India's "Socialism of the 21 Century" (Chavez bettered ?)*

The focus for discussion in this thread is the question:

Does, "Capitalism" or "21st Century Socialism," offer a better future for our grandchildren?

{India's new} "... Plan for 2007-12 has made a paradigm shift by claiming that growth of GDP should not treated as an end in itself, but only as a means to an end.

The Plan document proposes to make targets for various schemes and programmes particularly in social and rural sectors monitorable, which should primarily reflect their multi-dimensional economic and social objectives and give results in a time bound manner.

For the purpose the plan document, which has been approved on Thursday by the meeting of full Planning Commission chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, has identified 27 monitorable targets at the national level and then disaggregated them to identify 13 at the individual state level.

The 27 targets at the national level has been put under six broad categories, which include income & poverty, education, health, women & children, infrastructure and environment.

The plan also proposes to achieve reduction in unemployment among the educated to less than 5%, a 20% rise in the real wage rate of unskilled workers and reduction in the headcount ratio of consumption poverty by 10 percentage points.

Similarly in education the target has been set to reduce dropout rates in elementary schools from 52.2% in 2003-04 to 20% by 2011-12 and to ensure minimum standards of educational attainment at elementary level by ensuring quality education.

The plan proposes to enhance literacy rate to 85%, to lower gender gap in literacy to 10-percentage point and increase the percentage of each cohort going to higher education from the present 10% to 15%.

In the health sector monitorable targets are made out to cover infant and maternal mortality rates (IMR & MMR), total fertility rate, clean drinking water, malnutrition among children and anemia among women and girls.

In an attempt to give special focus to women and children the plan proposes 33% of the direct and indirect beneficiaries of all government schemes are going to be women and girl children. It also aims to ensure that children enjoy a safe childhood, without any compulsion to work.

Similarly the 13 monitorable targets at state level includes state GDP growth, farm growth, new work opportunities, poverty ratio, elementary schools drop out rates, literacy, gender gap in literacy, IMR, MMR, TFR, malnutrition and anemia among women and ..."

FROM first of two pages at:
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/From-India-to-Bharat-planning-a-paradigm-shift/237535/

*Chavez is confiscating large farms, (where peasants were "serfs" without hope, education or medicine etc), but unlike Brazil's land reform, the state does not divide the land and distribute it. (This has resulted in most new land owners selling in a few years producing re concentration of the land in the hands of a few.) Instead, Chavez builds a small city (local radio, clinic, market, housing for about 500 persons, water/sewer system, etc.) and assigns one or two crops for production (seems to be working much better than USSR's "state farms"). This has obviously polarized the country. Previous wealthy hate him AND the masses love him. Chavez trust the villagers and has armed them with about 100,000 AK-47 guns, imported from Russia, as sometimes former owners have raised private armies, which try to burn down the new villages and reclaim the land.
Chavez, views oil as asset of all - sold to the poor, even in US, at below market price and is generous with the wealth to other states that follow his trend to "Socialism of the 21st Century." Yesterday suggested to Brazil's president that they make "PetroAmazonia" corporation to sell oil to the needy countries below market prices. (Brazil's PetroBras has just announced gigantic new discovery and stock price rose 14% on day DOW fell badly.) Chavez sees himself as the modern Simon Bolivar - uniting South America and stopping US exploitation this time, instead of Spanish exploitation, ending Monroe doctrine and the remaining USA backed Right Wing military dictatorships set up by CIA, etc. (Chile's current president's father was tortured to death by one, which killed or "disapeared" about 50,000 people. - Same thing now happening in Pakistan, but still on a lesser scale, with US supported dictator now ruling there. - More dangerous this time as when the people do regain control, they have nuclear bombs to give to terrorists in revenge. - Look what happen in Iran, after the people threw out the US backed "Shaw of Iran," whom CIA imported from his Paris home to Rule Iran.)

India's new plan seems to have much the same objectives, but is not critically dependant on one popular democratically-elected "strong man." India is the world's largest democracy with real choices in the elections.


Note: Like India, China is evolving towards a form of "21st Century Socialism." Three hundred million Chinese (equal to entire US population) have been lifted from "constant-hunger poverty" to the "lower middle class" since Mau's stupid "cultural revolution" was replaced by CP lead "market socialism."

I.e. Effectively China is "CP lead", India is "voter lead," and Venezuela is "Chavez lead" on the road to "21st Century Socialism." Together with several other countries,* half of humanity is on this road, but where does it lead to in the long run?[SIZE]
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*Including even Brazil to some extent as the gap between poor and wealthy has significantly narrowed under President Lula. - An intelligent, natural leader poorly educated. - A man who got his first pair of shoes at age 12, was born to literate parents, etc. and has not forgotten his origins and their needs.)

