unfounded insults. If you want niceness, then be so good as to return it, or refrain from commenting; you'll be expected to maintain a degree of civility if you want to discuss anything. I reiterate that the thread was not about your own beliefs, but about what makes Christians have faith in their religion. Thanks.

The indoctrination of children into their parents religion is clearly child abuse. That is made evident in the fact that parents (and the church) preach versions of cosmological and biological creationism, both of which have been shown to be false, yet are instilled as facts into the minds of children.

Neither my parents, nor my church. ;) And, interestingly, I wasn't indoctrinated in anything except neoDarwinianism, of which I remain - and always will - an adherent.

Precisely my point. It's like you understand, then don't.



LOL - you accused me of ignorance. Now, all I'm doing is merely reminding you that I'm your intellectual superior. I don't have any particular sense of pride in that specifically; I just wanted you to become aware of the facts around your comments so you could avoid unfounded insults. If you want niceness, then be so good as to return it, or refrain from commenting; you'll be expected to maintain a degree of civility if you want to discuss anything. I reiterate that the thread was not about your own beliefs, but about what makes Christians have faith in their religion. Thanks.



Neither my parents, nor my church. ;) And, interestingly, I wasn't indoctrinated in anything except neoDarwinianism, of which I remain - and always will - an adherent.

That you think you are my intellectual superior is laughable and ludicrous. It's as if your religiosity is not clouding but actually exposing your egomania like a presumed authority head from the man in the sky.

Let me try to explain this again, it's very simple if you were honest with yourself. Your post clearly read as in like "personal feelings", not your personal feelings. And you think you are intellectually superior and stupidly try to pretend you communicated well a point that you didn't and keep arguing and defending yourself over?? LOL.

So disagreement is now always an "insult" too. LOL

I didn't disagree about a belief, I posted a fact. There is a difference. If you were intellectually superior, you could make out the distinction. But evidently you can't. I never said that religion or the christian god doesn't exist because they have been created. I said they were made up and that is a FACT. Learn history and you will see. I never said that there was no possibility of a creator/s, just that gods are made by men just like all the gods in history.

Being religious doesn't excuse you of FACTS.

You can believe in your god etc but FACTS are still FACTS.

Well, I'm sorry, peta, but I have more education and a stronger intellect. I'm sorry. I don't think less of you for it, but please don't presume to try and call me "ignorant", thanks. You're not helping your argument at all.

Now: your fact. Can you demonstrate, unequivocally, your proof for "no god". I have a fairly direct null position here regarding what I believe is the existence for one, and I've already posted one element of a basis for my belief, so you should be able to disprove it quite quickly if you're as in command of the "FACTS" as I. So, you have three choices:

i) do so.

ii) take up an interest in Stephen Jay Gould and something called "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", or

iii) stop trolling a thread about personal belief, which the author didn't want to turn into a debate. Let's not make this official, shall we?

Also:

I never said that religion or the christian god doesn't exist because they have been created. I said they were made up and that is a FACT. Learn history and you will see.

These points are contradictory. Please correct them.

Well, I'm sorry, peta, but I have more education and a stronger intellect. I'm sorry. I don't think less of you for it, but please don't presume to try and call me "ignorant", thanks. You're not helping your argument at all.

Now: your fact. Can you demonstrate, unequivocally, your proof for "no god". I have a fairly direct null position here regarding what I believe is the existence for one, and I've already posted one element of a basis for my belief, so you should be able to disprove it quite quickly if you're as in command of the "FACTS" as I. So, you have three choices:

i) do so.

ii) take up an interest in Stephen Jay Gould and something called "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", or

iii) stop trolling a thread about personal belief, which the author didn't want to turn into a debate. Let's not make this official, shall we?

Also:



These points are contradictory. Please correct them.

Obviously if you want to evade the point, this will just be a wild goose chase.

I never unequivocally said there is no possibility of a "god" or "creator". We're talking about manmade gods and thier characteristics, powers attributed to them etc. It's called creating a god, far from debating whether there is a creator and what it is.

My points were not contradictory.

Obviously if you want to evade the point, this will just be a wild goose chase.

:rolleyes: Insults and demands and obstruction, oh my.

I never unequivocally said there is no possibility of a "god" or "creator". We're talking about manmade gods and thier characteristics, powers attributed to them etc. It's called creating a god, far from debating whether there is a creator and what it is.

Well, I don't believe it's manmade. If you do, please prove so, or refrain from discussing your position as fact. Thanks.

My points were not contradictory.

Then illustrate how not.

Peta, I sense I'm wasting my time with you. You seem a bit too preoccupied with the chip on your shoulder, to the extent that the expression of another faith by other people is somehow offensive to you. Or, possibly, your command of the language is insufficient to the task. Either way, I'll check back in with you when you have something intelligent to offer.

Thanks.

I never said that. I said just the opposite, that Christians can understand how someone else might not believe in the Christian God.

Uh, if you look up at post #66, you'll find that you DID say that.

:rolleyes: Insults and demands and obstruction, oh my.



Well, I don't believe it's manmade. If you do, please prove so, or refrain from discussing your position as fact. Thanks.



Then illustrate how not.

Peta, I sense I'm wasting my time with you. You seem a bit too preoccupied with the chip on your shoulder, to the extent that the expression of another faith by other people is somehow offensive to you. Or, possibly, your command of the language is insufficient to the task. Either way, I'll check back in with you when you have something intelligent to offer.

Thanks.

Wow, this is where the line between fact and, belief and speculation blur for theists.

Very good example. How can a god assigned personal characteristics, as well as borrowed from pagan myths before not be manmade? Don't hurt yourself trying to answer.

I'm not disputing the faith in your possible god and it's likely limited window of perspective but possible kernels of truth. I'm just pointing out that it is not a fact but a faith and is manmade.

I can believe that aliens exist in another universe, but it's still a faith. If I attribute characteristics and abilities etc now and create one in concept, it's manmade and a faith that it will be true or partially turn out to be true. A faith.

That was all my point.