View Full Version : If a man is raped by a woman...


lepustimidus
07-20-08, 06:31 PM
and she falls pregnant and gives birth, should he have to pay child support to his offspring for the next 18 years?

Orleander
07-20-08, 06:34 PM
Not if he's prove he was raped. Her ass better be in jail and the child taken away from her at birth.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:35 PM
How exactly can we figure out who raped who in a raping situation?

Orleander
07-20-08, 06:39 PM
The police/courts decide. If its proven, she should be in jail and stripped of her parental rights once the child is born.

snake river rufus
07-20-08, 06:39 PM
How likely is it that a woman can rape a man? We are mostly bigger and stronger and (when sober) guys aren't known for doing anything that we don't want to.

Orleander
07-20-08, 06:41 PM
What about a 13 yr old molested by a teacher who then gets pregnant.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:44 PM
How likely is it that a woman can rape a man?

just as likely as a man can rape a woman is a woman likely to rape a man. This isnt about strength...in any situation anything is possible.

snake river rufus
07-20-08, 06:45 PM
Those things do happen, rarely but,,,
I remember being a thirteen year old boy- a smile and a nod would have been enough for me to get busy. I do make a slight distinction between statutory and forceable rape.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:46 PM
I dont know this whole rape thing is so volatile in nature...

snake river rufus
07-20-08, 06:46 PM
just as likely as a man can rape a woman is a woman likely to rape a man. This isnt about strength...in any situation anything is possible.

But probable?

draqon
07-20-08, 06:47 PM
But probable?

yes probable, I for example am very calm person...women in this state and country in all are extremely crazy and active...not calm

Bells
07-20-08, 06:48 PM
and she falls pregnant and gives birth, should he have to pay child support to his offspring for the next 18 years?

No. He should not be made to pay child support. Rape victims should not be further victimised than they already have been by their rapist and the system.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:49 PM
Just because I got muscles and body build does not increase probability of me being a rapist.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:51 PM
No. He should not be made to pay child support. Rape victims should not be further victimised than they already have been by their rapist and the system.

yea well how do we know who is the rape victim here? Lets just say she managed to find a large daddy-o with big money...she called her boys over to tie him up...raped him...than she untied him. Ran away and went to court and said that he raped her...crying her innocent tears the judge believed her especially seeing the daddy-o's big frame and all, and now he is paying his money to support her 2 brats. :(

draqon
07-20-08, 06:53 PM
hows that for rights.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:54 PM
Yo how come I don't see violent rape stricken people talking here when it is a man being raped discussed?

Orleander
07-20-08, 06:56 PM
...she called her boys over to tie him up...raped him...than she untied him. ...

I would think he would have some bruises from being forcibly tied up. That should support what he is saying.

draqon
07-20-08, 06:58 PM
I would think he would have some bruises from being forcibly tied up. That should support what he is saying.

ok fine...another situation a man with large muscles and money and all actually goes over and rapes a woman...he than purposely puts bruises over his arms for the jury to see.. The innocent woman has her innocent tears in court...the judge sees the man's bruises and hear her story...

now what? :bugeye: who is the judge going to believe? :bugeye:

Orleander
07-20-08, 07:00 PM
Most women who are raped have internal vaginal injuries.

Is this thread really about if a man can be raped or not??? I thought it was about 'should a raped man have to pay child support?'

draqon
07-20-08, 07:01 PM
Most women who are raped have internal vaginal injuries.

Is this thread really about if a man can be raped or not??? I thought it was about 'should a raped man have to pay child support?'

well if a man really was raped than no he should not pay for child support, I think its pretty obvious from the poll that we all agree on that.

The question is who decides who is the true victim of the raping situation...

lepustimidus
07-20-08, 07:01 PM
Thanks Orleander. Nice to see someone trying to keep this poll on topic.

