Wonder no longer.

Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani is the Shi'ite spiritual leader of Iraq.

Q: What is the judgement on sodomy and lesbianism?

A: "Forbidden. Those involved in the act should be punished. In fact, sodomites should be killed in the worst manner possible."

They wouldn't really make them listen to John Tesh, would they?

Geoff

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2006_03_01_healingiraq_archive.html#11426122930017 8066

http://www.sistani.org/html/ara/menu/4/?lang=ara&view=d&code=45&page=1

http://www.logoonline.com/news/story.jhtml?id=1526230&disableFeatureRedirect=true&contentTypeID=1087

He won't stop the practice anymore than the religious freaks here in america the great will.

In Somalia, in '93, as a member of the us army, my unit was garrisoned in an old Russian tank factory with a group of about 500 Pakistani soldiers, all male. Homosexuality was common among the Pakistanis, and accepted. All 500 Pakistanis had cots on the floor of the factory in one big room. At night, you could hear some of them fucking on their cots--so could their officers. Accepted, or ignored. Either way, homosexuality is fine, if you go for that sort of thing. Fucking prudes.

I have total respect for both homosexuals and the Somali people, but...

ewwwwwwwww.

Geoff

So, a man cannot fuck his wife in the ass in Islam? Damn, son, that's one stupid-ass (ha!) religion. :p

Maybe those Pakistani bastards engaged in that vile act. It does not mean all Pakistanis do so. Those soldiers would be put to death if this ever got public in the Pakistani nation. Most Pakistanis are not homosexuals and agree with the quote in the first post. Infact, a majority of Pakistanis are married and have about 7 children average.

Who...cares? No one is saying that the practice is uniform, just that it is common. It's a naturally occurring anomaly.

Maybe those Pakistani bastards engaged in that vile act. It does not mean all Pakistanis do so. Those soldiers would be put to death if this ever got public in the Pakistani nation. Most Pakistanis are not homosexuals and agree with the quote in the first post. Infact, a majority of Pakistanis are married and have about 7 children average.


"Maybe those Pakistani bastards engaged in that vile act."


Typical muslim response to gays, why do you guys hate 600 million gays, and you have the cheek to call me a racist, being gay is natural as being hetrosexual, even some animals are gay, its called mother nature.

I am sick of muslim countries, & muslims ranting non stop about gays, even in the uk the leader of the muslim council hates gays, yet the dumb ass british government made him a Sir, sir dumb ass.

Gays are rife in muslim countries, one of the reason is you cover all the women up, its hard to be turned on by eyelashes.

We all no in jail even hetrosexuals have been kwown to cross over to the other side, when there is no birds to ogle, as there are mostly only eyebrows & eyelashes in muslim countries, no wonder you have so many gays, probably more than the west.



"Pakistanis are married and have about 7 children average"
Thats not hard when you have 3 or 4 wives pregnant at the same time, is the 7 children his yearly thing, thats 30 years of breeding x 7 = 210 children in a lifetime, no wonder there are 1 billion muslims, i reckon in a hundred years, muslims will out number non muslims by 6 to 1.

Get over your hatred of gays diamond, its a evil hatred that is right across the muslim world, even moderate muslims in the uk depise gays, something the united nations ignores, when is this all going to end, are muslim militants going to start bombing gay bars when there finished with america & israel.

I do not hate homosexuals as people, but I am against their act of being homosexual.

I believe that as a Muslim, it is unnatural to engage in sodomy and a vile and disgusting act.

I believe that homosexuality should be banned in the world, and that the world should recognize that this practice is a disgrace and demeaning of humanity.

Childbirth is a good thing and will result in many more Muslims. Maybe then the world will be a more just place.

Even better, maybe countries like America which support homosexuals above Muslims, and the countries that engage in perpetual war against Muslims will become completely homosexual and there will be no more men or women to fight us any more. Indeed, maybe I should promote homosexuality in the west to bring peace to the world.

Another reason why Homosexuality, Abortions, metrosexual, and many more sexual groups will emerge due to the corruption of the institution of marriage in the West.

Also, you are catholic right Vincent? What does the Bible say about gays?

I believe that homosexuality should be banned in the world, and that the world should recognize that this practice is a disgrace and demeaning of humanity.

Many believe Islam is a disgrace and a demeaning of humanity - perhaps it should be banned instead.

Childbirth is pretty disgusting and marriage doesn't make people straight.

I do not hate homosexuals as people, but I am against their act of being homosexual.
Contradictory statement. You're making it sound as though homosexuality is a changeable opinion.

I believe that as a Muslim, it is unnatural to engage in sodomy and a vile and disgusting act.
It is not a case of "square peg, round hole". It's a case of "square peg, square hole".

I believe that homosexuality should be banned in the world, and that the world should recognize that this practice is a disgrace and demeaning of humanity.
Again, homosexuality is not a changeable opinion, gay people are born like that. You can't ban homosexuality no more than you could ban feet.

Childbirth is a good thing and will result in many more Muslims. Maybe then the world will be a more just place.
:rolleyes: Right....

What does the Bible say about gays?
Strangely enough, very little at all. Some things are simply misinterpereted.

