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View Full Version : Immigration and terrorism in Europe?
I have a question about something that doesn't make sense to me. Europe has been taking in millions of immigrants who are Muslim. These people are from a totally different culture than Europeans have. Now Europe has trouble getting these people to fit in and terrorism is happening. Who thought it was such a great idea to import all these immigrants in the first place? Isn't it obvious this trouble would happen sooner or later?
Shortage of workers. Besides most terrorist movements are of European origin.
And the death toll is not that big any way.
I mean, look at 11.09., it were just a few thousand people, and that was in the USA. More die in traffic accidents or from smoking every year.
Arsalan 02-22-08, 09:19 AM Europe never experienced this kind of terrorism before the US led illegal invasion of Iraq, a country which never attacked the US and was never a threat. Islam has been in the west long before 9/11 happened. You have dozens of Muslim who you see in your everyday life but you would be surprised to hear they are Muslim and you use dozens of things in your everyday life which the Muslims brought to the West. Chcuking all of them in with terrorists is unfair.
Shortage of workers. Besides most terrorist movements are of European origin.
And the death toll is not that big any way.
I mean, look at 11.09., it were just a few thousand people, and that was in the USA. More die in traffic accidents or from smoking every year.
When did the citizens of Europe ask for these foreign workers?
Its more a matter of culture clash than people dying at this point. But we have seen some moments of civil disturbance which should cause concern.
Europe never experienced this kind of terrorism before the US led illegal invasion of Iraq, a country which never attacked the US and was never a threat. Islam has been in the west long before 9/11 happened. You have dozens of Muslim who you see in your everyday life but you would be surprised to hear they are Muslim and you use dozens of things in your everyday life which the Muslims brought to the West. Chcuking all of them in with terrorists is unfair.
Europe had terrorism from Muslims before America was invaded by white people. Read your history.
Mr.Spock 02-23-08, 12:32 PM I have a question about something that doesn't make sense to me. Europe has been taking in millions of immigrants who are Muslim. These people are from a totally different culture than Europeans have. Now Europe has trouble getting these people to fit in and terrorism is happening. Who thought it was such a great idea to import all these immigrants in the first place? Isn't it obvious this trouble would happen sooner or later?
Europe will turn Islamic sooner or later.
Norsefire 02-23-08, 12:33 PM Europe will turn Islamic sooner or later.
Only if the extremists are not eradicated.
Mr.Spock 02-23-08, 12:37 PM Only if the extremists are not eradicated.
extremists? you mean non Muslims?
Norsefire 02-23-08, 12:59 PM extremists? you mean non Muslims?
Very cute.....no, I mean extremists of all religions.
vincent28uk 02-23-08, 03:13 PM Europe never experienced this kind of terrorism before the US led illegal invasion of Iraq, a country which never attacked the US and was never a threat. Islam has been in the west long before 9/11 happened. You have dozens of Muslim who you see in your everyday life but you would be surprised to hear they are Muslim and you use dozens of things in your everyday life which the Muslims brought to the West. Chcuking all of them in with terrorists is unfair.
"you would be surprised to hear they are Muslim and you use dozens of things in your everyday life which the Muslims brought to the West."
Yes i would be very, very, suprised if you could name one thing i use in my everyday life that muslims brought to the west?
Muslims are not known to have invented anything, i know of plenty of things your using right now that was invented in the west, everthing from your computer to the lightbulb, & your TV.
I have tried many times on google to find such muslim inventions, i think there is one somewhere but that is debatable by all accounts.
So i see because the US invaded iraq that is the reason why there are so many european terroists now, as i recall they were not in iraq when sept 11 took place, maybe the fanatics are not reading the same script as you?
Why are the muslim fanatic terroists in the phillipines, thailand, india, morroco, china, whats there crimes?
Why are they in holland killing?
Why did they try to kill a danish cartoonist?
Why have they killed hundreds of tourists in egypt in the last 15 years?
Most these things have nothing to do with iraq, yet you guys use iraq & israel to justify terroism in the world today, yet you never mention countries fighting these fanatics year in & year out in there countries.
