Hi all, I'm new to the forum. I've been reading a couple of really interesting threads you guys got going on here. ie. Time Slips (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=48122) and spoon bending (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=43878)

I've noticed some of you seeking real tested evidence of such PK/TK abilities. Here is something that you may find of interest. This is a small peice taken from the Teleportation Physics Study by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory in August 2004 (http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf) The full section on PK Teleportation starts on page 55 and I recommend reading it, here is the piece I found most interesting.


"The Chinese papers are all extremely interesting and very well written, and they show photographs and schematic diagrams of the various experimental setups. The experimental protocols were explained in lengthy detail, and thorough data and statistical analysis were presented in the results. The combined results from the several Chinese experiments showed that:

�� different research groups designed different experimental protocols, used different gifted psychics, used different sealed containers, and used different test specimens (live insects, bulk inanimate objects, and even radio micro-transmitters were used to track the location of the specimens) that were to be teleported;

�� the time required for the teleportation of test specimens through various barriers was anywhere from a fraction of a second to several minutes, and this was not dependent on the test specimen that was used, the sealed container that was used (or its barrier thickness), which experimental protocol was used, or which psychic was being used

�� the high-speed photography/videotaping recorded in one series of experiments that test specimens would physically “meld” or blend with the walls of sealed containers; and recorded in a different series of experiments that test specimens would simply disappear from inside the container only to reappear at another location (after seconds to several minutes of time transpired), such that the test specimen did not actually undergo total material disintegration/reintegration during teleportation – this data is important, because without the aid of electronic monitoring instruments, the average person’s sensory organs and usual methods of detection are temporarily unable to perceive the test specimen’s (ambiguous) existence during the teleportation process;

�� the radio micro-transmitter used as a test specimen in one series of experiments (Shuhuang et al.,1981) transmitted a radio signal to several stationary electronic instruments/receivers, so that the specimen could be tracked and monitored (via signal amplitude and frequency measurements)during the teleportation process; the experimenters discovered that there was large fluctuations in the intensity (in both amplitude and frequency) of the monitored signal to the effect that it would either completely disappear or become extremely weak (to the extent that the monitoring instruments could scarcely detect it) – it was discovered that there was a definite correlation between the change in strength (i.e., radical frequency shifts were observed) of the monitored radio signal and the teleportation of the test specimen, such that the weak or absent signal indicated that the specimen was “nonexistent” (or in an altered physical state) during teleportation (note: the monitored signal amplitude and frequency of the micro-transmitter specimen were stable before and after teleportation);

�� before and after “passing through the container wall/barrier”, the test specimen and the container’s wall/barrier are both complete solid objects;

�� the gifted psychics were never allowed to see (they were blindfolded in many experiments) or touch each of the test specimens or the sealed containers before and after experiments were conducted, and only the experimenters touched the specimens and containers (using both blind and double-blind protocols);

�� the experimental results were all repeatable

�� the conditions for fraud and sleight of hand were totally eliminated, and multiple independent outside witnesses (technical and military-intelligence experts) were present at all times to ensure total fidelity of the experiments"

I am posting the information from Edwards AFB for my self as I intend to test the validity of the document's existence in the future:

Air Force Flight Test Center
Civilian Personnel - 95MSS/DPCS
1-866-EDWJOBS
FAX: (661) 277-4639
E-mail comments: edwards-elite-jobs@edwards.af.mil
Last updated: July 29, 2004 Public Affairs
95 ABW/PA
15 E. Yeager Blvd.
Edwards AFB, CA 93524 Public Affairs: (661) 277-3510
FAX: (661) 277-2732
DSN: 527-3510
Base Operator: (661) 277-1110

If they agree the document is what it is then I'll consider its content.

You do that CC and get back to us!

I just left a voicemail for the Community Affairs folks off of an electronic menu delivered to me via the Public Affairs # (661) 277-3510. I am not sure if they are the right people to talk to and I suspect they can re-direct my inquiry to the appropriate folks in any case.

My call was returned by Dennis Shoffner and he directed me to the right contacts / phone numbers whom could help me:

AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY
Ranney Adams - 661-275-5465
Alternative - 937-656-(9876 or 9010 or 9104 or 0826)

I was informed that the bulk of these folks tend to take vacations at the end of the year and if I can't reach anyone then there should be much better availability in January.

I'll reach out to the numbers Dennis gave me at my earliest opportunity.

