I've made my view pretty clear on the threat posed by AQ and other islamist terrorist "organisations" that specifically target the west several times on these boards - specifically I think that the threat they pose is as close to non-existent as to be irrelevant.
Indeed the fact that they have only executed 1 successful operation in 5 years worldwide - despite a supposed global network and access to huge resources and manpower - pretty much proves the case.
so here's a poll to see what you guys think.

If you have any evidence to the contrary I'd be very interested to see it.

Cesspool imo.

If you have any evidence to the contrary I'd be very interested to see it.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/9-11.jpg

P.S. Stop spamming the forums with your nonsense.

I've made my view pretty clear on the threat posed by AQ and other islamist terrorist "organisations" that specifically target the west several times on these boards - specifically I think that the threat they pose is as close to non-existent as to be irrelevant.
Indeed the fact that they have only executed 1 successful operation in 5 years worldwide - despite a supposed global network and access to huge resources and manpower - pretty much proves the case.
so here's a poll to see what you guys think.

If you have any evidence to the contrary I'd be very interested to see it.


it would be interesting to see how many attacks there would be if the UK and US suspended all intelligence/military activity for a week.i suspect rather a lot.

it would be interesting to see how many attacks there would be if the UK and US suspended all intelligence/military activity for a week.i suspect rather a lot.

I suspect no change - its not as if we have caught / are catching any genuine terorrists on a regular basis is it? - you can't catch what doesn't exist afterall.

I suspect no change - its not as if we have caught / are catching any genuine terorrists on a regular basis is it? - you can't catch what doesn't exist afterall.

really?
i was under the impression that the military are killing quite a few terrorists/insurgents in iraq and afghanistan.and hardly a month goes by without news of the british police apprehending a wanna be terrorist.

The threat is relatively small. It still needs to be taken seriously, because of the threat of nuclear terrorism, but for the most part it has been exaggerated for political gain.

I suspect no change - its not as if we have caught / are catching any genuine terorrists on a regular basis is it? - you can't catch what doesn't exist afterall.

Don't be stupid, terrorism and terrorists obviously exist. What's been overblown is there influence and strength. These are people with no army, no navy, no country, etc. 9/11 was a fluke caused by government incompetence, not a testament to the terrorists' ability to get us. They got lucky.

The idea that we could possibly lose a "war" with them that could lead to us losing our western values, ideals, culture, is completely ridiculous.

There's around 3,000 fatal car accidents each month. The real terrorists are GM & Honda;)

really?
i was under the impression that the military are killing quite a few terrorists/insurgents in iraq and afghanistan.and hardly a month goes by without news of the british police apprehending a wanna be terrorist.

Insurgents aren't necessarily terrorists, you can't equate the two. Some of the insurgents being killed are poor Iraqis who do it for money or food.

Insurgents aren't necessarily terrorists, you can't equate the two. Some of the insurgents being killed are poor Iraqis who do it for money or food.
im not talking about the people who target the military,i was just using the term for convenience.i am,however, going to assume that a percentage of the insurgents killed are also terrorists.

really?
i was under the impression that the military are killing quite a few terrorists/insurgents in iraq and afghanistan.and hardly a month goes by without news of the british police apprehending a wanna be terrorist.

There's a big difference between nationalist freedom fighters like many iraqui insurgents are and organised international terrorist groups - I thought I made the disctinction clear in my post.

hardly a month goes by without (very quiet) news of the release of said terror suspects due to an absence of any evidence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4226097.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/mar/09/alqaida.september11
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/oct/09/terrorism.politics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2004/may/02/uknews

besides that we are still yet to catch ANYONE over here with any GENUINE link to an international group - they are mostly disgruntled individuals and idiots - like the shoe bomber and Exeter bomber (who were both of those combined) - hardly evidence of the actions of a highly organised international group with sleeper cells in every city ready to strike at any moment- like we are told.
Fuck! I lived a with proper terrorist threat from the IRA every day for nearly 15 years when I lived in London -I know a real one when I see one pal - and this is not the real McCoy.

Indeed the fact that they have only executed 1 successful operation in 5 years worldwide - despite a supposed global network and access to huge resources and manpower - pretty much proves the case.
1992: Yemen hotel bombings
1993: First WTC bombing
1996: Khobar Towers bombing
1998: Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings
2000: USS Cole bombing
2001: 9/11

Operation Enduring Freedom put an end to all that by functionally wrecking al-Qaeda's financial and logistical support network and running the extemist douchebags who were harboring them out of town, but before the west got officially sick of their bullshit and laid the smack down they were significantly more capable than you are giving them credit for.

