Inbreeding

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Cini, Oct 29, 2001.

  1. Cini Registered Member

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    Hi everyone. It's my first time posting a thread becuz I'd really like to here some views on this topic as I haven't seen it presented or discussed before.
    It's the question of inbreeding and how greatly affected the world is by it. We see or hear about inbreeding as it relates to dogs, cattle and even humans . Our world today is so widely diversified and diseased because of man's effort to obtain what would be fulfilling to his needs, but have we ever taken the time to consider the harmful effects of of inbreeding.
    Please comment....
     
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  3. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    Cini ...

    First off, welcome to Sciforums.

    Secondly, yes, there has been considerable study re.human inbreeding. As for the 'harmful' effects, studies seem to show that less than 20% of the time are there harmful effects, and then usually when a genetic predisposition is present in the genetic lineage.

    Suggest you check out 'Inbreeding Human' on 'Google.com'. You'll find quite a bit relating to this subject re.both animals and humans.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=inbreeding human&btnG=Google Search
     
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  5. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    You might want to add "Cheetah population" to your imbreeding search.

    It's known that the Cheetah population is suffering from imbreeding, since the Cheetah isn't truly a worldwide creature it has a genetic chain that links to all the cheetah's on the planet.

    I remember there being a mention that the cheetah population is dieing from this and man has the chance to step in an do something, but it does require genetic engineering and artificial insemination. In doing so, it is possible that with man's help their Genepool can be strengthened and more diverse.

    Imbreeding causes weaknesses in species because continued descendants from imbreeding share closely related genetics, so that if one of that specie catches a disease, so can all the others in that specie, since they have roughly the same antibodies etc.

    That is why our specie is very lucky, where someones family might be immune to chicken pox anothers will not, but that family that isn't immune might be immune to mumps.
    This means out specie is going to be here for some time on a genefront.
     
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  7. Ana Registered Senior Member

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    making light of it all....but nonetheless true....

    stupid people shouldn't breed

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  8. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    Ana ...

    Achtung!

    And the Reich shall rise again!

    Zieg Heil!


    You didn't really mean that, did you?

    Take care.

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  9. scilosopher Registered Senior Member

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    435
    Read some of Heinlein's books ...

    I don't know whether inbreeding is a problem among sub populations, but the gene pool should probably be ok just due to population size.

    It's interesting to note evolutionarily that a certain amount of inbreeding is essentially required to redistribute a new mutation that results in superior fitness particularly in times of high slective pressure.

    However most selection in evolution is through naturally occuring variability in the gene pool. Sex and large gene count has made evolution mainly take place on the level of new combinations of minor variants of sets of genes. This is the real long run problem with inbreeding. In the short run the real problems aren't obvious since most combinations are ok in most situations.

    Only extreme examples are obvious when sample sizes are small as they typically have to be in most analyses especially in humans.

    It is known that more isogenic strains of most organisms show more gross deformities especially under stressful developmental conditions. There are actually molecular mechanisms to allow for this variability. Otherwise most evolutionary theories would suggest that a species would become thoroughly inbred due to selection for the optimum genotype (though once again a highly varied environment would also result in such variability as selection would vary based on the environment each individual was exposed to). Though most population genetics models use the assumption of random mating. Like random acts of kindness ... so they have lots of built in wierd assumptions.

    While there are definitely genetic aspects to intelligence I unfortunately think most stupidity is the result of people not thinking enough about their actions. That's one of the biggest problems with breeding based on design, we still don't know what to design for. Though even if we did there are obvious moral implications to controlling who shags who.
     
  10. esp Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    908
    At the risk of being bundled off by secret services, look at royalty and nobility around the world
     
  11. Cheetahs

    I disagree with you, because I think that if you read the literature, the problem with the cheetah's breeding habits, is that it will not breed with those cheetahs that are living in close proximity. A maharajah of India found that out at the cost of 7,000 cheetahs he tried to breed. I think the correct term would be 'bottleneck', not 'inbreeding'; somewhere in the past, all present day cheetahs are descendants of one female (in other words they almost died out before). I think the cheetah may be the perfect animal for its niche; it has speed, agility and beauty.

    The problem with cheetahs is that they live to close to 'Man the Destroyer of All Things', and they are not evolved to fight off the other successful cats, hyenas & dogs. They used to live from S. Africa to S. India, now only a scattered few in India, Iran & Africa.

    I would give them more stamina, to run at least 2 minutes at top speed, not the mere seconds that they do now.

    Cheetahs do have that problem, luckily only a few diseases get them.

    As evidenced by the 'Black Death' in Europe & Asia, 'Old World' diseases in the 'New World', and supergerms now; those that made it, lived to breed another generation, ad infinitum...

    For more info, you can start your search here: http://members.aol.com/cattrust/consorg.htm

    Also found this: http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/catlady/cheetfacts.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2002
  12. Re: Cheetahs

    The following excerpt is from this site:

    http://www.csew.com/felidtag/pages/Educational/FactSheets/cheetah.htm

    (please note that Sumeria & Babylon where in the same area in southern Iraq, but are different peoples & timelines. And that Akbar has been the name of several rulers throughout history)
    History in Zoos: Cheetahs were kept by humans at least as early as 3000 BC. They were kept as hunting animals by wealthy Sumerians in Babylon (Iran). Later, the Mongol emperor, Akbar, The Great, kept 1,000 cheetahs for hunting in 1300 AD, all of which were acquired from the wild as adults. During the first 4,000 years that cheetahs have been kept by humans, there was only one recorded birth: in the 17th century cheetahs kept by the Moghul Emperor, Akbar, in India, unexpectedly mated and produced young.
    The earliest record of a cheetah exhibited in a zoo is in 1829 at the Zoological Society of London but the animal did not live to reach one year of age. Cheetahs were first exhibited in North America in 1871 at Central Park Zoo, NY. By 1954, 139 cheetahs were exhibited in 47 facilities in Europe and North America but most did not live more than one year and there were no captive births. Between 1955 and 1994, 1,440 cheetahs were imported to zoological institutions worldwide from the wild. In 1956, the first captive birth took place at the Philadelphia Zoo. The pair produced another litter two years later. Since then captive breeding has increased the founder population to 116 animals, the onset of CITES preventing frequent international trade from the wild. Approximately 90% of the captive cheetah population is descendent from populations in Namibia.