I encourage your intent to validate this document. The report has been out for awhile and there was quite a bit of criticism from the american public on the cost.

I intend to and I am actually surprised that the criticism was on the cost rather than the content.

Bob Parks, author of Voodoo Science, had this to say:

1. WARPED SCIENCE: BEAM ME UP SCOTTY, THEY'RE CRAZY DOWN HERE.
Making the rounds in Washington this week is a 75-page Air Force Research Laboratory report, Teleportation Physics Study (my spell checker balks on "teleportation," and well it should). This is not the IBM entangled photon stuff; this is transporting people across space. The subway does that, but it's not included in the report. Instead it describes "conveyance of persons by psychic means," and "transport through extra space dimensions or parallel universes." The contractor for the study was Warp Drive Metrics in Las Vegas, and the author was Eric W. Davis, PhD, FBIS. We couldn't find Dr. Davis in American Men and Women of Science, so we googled him and Warp Drive Metrics. Warp Drive Metrics has no website. We did find an article by Dr. Davis, Wormhole Induction Propulsion, prepared for the 1997 NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Workshop, which NASA had refused to allow me to attend (WN 15 Aug 97 (http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN97/wn081597.html#1)). His affiliation then was the National Institute for Discovery Science, Las Vegas. The NIDS website displays an Oct 15, 04 notice from its president that the Institute is on an "inactive status." Desperate for information, we contacted the Project Manager of the study, Dr. Franklin Mead, Senior Scientist of the Advanced Concepts Office. He's not listed in American Men and Women of Science either, but he has a 1996 Patent (5,590,031) for a system to convert zero point energy to electrical energy. Apparently it's not available yet. He could not give me the exact cost of the teleportation report, but said the subcontractor, ERC Inc., would know. We called ERC, but teleportation is just one small part of a huge contract. Two weeks ago we learned of the Air Force positron bomb (WN 15 Oct 04 (http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN04/wn101504.html#1)). How many fantasy weapons are taxpayers buying?

http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN04/wn102904.html

The July-August 2005 Skeptical Inquirer ran this article in its News column: Randi's Pigasus Awards go to prayer study, psychic travel, Ramtha 'bleep' film.

Category 2, to the funding organization that supported the most useless study of a supernatural, paranormal, or occult claim: We honor the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory, which paid $25,000 to Eric W. Davis (Ph.D., FBIS) and a Las Vegas company called Warp Drive Metrics to study the "conveyance of persons by psychic means" and "transport through extra space dimensions or parallel universes." For their/our money, the U.S.A.E received a seventy-eight-page report, "Teleportation Physics Study," a mass of mathematical calculations and diagrams with much dissertation on "wormholes" and "parallel universes." An annual expenditure of some $7 million on this project was recommended by the report, since Warp Drive Metrics concluded that: "We are still very far away from being able to entangle and teleport human beings and bulk inanimate objects." Really? Who knew

It would appear that the question isn't whether the study was really conducted, it is who misappropriated the money for the nonsense?

From the report itself, “There are a lot of important little details that were left out of the teleportation process because we simply do not know what they are. This technology does not yet exist.”

No shit.

What nonsense? We are trying to uncover a new part of our world/universe. I think it is great that we are trying these new things.

The article in question:

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/davis/wormhole_induction.html

Rapid interplanetary and interstellar space flight by means of spacetime wormholes is possible, in principle, whereby the traditional rocket propulsion approach can be abandoned in favor of a new paradigm involving the use of spacetime manipulation. In this scheme, the light speed barrier becomes irrelevant and spacecraft no longer need to carry large mass fractions of traditional chemical or nuclear propellants and related infrastructure over distances larger than several astronomical units (AU). Travel time over very large distances will be reduced by orders of magnitude.

When these properties are employed together with the GTR field equations, it becomes necessary to introduce an exotic material in the wormhole's throat which generates its spacetime curvature.

It is my intent to introduce a new space propulsion concept which employs the creation of traversable wormholes by virtue of ultrahigh magnetic fields in conjunction with exotic matter-energy fields.

It is speculated that future WHIP spacecraft could deploy ultrahigh magnetic fields along with exotic matter- energy fields (e.g. radial electric or magnetic fields, Casimir energy field, etc.) in space to create a wormhole...

Although ultrahigh magnetic/electric and exotic field generation schemes are speculative, further discussion is beyond the scope of this paper and will be left for future work.