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual. This is a perversion of man's true nature.

Creating excuses for them, does not help. This is due to weakness and conditioning of people and those around them, which makes them believe this vile act is acceptable.

Homosexuality is a disgrace of humanity, and this practice should be banned in the world nations.

Allah guide you all. Peace.

The usual hate screed from Diamond. Nothing new.

I believe that homosexuality should be banned in the world, and that the world should recognize that this practice is a disgrace and demeaning of humanity.

Even better, maybe countries like America which support homosexuals above Muslims, and the countries that engage in perpetual war against Muslims will become completely homosexual and there will be no more men or women to fight us any more. Indeed, maybe I should promote homosexuality in the west to bring peace to the world.

No surprise there.

Geoff

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual. This is a perversion of man's true nature.

And yet, you would probably subscribe to the mistaken belief that all people are born muslim. Is this not then a perversion of their true nature? No one can be "born" in any religion.

Creating excuses for them, does not help. This is due to weakness and conditioning of people and those around them, which makes them believe this vile act is acceptable.

Weakness, she claims! How? What is this weakness? Also, explain how homosexuality is morally wrong, without reference to religion. Go on.

Homosexuality is a disgrace of humanity, and this practice should be banned in the world nations.

Strangely enough, there's no homosexual lobby trying to kill us all. It makes one wonder what really ought to be banned.

Geoff

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual. This is a perversion of man's true nature.

we're not born as heterosexual either, we're born without sexuality.

Homosexuality is a disgrace of humanity, and this practice should be banned in the world nations.

who cares what other people do, it's their life, is it not?

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual. This is a perversion of man's true nature.Tell me DiamondHearts what about people naturally born with both a penis and a vagina? What does you all knowing Islam say about them?

What about men XY born with vaginas and look just like women. As a matter of fact if they were not DNA tested no one would know they were XY and they would live there life thinking they were a barren woman. There are many Pakistani women out there with no children that are really men. What does you all knowing Islam say about them?

What about men born with 3 X (female) chromosomes? That’s one more than a woman. XXXY. What does you all knowing Islam say about them?

You know, I’d love it if DiamondHearts found out they were the opposite sex. Haaaa that’d almost convince me there were Gods and they did dole out justice!

Homosexuality is not natural? Stop talking out of your arse ;)

:p
Michael

Childbirth is pretty disgusting and marriage doesn't make people straight.

Hear hear!!! If I ever have kids, I am not allowing my wench to give birth. We are adopting.

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual.
Tell that to homosexual animals that are found in nature all the time.

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual. This is a perversion of man's true nature.

Creating excuses for them, does not help. This is due to weakness and conditioning of people and those around them, which makes them believe this vile act is acceptable.

Homosexuality is a disgrace of humanity, and this practice should be banned in the world nations.

Allah guide you all. Peace.

Replace 'homosexuality' with 'Islam' and you've said it all.

My belief is that homosexuality is not natural, and no one is born homosexual.

That is because the koran tells you this, and like all muslims you are all taking the koran word for word.

Unlike other religons, i am a catholic i dont give a shit if the bible tells me homosexuality is wrong, i have a mind of my own, we are capable of ignoring shit like a eye for a eye, that sought of shit is bollocks.

Diamond if you tried to think for yourself for once, instead of using the koran to map out your entire life & thinking, you might just realise the koran is wrong on gays.

And for once, just once i would like to a muslim on television talk in a positive way about homosexuality, instead of all the hate they spew up about it.

Diamond hearts

I wonder what the worlds population would be now, if everyone had been born hetrosexual, 20 to 60 billion instead of the current 6 billion, imagine the turmoil the world would be going through no oil, shortages of food & water, half the world living in slums.Gays have been a positive thing in this world not a negative one.

As a Muslim i can never accept homosexuality because I believe man was created to be heterosexual.

The natural duty and life of man is dictated in the Quran where Allah (swt) says that man was created for woman, and woman was created for man. Both were created to live with each other in love and peace.

If I believed homosexuality is natural, I would not hold my current views, but the fact is homosexuality is a perversion from man's created way. If people were made to be homosexual then they would be ways allowed to have children homosexually, but this is not so.

There are many negative effects to homosexuality for human beings. The sex practiced by them is demeaning and disgusting and in a dirty area which can cause infections for humans. It is worth noting that gays are more likely to get AIDS and it is an epidemic in their populations.

Islam is not only religion, Islam is the natural way and Allah (swt)'s system for ruling the world. Islam is physics and natural math of the world. The sun, moon, earth, and universe are under the rule of Islam which is the natural law of Allah (swt). Everything surrenders to Allah (swt) in belief as a Muslim and is hence under the dominian of Islam. Those of humans are given freedom by Allah (swt) to accept or reject Islam, but they are still under the natural rule of Allah, hence under submission to Allah (swt). Children before puberty are Muslim, if they die, they go to paradise because the natural way is Islam.

Allah (swt) tests some people more than others and those who are born neither male nor female or both are not to be blamed for their sexuality since it is not of their own doing. We have people who are both male and female or neither and we still respect them as human beings. We feel pity for such a thing to happen to them, it is not of their own doing and we respect them for their patience and strength.