China has been fighting muslim fanatics for over 30 years, whats china's crimes in iraq?
there had been numerous jetliners blown up pre iraq all by muslim fanatics, one in scotland, libya the culprit.
There have been cruise liners hijacked, with a 70year old wheelchair man thrown overboard like garbage, all pre iraq.
Believe it of not this terroism has been going on for decades, you can throw iraq in the air as much as you want, it means nothing, anyone who has followed world events in the last 20 years knows the amount of terroism by muslim fanatics far outweighs all the other religons put together.
Who are you kidding here?
spidergoat 02-23-08, 03:20 PM I have a question about something that doesn't make sense to me. Europe has been taking in millions of immigrants who are Muslim. These people are from a totally different culture than Europeans have. Now Europe has trouble getting these people to fit in and terrorism is happening. Who thought it was such a great idea to import all these immigrants in the first place? Isn't it obvious this trouble would happen sooner or later?
It's the legacy of colonization. In many cases, these people already speak the language.
Arsalan 02-25-08, 08:24 PM Yes i would be very, very, suprised if you could name one thing i use in my everyday life that muslims brought to the west?
Muslims are not known to have invented anything, i know of plenty of things your using right now that was invented in the west, everthing from your computer to the lightbulb, & your TV.
Im not saying Muslims invented everything. They invented some and some was brought to the West through the Muslims.
Coffee:
Coffee use can be traced at least to as early as the 9th century, when it appeared in the highlands of Ethiopia.[1] According to legend, Ethiopian shepherds were the first to observe the influence of the caffeine in coffee beans when the goats appeared to "dance" and to have an increased level of energy after consuming wild coffee berries.[11] The legend names the shepherd "Kaldi." From Ethiopia, coffee spread to Egypt and Yemen.,[12] It was in Arabia that coffee beans were first roasted and brewed similarly as they are today. By the 15th century, it had reached the rest of the Middle East, Persia, Turkey, and northern Africa.
In 1583, Leonhard Rauwolf, a German physician, gave this description of coffee after returning from a ten year trip to the Near East:[13]
“ A beverage as black as ink, useful against numerous illnesses, particularly those of the stomach. Its consumers take it in the morning, quite frankly, in a porcelain cup that is passed around and from which each one drinks a cupful. It is composed of water and the fruit from a bush called bunnu. ”
From the Muslim world, coffee spread to Italy. The thriving trade between Venice and North Africa, Egypt, and the Middle East brought many goods, including coffee, to the Venetian port. From Venice, it was introduced to the rest of Europe. Coffee became more widely accepted after it was deemed a Christian beverage by Pope Clement VIII in 1600, despite appeals to ban the "Muslim drink".
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#History
Al-Jazari’s stuff:
Mechanisms and methods
While many of al-Jazari's inventions may now appear to be trivial, the most significant aspect of al-Jazari's machines are the mechanisms, components, ideas, methods and design features which they employ.[1]
[edit] Crankshaft and connecting rod mechanism
Al-Jazari invented the crankshaft, though not the hand-operated crank (which appeared in Han China) but he was the first to incorporate it in a machine. It transforms continuous rotary motion into a linear reciprocating motion,[5] and is central to modern machinery such as the steam engine, internal combustion engine (where it converts in the other direction) and automatic controls.[6][7]
The connecting rod was also invented by al-Jazari, and was used in a crank and connecting rod system in a rotating machine he developed in 1206, in two of his water-raising machines: the crank-driven saqiya chain pump and the double-action reciprocating piston suction pump.[5]
[edit] Design and construction methods
Donald Routledge Hill writes:
"We see for the first time in al-Jazari's work several concepts important for both design and construction: the lamination of timber to minimize warping, the static balancing of wheels, the use of wooden templates (a kind of pattern), the use of paper models to establish designs, the calibration of orifices, the grinding of the seats and plugs of valves together with emery powder to obtain a watertight fit, and the casting of metals in closed mold boxes with sand."[1]
[edit] Escapement mechanism in a rotating wheel
Al-Jazari invented a method for controlling the speed of rotation of a wheel using an escapement mechanism.[8]
[edit] Mechanical controls
According to Donald Routledge Hill, al-Jazari described several early mechanical controls, including "a large metal door, a combination lock and a lock with four bolts."[1]
[edit] Segmental gear
A segmental gear is "a piece for receiving or communicating reciprocating motion from or to a cogwheel, consisting of a sector of a circular gear, or ring, having cogs on the periphery, or face."[9] Professor Lynn Townsend White, Jr. wrote:
"Segmental gears first clearly appear in Al-Jazari, in the West they emerge in Giovanni de Dondi‘s astronomical clock finished in 1364, and only with the great Sienese engineer Francesco di Giorgio (1501) did they enter the general vocabulary of European machine design."[10]
[edit] Water-raising machines
Al-Jazari invented five machines for raising water,[11] as well as watermills and water wheels with cams on their axle used to operate automata,[12] in the 12th and 13th centuries, and described them in 1206. It was in these water-raising machines that he introduced his most important ideas and components.