Norsefire
07-20-08, 07:02 PM
No, since it was not consentual and therefore the man doesn't need to have responsiblity over the child


Rather, the child should be given up for adoption and the woman jailed. Although I support capital punishment for rape crimes, I just feel different when it's a woman in question.

draqon
07-20-08, 07:03 PM
Thanks Orleander. Nice to see someone trying to keep this poll on topic.

the poll obviously shows that it is of no question that everyone agrees that if a man was actually raped he should not pay for some pregnant deed of the raper.

Orleander
07-20-08, 07:05 PM
the poll obviously shows that it is of no question that everyone agrees that if a man was actually raped he should not pay for some pregnant deed of the raper.

I think more than 5 people have to respond. I think a poll has to be active for more than an hour to be conclusive. :rolleyes:

Norsefire
07-20-08, 07:05 PM
I wish we would have like cold-blooded aliens from another galaxy being our judges...that way they would not lean to any sexes, nor males, nor females, and judge equally.

Perhaps. Law will be imperfect in that it is run by imperfect beings.

Norsefire
07-20-08, 07:18 PM
Law will be imperfect in that it is run by the beings they are themselves the judges and judged of.

I don't know what you're saying.

Norsefire
07-20-08, 07:22 PM
I am saying that law is imperfect when it is applied to the same people who are the victims of that law and its creators.

We humans make the law and we ourselves are affected by it.

Of course. Who else can govern us?

Norsefire
07-20-08, 07:27 PM
like I said...someone else...like aliens who are not part of our own society and can cold-blooded and emotion-less but extremely neutral and obedient to morality and logic.

Or...machines...but than an algorithm for judge robot would have to be made by another robot...to loose track of the human algorithm ;)

Morality is entirely subjective. Without morality, there can be no law, and therefore, only a being that has morality can administer law.

Law is nothing more than a moral code accepted by society. If I felt that torturing others was the righteous thing to do, who can call me wrong?

Norsefire
07-20-08, 07:29 PM
Someone from an outside...who sees a bigger picture besides you...someone who is also not involved in any of it.

No, nobody can. That somebody would still be using a morality, their own moral code. Logics cannot solve law.

Orleander
07-20-08, 07:29 PM
draqon, your posts have nothing, less than nothing, to do with the poll. Are you trolling?

Simon Anders
07-20-08, 07:31 PM
(just an aside - this topic is focused on a very rare situation. A woman rapes a man. She gets pregnant from this act. It is proven through DNA testing that the child is his. She goes to court and tries to force child support. Perhaps this has happened once or twice. Though I have never heard about it. So I wondered if this situation and the poll related to it will be used to draw conclusions or as part of an argument related to something else. Of course, its rarity of occurance does not make it wrong to talk about. I just wondered it if had some greater relevence.)

James R
07-21-08, 12:06 AM
lepustimidus:


If a woman rapes a man and she falls pregnant and gives birth, should he have to pay child support to his offspring for the next 18 years?

No.

But have you ever heard of that happening anyway? Do you have even a single real example case?


draqon


How exactly can we figure out who raped who in a raping situation?

Err... use your brain?


snake river rufus:


How likely is it that a woman can rape a man? We are mostly bigger and stronger and (when sober) guys aren't known for doing anything that we don't want to.

I'd say it would be fairly uncommon.

snake river rufus
07-21-08, 12:38 AM
snake river rufus:



I'd say it would be fairly uncommon.

Other than a statutory rape I can only (vaguely) recall one from Florida about 12 or 15 years back. IIRC that one was two women seeking thrills or some such.

lepustimidus
07-21-08, 01:01 AM
For everyone here saying 'OMG how does a man get raped by a woman?'... can you retards use Google?

After literally 10 seconds of searching:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/ask-dr-helen-can-a-man-be-raped-by-a-woman/



Dr. Helen, I’ve recently been coming to grips with the fact that I was raped by a woman. While doing online research, I happened upon your blog and read several entries, most notably the relevant “Can Women be Predators?”

If you don’t mind, I’d like to share my story with you.

I am now an editor at a small book company and an activist but in my earlier life I was a Marine.