A candidate for breakthrough propulsion physics has been identified in the form of a traversable wormhole created by virtue of ultrahigh magnetic or electric fields with an additional exotic energy component.

MY BS indicator went completely off the scale.

It is exactly these type of pseudoscientific scams I detest the most. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

Look! You too can own a copy for just $8.95!

Teleportation Physics Study (http://www.stormingmedia.us/54/5455/A545524.html)

And don't forget this gem for a mere $27.95!

Advanced Propulsion Study (http://www.stormingmedia.us/56/5646/A564624.html)

Guys, you're ruining my mojo here. I want to get the folks at the AFRL to comment on this.

The mis-named National Discovery Institute for Science is but a propaganda mill for pseudoscience. Probably everything they produce is cleaverly disguised nonsense. That someone in government was willing to allocate funds for a study they were associated with implies bureaucratic incompetence and deception. The NDIS hasn't demonstrated with any consistent ability (if at all) to actually "uncover" anything useful about our "world/universe"

Guys, you're ruining my mojo here. I want to get the folks at the AFRL to comment on this.

In all truth, I'm looking forward to seeing what the comment will be.

Anyways a scientific study was done that shows psychic abilities proved through scientific experiments. The experimental results were all repeatable.

Really? And you have a citation to the peer-reviewed journal that published this study?

No such study has yet been established.

Anyways a scientific study was done that shows psychic abilities proved through scientific experiments. The experimental results were all repeatable.

Yes, that was said, but by whom? The "brilliant" Eric W. Davis who is associated with a defunct "research" institute?

Pardon me as I go away laughing...

No by the Chinese

No by the Chinese

Really? Only according to that one ridiculous report. Have you noticed that China hasn't published such a report? That should tell you something.

Anyways a scientific study was done that shows psychic abilities proved through scientific experiments. The experimental results were all repeatable.

Er, so why aren't we all using our psychic abilities daily, if the experiments are 'repeatable'.

'repeatable' science brought us various things we use daily, like our computers, cellphones, and microwave ovens.

Where's the benefits of this 'psychic' research? Hmmm?

Er, so why aren't we all using our psychic abilities daily, if the experiments are 'repeatable'.

'repeatable' science brought us various things we use daily, like our computers, cellphones, and microwave ovens.

Where's the benefits of this 'psychic' research? Hmmm?


That is a very good question, I think that psychic ability needs to be developed. I don't know much about the so called "defunct" research they are doing at the U.S. Air Force but I think that it (along with the vast amount of paranormal accounts out there) is enough to warrent looking into deeper.

I think the majority of society is not ready for such things, people are afraid of what they do not understand. Also, I believe our society is not well designed to develop such abilities. We are mainly interested only in material growth (outwards) not personal growth (inwards). Our working schedual does not allow time for inward refection (meditation) let alone time to redifine our belief structure.

Statistical tests on islands where bicycles were not yet invented have shown, empirically, that this pseudoscientific skill of 'bicycle riding' (which any reasonable person would reject as violating the laws of physics) does not exist.

Of course, the difference is that most people can be taught to ride a bicycle in a few days ;)

And, of course, there are eight million bicycles in Beijing.

I'm sorry,I'm not seeing your point.

Of course you aren't

Could you please explain?

It is a misquotation from the recent Katie Melua hit "Nine Million Bicycles in Beijing". Since the research that sparked this thread originated in China, and Zephyr had used an analogy of bicylce riding to, apparently, defend the possibility of psychic phenomena, it seemed a neat linkage.

Although having to exlain the quote somewhat ruins the effect, doesn't it?

As usual my communication is convoluted - my gripe at the time of writing was people who say that psychic abilities would violate the laws of physics, stating conservation of energy and momentum - which is silly. If people are going to cite physical laws they should at least go for those that matter.

Haha sorry, I am unfamiliar with Katie Melua. Thank you very much for the explanation, I appreciate your patients of my ignorance.

Zephyr,
Speaking of physical laws, would you believe that the domain of such paranormal powers would lie in the domain of quantum physics?

Egads, I wouldn't know. I've only done introductory quantum and the wackiest thing we covered was quantum tunneling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling), which is basically where a subatomic particle can go through a solid barrier. The thing is, the probability of this happening depends on the object's size and is just about immaterial for anything bigger than these subatomic particles so it's not like that would explain or even support something like teleportation.