Homosexuality, unlike this, is not natural. It is entirely in the head of the individual.

I'm a devote Muslim who uses both conscience reason and faith to make my opinions of matters. Reason and common sense only prove Islam. And Islam is perfect and eternal for all people to embrace.

Peace.

The natural duty and life of man is dictated in the Quran where Allah (swt) says that man was created for woman, and woman was created for man.

no, we were only created to serve allah!

It is worth noting that gays are more likely to get AIDS and it is an epidemic in their populations.

not girls!

Another reason why Homosexuality, Abortions, metrosexual, and many more sexual groups will emerge due to the corruption of the institution of marriage in the West.

I wasn't aware that metrosexual was a sexual group. I thought it was dressing stylishly. But what do I know, I live under the umbrella of the corrupt Western Hemisphere.

I'm assuming that by "corruption of the institution of marriage in the West" you are referring to legalized same-sex marriages. First, it isn't a wild-fire trend. To say the least it is a small "bush" fire in a few places. But besides that, it isn't going to increase the number of gay people. It doesn't give more benefit to being gay than being heterosexual. In all practicality it only has a legal effect: it allows gay couples tax advantages that are only recognized for married couples.

Don't start rubbing your hands together in jubiliation just yet, we Westerns intend to stay around for a long time! *Max smiles, while he pats his pregnant wife's belly*

Max

As a Muslim i can never accept homosexuality because I believe man was created to be heterosexual.

But what proof is there that humanity was created to be anything, apart from being humanity? If the Quran is your only proof, it seems your proof is lacking. I could hardly claim certitude from any single religious viewpoint without external data.

Homosexuality, unlike this, is not natural. It is entirely in the head of the individual.

And yet, homosexuality is also a genetic state, though at low allelic frequency. Islam, by contrast, is not. It is - literally - "entirely in the head of the individual"; it is a learned state.

I'm a devote Muslim who uses both conscience reason and faith to make my opinions of matters. Reason and common sense only prove Islam. And Islam is perfect and eternal for all people to embrace.

But, as we've illustrated earlier, it isn't. There may be some good facets to islam, but there's no shortage of islamic mistreatment of good people. Nor moreover is the Quran lacking in error, misanthropy and conflicted message.

If islam is perfect, then it appears islam is not islam.

Geoff

homosexuals arent any more prone to hiv than anyone else.
the issue is promiscuity. many many many homosexuals are monogamous.

i myself agree that homosexuality is wrong.....for ME. what someone else does with their dick does not give me a right to judge them.

end.
of.
story.

well yeahhh, 'all in the head' says it all--a 'revealed/learned' religion. a patriarchal religion which believes in a 'God' apart---doesn't matter if you claim 'all is allah' it still--rhe concept still iis to be submissive to, as creature to creator

this is typically patriarchal idea-----part of the sky-god warrior cult gangs who brought so much miseery to Idigenous peoples, who were only in th head, but rathe organism and environment, and acceptedpsychedelic sacraments which were taken and enjoyed as a CELEBRTATION,
of life, death, the cyclic nature of reality. and were accepting of all form of sexulity for celbration of orgasmic ecstasy

bu the misery laden ascetic cults and/or patriarchy write denigrating propagandaabout women, and nonprocreative sex, and homosexuality, and NATURE>>>>>

tis pattern can be seen West AND East etc. continuuing into mechanical science agfe of west which ALSO denigrates Nature, an MEANING

You sound like loads of fun, DiamondHearts. If I lived in a predominately muslim country I'd kill myself.
Hey, maybe that's why there are so many muslims willing to be suicide bombers.

As a Muslim i can never accept homosexuality because I believe man was created to be heterosexual.
Yeah, except man wasn't "created", dummkopf. We evolved over a long period of several million years.

Allah (swt) tests some people more than others and those who are born neither male nor female or both are not to be blamed for their sexuality since it is not of their own doing. We have people who are both male and female or neither and we still respect them as human beings. We feel pity for such a thing to happen to them, it is not of their own doing and we respect them for their patience and strength.

Homosexuality, unlike this, is not natural. It is entirely in the head of the individual.

I'm a devote Muslim who uses both conscience reason and faith to make my opinions of matters. Reason and common sense only prove Islam. And Islam is perfect and eternal for all people to embrace.OK, so you agree that some people’s sexuality is BIOLOGICALLY different than others.
For example people born as
Hermaphrodite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphroditic#Fetal_hermaphroditism_in_humans) (both sex organs) such as Gonadal dysgenesis
Or with
testicular feminization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome) - people born a male (XY) but physically look female. Prior to DNA testing, these people would have easily passed their test of GOD, they would have lived as (and thought they were) a female.

Actually that’s interesting isn’t it? Because, people have been born with testicular feminization for millennia but they didn’t know it – however God would have known it. So why would God do that? It suggests that they were 1) NOT sinning by having same sex intercourse (man with man) or 2) that God is a weirdo with some odd fetish or 3) humans are a product of evolution and there is no God.