On a Friday night in 1990, after hanging out with a friend for several hours at a club — said friend disappeared for the night and left his female friend (stranger to me) without a ride and about 35 miles from home. I was plastered, and not going to drive as the club was next to a motel. She asked for a ride and I offered to drive her home in the morning as she was about 6 months pregnant, but I was going to have to get a motel room for the evening as I was drunk and not driving in such a state. We decided to split the cost of the room and both agreed that sleeping was all that was going to take place. She was pregnant and also not my type in the slightest. At the time, I thought I was in love with a woman attending a local college. I seem to recall we even had separate beds.

I woke up about 2 hours later — still destroyed by the alcohol — to find my clothes removed from the waist down and the girl on top of me wailing like a banshee and quite roughly enjoying herself. She had apparently brought me to erection — not hard as I’m one of those men who can hold one for hours, awake or asleep, sober or drunk. She told me everything was okay and to go back to sleep and despite my best effort to the contrary, I was unable to move or speak coherently in my still very inebriated and half-conscious state and did fall asleep again quickly.

After most of my drunken stupor wore off around 7 am or so, I awoke again to find her on top of me — this time with a more menacing attitude as she knew I was in a better position to respond physically this time. I had began to wiggle out from under her (taking care not to hurt her baby) when she sternly warned me to “be quiet” and “not be forceful” and made it clear that she would cry rape if I tried to stop it. I was stunned to say the least and not sure how to respond. I could easily have thrown her across the room and off of me, but was concerned for her child and took her threat very, very seriously. She said it so easily that I doubt I was her first.

I weighed my options for a moment and came to the conclusion that a sober, 6 or 7-month pregnant college student of 24 was far more likely to be believed by the authorities than a drunk 19-year old Marine in the best shape of his life. I frequented that club a lot and I’m sure several people saw me leave with her. I was pretty much f*cked — in more than one way — at that point.

I complied by lying still while she continued to warn and threaten me and she eventually orgasmed again and got off me. I don’t know how long the second rape transpired as I tried to disconnect my mind from that scene. Further, I have no idea how many times she had actually raped me that night (at least twice), but I was extremely sore for a few days. As a small favor, she turned out to be disease free.

I’ve always tried to pretend it was nothing or play it off like an uncomfortable memory of a wild night that ended weird whenever the memory surfaced.

After 17 years of pretending, the floodgates opened this week (thanks to a wonderful woman I work with) and it has been extremely difficult to deal with as my denial was swept away. I have a lot of counseling in my future in order to heal after the band-aid was ripped away.

This was very difficult to admit, not only personally, but to a very dear friend who has been there before. As you know, rape is about power and control. She had power over me that night, even though I could have easily thrown her across the room and off me. Her pregnancy and threat of jail against me were the only weapons she needed to have her way that night.

I spend a great deal of time on civil liberties issues fighting for those without a voice through my publications working on national coalitions with the ACLU and tons of other organization leaders spanning the spectrum from left to right. It is very hard to see myself in the role of victim now, given how much time I devote to advocacy efforts.

Thank you for listening and thank you for what you do.

lepustimidus
07-21-08, 01:05 AM
By the way, read the replies to his story. Misandry galore.

Asguard
07-21-08, 01:13 AM
James R i surpose it depends if your refering to satitory rape or rape rape

if you mean stat rape there was that school teacher in the US who raped a 13? year old and when she got out of prision i THINK she forced him to pay for the kid but i dont quite rember the exact case so i could be wrong

shorty_37
07-21-08, 01:18 AM
[QUOTE=lepustimidus;1935052]For everyone here saying 'OMG how does a man get raped by a woman?'... can you retards use Google?


Jeez... who needs Google 2 guys were raped by girls on Soap Opera in just the last couple months. Both of which turned up pregnant :p

Scenario #1 She met up with this guy who was having some drinks and joined him. She told the bartender to only send her nonalcoholic drinks. She pretended she was getting drunk but she was drinking "virgin" cocktails and only playing drunk. This guy got pretty drunk and to top it off slipped something into his drink. Then she got someone to help her get him to her car and said she would get him home safely.

