What are your opinions about this global information revolution? What's your take? Pro/Con ... Proish/Conish? Or do you just not care? I feel that authors of this information should be compenstated in some way for their efforts. I think that this technology (Bit torrent, K++) should exist for the impoverished, the people who don't have the resources to attain such information. I don't know I might be wrong what do I know I'm 17, but this is my 2 cents.

This touches upon another issue concerning Africa. I hear about all this aid, in the form of money, food, and such. I know that this has been going on for quite some time now, and I don't see any improvements (Again, this may not be true, I'm not exactly an expert on this). I feel that aid should be in the form of education. Knowledge brings about many things, reform in government, in science, etc. I watched some tv show (I know don't believe half of what you see) "globe trecker" on PBS (Which BTW I LOVE), so I see the host walk into a hut, a hut filled with no books, no chairs just students sitting on the bare ground. Well I saw a globe, but that's about it. Nevertheless, the students appeared to be well fed. Again I feel that all of these information retrieving software should be put to better use. Maybe more donations of textbooks. The $50 laptops will be able to connect to torrents of whatever.

What are your opinions about this global information revolution?

I feel that there are some people that will really find it very useful and benificial. Then there are those who will see it as a playground to play games and have fun with. Others will seek ways to hack into others PC's and steal stuff from them. Then there are those who want to spread viruses and worms and other mal ware to everyone just to screw with the system and piss people off. So you see it depends on who uses it and for what purposes whether it is a useful toll or just a piece of trash.

What are your opinions about this global information revolution? What's your take? Pro/Con ... Proish/Conish? Or do you just not care? I feel that authors of this information should be compenstated in some way for their efforts.It's a question of what kind of community will be created by the Information Revolution.

The difference between the small, tribal communities of the early Neolithic and the cities and nations of the Age of Civilization is the issue of compensation. In small communities everyone is comfortable producing and consuming without keeping track of quantities or obligations, figuring that since they're all homies it doesn't matter. In large communities you have to have an economic system to ensure that everyone both gives and gets their fair share.

Some people believe that the Information Revolution will make the world "smaller." Perhaps this is the sense in which they use the word. Maybe they think that we'll be in such close touch that we'll feel the sense of kinship that makes accounting superfluous. We'll all care about each other and make sure that we treat each other fairly.

Sweet dream.

think by "smaller" it's closer in terms of information transfer and communication ability. Videoconferencing and common file-sharing systems let engineers from all corners of the globe look and discus a single set of 3D virtual blueprints live. We couldn't do this a few decades ago. Because we can, things are more efficient. True, we all still want our fair share of pay, but so what, what's wrong with accounting exactly.

And I could see that cosmic, impoverished students with new educational supplies including cheap computers one day not able to use their computer because they have no idea how to get the gigs upon inhuman gigs of pornographic advertisements, spyware, trojans, and god knows what else off of their hard drives. Imagine the fright or even shame of a child admiting to her teacher that there are naked people and horses on her computer screen doing something to each other (not kidding, i once had a horsefucking popup). While dealing with this has become almost commonplace with those of us who have been exposed for a while, trying to introduce enhanced communication to a completely fresh group only to have them fear what new harms are out there is a frightening thought. I mean, you can't expect teachers or techies in a sub-african school to be in-the-know about how best to defend against such crap! Hope something can be worked up... maybe UN-appointed staff, LOTS of UN-appointed staff, to help run security for all the schools or something...

I think cell phones will drive greater changes in Africa than laptops.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/10/17/africa.goes.cellular.ap/index.html
One day soon, cell phones will have all the capability of an internet browser, and they are portable, and need less power, less infrastructure. According to this cnn story, they are already having a significant effect.

This touches upon another issue concerning Africa. I hear about all this aid, in the form of money, food, and such. I know that this has been going on for quite some time now, and I don't see any improvements (Again, this may not be true, I'm not exactly an expert on this). I feel that aid should be in the form of education. Knowledge brings about many things, reform in government, in science, etc. I watched some tv show (I know don't believe half of what you see) "globe trecker" on PBS (Which BTW I LOVE), so I see the host walk into a hut, a hut filled with no books, no chairs just students sitting on the bare ground. Well I saw a globe, but that's about it. Nevertheless, the students appeared to be well fed. Again I feel that all of these information retrieving software should be put to better use. Maybe more donations of texbooks. The $50 laptops will be able to connect to torrents of whatever.
In Africa, education is needed over aid. We need to educate them about HIV/AIDS, population control, and other diseases that they are subjected to. This should be the primary concen: not donating laptop computers. Africa is on the edge of being effected by the first pandemic of the Avian Fle Virus and they have absolutelt co comprehension in how to deal with it if it should arise: they would result to useless superstituous ritual cures.