1992: Yemen hotel bombings
1993: First WTC bombing
1996: Khobar Towers bombing
1998: Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings
2000: USS Cole bombing
2001: 9/11

Operation Enduring Freedom put an end to all that by functionally wrecking al-Qaeda's financial and logistical support network and running the extemist douchebags who were harboring them out of town, but before the west got officially sick of their bullshit and laid the smack down they were significantly more capable than you are giving them credit for.

I'd agree that what little threat AQ posed before before and after 9/11 was entirely snuffed out in Afghanistan - but to suggest that 5 successful operations in 18 years is representative of a "significantly capable" organisation is stretching things a long way beyond breaking point - you have to have a pretty desperate need for an enemy to draw that conclusion.
Lets not also forget that any connection between AQ and the USS Cole has yet to be properly established - the Khobar Towers definitely wasn't, and that takes us down to 3 in 18 years


edit - oops can't count - 6 in 18 years not 5 - and missed out the Yemen hotel Bombing - US congress admits no evidence of involvement of AQ - although despite this admission it has been retconned as an operation that OBL was involved in - despite the admission of lack of evidence - so we are still down to 3 in 18 years

There's a big difference between nationalist freedom fighters like many iraqui insurgents are and organised international terrorist groups - I thought I made the disctinction clear in my post.


LOL, America comes in and boots the dictator out, and Iraq finally has their first democratic elections in decades.
Do you think those "freedom fighters" you talk of will hold democratic elections if they take over, and keep a democracy ?
Do you think those "freedom fighters" you talk of will let people live the way they want to, have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc.... ?

LOL, America comes in and boots the dictator out, and Iraq finally has their first democratic elections in decades.
Do you think those "freedom fighters" you talk of will hold democratic elections if they take over, and keep a democracy ?
Do you think those "freedom fighters" you talk of will let people live the way they want to, have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc.... ?

I'm not condoning what they are doing Cazzo - merely pointing out what they are, and what they are not.
Some people have very funny ideas about what freedom is and means - look at the patriot Act for example

I'm not condoning what they are doing Cazzo - merely pointing out what they are, and what they are not.
Some people have very funny ideas about what freedom is and means - look at the patriot Act for example

The patriot act isn't suppose to represent freedom; it's merely a tool to spy on terror suspects. Although some people have politicized to sound like they're spying on "everyone". If anyone abuses the patriot act, they should pay the price.

How would anyone know?

I'd agree that what little threat AQ posed before before and after 9/11 was entirely snuffed out in Afghanistan - but to suggest that 5 successful operations in 18 years is representative of a "significantly capable" organisation is stretching things a long way beyond breaking point - you have to have a pretty desperate need for an enemy to draw that conclusion.
Lets not also forget that any connection between AQ and the USS Cole has yet to be properly established - the Khobar Towers definitely wasn't, and that takes us down to 3 in 18 years

No it don't.

August 1982: Honolulu, Hawaii. Pan Am airplane. Bomb 1 killed, several injured Palestinian terrorist Mohammad Rashid

April 1983: Beirut, U.S. Embassy Suicide car bomb 63 killed Radical Shiite Muslim group takes credit

October 1983: Beirut, U.S. Marine barracks Bomb 241 killed Lebanese Party of God faction

December 1983: Kuwait City, U.S. Embassy Suicide truck bomb Six killed; dozens injured 17 pro-Iranian terrorists convicted

September 1984: Beirut, U.S. embassy Suicide car bomb 16 killed Islamic Jihad claims responsibility

April 1985: Spain, Restaurant near U.S. Air Base Bomb 17 Killed

June 1985: TWA flight 847 Hijacking to Beirut One killed Lebanese Party of God faction

October 1985: Egyptian coast, Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro Hostage situation One killed Palestine Liberation Front

November 1985: Egypt Air flight 648 Hijacking to Malta 60 killed Abu Nidal's Arab Revolutionary Command

April 1986: West Berlin night club Bomb Three killed, 150 injured A Libyan diplomat, two Palestinians and two Germans