She drove off to a deserted street because it was about 2 am, nobody around. She stopped the car leaned over and unbuttoned his pants and got ontop of him. He was so out of it he went along with it almost passed out the whole time.

She checked before she met up with him and knew it was a good time for her to get pregnant.............After she was done with him she took of some of her clothes and his shirt and stuff. She pulled him over so it was like he was laying ontop of her. He woke up and was like WTF happened here ??

Of course she played all innocent....Don't you remember? You got so drunk, I was drunk and you came onto me. I tried to drive you home but you wouldn't get off me so I pulled over. You were all over me and we ended up having sex.... NO WAY?? really I don't remember any of that....

So far she hasn't told him she is pregnant but she just took the test this week :D

He is proposing to his g/f right now too....So next weeks show will be interesting lolol

Asguard
07-21-08, 01:36 AM
forget soaps there was a guy in melbourne (i think) raped at knife point by a women and her husband

James R
07-21-08, 02:55 AM
For everyone here saying 'OMG how does a man get raped by a woman?'... can you retards use Google?

What about the retards who want examples of your thread topic?

Asguard
07-21-08, 03:01 AM
james i have to agree with him in part, we just debated is rape wrong and yet we didnt provide one example to prove rape HAPPENs, im sorry but men do get raped, mostly by other men but also sometimes women its a FACT no evidence is nessary

Simon Anders
07-21-08, 11:08 AM
Other than a statutory rape I can only (vaguely) recall one from Florida about 12 or 15 years back. IIRC that one was two women seeking thrills or some such.And did they get pregnant and then prove paternity and then seek child support?

Simon Anders
07-21-08, 11:13 AM
For everyone here saying 'OMG how does a man get raped by a woman?'... can you retards use Google?

I'm not sure if you include me in the retards, but my point was not that men cannot be raped by women. I am sure it happens, though incredibly rarely. However that the man gets raped, the woman gets pregnant, she manages to prove paternity and then goes to court to force him to pay child support....

That sounds rather exceptional. What do you see as the point of this thread?

visceral_instinct
07-21-08, 11:47 AM
and she falls pregnant and gives birth, should he have to pay child support to his offspring for the next 18 years?

Of course not, for fuck's sake! I don't know why you even felt the need to ask this. Common morality would tell us he should not have to pay for a child he was forced to father against his will.

As for the people in here who are asking how a man can be raped.....ngh, there's no delicate way to phrase this...you do know that men regularly get erections while under REM sleep?


She checked before she met up with him and knew it was a good time for her to get pregnant.............After she was done with him she took of some of her clothes and his shirt and stuff. She pulled him over so it was like he was laying ontop of her. He woke up and was like WTF happened here ??



I want to kill her, I really do, that's such a sick thing to do to someone.

Cellar_Door
07-22-08, 02:18 PM
just as likely as a man can rape a woman is a woman likely to rape a man. This isnt about strength...in any situation anything is possible.

Just as likely? I don't think so: we're talking about exceptional cases here.


I want to kill her, I really do, that's such a sick thing to do to someone.

In some ways it would be harder for a man to come to terms with. Gender-reversed rape is similar to domestic violence in that it somehow emasculates the man in the eyes of those around him. Rape is normally a display of strength, aggression and sexual appetite - stereotypically male qualities. It's because of this that it is estimated that there are a fair few unreported cases out there; perhaps even victims who don't know they are victims.

We all need to be a bit more understanding. The virago and the timid male have become caricatures to be laughed at, while we would never find an abused and beaten woman funny under any circumstances.

visceral_instinct
07-22-08, 02:35 PM
Just as likely? I don't think so: we're talking about exceptional cases here.



In some ways it would be harder for a man to come to terms with. Gender-reversed rape is similar to domestic violence in that it somehow emasculates the man in the eyes of those around him. Rape is normally a display of strength, aggression and sexual appetite - stereotypically male qualities. It's because of this that it is estimated that there are a fair few unreported cases out there; perhaps even victims who don't know they are victims.