    For more info,

    http://members.aol.com/cattrust/consorg.htm

    http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/catlady/cheetfacts.html
     
  13. in vivo Registered Member

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    24
    The most appropriate term that applies to the plight of the cheetah is "bottleneck."
    All of the existing cheetahs today are nearly genetically identical, due it is proposed to a near-extinction event.
     
  14. in vivo Registered Member

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    24
    That "stupid people shouldn't breed" thing---that's good to note too.
     
  15. Ana Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    111
    oh good...

    someone actually thought it was funny...without labeling me a Nazi, thank goodness!

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    Hey, come teach at a public school....then tell me if the apple does not fall far from the tree....LOL!! Don't even get me started....

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  16. Re: oh good...

    a few things:
    1) not everyone can teach (it takes a combination of traits & experiences)
    2) not everyone can learn or wants to
    3) attitude is everything
    (a)check out the study they did when they told teachers they would be teaching "gifted" students,
    (b)and how students did in tests when they were told they would be testing along with Asian students.
    I'll see if I can find a URL link to those studies & post them.

    I'm not sure about the name-calling, but that German quote after your first post, may have implied nazi? Hard to say, since you can't always get the full meaning of what people say, even when you can 'see' their body language & hear their intonation & phrasing. Words is all we got here, so I try to be as clear or as lengthy as I need to be to get my point across.
    As far as kids are concerned, I feel that all kids are 'geniuses' until they are about 7 or 9 years old, they can & will learn anything( they are like sponges & scientists). They have all those brain cells & synapses connecting up until then(unless they are MR or DD); and as long as:
    1) they want to & apply themselves
    2) they get encouragement from parents, peers & teachers
    3) they believe in themselves & their abilities
    4) they explore, learn & read on their own
    5) etc.
    They say Einstein failed math?

    Anyway, if you're a teacher, you may need a break or change to a different school system. Before you burn out. Not every school is 'Boston Public' or 'Dangerous Minds'.

    Anyway, see ya.
     
  17. valich Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,501
    I've not heard of any inbreeding problems in humans. What and where are they? As far as in animals, creating a bottleneck results in inbreeding - really not much difference. Either way you're reducing the amount of the viable population in the species to breed. This leads to a reduction in the heterozygosity, or differences in the genetic variations, in the gene pools, which then leads to an increase amount of genetic defects because of the constant accumulation of the same alleles available. For example, there are only about fifty mountain lions left in Florida and the males are starting to develop with only one testacle. Another example, there are only about 2,000 or so Panda Bears left in China: 80% of the females are impotents and 90% of the males are impotent, so we might expect they will become extinct. The lack of different genetic diversity in the gene pool leads to genetic abnormalitations and sustained mutations that reduplicate and become fixed in the population.
     
  18. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    locked
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2005
  19. valich Registered Senior Member

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    3,501
    I haven't heard that there was an inbreeding problem in Native American tribes but since their are so many individual Indian reservations in Arizona I can see where it would probably develop into such a problem. However, I do know that many of the tribes in Arizona have an obesity problem and become diabetic because we Westerners introduced them to Western food and took away their reliance on maize (corn) as their staple food supply. We introduced them to a host of sugar laden food (candy, cake, pastries, you name it) that they fell in love with, so to speak (I really hope I am not offending any Native Americans out there as I do respect First Nation and other Native Americans). Anyways, with the lack of education on many reservations they wold have no education available about proper nutrition and the consequences of eating lots of junk food or sweets. I mean, even among all Americans, I think the latest figure is something like 30% of us are overweight, but we are much more aware of the harmful consequences than Native Americans would be. So they fell in love with sweets - to put it one way - and now Arizona has this big health problem to deal with with so many diabetic obese Indians.
     
  20. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2005
  21. valich Registered Senior Member

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    3,501
    That would be either Navajo or Hopi. I'll look it up on the map. I've been there a couple times - the four corners - and the four corner point cement plate is encircled by a few dozen - probably now a few scores - of wooden stalls where the Indians try their best to sell little trinkets to the visitors. Such a pity, but whatelse can they do with their situation?
     
  22. woo, resurrected old thread, I never got back to post these then, so here are a few links

    http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/95/950816Arc5120.html
    http://www.ascd.org/authors/ed_lead/el200411_landsman.html
    http://www.just4kids.org/bestpractice/files/national/rockefeller/Rockefeller_Case_Studies.pdf
    “sorry, its Adobe, I can’t copy it, so please click onto link for full article”
     
  23. valich Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,501
    Those of African descent normally breed with others of African descent, while whites or caucasians usually only breed with other whites, and Asians breed with Asians. When whites breed with blacks, the offspring grow up being called bananas or melanoes and they don't know where to fit in. They get stigmatized, stuck in the middle, and have a great deal more social problems to deal with than purebred. They have to be strong, and only the strong survive it.

    On the other hand, if there were no interbreeding between races, then eventually genetic drift would make breeding between races genetically impossible in the long longterm. Probably the only reason that that will not occur is because of the ease of global transportation nowadays, the emphasis we now place on being anti-prejudicial, and the open-mindedness among members in Western society. This would not have been the case just 60 years ago if Hitler had won WWII.
     

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