View Full Version : If (when?) the brain's data could be loaded


Syzygys
10-19-06, 09:38 PM
What if a few years/decades from now we will invent a way of storing and up/downloading the knowledge and memories of the brain?

So let's say a 6 years old child could be uploaded in 1 min with the knowledge and experiences of a 60 years old neurosurgeon or a rocketscientist?

That would make schooling obsolate for sure, but wouldn't that degrade knowledge itself? Since everybody could learn anything in a matter of seconds,
everybody would be an Einstein.

Also what would kids do with their extra time between 6-16?

AntonK
10-20-06, 01:09 AM
My guess is that we will have the ability to READ the data in the human mind LONG before we can change the data of the human mind. We already have technology that can read the impulses of individual groups of neurons (involving superconducting detectors). Eventually yes, we may be able to read EVERY neuron and EVERY synapse and map the entire mind. However, that gives us NO way to change the neurons. You have to remember, the data in the human brain is stored in a very physical manner, as a set of physical connections. Its like trying to UPLOAD data into an old telephone switchboard. There is no way to do it other than physically changing the connections and perhaps adding some more wires (or removing) where needed.

-AntonK

invert_nexus
10-20-06, 01:30 AM
A chip or some other storage device could store the data and interface with the brain.

Also, computational devices could be implanted to perform other functions.

Syzygys
10-20-06, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the responses, but the OP asked what IF... So just IMAGINE that it is possible...

weed_eater_guy
10-20-06, 07:40 PM
I don't think downloading data would be as important as the fact that we will be able to educate children with much better ability. Think about it, years ago, if you needed to look something up, you went to the library, or if you were lucky enough to own an encyclopedia, look it up and hope it had the information you needed. Nowadays, a quick search on wikipedia shows almost any topic you need, and that's only a minescule fraction of the data at our fingertips. Learning now goes a bit faster for that reason: less time spent scanning books and such.

If you can cut down on the time spent learning significantly enough, you could theoredically learn many years worth of, let's say, math, in a matter of months. This might not be to inconcievable if one had access to virtual-reality simulators or classroom holograms to demonstrate math and science at work quickly and effectively. English classes could be much more effective if a means of letting one read quicker and write faster were found (let's imagine a neural implant doing this job). I mean, it takes me hours to do a paper, what if you could just think about your wording and have that appear on a screen instantaneously? How many words per minute do you think your mind could be capable of? It's probably alot faster than what you can type by hand.

We'll have the technology to learn faster long before we have the technology to upload data to our minds matrix-style.

It also doesn't help that, as AntonK said, they'd probably have to learn how to read before they can write to the human mind. And it doesn't help that computing power will need a while to reach the shade over 100,000 terabytes of data the human mind supposedly is composed of (read it somewhere on Orion's Arm, orionsarm.com, can't remember the exact location on the site).

Syzygys
10-20-06, 08:38 PM
OK, so on a forum full of science geeks nobody can IMAGINE the scenario that we could upload data to the brain? Man, I overestimated this forum...

Chatha
10-21-06, 09:33 AM
Actually there are particular fields and researches on that topic going on in California, I'd find details for you later if I have the time. Bare with me. I like the idea, it certainly will make education cheaper and efficient. Any ideas on this brilliant mechanism?

AntonK
10-21-06, 11:34 AM
A great deal more research would have to be done. We have no ideas about the true organization of the brain. Say for instance we did want to take the knowledge of a 60 year old surgeon and put it into a 6 year old as you have proposed. How do we seperate the KNOWLEDGE that the surgeon posesses from the personality and the parts that make the surgeon him. This is especially perplexing considering we know that skills and abilities are not stored as memories exactly, as amnesia patients often exhibit the abilitiy to complete tasks they don't remember learning. Yet, at the same time (and slightly contradictory) new research is just now showing that our knowledge of language (which ones you are fluent in and which is your primary) will affect your personality. So there is a lot we do not know about the structure of the brain and the human mind itself.

Another question we have to ask is whether or not data would even be compatible. For instance if I learned task X and we wanted then to give that information to you, would you be in ANY way able to use the information? The reason I ask is because the knowledge of how to do task X inside my mind is completely dependent upon all the other knowledge and skills in my mind (as that is how I learned it). It stands to reason then that even if we could transfer the parts of my mind that contain that skill, it wouldn't even make sense to your mind.

-AntonK

pilpaX
10-25-06, 11:47 AM
maybe only data that contains some previously learned standard stuff. like cookbook, everybody knows whats egg or milk, but we still need recepy to make a pie out of them. if you teach somebody some basic stuff about hypodermic syringes and scalpels you can later on upload surgeon, dentist,etc skills or howtos

madanthonywayne
10-25-06, 12:09 PM
This all brings to mind The Matrix. Who can forget the scene where Keanu says, "I know kung-fu!"

Of course, even within the context of the movie, it seemed there was a bit of practice needed to really assymilate the knowledge.

Even assuming a Matrix like technology that could download virtually any into into your brain, not everyone could be a surgeon or whatever.

Consider a computer. You can load any program you like onto your computer. But if you download XP to a computer designed for DOS, the computer will either crash or run really slow.

Consider the implications for science. They say physicists make their greatest contributions in their twenties, when their brains are still flexible enough to imagine totally new things. The limitation is a person must first learn a ton of stuff to get to the point that he can apply that creativity, and that learning takes time.

Now imagine a situation where you can instantly know what an expert in physics knows. You could immediately begin breaking new ground. It could usher in a period of unrivaled discovery in science.

Now imagine some people lack the ability to upload info in this way. They'd be considered practically retarded.

spidergoat
10-25-06, 12:15 PM
For this to work, the chip would have to act like a fully functioning brain. Knowledge alone is not the same as skill. Consider martial arts, besides physical conditioning, you need conditioned reflexes.

If you had a chip that functioned like a brain, people would be immortal. Someone like Einstein dies, and we just reload his brain into someone else, perhaps a prisoner condemned to death, or a child (problematic), or a volunteer.

S.A.M.
10-25-06, 02:29 PM
For this to work, the chip would have to act like a fully functioning brain. Knowledge alone is not the same as skill. Consider martial arts, besides physical conditioning, you need conditioned reflexes.

If you had a chip that functioned like a brain, people would be immortal. Someone like Einstein dies, and we just reload his brain into someone else, perhaps a prisoner condemned to death, or a child (problematic), or a volunteer.

Need not always be a positive result.

Have you read The Boys from Brazil?

francois
10-25-06, 02:46 PM
What if a few years/decades from now we will invent a way of storing and up/downloading the knowledge and memories of the brain?

So let's say a 6 years old child could be uploaded in 1 min with the knowledge and experiences of a 60 years old neurosurgeon or a rocketscientist?

That would make schooling obsolate for sure, but wouldn't that degrade knowledge itself? Since everybody could learn anything in a matter of seconds,
everybody would be an Einstein.
Well, remember that knowledge is not the same thing as intelligence. Knowing something doesn't make you smarter; it makes you more knowledgeable. And yeah, it would make a given quantity of information less valuable. But there will be so much more to go around. It will still be valuable. You'll just need more.

But if we had this kind of technology, we'd most definitely have the technology to improve current brains. I'm talking about brain implants, cognition enhancing drugs, etc. That's one of the things that's unrealistic about The Matrix.

Also what would kids do with their extra time between 6-16?
They would probably spend a lot of time in virtual reality. Remember, if you can scan and read a person's brain, then people could share information directly, from brain to brain. No speaking necessary. What are those kids going to be doing in virtual reality? Probably sex.