April 1986: Rome to Athens TWA flight Bomb Four killed Mohammed Rashid, Palestinian terrorist, members of Iraqi backed May 15 organization

February 1988: Southern Lebanon Kidnapping One U.S. Marine executed Lebanese Party of God

December 1988: Lockerbie, Scotland, Pan Am flight 103 Bomb 270 killed Libyan intelligence agents

Feb 26 1993: USA, NYC, World Trade Center A bomb planted in an underground car parked at the World Trade Center 6 killed, 1000 injured Four Muslim fundamentalists are convicted of conspiracy and other charges related to the bombing, thought to have been ordered by Saudi terror master Osama bin Laden. In 1998, the so-called mastermind, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, is convicted and sentenced to life plus 240 years in prison.

March 1995: Karachi, Pakistan, U.S. Consulate Murder Two American diplomats killed Possible retaliation for World Trade Center bombing conviction

November 1995: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, U.S. military headquarters Bomb Seven killed Four anti-royal Saudi Arabian dissidents, possible connections to Party of God an Iran; beheaded in Saudi Arabia

June 1996: Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, Khobar Towers Truck bomb 19 U.S. airmen killed Unknown

November 1997: Karachi, Pakistan Murder of American oil-company employees Five killed Possible revenge for U.S. conviction of Pakistani for murders of two CIA agents

August 1998: Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, U.S. embassies Simultaneous bombings 263 killed, 5000 injured Possibly Osama bin Laden, Saudi financier

October 2000: The Destroyer USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden Bomb blast 17 killed

September 11, 2001:
USA, NYC, World Trade Center, Pentagon, Pensylvania Airplane crashes Over 6000 killed, thousands injured Possibly Osama Bin Laden with the help of the Taliban and international cells and states.

No it don't.



You're right -according to your list AQ are even less of a threat - 3 operations in 26 years

seriously though what does your list show us

1. Before the war on terror had even started they had an almost complete inability to penetrate the security of a western power- most attacks took place overseas.

2. a good proportion of the attacks were not terrorist operations - but "legitimate" operations against military personnel - so they were military/para military ops - not terrorist ops

3. several disperate groups responsibe - no single dominant organisation - no evidence of global axis of evil

4. there's still not many - the IRA would carry out that many in a year

conclusion - nothing for a grown man to fear

Cazzo and Oilismastery however are still permitted to quake in the size sixes their mom bought them.

The patriot act isn't suppose to represent freedom; it's merely a tool to spy on terror suspects. Although some people have politicized to sound like they're spying on "everyone". If anyone abuses the patriot act, they should pay the price.
The patriot act is crafted in such a way that it's impossible to find out if they're abusing it. Every investigation to date has been brick walled and everyone involved refuses to discuss it under oath. They won't even agree to releasing a transcript of what was said. Mean time, the whole point of the patriot act was to sidestep judicial oversight and have a free hand at surveilling anyone they want.

What was wrong with requiring government agencies to get a warrant within 72 hours of tapping a phone? At least that offered some system of checks and balances to make sure power wasn't abused. Now it's being done en masse behind closed doors with no judicial oversight and no accountability.

As far as australia is concerned no i dont think we needed to worry at all. Our policy of protection by keeping all our work behind the sceans was working until howard decided to brown nose the US.

as for now though i think the chances are still miniscule, actually the chances of another port authur are higher and the chances of pandemic flu is WAY more scary to me than the risk of a terrioust atack

I'd agree that what little threat AQ posed before before and after 9/11 was entirely snuffed out in Afghanistan - but to suggest that 5 successful operations in 18 years is representative of a "significantly capable" organisation is stretching things a long way beyond breaking point - you have to have a pretty desperate need for an enemy to draw that conclusion.
Lets not also forget that any connection between AQ and the USS Cole has yet to be properly established - the Khobar Towers definitely wasn't, and that takes us down to 3 in 18 years


edit - oops can't count - 6 in 18 years not 5 - and missed out the Yemen hotel Bombing - US congress admits no evidence of involvement of AQ - although despite this admission it has been retconned as an operation that OBL was involved in - despite the admission of lack of evidence - so we are still down to 3 in 18 years
Read Looming Tower. The Yemen hotel bombings were intended to target US Marines in their way to Somalia. While the attacks were not successful in that they did not result in the deaths of Americans, al-Qaeda did not think so. They regarded them as a victory. Regardless, what is critical to note about them is that they are symbolic as the birth of the today's al-Qaeda, in that it was the first time they targeted civilians rather than military elements on a battlefield. And the Cole bombing was absolutely the work of al-Qaeda. If Looming Tower doesn't end up convincing you, maybe the 9/11 Commission Report will. After his success against the mighty US Navy, Bin Laden and his ilk were so emboldened that they began to plot an attack against the US homeland itself. Just over a year later, there we were.