Anyway, what if we can SCIENTFICALLY demonstrate in that for Gays that look male physically that their sexuality is BIOLOGICALLY different than others?

Then what?

Is is OK as was the above examples (hermaphroditic/testicular feminization)? Well? Are you going to be scientifically consistent or pick and choose?

Michael

Hello............?

Homosexuality is caused by a simple chemical imbalance, occurring before birth. It is simply a random biological anomaly. Postbirth environmental factors can affect the situation, but it is mostly determined by a hormonal ratio in the brain of estrogen to testosterone that is higher than the majority of our species. This anomaly has been shown, time and time again, to occur in other species, thus showing that it is a natural phenomenon.

Homosexuality is caused by a simple chemical imbalance, occurring before birth. It is simply a random biological anomaly. Postbirth environmental factors can affect the situation, but it is mostly determined by a hormonal ratio in the brain of estrogen to testosterone that is higher than the majority of our species. This anomaly has been shown, time and time again, to occur in other species, thus showing that it is a natural phenomenon.
it is NOT an 'imbalance' at all. to say 'imbalance' is pesudo-shrink speak that proposes there is an 'ideal' balance.
It was tat idea tat had gays hounded by the psychiatric establishment when homosexuality was classed a 'mental illness'!

As a Muslim i can never accept homosexuality because I believe man was created to be heterosexual.

me)))i have come here, to this thread, after bringingup at another one how last night I had watched a documentary about Gay Muslims, and how sad it was to see the participants of te programme have to HIDE. all we saw were feet, backs, hands, blurred images, legs. onl TWO--very happy looking-Muslims, who were livingin London,
allowed their identities to be seen.
I felt So ad for these oters who were really fearful of being seen, and being allowed to be themselves.

The natural duty and life of man is dictated in the Quran where Allah (swt) says that man was created for woman, and woman was created for man. Both were created to live with each other in love and peace.

me)))and tis is your belief system. SEE IT! a belief that dictates. we know of dictators dont we?it is fascism right. But your belief--patriarchal beliefs--create a big dictator in the SKY. and much much evil comes from this AWFUL idea!!

If I believed homosexuality is natural, I would not hold my current views, but the fact is homosexuality is a perversion from man's created way. If people were made to be homosexual then they would be ways allowed to have children homosexually, but this is not so.

me))))silly logic. Many heterosexual couples choose not to procreate. Some cannot conceive. What does tat make them?...is your dictator-god frowning on tem?....NO. the whole emphasis on PROCREATION is indotrinated in patriarchal religion. The very meaningof 'sin' in Hebrew means 'missing the mark'--ie., shedding semen on the ground. because the patriarchah are semen-centric, the belioeve any waste is against 'God'. can you not see the absurdity of all this nonesense??
Prepatriarchl religion understood ECSTASY as being as, if not more so, important than procreation.

There are many negative effects to homosexuality for human beings. The sex practiced by them is demeaning and disgusting and in a dirty area which can cause infections for humans. It is worth noting that gays are more likely to get AIDS and it is an epidemic in their populations.

me)))Again, homophobic propaganda. Try and understand the sexual TOGETHERNESS as being more important. it could be argues the dick, cunt are also used for urnatingout of, yet they are still sexual organs. The anus is a very sensitive place, and also seat--pardon thepun, ahaha--of 'kundalini' in tantric sexuality. Many gay men ARE clean, as many heteros are. There is nothing at all wrong with anal sex. Oly wat you have been made to believe from your homophobic indoctrination.
Regarding the 'AIDS' propaganda you spout. Well i've said it, it is evil propaganda, andnot just from patriarchal religionists eithe, but also a major major EVIL scam from corrupt medical science. See, for example:
HOW I BECAME A DIRTY LOW-DOWN AIDS DISSIDENT! www.iol.ie/~gittons/aids/articles/howibecame.htm

Islam is not only religion, Islam is the natural way and Allah (swt)'s system for ruling the world. Islam is physics and natural math of the world. The sun, moon, earth, and universe are under the rule of Islam which is the natural law of Allah (swt). Everything surrenders to Allah (swt) in belief as a Muslim and is hence under the dominian of Islam. Those of humans are given freedom by Allah (swt) to accept or reject Islam, but they are still under the natural rule of Allah, hence under submission to Allah (swt). Children before puberty are Muslim, if they die, they go to paradise because the natural way is Islam.

me))))))make NO mistake, Diaond Hearts. Iam not under rule of your dictator-god. 'He' is a viscious horrendous creation creation by divisive, ugly-minded male mindset!

Allah (swt) tests some people more than others and those who are born neither male nor female or both are not to be blamed for their sexuality since it is not of their own doing. We have people who are both male and female or neither and we still respect them as human beings. We feel pity for such a thing to happen to them, it is not of their own doing and we respect them for their patience and strength.

me)))'they' do not WANT your 'pity'. they DEMAND you give up your superiority, and cruelty.

Homosexuality, unlike this, is not natural. It is entirely in the head of the individual.

me))))))NO, wht YOU believe is 'entirely in the head'. your indoctrination has dulled any deep feeling. I dont say this wit bitterness, i am being deadly serious to you!