We all need to be a bit more understanding. The virago and the timid male have become caricatures to be laughed at, while we would never find an abused and beaten woman funny under any circumstances.

Completely agree. What the fuck makes abuse funny when it's a male victim? He's still a human being, for fuck's sake.

CutsieMarie89
07-22-08, 02:44 PM
I have heard of a case where a woman was so desperate for a baby that she collected stolen semen from men to do it. That isn't exatly rape, but the child would still be theirs. Victims should not have to be held responsible for the actions of the ones who hurt them. Bringing a third party into it (the child) is even worse. People can be so terrible.

angrybellsprout
07-22-08, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure if you include me in the retards, but my point was not that men cannot be raped by women. I am sure it happens, though incredibly rarely. However that the man gets raped, the woman gets pregnant, she manages to prove paternity and then goes to court to force him to pay child support....

That sounds rather exceptional. What do you see as the point of this thread?

I'm just wondering how common you seem to think it is for a man to rape a woman, when you attempt to downplay women raping men by saying oh but it is just rare...

visceral_instinct
07-22-08, 03:17 PM
I'm just wondering how common you seem to think it is for a man to rape a woman, when you attempt to downplay women raping men by saying oh but it is just rare...

Ah come on. It is FAR more common for men to rape women than vice versa. That's not misandry, that's a FACT. Grow some fucking skin. He was not downplaying it, just stating the fact that it is rare.

What the fuck satisfies you that people are not misandrists? It seems that anyone who is not ranting at the top of their lungs about how women are the oppressors must be a misandrist, according to you.

angrybellsprout
07-22-08, 03:58 PM
Just like it is FAR more common for men to be apart of non-reciprocal interpersonal violence towards women?

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/vol42/issue15/images/medium/joan_women_aggressors.gif

visceral_instinct
07-22-08, 04:03 PM
I was not referring to 'interpersonal violence' (what a stupid term, of course it is 'interpersonal'. Are your intestines gonna have fights with each other???), I was talking about RAPE.

Tiassa
07-22-08, 04:21 PM
Mod Hat — On sources and arguments

Apparently I need to hover over this place and lead some people by the hand.



For everyone here saying 'OMG how does a man get raped by a woman?'... can you retards use Google?

As I recall, sir, earlier this year when we tried communicating more directly, you mentioned something about university. I had thought you meant as a student, but that's my failure to clarify. For, surely, if you were a student, you would realize the value of being able to provide some sort of evidence to support your argument.

If a thread is not important enough to willingly provide some sort of example of what you are referring to without the whole contemptuous-bastard routine, then put it somewhere other than EM&J. Seriously, if it's not important to you, don't expect anyone else to take it seriously.

Tiassa
07-22-08, 04:29 PM
The moral of the story so far seems to be the same for women as it is for men: If you are raped, report the incident immediately.

Do not pass "Go". Do not collect $200. Do not have a drink, pop a pill, smoke a joint, take a shower. And certainly do not wait until a child is born to deny paternity on the grounds that you were raped.

In the meantime, how often does this actually happen?

No, a man who is raped should not have to pay child support.

Simon Anders
07-22-08, 08:07 PM
I'm just wondering how common you seem to think it is for a man to rape a woman, when you attempt to downplay women raping men by saying oh but it is just rare... My issue has been the relevence of the thread. Any women who rape men should be tried and put away. I am focused on the thread topic. Specifically its relevence. So far L has not produced even a single case.

Reading the thread title one might think either some men are being forced to pay child support in this situation or at least one man has
or at least that the OP writer thinks this has or will happen.

draqon
07-22-08, 08:09 PM
SimonAnders the womanizer
Angrybellsprout the menanizer

lol

Simon Anders
07-22-08, 08:31 PM
SimonAnders the womanizer



wom·an·iz·er
–noun
a philanderer.
I know you were playing, but I don't get the joke.