In any case, I'm not so intent on talking about the specifics. I'm trying to understand how you can say that six attacks - or even three - in eleven years (1992-2001?), all of which occurred across international borders and with a good amount of logistical coordination and bankrolling, are not indicative of a terrorist organization that is significantly capable. Especially when, after 1998, OBL's name was all over classified US intel wires and every military installation had been at an elevated THREATCON and remained so until, well, right now.

By what metric do you judge?

I'd agree that what little threat AQ posed before before and after 9/11 was entirely snuffed out in Afghanistan - but to suggest that 5 successful operations in 18 years is representative of a "significantly capable" organisation is stretching things a long way beyond breaking point - you have to have a pretty desperate need for an enemy to draw that conclusion.

You seem to fail to grasp the impact 9/11 had on America and the world. It destroyed the financial markets and changed the mindset of nearly every western nation. But yeah, you're right. It was no biggie...


Lets not also forget that any connection between AQ and the USS Cole has yet to be properly established - the Khobar Towers definitely wasn't, and that takes us down to 3 in 18 years

The AQ connection to the Cole bombing is fact. Khobar Towers, however, is more likely Iranian.

You seem to fail to grasp the impact 9/11 had on America and the world. It destroyed the financial markets and changed the mindset of nearly every western nation. But yeah, you're right. It was no biggie.

Certainly 911 had a huge impact, that's how organisations like Islamic Jihad who were the most likely group resopnsible for the attack operate - they lack the manpower and resource for regular attacks and the kind of drawn out terrorist campaign on foreign soil that we used to see from the likes of the IRA - the best they can hope for is a headline grabber every 5 years or so - and a few less spectacular paramilitary operations on their own soil every 2 or 3 - which going by the evidence of their activity we have so far, is exaclty what is happening.

If I was a serviceman stationed in the ME, I'd certainly be on my guard - but a regular citizen living in a western city has got more to fear from lighting strikes than islamist terrorists.

financial markets destroyed? nonsense - it wasa setback - no more

In terms of changing the mindset of the USA I'd beg to differ - the document detailing PNAC had already been drawn up - 911 merely provided an opportunity to implement it (and no I'm not calling conspiracy here)

Read Looming Tower.

I'd love to - in the meantime I suggest you watch this - I'd be interested to hear what you think:

http://video.google.co.uk/url?docid=2798679275960015727&esrc=sr5&ev=v&len=3552&q=%22the+power+of+nightmares%22&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.co.uk%2Fvideoplay %3Fdocid%3D2798679275960015727&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D2798679275960015727% 26q%3D%2522the%2Bpower%2Bof%2Bnightmares%2522%26to tal%3D481%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3 Dsearch%26plindex%3D4%26hl%3Den-GB&usg=AL29H206TvGWJ9WwT1DecX7k-JFmUZD-MA

http://video.google.co.uk/url?docid=4602171665328041876&esrc=sr2&ev=v&len=3553&q=%22the+power+of+nightmares%22&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.co.uk%2Fvideoplay %3Fdocid%3D4602171665328041876&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D4602171665328041876% 26q%3D%2522the%2Bpower%2Bof%2Bnightmares%2522%26to tal%3D481%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3 Dsearch%26plindex%3D1%26hl%3Den-GB&usg=AL29H21AVoObsEni1mNlVB70FHiZh0QsbA

http://video.google.co.uk/url?docid=2081592330319789254&esrc=sr6&ev=v&len=3581&q=%22the+power+of+nightmares%22&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.co.uk%2Fvideoplay %3Fdocid%3D2081592330319789254&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D2081592330319789254% 26q%3D%2522the%2Bpower%2Bof%2Bnightmares%2522%26to tal%3D481%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3 Dsearch%26plindex%3D5%26hl%3Den-GB&usg=AL29H22qnaGpb5Bpm2dvDTvFqwR5sWS7zA