I'm a devote Muslim who uses both conscience reason and faith to make my opinions of matters. Reason and common sense only prove Islam. And Islam is perfect and eternal for all people to embrace.

me)))'reason' and 'common sense' can be THEmost vile cruel things withOUT deep natrual feeling

Peace.

hmmmmmm'peace'?? for WHO?......seems a contradiction after hearing your views.

As a Muslim i can never accept homosexuality because I believe man was created to be heterosexual.

The natural duty and life of man is dictated in the Quran where Allah (swt) says that man was created for woman, and woman was created for man. Both were created to live with each other in love and peace.

Allah (swt) tests some people more than others and those who are born neither male nor female or both are not to be blamed for their sexuality since it is not of their own doing. We have people who are both male and female or neither and we still respect them as human beings. We feel pity for such a thing to happen to them, it is not of their own doing and we respect them for their patience and strength.

Homosexuality, unlike this, is not natural. It is entirely in the head of the individual.

I'm a devote Muslim who uses both conscience reason and faith to make my opinions of matters. Reason and common sense only prove Islam. And Islam is perfect and eternal for all people to embrace.

"A Moslem who is the active partner in sexual relations with other men is not considered a “homosexual” (the word has no pre-modern Arabic equivalent); quite the contrary, his sexual domination of another man may even confer a status of hyper-masculinity. He may use other men as substitutes for women, and at the same time have great contempt for them. This depraved view of sex, common in mainstream Moslem societies, is commonly found in the West only in prisons. In all cases it is the presence of love, affection, or equality among sexual partners that is intolerable. Equality in sexual relations is unimaginable in Islam, whether heterosexual or homosexual. Sex in Islamic societies has never been about mutuality between partners, but about the adult male’s achievement of pleasure through domination.

It is difficult to establish precisely the number of homosexuals that have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution in 1979, since not all sentences are widely publicized, but estimates range from several hundred to 4,000 (3). According to Amnesty International, at least three homosexual men and two lesbians were publicly beheaded in January 1990. The Islamic Penal Law Against Homosexuals, approved in July 1991 and ratified in November of that year, is simple. Article 110: “Punishment for sodomy is killing; the Sharia judge decides on how to carry out the killing.” Article 129: “Punishment for lesbianism is one hundred (100) lashes for each party.” Article 131: “If the act of lesbianism is repeated three times and punishment is enforced each time, the death sentence will be issued the fourth time.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=5704

Islam's law against Homosexuality started with the Prophet Muhammad (s) declaring this act illegal and forbidding the anal sex even among male and female.

Homosexuality is against the nature of man and should be condemned because it deviates man from his goal of life which is to worship Allah swt and live with a family (wife and children) in respect to the rules of Allah swt the most high.

Yes it is true that Islam forbids the practice and even thoughts of Homosexuality and punishes those who engage in this vile act and eradicate this from society. Islamic people are also completely against homosexuality and believe completely that laws should be made to ban this act in their nations. This is the popular will of the people of Islamic countries.

Islam only recognizes the institution of marriage and sexual activity within this marriage only between a male and a female.

It is also a fact that AIDS is more common among Homosexuals than heterosexuals, and often anal sex results in bleeding and transmitting viruses to individuals. AIDS is also common among prostitutes and those who engage in sex with many partners, which is also completely against the teachings of Islam. This shows why AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases are so rare in Islamic countries.

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/health/aids/images/AIDS_Map_Adults1.gif

(Q), any homosexuality in Islam (especially those among Muslims) is illegal in Islamic law. There is no such thing as hyper-masculinity or status homosexuality in Islam. Islam is against all forms of homosexuality.

Peace.

Regrets, but the evidence tends to disagree with your final statement. Perhaps you should spend some time in an islamic country.

However, I'm thankful at least that you don't deny islam punishes gay people. Death. Wow. That's enlightened.

Geoff

You mean other than the fact that I am originally from a Muslim country and have visited many Muslim countries.

Maybe you need to spend some time in the Muslim world.

Nah, you'd probably just try to kill me. Nice try though.

Geoff

(Q), any homosexuality in Islam (especially those among Muslims) is illegal in Islamic law. There is no such thing as hyper-masculinity or status homosexuality in Islam. Islam is against all forms of homosexuality.

So, you completely and unequivocally believe in a god yet deny the reality of facts?

Actually, that's not surprising any more.

Will you be visiting Earth any time soon?

My belief is... due to weakness and conditioning... which makes [it]... acceptable.

Allah guide you all. Peace.

This is really the crux of that whole nonsensical statement that was issued.

'Diamondheart..' yeah--good nick for you. thereis no subsance as HARD as a diamond. this is goon metaphor for YOUR hard, unfeeling, unyielding and dead heart

discussing wit someonelike you is an impossibility. you completely ignored my reply regarding your insidious homophobia so any further effort s would be like floggin a dead horse

you are like some shouting , spluttering zombie. all wide-eyed nd gone. and totally oblivious to anything which isn't indoctrinated into you

your Mohhamid's zombie. a prsona who cannot and WILL not feel nor think for themself

some silly fictitious male comes on the scene and says 'abc' and here you is preaching 'abc'---regardless how disgustingly oppressive it is. not only for pople who tis filth demonizes, but also you dont even know how oppressed YOURself is.

you spout about 'paradise' in an 'afterlife' and yet continue to make REAL life an absolute HELL , and are too dense, stupid, ignorant, dull , and dead to even KNOW you are party to this, by your blind following of such absurd, and evil, propaganda.