[edit] Saqiya chain pumps
The first known use of a crankshaft in a chain pump was in one of al-Jazari's saqiya machines.[13] The concept of minimizing intermittent working is also first implied in one of al-Jazari's saqiya chain pumps, which was for the purpose of maximising the efficiency of the saqiya chain pump [13] Al-Jazari also constructed a water-raising saqiya chain pump which was run by hydropower rather than manual labour, though the Chinese were also using hydropower for chain pumps prior to him. Saqiya machines like the ones he described have been supplying water in Damascus since the 13th century up until modern times,[14] and were in everyday use throughout the medieval Islamic world.[13]
[edit] Double-action suction pump with valves and reciprocating piston motion
In 1206, Al-Jazari described the first suction pipes, suction pump, double-action pump, valve, and crankshaft-connecting rod mechanism, when he invented a twin-cylinder reciprocating piston pump. This pump is driven by a water wheel, which drives, through a system of gears, an oscillating slot-rod to which the rods of two pistons are attached. The pistons work in horizontally opposed cylinders, each provided with valve-operated suction and delivery pipes. The delivery pipes are joined above the centre of the machine to form a single outlet into the irrigation system. This may be the only one of al-Jazari's inventions which had a direct significance for the development of modern engineering. This pump is remarkable for three reasons:[1]
• The first known use of a true suction pipe in a pump.
• The application of the double-acting principle.
• The conversion of rotary to reciprocating motion, via the crankshaft-connecting rod mechanism.
[edit] Water supply system
Al-Jazari developed the earliest water supply system to be driven by gears and hydropower, which was built in 13th century Damascus to supply water to its mosques and Bimaristan hospitals. The system had water from a lake turn a scoop-wheel and a system of gears which transported jars of water up to a water channel that led to mosques and hospitals in the city.[15]
[edit] Automata
Al-Jazari invented automated moving peacocks driven by hydropower.[16] He also invented the earliest known automatic gates, which were driven by hydropower.[15] He also created automatic doors as part of one of his elaborate water clocks.[1]
Al-Jazari also designed and constructed a number of other automata, including automatic machines, home appliances, and musical automata powered by water.[17] Al-Jazari also invented water wheels with cams on their axle used to operate automata.[12]
[edit] Musical automata
Al-Jazari's musical automata.