What bothers me the most about lower African countries is that they are so prome to disease and death that thety try to have as many children as possible in the hopes that some will surivive. Many African countries still accept polygamousism where a man has 8 or 10 wives, each having many children. This is often determined by how many cows he owns to prove his wealth to obtain this many wives. In the mean time, U.S. humanitarian groups keep pumping money into African to keep all those children alive. Isn't the whole situation ridiculous? Seems to me the cure needs to be a radical change of enforced education at the grass-roots level, not massive humanitarian aid - a lot of which is conned away from good-hearted humanitarian people by embezzling deceivers anyways.

In Africa, education is needed over aid. We need to educate them about HIV/AIDS, population control, and other diseases that they are subjected to. This should be the primary concen: not donating laptop computers. Africa is on the edge of being effected by the first pandemic of the Avian Fle Virus and they have absolutelt co comprehension in how to deal with it if it should arise: they would result to useless superstituous ritual cures.

What bothers me the most about lower African countries is that they are so prome to disease and death that thety try to have as many children as possible in the hopes that some will surivive. Many African countries still accept polygamousism where a man has 8 or 10 wives, each having many children. This is often determined by how many cows he owns to prove his wealth to obtain this many wives. In the mean time, U.S. humanitarian groups keep pumping money into African to keep all those children alive. Isn't the whole situation ridiculous? Seems to me the cure needs to be a radical change of enforced education at the grass-roots level, not massive humanitarian aid - a lot of which is conned away from good-hearted humanitarian people by embezzling deceivers anyways.

Education may not be the only key. While the adage about "give a man a fish and you fed him for one day, teach him how to fish and you've fead him for life" is very true, there's also another approach.

(Caution: tounge-in-cheek statement coming up.) ;)

Build him a fire and he might be warm for one day; SET him on fire and you've kept him warm for the rest of his life.

While the adage about "give a man a fish and you fed him for one day, teach him how to fish and you've fead him for life" is very true, there's also another approach.

(Caution: tounge-in-cheek statement coming up.) ;)

Build him a fire and he might be warm for one day; SET him on fire and you've kept him warm for the rest of his life.
Explain

What are your opinions about this global information revolution? What's your take? Pro/Con ... Proish/Conish? Or do you just not care? I feel that authors of this information should be compenstated in some way for their efforts. I think that this technology (Bit torrent, K++) should exist for the impoverished, the people who don't have the resources to attain such information. I don't know I might be wrong what do I know I'm 17, but this is my 2 cents.

This touches upon another issue concerning Africa. I hear about all this aid, in the form of money, food, and such. I know that this has been going on for quite some time now, and I don't see any improvements (Again, this may not be true, I'm not exactly an expert on this). I feel that aid should be in the form of education. Knowledge brings about many things, reform in government, in science, etc. I watched some tv show (I know don't believe half of what you see) "globe trecker" on PBS (Which BTW I LOVE), so I see the host walk into a hut, a hut filled with no books, no chairs just students sitting on the bare ground. Well I saw a globe, but that's about it. Nevertheless, the students appeared to be well fed. Again I feel that all of these information retrieving software should be put to better use. Maybe more donations of texbooks. The $50 laptops will be able to connect to torrents of whatever.

WE, in the West dont ge properly educated, but rather indoctrinated and 'dumbed down' and yo want to impose this utter bull crap on people you consider in NEED of 'education'??.....no lad, they NEED food and shelter and clean water, and non-exploitation is what they NEED. like all of us do

Businesswiz initial post: "all this aid, in the form of money, food, and such. I know that this has been going on for quite some time now, and I don't see any improvements....I feel that aid should be in the form of education"
WE, in the West dont ge properly educated, but rather indoctrinated and 'dumbed down' and yo want to impose this utter bull crap on people you consider in NEED of 'education'??.....no lad, they NEED food and shelter and clean water, and non-exploitation is what they NEED. like all of us do
Do you think the education - if they even get any education at all! - is better than what we get here? They don't get ANY education! Yeh sure, they need food, shelter, and clean water; but without education there's always going to be exploitation, unsanitary conditions, improper hygienge, lack of birth control, overpopulation, polygamy, immoral values, ethnic conflicts, racial discriminination, wars, genocide, lack of trained physicians to deal with potential pandemics and disease, no engineers to build infrastructures, irrational behavior, corrupt and uneducated leaders and politicians, and a totally backward continent.