What Sistani thinks of non-muslims

84. The following ten things are essentially najis:

1.Urine
2.Faeces
3.Semen
4.Dead body
5.Blood
6.Dog
7.Pig
8.Kafir
9.Alcoholic liquors
10.The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat. (http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/main/index.php?page=3&lang=eng&part=3)

Najis means dirty.

We are in the same catagory as piss, and shit :cool:

But also booze!

And who doesn't like booze?

...oh, yeah.

Geoff

Relating to Kaffirun (Non-Muslim), they are Najis (impure) ONLY in entering Holy Mosque in Mecca, and for their Men marrying Muslim women. These are the only things which is not allowed with Non-Muslim.

Muslim man can marry Non-Muslim women, they are pure for them.

Muslims can be friends and family, and freely associate with them, they are pure for them in this regard.

.. etc.

It is deceptive to not use an explanation and just simply present soemthing alluding a thing which does not exist.

Peace.

This doesn't say anything whatsoever regarding mecca.

As regards the people of the Book (i.e. the Jews and the Christians) who do not accept the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah (Peace be upon him and his progeny), they are commonly considered najis, but it is not improbable that they are Pak. However, it is better to avoid them.

Stretching the truth again aren't you diamond.

Relating to Kaffirun (Non-Muslim), they are Najis (impure) ONLY in entering Holy Mosque in Mecca, and for their Men marrying Muslim women. These are the only things which is not allowed with Non-Muslim.

Muslim man can marry Non-Muslim women, they are pure for them.

So, you do think you're better than the rest of us? That's the difference between you and me, I would never state such things. Can you see how your religion makes you a pompous ass?

'Diamondheart..' yeah--good nick for you. thereis no subsance as HARD as a diamond. this is goon metaphor for YOUR hard, unfeeling, unyielding and dead heart
error. dead matter doesn't exist. here you are oppressing males again. hardness is male, soft is female. accela.

Stretching the truth again aren't you diamond.

No, actually it is you who is stretching the truth. Islam allows friendship with Kaffirs and considers them pure (pak) except in the entering Holy City Makkah and for marrying Muslim women. Quran says:

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allâh during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allâh and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allâh knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn (The righteous, God-fearing). (3:113-115)

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allâh and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allâh. They do not sell the Verses of Allâh for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allâh is Swift in account. 3:199

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve .(2:62)

Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh.(3:64)

“And insult not those whom they worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fairseeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.” [Al-an’aam: 108].

In Hadith:

The prophet Mohammed –May prayers be upon Him- says “He who hurt a follower of the scripture [Christian or Jew] is like he hurt me”.

Peace.

Kindly highlight WHERE it says "ONLY in entering Holy Mosque in Mecca" from Sistanis' site. Time you start backing up what you claim

friendship my ass you can actually as a muslim visit the vatican. Now why are catholics more amiable towards muslims than muslims are to catholics?

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/path2/p1mecca-sign-w250.jpg

Maybe they are afraid someone will steal the holy meteorite :p

Kindly highlight WHERE it says "ONLY in entering Holy Mosque in Mecca" from Sistanis' site. Time you start backing up what you claim

I'm not Sistani, however I am Muslim which gives me the knowledge to argue your view. I'm presenting my view which Islamic scholars like the great Maulana of Hind and the scholars during the Islamic renaissance have presented.

I'm Muslim and I'm telling you Muslims do not believe this the way. Why do you continue to uphold such lies and imply meanings which do not exist in the laws of Islam.

Peace.

Kindly highlight WHERE it says "ONLY in entering Holy Mosque in Mecca" from Sistanis' site. Time you start backing up what you claim

friendship my ass you can actually as a muslim visit the vatican. Now why are catholics more amiable towards muslims than muslims are to catholics?

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/path2/p1mecca-sign-w250.jpg

Maybe they are afraid someone will steal the holy meteorite :p

Non-Muslims can live anywhere in the Muslim world, in all nations with security. They are not allowed to visit the Holy City which contians the House of Allah swt under the command of the Prophet Muhammad swt. This is to preserve the sanctity and religious rites of the city which is based almost completely on the Holy Masjid.

Peace.

I'm not Sistani, however I am Muslim which gives me the knowledge to argue your view. I'm presenting my view which Islamic scholars like the great Maulana of Hind and the scholars during the Islamic renaissance have presented.

I presented you with imam Sistani's verdict on this matter He is in fact AN IMAM while you are not. You are simply picking and choosing what you like ignoring and the rest, obfuscation plain and simple.

I'm Muslim and I'm telling you Muslims do not believe this the way. Why do you continue to uphold such lies and imply meanings which do not exist in the laws of Islam.