Al-Jazari's work described fountains and musical automata, in which the flow of water alternated from one large tank to another at hourly or half-hourly intervals. This operation was achieved through his innovative use of hydraulic switching.[1]
Al-Jazari created a musical automaton, which was a boat with four automatic musicians that floated on a lake to entertain guests at royal drinking parties. Professor Noel Sharkey has argued that it is quite likely that it was an early programmable automata and has produced a possible reconstruction of the mechanism; it has a programmable drum machine with pegs (cams) that bump into little levers that operated the percussion. The drummer could be made to play different rhythms and different drum patterns if the pegs were moved around.[18] According to Charles B. Fowler, the automata were a "robot band" which performed "more than fifty facial and body actions during each musical selection."[19]
[edit] Clocks
Al-Jazari constructed a variety of water clocks and candle clocks. These included a portable water-powered scribe clock, which was a meter high and half a meter wide, reconstructed successfully at the Science Museum (London) in 1976 [12][20]
[edit] Astronomical clocks
Al-Jazari invented monumental water-powered astronomical clocks which displayed moving models of the Sun, Moon, and stars. His largest astronomical clock, which was about 11 feet high, displayed the zodiac and the solar and lunar orbits. Another innovative feature of the clock was a pointer which travelled across the top of a gateway and caused automatic doors to open every hour.[21][1]
[edit] Candle clocks
According to Donald Routledge Hill, al-Jazari described the most sophisticated candle clocks known to date. Hill described one of al-Jazari's candle clocks as follows:[1]
"The candle, whose rate of burning was known, bore against the underside of the cap, and its wick passed through the hole. Wax collected in the indentation and could be removed periodically so that it did not interfere with steady burning. The bottom of the candle rested in a shallow dish that had a ring on its side connected through pulleys to a counterweight. As the candle burned away, the weight pushed it upward at a constant speed. The automata were operated from the dish at the bottom of the candle."
[edit] Elephant clock with automaton
Main article: Elephant clock
The elephant clock described by al-Jazari in 1206 is notable for several innovations. It was the first clock in which an automaton reacted after certain intervals of time (in this case, a humanoid robot striking the cymbal and a mechanical robotic bird chirping) and the first water clock to accurately record the passage of the temporal hours to match the uneven length of days throughout the year.[22]
[edit] Weight-driven water clocks
Al-Jazari invented clocks which were driven by both water and weights. These included geared clocks and a portable water-powered scribe clock, which was a meter high and half a meter wide. The scribe with his pen was synonymous to the hour hand of a modern clock.[12][23] Al-Jazari's famous water-powered scribe clock was reconstructed successfully at the Science Museum (London) in 1976.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Jazari
Chess:
Chess originated in India,[5] where its early form in the 6th century was chaturanga, which translates as "four divisions of the military"-- infantry, cavalry, elephants, and chariots, represented respectively by pawn, knight, bishop, and rook. In Persia around 600 the name became shatranj and the rules were developed further. Shatranj was taken up by the Muslim world after the Islamic conquest of Persia, with the pieces largely retaining their Persian names. In Spanish "shatranj" was rendered as ajedrez and in Greek as zatrikion, but in the rest of Europe it was replaced by versions of the Persian shāh ("king").
Knights Templar playing chess, Libro de los juegos, 1283.
The game reached Western Europe and Russia by at least three routes, the earliest being in the 9th century. By the year 1000 it had spread throughout Europe.[6] Introduced into the Iberian Peninsula by the Moors in the 10th century, it was described in a famous 13th century manuscript covering shatranj, backgammon, and dice named the Libro de los juegos.[7]
Another theory, championed by David H. Li, contends that chess arose from the game xiangqi, or at least a predecessor thereof, existing in China since the 2nd century BC.[8]
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess#Origins_of_the_modern_game_.281450.E2.80.931 850.29
Cleanliness is another important thing. Read up on Al-Zahrawi, called by Geronimo Cardano as ‘one of the 12 giant minds of history’, and what he did. Also read up on Sake Dean Mahomet:
"Dr. Brighton"
In 1814 he moved with his Irish wife, Jane, to Brighton. The couple opened the first shampooing vapour masseur bath in England, on the site now occupied by the Queen's Hotel. He described the treatment in a local paper as "The Indian Medicated Vapour Bath (type of Turkish bath), a cure to many diseases and giving full relief when every thing fails; particularly Rheumatic and paralytic, gout, stiff joints, old sprains, lame less, aches and pains in the joints".
This business was an immediate success and Dean Mahomet became known as "Dr. Brighton". Hospitals referred patients to him and he was appointed as shampooing surgeon to both King George IV and William IV.
At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sake_Dean_Mahomet#.22Dr._Brighton.22 Read up on al-Kindi and his works.