Businesswiz initial post: "all this aid, in the form of money, food, and such. I know that this has been going on for quite some time now, and I don't see any improvements....I feel that aid should be in the form of education"

Do you think the education - if they even get any education at all! - is better than what we get here? They don't get ANY education! Yeh sure, they need food, shelter, and clean water; but without education there's always going to be exploitation, unsanitary conditions, improper hygienge, lack of birth control, overpopulation, polygamy, immoral values, ethnic conflicts, racial discriminination, wars, genocide, lack of trained physicians to deal with potential pandemics and disease, no engineers to build infrastructures, irrational behavior, corrupt and uneducated leaders and politicians, and a totally backward continent.

but WE have got that...wit all our supposed education. the west is totally fucked up....totally. education as it is known and preached in the institutions is a complete fukin failure. it breeds callous indifference which is the major cause of what you are already showing in the world............you are fishing ffor quick fix solutions...suh as 'educatin' for extrremely complexproblems. but i say...it doen't work for US. 'we' are destroying Nature with our 'education'...what fukin good is that?

This touches upon another issue concerning Africa. ... ,so I see the host walk into a hut, a hut filled with no books, no chairs just students sitting on the bare ground.

Students in mud huts, sitting on the ground? And you talk of information and computers and such? Do they even have electricity? Phone lines? Clean water supply? Sanitary sewer facilities?

What, exactly, would they do with all that information? If we teach them calculus, what good will it do those kids who live in mud huts? If we teach them about the Theory of Relativity, what good is it to them? If they knew that there was a war going on in Iraq, would it do them any good at all?

One must always be careful of sticking their nose into the cultures of others and "ripping" them out of the Stone Age into the present-day world. And, I suppose, even more to the point, can modern man even relate to cultures still living in the Stone Age? If so, how?

Again, just what "information" are you or anyone suggesting that we give them? Especially in lieu of medical aid and reliable farming techniques which they can actually use.

Baron Max

There's plenty of use for information even if living in a "mud hut".
See this recent BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4364168.stm

There's plenty of use for information even if living in a "mud hut".
See this recent BBC article: ....

That site gave nothing to show a use for information OTHER than farming-type info ....which I already mentioned in my post.

I'd also like to see what happens to this village in the months/years to come. Perhaps all the outside "information" will lead to civil war and conflicts due to arguments and differences of opinions about some of the shit that's happening around the world (most of which has no bearing on that village!).

Baron Max

I think it is for themselves to say what matters and what doesn't.

I think it is for themselves to say what matters and what doesn't.

Agreed. And that can only mean that "we" leave them alone until they ASK for information and on what subject! As it is, "we're" forcing that bullshit onto them and, in all probability, causing them nothing but more damned problems .....as if they need more damned problems!

Many, many anthropologists and cultural scientists(?) strongly advise that "modern man" NOT interfere with the development of "ancient" cultures. In almost, if not all, such contacts, the advances of modern man has done nothing but cause problems ....most of which have been irreparably damaging.

Baron Max

I still believe that the villagers should be exposed to the internet. I believe that the internet will broaden the horizon for these people. I'm not nessesarily hinting at exposing them to western ideals, no! I wouldn't want that. The internet is not owned by the west. About the porn and such. Okay let porn be there. Fine let there be horsefucking. I believe that the overall effect on these people will be good. Progress would be made. I think that people there are desperate to eat, to earn money. I doubt that they will be interested in watching horse fucking. I'm sure they've seen it in their own environments. I believe thats common. I believe that these people should learn about the world beyond them. I think that a computer can be preprogrammed to run certain programs anyway, avoiding the pornsites or w.e..

About the civil problems that might pricipitate.. every country experiences change.. yes people will die.. but it will work for the greater good.

Again, this is me postulating.. I state what I know..

About the electronic lines and such.. there can be wireless computers.. generators.. solar absorbing devices.. its pretty sunny down there..

I believe the benefits will outwiegh the costs.

I believe that this board has some great minds.. I want us to use our minds for the greater good...

I want to learn about your viewpoints I hope you learn from mine as well.. and thanks for the interest in this topic.. shows you are a humanitarian.. I respect that..

...every country experiences change.. yes people will die.. but it will work for the greater good. ......
I want us to use our minds for the greater good...

And just who is to determine "the greater good"? And "greater good" for whom? And when? And how?

Do you really think that YOU are qualified to tell others how they should learn and live?

...yes people will die.. but it will work for the greater good.

People will die? So the person or persons who determine "the greater good" will be deciding the ultimate fate of some people? Who has that "right"? And who gave them that "right"?