Yes muslims DO BELIEVE THAT WAY I provided you with Proof you provided me with your personal opinion. You are the liar here Diamond

Non-Muslims can live anywhere in the Muslim world, in all nations with security. They are not allowed to visit the Holy City which contians the House of Allah swt under the command of the Prophet Muhammad swt. This is to preserve the sanctity and religious rites of the city which is based almost completely on the Holy Masjid.

Peace.

So how is it that Catholicism has managed to survive longer than islam without such xenophobic practices? Is it simply better, stronger?

No, actually it is you who is stretching the truth. Islam allows friendship with Kaffirs and considers them pure (pak) except in the entering Holy City Makkah and for marrying Muslim women.

No, it says we're naij - filthy, impure, unclean. Nice. Really nice.

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allâh during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allâh and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allâh knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn (The righteous, God-fearing). (Q3:113-115)

That has nothing whatever to do with the "filthiness" of kufr (unbelievers). It specifies that some subset of them will be allowed salvation, apparently because they worship as muslims do: "they recite the Verses of Allâh during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer".

Same for the second and third quotes: nothing whatever to do with "cleanliness":

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allâh and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allâh. They do not sell the Verses of Allâh for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allâh is Swift in account. 3:199

The fourth one, of course, specifies that this salvation depends on the rejection of shirk; that is, associating partners with "allah", which is to say, in usual islamic parlance, Christianity. So this leniency only applies to Christians who reject the divinity of Christ: in other words, Christians who aren't. :D Hardly lenient - and, again, nothing whatever to do with the concept of naij. I might also ask about the order in which Mohammed created these Sura; any evidence of abrogation, perchance?

Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh.(3:64)

So these passages have nothing whatever to do with the "cleanliness" of kufr. But are you saying that in order to visit Mecca (Makkah), all I need do is remind the security guards of them? :rolleyes: Would you let me visit Mecca without being muslim myself? (And should I believe you, if you say you would?)

Geoff

Non-Muslims can live anywhere in the Muslim world, in all nations with security. They are not allowed to visit the Holy City which contians the House of Allah swt under the command of the Prophet Muhammad swt. This is to preserve the sanctity and religious rites of the city which is based almost completely on the Holy Masjid.

Peace.

So muslims don't believe kufr are naij (filthy) - but don't you dare set foot in Mecca, you filthy kufr.

/sarc

Well at least Diamond's arguments aren't hypocritical or anything.

/sarc off

Geoff

So muslims don't believe kufr are naij (filthy) - but don't you dare set foot in Mecca, you filthy kufr.

/sarc

Well at least Diamond's arguments aren't hypocritical or anything.

/sarc off

Geoff

And she is the only one that doesn't see it ;)

And she is the only one that doesn't see it ;)

Not allowing Muslims to visit the Holy Mosque does not make them similiar to urine, this is a huge exaggeration. It's not me who is being xenophobic, it is you.

Also I am Muslim and I am more at liberty to discuss the views of another Muslim than you who has continued to deride Muslims ever since i joined this forum. One look at your disgraceful avatar, shows exactly your views.

You are an oportunist who uses deception to increase others' hatred of Islam.

Peace.

Not allowing Muslims to visit the Holy Mosque does not make them similiar to urine, this is a huge exaggeration. It's not me who is being xenophobic, it is you.

Now you are just flat out a liar I have shown in black and white what a muslim leader with millions of followers has ruled, your personal opinion means nothing.

Also I am Muslim and I am more at liberty to discuss the views of another Muslim than you who has continued to deride Muslims ever since i joined this forum. One look at your disgraceful avatar, shows exactly your views.

I am being honest and can back up what I claim while you are simply a propagandist who cherry picks what you want while ignoring what you don't.
Contrary to what you believe you being a muslim does not give you more rights or libertys than anyone else. As for my avatar get over it, I have never lead any military campaigns or killed a single soul so I am a better man than he was.

You are an oportunist who uses deception to increase others' hatred of Islam.


Yeah the opportunity I have is addressing the hypocrisy and falsehoods you are peddling.

Piece

Also I am Muslim and I am more at liberty to discuss the views of another Muslim than you who has continued to deride Muslims ever since i joined this forum.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

One look at your disgraceful avatar, shows exactly your views.

Strawman fallacy

You are an oportunist who uses deception to increase others' hatred of Islam.

Ad hominem fallacy.

You are a wealth of fallacies, Diamondhearts. Clearly, a textbook case.

Not allowing Muslims to visit the Holy Mosque does not make them similiar to urine, this is a huge exaggeration. It's not me who is being xenophobic, it is you.

Tell that to the one who compose the list of unclean things.

We did not invent the list, bigot.

Also I am Muslim and I am more at liberty to discuss the views of another Muslim than you who has continued to deride Muslims ever since i joined this forum.

Then you should similarly have nothing whatever to say regarding the conversion of anyone from islam to any other religion. "Verily, I tell you, there will not be peace until your nation allows the spread of non-islam."

Does that sound familiar at all?

Geoff

Tell that to the one who compose the list of unclean things.

We did not invent the list, bigot.



Then you should similarly have nothing whatever to say regarding the conversion of anyone from islam to any other religion. "Verily, I tell you, there will not be peace until your nation allows the spread of non-islam."