How about the Banu Musa Brothers:
The Banu Musa brothers invented a number of automata (automatic machines) and mechanical devices, and they described a hundred such devices in their Book of Ingenious Devices. Some of these inventions include:
• Valve[3][4]
• Float valve[3]
• Feedback controller[3]
• Automatic flute player[5]
• Programmable machine[5]
• Mechanical trick devices[4]
• Hurricane lamp[4]
• Self-trimming lamp[4] (Ahmad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir)
• Self-feeding lamp[4]
• Gas mask[4]
• Grab[4]
• Clamshell grab[4]
• Fail-safe system[4]
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Musa
Or what about Ibn al-Haytham:
Abū ʿAlī al-Ḥasan ibn al-Ḥasan ibn al-Haytham (965 – 1039), was an Arab[1][2][3] or Persian[4] Muslim polymath[5][6] who made significant contributions to the principles of optics, as well as to anatomy, astronomy, engineering, mathematics, medicine, ophthalmology, philosophy, physics, psychology, Ash'ari theology, visual perception, and to science in general with his introduction of the scientific method. He is sometimes called al-Basri (Arabic: البصري), after his birthplace in the city of Basra in Iraq (Mesopotamia), then ruled by the Buyid dynasty of Persia.[7]
Ibn al-Haytham is regarded as the father of optics for his influential Book of Optics, which correctly explained and proved the modern intromission theory of vision, and for his experiments on optics, including experiments on lenses, mirrors, refraction, reflection, and the dispersion of light into its constituent colours.[8] He studied binocular vision and the moon illusion, speculated on the finite speed, and rectilinear propagation of light,[9] and argued for the corpuscular theory. Due to his formulation of a modern quantitative, empirical and experimental approach to physics and science, he is considered the pioneer of the modern scientific method[10][11] and the originator of experimental science[12] and experimental physics,[13] and some have described him as the "first scientist" for these reasons.[14] He is also considered by some to be the founder of experimental psychology[15] for his experimental approach to the psychology of visual perception and optical illusions,[16] and a pioneer of the philosophical field of phenomenology. His Book of Optics has been ranked alongside Isaac Newton's Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica as one of the most influential books in the history of physics,[17] for initiating a revolution in optics[18] and visual perception.[19]
Among his other achievements, Ibn al-Haytham gave the first clear description[20] and correct analysis[21] of the camera obscura, discovered Fermat's principle of least time and the law of inertia (known as Newton's first law of motion),[22] discovered the concept of momentum (part of Newton's second law of motion),[23] described the attraction between masses and was aware of the magnitude of acceleration due to gravity at a distance,[24] discovered that the heavenly bodies were accountable to the laws of physics, presented a critique and reform of Ptolemaic astronomy, first stated Wilson's theorem in number theory, formulated and solved Alhazen's problem geometrically using early ideas related to calculus and mathematical induction,[25] and in his optical research laid the foundations for the later development of telescopic astronomy,[26] as well as for the microscope and the use of optical aids in Renaissance art.[27]
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haytham
Come back when youve read up on those and youre still not satisfied.
I have tried many times on google to find such muslim inventions, i think there is one somewhere but that is debatable by all accounts.
Which invention was that?
So i see because the US invaded iraq that is the reason why there are so many european terroists now, as i recall they were not in iraq when sept 11 took place, maybe the fanatics are not reading the same script as you?
September 11 took place because US foreign policy had already wrecked a lot of other countries.
Why are the muslim fanatic terroists in the phillipines, thailand, india, morroco, china, whats there crimes?
Are they the only ones?
Why are they in holland killing?
You mean Van Gogh? Wait, what was Volkert van der Vaart again?
Why did they try to kill a danish cartoonist?
Im not psychic. You can answer this for yourself.
Why have they killed hundreds of tourists in egypt in the last 15 years?
Ask them.
Most these things have nothing to do with iraq, yet you guys use iraq & israel to justify terroism in the world today, yet you never mention countries fighting these fanatics year in & year out in there countries.
Were not saying that terrorism only started because of Iraq. If you think we say that then you should read what we said again. What we are saying is that the Iraq invasion fanned the flames then times. Its no surprise that terrorist attacks have risen since the US invaded Iraq and enslaved the people.
China has been fighting muslim fanatics for over 30 years, whats china's crimes in iraq?