PS monitor may want to move this thread to Politics later. It was placed here initially as India's new plan is a significant new world event, IMHO.

 

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Yes, It does, but what happens when the resources run out ? However, It is better that those better off take care of those less fortunate.

 

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Please make clear which your first "It" is referring to. (Capitalism or 21st Century Socialism)

 

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Apologies, 21st Century Socialism,

 

While that is nominally part of the Christian dogma, and may still work in Moslem nations to some extent, it is failing in practice, especially in the urban ghettoes of the west. I.e. that aspect of Christian doctrine does not seem to be compatible with the more materialist Capitalistic POV (Take care of No. 1) that rules in practice. Despite this, Capitalism has made the "pie" so much larger that even those getting relatively small slices, are better off than many getting larger shair of the pie in non-capitalistic countries.

Many years ago at least, perhaps not now, the upper limit of the "poverty level" income in USA was higher than the average income level even in Canada, which is only slightly less capitalistic than USA. - I.e. Canada does have good socalized medicine, cheaper drugs, etc. which at lower total cost* make Candian's more healthy by most any standard you want to chose, I think.
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*Prevention is cheaper than cure. In US poor get no medical help, until very sick, they go to hospital emergency room entrance. - Why hospitals cost so much in USA, and yet need government support in many cases.

 

Yes, the Indian think tank is trying to move away from the Western style of individual focus and concentrate on the community focus of treating the community as a family, where the elders (and primary wage earners) are responsible for ensuring that the less fortunate are given the help they need. As to how successful it will be will depend on the implementation.

 

India. What a paradise.

 

I'm not sure, but I believe that the biggest enemy of compassionate socialism, and the reason why people often end up worse, is due to bullying by countries too rich for their own good (read "America"). World poverty and general unfairness will never end as long as this childish self-preserving-through-neutralising-potential-competitors-ism still persists in a country with so many people, so many allies, so much money, and so many nuclear weapons.

The American way wins not because it is right, but because it strong -- that classic bullying. Any 5 year old kid would recognise that, but unfortunately America is not headed by a 5 year old kid...

 

Sounds like a perfect cauldron for brewing up more corruption and favoritism, which is something India sure as hell don't need.

Where does this "help" come from? And if it's there now, why isn't it being spent on the poor and the unfortunate now? If it's not there now, then where does it come from?

What's to prevent kickbacks?
How are the "elders" going to be held responsible? What's the penalties involved?
Who checks up on the "elders"?
What's to prevent the "elders" from making claims for someone, then splitting the take with the unfortunate one?

With Indian corruption at a world-record high, my guess is that this is a disaster in the making.

Baron Max

 

Are you familiar with India's 5-year plans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Year_Plans_of_India

 

So, ...there was never any problems in the world until America came into being?

Every single problem, in every single nation, in the entire world is America's fault?

Wow, you and Sam should form a "Hate America" group and open your own website.

Baron Max

 

Yeah, a little ....and, Sam, I'm sorry, but it's just more bullshit, idealistic, liberal politics. Sounds good in the speeches, everyone likes it, but it can't work in the real world.

Sam, lots and lots of such idealims "work" in speeches and on paper ....until the ugliness of reality rears it's ugly head.

Baron Max

 

I see you are NOT familiar with the 5 year plans.

 

Sam, if politicians came up with those plans, then .........it's all the same as what I said before.

Baron Max

 

The regular arc of a "Five Year Plan" goes something like: one year of false starts and implementation hassles, two years of great success and progress, one year of odd infelicities and sudden questions, and a year of conflict and hostility followed by arrest and trial of some of the officials involved.

During this last year a new and better Five Year Plan is drawn up, with higher goals - but starting from a lower baseline.

India might be better off with several Five Year Plans, including a This Year Plan to start the project of installing toilets connected to a sewer system in Mumbai.

 

Things would certainly improve if the United States would stop its bullying.

 

Yep, everything that's wrong in India is the fault of the USA. Couldn't possibly be the fault of the Indians. Nope, Indians are perfect, compassionate people, .....they couldn't do any wrong no matter what. America is causing all the problems in India.

Baron Max

 

Not sure belongs here and not worth a new thread, but just heard on TV (CNN or BBC) that Indian has one of the 10 most powerful computers in the world now. Perhaps in 5 years or so, at rate they are progressing in this field, they may lead the field.

 

Who has the other nine.

 

And just how many of India's starving population will those powerful computers feed?

And how many of India's millions of uneducated people will be helped by those big computers?

And how many people of India starved to death for the money it took to build those powerful computers?

Or is it that we just ignore all those starving Indians and focus instead on things that are really important ...like big computers?

Baron Max