I think angrybellsprout is being strange. I think most men would find this thread strange. From sexist men to men who think men and women are equal to men who identify themselves as feminists.

Walk into any bar and ask the guys how many women are demanding child support from the man they raped
and they will look at you funny.

Simon Anders
07-22-08, 09:55 PM
james i have to agree with him in part, we just debated is rape wrong and yet we didnt provide one example to prove rape HAPPENs, im sorry but men do get raped, mostly by other men but also sometimes women its a FACT no evidence is nessary
But the thread is not simply about men being raped by a woman. It is a specific scenario.

Woman rapes man.
Woman gets pregant.
Woman proves paternity.
Woman seeks child support.

Perhaps L really believes this is important. If you look at my first post on the rarity issue I said


(just an aside - this topic is focused on a very rare situation. A woman rapes a man. She gets pregnant from this act. It is proven through DNA testing that the child is his. She goes to court and tries to force child support. Perhaps this has happened once or twice. Though I have never heard about it. So I wondered if this situation and the poll related to it will be used to draw conclusions or as part of an argument related to something else. Of course, its rarity of occurance does not make it wrong to talk about. I just wondered it if had some greater relevence.)

This is hardly a demand for proof. I actually assume he knows it is incredibly rare and is 'up to something' - though I do not mean this in necessarily a negative way.

Should he respond that the scenario actually is common, I might take a different tack.

Notice that he mentions HOW FAST he could google his way to a case where a man was raped (but no mention of the pregnancy, paternity and demands for child support) as if google's speed at finding something might imply something about the incidence rate.

If I start a thread.

If an American citizen flies to France and is beaten by custom officials, should he pay for the bloodstains on their uniforms?

I at least expect there to be a specific example we are talking about. In thread like this one would generally expect it to be a general issue in some way.

OR.........

It is some kind of thought experiment or proves a point about some other issue.

I tried to clarify this issue with L.

The only response so far by him was aimed generally at the retards - notice Asguard: it was not aimed at those making unfair demands, but at retards - only describes one man who was raped by a woman.

I think your defense is too kind.

Both James and I have been trying to understand the relevence of something we consider incredibly rare.

So far he has not even asserted that it isn't rare. Nor has he explained his point.

I certainly don't think a raped man should pay child support for the child conceived during that rape. Perhaps I have assumed too much. Is he meeting a lot of resistance or controversy on this issue. I am quite sure James will back him up on this issue.

However

And....?

is the inevitable follow-up. What is he getting at?

James R
07-22-08, 10:32 PM
ABS:


Just like it is FAR more common for men to be apart of non-reciprocal interpersonal violence

I think your data is badly skewed, probably deliberately.

What was the source?

How was "non-reciprocal violence" defined, exactly?

Please provide links.

Simon Anders
07-22-08, 11:07 PM
Just like it is FAR more common for men to be apart of non-reciprocal interpersonal violence towards women?

This implies that you believe men being raped by women is not far less common. Is this what you believe?

James R
07-22-08, 11:33 PM
I've done a minimal amount of research, and quickly found a number of articles that dispute ABS's data (as I suspected they would).

Of particular interest is this one:

Incidence Rates of Violence Against Women: A Comparison of the Redesigned National Crime Victimization Survey and the 1985 National Family Violence Survey (http://new.vawnet.org/category/Main_Doc.php?docid=385)

A brief extract (but please read the whole thing):


Notice that rates of violence perpetrated by wives against husbands are very similar to rates of violence perpetrated by husbands against wives. Herein lies one of the most frequent criticisms of the CTS methodology, that it measures acts of violence in isolation from the circumstances under which the acts were committed. As critics point out, the CTS ignores who initiates the violence, the relative size and strength of the persons involved, and the nature of the participant's relationship. ... "To understand the high rate of intrafamily violence by women, it is also important to realize that many of the assaults by women against their husbands are acts of retaliation or self-defense. One of the most fundamental reasons why women are violent within the family (but rarely outside the family) is that for a typical American women, her home is the location where there is the most serious risk of assault (p.98)." This, of course, remains only conjecture since the CTS does not account for the sequence of events which precipitate and act of violence.