Does that sound familiar at all?

Geoff

What kind of upside down world do you live in where I am considered a bigot.

Please present a post where I have ever shown racism and bigotry against others.

Unlike you, I have said I respect other religions many times and have said all men are equal as to their race.

Peace.

What kind of upside down world do you live in where I am considered a bigot.

Please present a post where I have ever shown racism and bigotry against others.

Oh oh, that will be a long post.

What kind of upside down world do you live in where I am considered a bigot.

Please present a post where I have ever shown racism and bigotry against others.

Unlike you, I have said I respect other religions many times and have said all men are equal as to their race.

Peace.

As Q said that will be a long post, why don't you in the meantime show where Geoff is racist. I'll wager you can't :p

What kind of upside down world do you live in where I am considered a bigot.

Dar-al-Harb, apparently. Don't forget to wash your ears out; I wouldn't want to contaminate you by speaking to you.

Please present a post where I have ever shown racism and bigotry against others.

You believe kufr are "filthy", and you defend others that do. Unless you're saying that list is bull?

Unlike you, I have said I respect other religions many times and have said all men are equal as to their race.

Are you perhance calling me a racist? Like to see you try to back that one up.

Geoff

What kind of upside down world do you live in where I am considered a bigot.

Please present a post where I have ever shown racism and bigotry against others.

Unlike you, I have said I respect other religions many times and have said all men are equal as to their race.

Peace.
what about your homophobia? yu run away from facing this fear, don't you?

hah...see what i mean...?

Q: What is the judgement on sodomy and lesbianism?

A: "Forbidden. Those involved in the act should be punished. In fact, sodomites should be killed in the worst manner possible."

What a piece of shit.

It is also a fact that AIDS is more common among Homosexuals than heterosexuals, and often anal sex results in bleeding and transmitting viruses to individuals. AIDS is also common among prostitutes and those who engage in sex with many partners, which is also completely against the teachings of Islam. This shows why AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases are so rare in Islamic countries.

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/health/aids/images/AIDS_Map_Adults1.gif
Explain Japan, Mongolia, South Korea, the Philipines, Finland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzogovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Laos, and Bangladesh. They aren't Islamic countries.

Also explain Sudan, Somalia, and Ethiopia, which are Islamic countries and which have a higher AIDS rate than almost all the countries in the western hemisphere.

126. If a Pak thing touches a najis thing and if either or both of them are so wet that the wetness of one reaches the other, the Pak thing will become najis. Similarly, if the wetness of the thing which has become najis, touches a third thing, that t hird thing will also become najis. It is commonly held by the scholars, that a thing which has become najis transmits its najasat, but indefinite number of transmissions is improbable. In fact, after certain stage it is Pak.
For example, if the right hand of a person becomes najis with urine, and then, while still wet, it touches his left hand, the left hand will also become najis. Now, if the left hand after having dried up, touches a wet cloth, that cloth will also become najis, but, if that cloth touc hes another wet thing, it cannot be said to be najis. In any case, if the wetness is so little, that it does not affect the other thing, then the Pak thing will not become najis, even if it had contacted the Najisul Ayn.

Pak meaning clean, najis meaning dirty. This is like reading something from the middle ages. Oh wait, the Muslims are still stuck in the middle ages. What a primitive people. I'm so glad that President Bush is bringing Jesus to the middle east. It's about time that place got westernized.

Explain Japan, Mongolia, South Korea, the Philipines, Finland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzogovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Laos, and Bangladesh. They aren't Islamic countries.

Actually, Bangladesh is Islamic. They are the more intelligent half of Pakistan.

...

Explain Japan, Mongolia, South Korea, the Philipines, Finland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzogovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Laos, and Bangladesh. They aren't Islamic countries.


Bold countries are Muslim.


Also explain Sudan, Somalia, and Ethiopia, which are Islamic countries and which have a higher AIDS rate than almost all the countries in the western hemisphere.

Ethiopia is Christian. Also Sudan and Somalia are noteable exceptions and the HIV/AIDS in many parts of Africa is not due to homosexuality or prostitution but is common in normal individuals.

I was alluding to the fact that almost all the dark green nations and grey nations are Muslims.

Peace.

Pak meaning clean, najis meaning dirty. This is like reading something from the middle ages. Oh wait, the Muslims are still stuck in the middle ages. What a primitive people. I'm so glad that President Bush is bringing Jesus to the middle east. It's about time that place got westernized.

You probably didn't understand what I wrote, I suggest you re-read my posts presenting the proper understanding of this topic in Islam.

As far as supporting Bush in Christianizing the Middle East, I don't really care because it will never succeed and eventually backfire. For showing such medievel hatred, you must be quite primitive yourself.

Actually, Bangladesh is Islamic. They are the more intelligent half of Pakistan.

What do you get out of raising one Muslim country over another, and why do display such hatred for Pakistan?

For me, I view human intelligence as equal and view that all races and ethnicities are equal in their mental capabilities because they are all human beings.

I don't favor one ethnicty over another, I view this idea of superiority as arrogance and racism.

Peace.