I'm not so sure that anyone has the "right" to step into someone else's live and tell them what to do and how to do it. Somehow that just seems wrong, don't it? How would YOU like it if someone came into YOUR life and told YOU what to do and when to do it? ...and that, say, your family must die for "the greater good"?

Baron Max

I wouldn't say bittorrent helps with providing the impoverished with information any more than the regular Internet does. I am 18, and all I use bittorrent for is downloading games and movies.

One thing that I dislike about the information age is that it makes things too quick. You can become an instant expert in almost anything, and I feel that that detracts from the quality of work people have been putting out. Look at old philosophy vs. new philosophy: someone who comes upon a thought 100 years ago would probably cultivate the thought to himself, read, develop his thoughts, and then finally voice it (Nietzsche comes to mind). Nowadays, any dumbass 12 year old can turn atheist and go to an electronic forum to voice premature ideas on a thought he's just developed, feeling that being right is enough justification, and that reasons for being right don't matter. Goes hand in hand with the contemporary ideal that opinions can't be right. It's stupid.

Instant experts lack the stuff of legends.

You are putting words into my mouth, I don't appreciate that. I never said that it would be forced on. I'm sure people can emigrate and such. Even if it is imposed.. it'll help the person, it'll give him/her knowledge. If that person resists so be it. I could care less. I would take this opportunity if I had it. When you look at the circumstances they live under you'll begin to understand. Knowledge is the only viable way out of destitute, thats my belief. Again I never said anything about force. I don't appreciate the temperment in your words either, take it elsewhere, maybe to the WWF Forums.

I agree with you GUKARMA, the internet encompasses bittorrent.

There's plenty of use for information even if living in a "mud hut".
See this recent BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4364168.stm

I'm glad Avatar cited this article, this is a similar example.

"I agree with you GUKARMA, the internet encompasses bittorrent."

"I feel that authors of this information should be compenstated in some way for their efforts. I think that this technology (Bit torrent, K++)"

You cited bittorrent in such a way that it made me think that you believed it to be a leading technology in distributing information.

heh sorry for that connotation.. I will try not to do that next time... If you want a knowledge base go here man.. I hope this makes someone's life better.. http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/index.htm

When you look at the circumstances they live under you'll begin to understand. Knowledge is the only viable way out of destitute, thats my belief.

Don't you suppose that's exactly what the British said/thought when they first encountered black Africans in the deep jungles? Don't you suppose that's exactly what colonial Americans said/thought when they first encountered the natives of America?

How many other cultures of the world have been "destroyed" through man's untimely intervention and/or trying to bring a "backward" culture into the modern world?

The problem, as I see it, is man's basic, innate concept of his own ego ...he's always "right", and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong!

You are putting words into my mouth, I don't appreciate that. ....
I don't appreciate the temperment in your words either, take it elsewhere,...

I can only assume that you posted that with regard to my post?? If so, there was nothing in that post that was intended to "put words into your mouth", nor was there any "temperment" displayed. I simply asked some questions about your post ....which you didn't really answer. Why not?

Baron Max

Good job at covering up your tracks Baron. You're a good editor, you should edit some newspapers. I know that other members of this board who read this thread will testify that you were a bit harsh, you made exclamatory statements. But that's okay, as long it makes you feel better mate.

I don't think that the colonialists came in with the same intention that I'm suggesting. They merely came to E X P A N D ... to colonialize.. to extend their reach their rule over others. Not to educate or help. And the denizens refused to allow them to rule to take more than they gave. And so conflict erupted. We aren't going there to take over. You must understand my suggestment. No where do I say conquest.

And NOWHERE do I tell them how to live. I merely brainstorm, I suggest. You must understand that I care about these people, I'm not trying to organize a massive genocide. One of my major goals is to help those less fortunate, those who just can't succeed given thier current circumstances. So you chastising me like this really disgusts me.

Oh, boy, Businesswiz, you sure have a hard-on for people who question your suggestions, don't you??? I've only been asking you to give some further thoughts to your ideas .....and you've not only NOT thought more about it, but ye're attacking me for asking! What the hell???

One of my major goals is to help those less fortunate, those who just can't succeed given thier current circumstances. So you chastising me like this really disgusts me.

"...who just can't succeed..."??? Those people have been living for thousands of years! What do you mean by "succeeding"? Is that your ideas or western ideas or western culture or what?? Please answer the questions insteand of go on the defensive attack. I'm not chastising you, I'm trying to understand what your suggestions mean and what you intend to do and how you intend to interfere with the natural development of any other group of people. Please answer the questions!

Baron Max