And...


Comparing the Victimization and Family Violence Surveys

From this table, it can be seen that rates of intimate-perpetrated violence estimated using the Victimization Survey are lower than those obtained from the Family Violence Survey. Also notice, however, that unlike estimates from the Family Violence Survey, the Victimization Survey indicates that women are much more likely to experience an act of intimate-perpetrated violence than are men (9.3 per 1,000 versus 1.4 per 1,000).

In addition, unlike the Family Violence Survey, the sample for the Victimization Survey includes all persons, regardless of their marital or living status. Thus, the Victimization Survey can also estimate rates of intimate-perpetrated violence for single, divorced, and never married women. This is important because rates of intimate-perpetrated violence for these women have been found to be significantly higher than those for married women. For example, rates of intimate-perpetrated violence for separated women are over 8 times higher than rates for married women: a rate of 2.7 per 1,000 married women versus a rate of 82.2 per 1,000 separated women (Bachman & Saltzman, 1995).

angrybellsprout
07-22-08, 11:42 PM
To understand the high rate of intrafamily violence by women, it is also important to realize that many of the assaults by women against their husbands are acts of retaliation or self-defense

Looks like James Retard can't figure out what the phrase non-reciprocal interpersonal violence means.

Then again this is the same retard who can't even look at a graphic and notice that the sources for said graphic are stated within the graphic itself.

Asguard
07-22-08, 11:44 PM
james, though i suspect his stats are wrong to, he has stated his come from the CDC where as yours come from a vilonce against womens group which is hardly an unbiased source

Simon Anders
07-23-08, 12:18 AM
Looks like James Retard can't figure out what the phrase non-reciprocal interpersonal violence means.

Then again this is the same retard who can't even look at a graphic and notice that the sources for said graphic are stated within the graphic itself.

Your statistics are just peachy. You seem to be better at finding information than the OP writer.

Could you find some statistics on how many men who have been raped by women have been compelled to pay child support for the child conceived during the rape.

Your other statistics are, as I said, just peachy, but not really on topic.

James R
07-23-08, 12:27 AM
Looks like James Retard can't figure out what the phrase non-reciprocal interpersonal violence means.

I specifically asked you for the definition earlier. I see you have not provided it.

Randwolf
07-23-08, 02:04 AM
Here we go again, people...

Can't vouch for the source but

http://www.techimo.com/forum/imo-community/150314-man-gang-raped-3-women.html viewed at 3:06 AM EST
Man 'gang-raped' by 3 women

24/08/2005 22:52 - (SA)

Borrie la Grange

Johannesburg - A 30-year-old man was off to play pool when three women asked him to direct them to a hotel and he claims they raped him in turn after they had had drinks.

The man, from Roodepoort on the West Rand, was walking from his flat to an entertainment centre shortly after 17:00 on Sunday night when three women in a maroon BMW stopped him.

Captain Paula Nothnagel of the police said the women, aged between 20 and 30, asked him how to get to the Savoy Hotel.

"He explained, but they apparently insisted he should go with them to show them the way.

"He got into the car with them," she said.

On arriving at the hotel the women invited him for a drink.

After drinks and a chat, they asked him to show them where the Station Hotel was.

"On the way to the hotel, the driver suddenly changed direction and drove to an open piece of veld near the Durban Roodepoort Deep mine.

Kept gun on him all the time

"One of the women pulled out a gun and held up the man while the other two undressed.

"Then all three of them raped him in turn, with one of them keeping the gun pointed at him," said Nothnagel.

When they had finished, they forced the man back into the car and dropped him off in Main Ridge Road shortly before 02:00. He walked home and contacted the police on Monday.