I found this:
The rise of the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) made relations between the Muslims and Chinese more difficult. The dynasty prohibited ritual slaughtering of animals, followed by forbidding the construction of new mosques and the pilgrimage to Mecca.[10] The Qing rulers belonged to the Manchu, a minority in China, and employed the tactics of divide and conquer to keep the Muslims, Hans, Tibetans and Mongolians in conflict with each other. These repressive policies resulted in five bloody Hui rebellions, most notably the Panthay Rebellion, which occurred in Yunnan province from 1855 to 1873, and the Dungan revolt, which occurred mostly in Xinjiang, Shensi and Gansu, from 1862 to 1877.
After the fall of the Qing Dynasty, Sun Yat Sen, who established the Republic of China immediately proclaimed that the country belonged equally to the Han, Hui (Muslim), Meng (Mongol), and the Tsang (Tibetan) peoples. In 1911, the provinces of Qinhai, Gansu and Ningxia fell to Muslim warlords of the family known as the Ma clique. Conditions for the Muslims worsened during the Cultural Revolution. The government began to relax its policies towards Muslims in 1978. Today, Islam is experiencing a modest revival and there are now many mosques in China. There has been an upsurge in Islamic expression and many nation-wide Islamic associations have been organized to co-ordinate inter-ethnic activities among Muslims.[11]
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China#Ethnic_Groups Ah yes, the bloodthirsty animals! What exactly are you saying?
there had been numerous jetliners blown up pre iraq all by muslim fanatics, one in scotland, libya the culprit.
You mean these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_aircraft_hijackings
There have been cruise liners hijacked, with a 70year old wheelchair man thrown overboard like garbage, all pre iraq.
When was that? Give me info on it.
Believe it of not this terroism has been going on for decades, you can throw iraq in the air as much as you want, it means nothing, anyone who has followed world events in the last 20 years knows the amount of terroism by muslim fanatics far outweighs all the other religons put together.
As has Western terrorism, economical and physical.
Who are you kidding here?
You are kidding yourself so it cant be you.
Fraggle Rocker 02-25-08, 09:54 PM When did the citizens of Europe ask for these foreign workers?Western Europe has been importing foreign workers for decades. Their fertility rate has dropped below replacement level so they need immigrants to keep their economy from shrinking. The USA is entering the same phase now, it's just that many of our citizens don't understand that or just can't do the math.Europe will turn Islamic sooner or later.I doubt it. They have just finished dumping Christianity, or at least reducing it to a bunch of innocuous celebrations. They've finally managed to overcome their national differences and have started to build a real union. The last thing they're going to do is embrace another of the Abrahamic religions that reinforce tribalism and will take them backwards into the Bronze Age.
I have a question about something that doesn't make sense to me. Europe has been taking in millions of immigrants who are Muslim. These people are from a totally different culture than Europeans have. Now Europe has trouble getting these people to fit in and terrorism is happening. Who thought it was such a great idea to import all these immigrants in the first place? Isn't it obvious this trouble would happen sooner or later?
Europe needs the distraction of a violently aggressive outside invader to unify them; otherwise, they'd be killing one another with gay abandon.
chuuush 02-27-08, 12:13 PM I have a question about something that doesn't make sense to me. Europe has been taking in millions of immigrants who are Muslim. These people are from a totally different culture than Europeans have. Now Europe has trouble getting these people to fit in and terrorism is happening. Who thought it was such a great idea to import all these immigrants in the first place? Isn't it obvious this trouble would happen sooner or later?
Europe just has to accept foreign immigration if it wants to continue its current level of welfare. They have stopped reproduction, marriage rates are falling day by day and divorce rates are on the increase. The family institution in Europe has been shakes by sexism and the labor force is shrinking fast. They do not have another alternative, and they should be thankful to the foreignimmigrants as much as the immigrants should be thankful to them.
15ofthe19 02-27-08, 12:22 PM Europe never experienced this kind of terrorism before the US led illegal invasion of Iraq,
Something about Lockerbie...:bugeye:
Arsalan 02-28-08, 08:41 PM Something about Lockerbie...:bugeye:
Oh, you mean like those bombings by the IRA? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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