Quantum definitely allows for some odd things that classical physics doesn't, for example some theories might not only allow but require non-locality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_at_a_distance_%28physics%29#Quantum_mechani cs) but I don't know enough to say how far that extends. Mainly, the theories are still being refined.

glad you've brought this up....it seriously amazes me that in this post classical science AND even-already POST quantum age (see Jack Sarfatti that we have the Skeptics being so old fashioned and positivist --stuck in old ways, which i wouod call including distrust in Imagination!....for it's wit imaginatin one can exploe about quantum reality....hat its insights might say for matter/energy AND consciousness......Is it a coincidence that in cognitive science at tis veery time is te problem of the 'mind/body problem' and the 'Hard Problem (David Chalmers)....ie the xploration of consciouness. can you not see patterns coming togther..?

So while were on the subject of quantum theory I've been pondering. As we look deeper and deeper into things will we ever reach an end or is that the universe is set to infinite...I guess my questions are unanswerable but it just seems to be that whenever I am thinking hard about the universe and existance it either comes down infinite or unity

So while were on the subject of quantum theory I've been pondering. As we look deeper and deeper into things will we ever reach an end or is that the universe is set to infinite...I guess my questions are unanswerable but it just seems to be that whenever I am thinking hard about the universe and existance it either comes down infinite or unity
checkout Chrristian de Quincey http://www.deepspirit.com
he is exploring that Nature is sentient/conscious "all the way down", meaning to the most submicrocopic contituents of matter/energy

Now, this insight has been invented by Quincey, he is exploring--in modern terms etc--te primal animism of our ancestors

So, in other words. YES, modern physicists
DID findout how weird is 'solid' physical reality, BUT NOW is CONSCIOUSNESS beinglooked at

so when you wonder what it is likelookinginto 'matter/energy' are we notnthereforen also looking into consciousness when doing so, because consciousness and matter/energy are always togther......and is BOTH finite and infinite....BOTH/and

sorry, meant to say 'this theory has not been invented by Quincey...'...typos really suck when they say someting yo dont mean!

I am posting the information from Edwards AFB for my self as I intend to test the validity of the document's existence in the future:

Air Force Flight Test Center
Civilian Personnel - 95MSS/DPCS
1-866-EDWJOBS
FAX: (661) 277-4639
E-mail comments: edwards-elite-jobs@edwards.af.mil
Last updated: July 29, 2004 Public Affairs
95 ABW/PA
15 E. Yeager Blvd.
Edwards AFB, CA 93524 Public Affairs: (661) 277-3510
FAX: (661) 277-2732
DSN: 527-3510
Base Operator: (661) 277-1110

If they agree the document is what it is then I'll consider its content.

Hi folks,

I spoke with Ranney Adams this morning and apparently this article has generated alot of contraversey. Here's the scoop:

* The U.S. Air force spent $25,000 for the author of the report to simply do a document research, present the claims that are out there, and provide a final assessment.

* The motivation for the document research and assessment is to have a competitive offensitve and defensive edge. Imagine being able to 'teleport' some troops in and out of places.

* The author of the article assessed that none of the document reserach showed anything that was in reach. He did recommend (inappropriately) further investiation for some millions of dollars; however, that recommendation was not at all pursued by the Air Force or any other U.S. department.

So there we have it. 25k to see whats out there and no interest beyond. Ranney mentioned that the Chinese and Russian governments have spent millions of dollars on research into the more psychic areas for surveylance, but feels electronics are the way to go because the psychic crap doesn't work.

Thanks for sharing that CC. I've often heard the line that (ex-)Communist countries are ahead of the west in this sort of research, so it's quite telling if even they're looking elsewhere.

Sad for my wishful side, but there y'go.

thank fukin CHRIST it dont work. what---you think i want those grim materialistic muthas getting their greedy fat hands on 'psychic crap'? ugg ugg!!

Thanks for sharing that CC. I've often heard the line that (ex-)Communist countries are ahead of the west in this sort of research, so it's quite telling if even they're looking elsewhere.

Sad for my wishful side, but there y'go.

They can research all they want, but so far it looks like the subject matter doesn't really exist. Lots of wasted $$$ IMO.

Surely it's better to investigate than just to assume it doesn't exist? Then again, I wouldn't have thought that investigating would cost that much...

If information flowed freely, then the West could save by using cold-war era Soviet research as a starting point (even if that meant 'don't start'), but I suppose 'free flow of information' and 'cold-war' don't mix :p

That, and an unspoken assumption that our scientists were better than their scientists.