Nothnagel said detectives from the police unit for family violence, child protection and sexual offences were still trying to trace the women.
http://www.techimo.com/forum/imo-community/150314-man-gang-raped-3-women.html viewed at 3:06 AM EST

What if the woman (women) got pregnant, does this count? I have a feeling that the outcome is different if it is a woman raping a man than if a man rapes a woman. Just a guess....

Enmos
07-23-08, 02:06 AM
yes probable, I for example am very calm person...women in this state and country in all are extremely crazy and active...not calm

Would you remain calm while being raped ?

Randwolf
07-23-08, 02:07 AM
The moral of the story so far seems to be the same for women as it is for men: If you are raped, report the incident immediately.

Do not pass "Go". Do not collect $200. Do not have a drink, pop a pill, smoke a joint, take a shower. And certainly do not wait until a child is born to deny paternity on the grounds that you were raped.

In the meantime, how often does this actually happen?

No, a man who is raped should not have to pay child support.

Oh, and since Kadark doesn't seem to be around to say it, "Go eat a dick Tiassa"

Orleander
07-23-08, 06:03 AM
but Randwolf, Tiassa is right.

Randwolf
07-23-08, 09:35 AM
Actually, I agree. Tiassa is right. Just couldn't resist the chance to say that... :p

Gustav
07-23-08, 09:45 AM
i suppose then reporting crimes ensures that justice is meted out

a woman raped ..... she was asking for it
a guy raped ......... pussy

Simon Anders
07-23-08, 10:41 AM
Here we go again, people...

Can't vouch for the source but

http://www.techimo.com/forum/imo-community/150314-man-gang-raped-3-women.html viewed at 3:06 AM EST
Man 'gang-raped' by 3 women

http://www.techimo.com/forum/imo-community/150314-man-gang-raped-3-women.html viewed at 3:06 AM EST

What if the woman (women) got pregnant, does this count? I have a feeling that the outcome is different if it is a woman raping a man than if a man rapes a woman. Just a guess....

Look, it's a fine example of a man getting raped by a woman or women. I certainly think it happens. I even think it is possible that some woman somewhere raped a man and then later tried to get child support. I consider that possible and obviously an even more offensive chain of events than 'just' being raped.

However what is L really up to here. If we can't find that single example yet, what is the point of the thread.

If you read the title you get the impression that at least one poor guy out there has not only suffered rape by a woman but is now being squeezed for money.

And given that we now have a couple of examples of men being raped by women and angrybellsprout's outrage that this kind of crime is much less common than the reverse, when are we going to have the thread where we give advice to men
about how to avoid being raped by women.

In your example the man drank
with three women.
In other words he was outnumbered and given that he was drinking perhaps less able to defend himself and read warning signs.

Simon Anders
07-23-08, 10:42 AM
i suppose then reporting crimes ensures that justice is meted out

a woman raped ..... she was asking for it
a guy raped ......... pussy
It is one of the few crimes where in general in the aftermath people judge you as having deserved it
and potentially no longer being an adequate member of your sex.

s0meguy
07-23-08, 01:47 PM
I know a guy who once woke up with his penis in the mouth of his female employer... at a party. He freaked out and ran outside... it was funny... People laughed and no charges were filed. Now what if the same would happen, the other way around?

Personally I wouldn't mind getting raped by a few hot girls... but then it wouldn't be rape anymore would it :P

ashura
07-23-08, 01:59 PM
Simon's right on the money, the poll's question is so bizarre, so unusual, I'm having trouble believing it could ever/did ever happen in real life.

s0meguy
07-23-08, 02:02 PM
Simon's right on the money, the poll's question is so bizarre, so unusual, I'm having trouble believing it could ever/did ever happen in real life.

Read post #64, and mine before yours...

ashura
07-23-08, 02:04 PM
In neither of those two instances did the woman get pregnant and demand child support.

s0meguy
07-23-08, 02:07 PM
Well why couldn't it happen, if women are capable of raping men?

ashura
07-23-08, 02:13 PM
I never denied that women are capable of raping men. But think about it, the OP's situation is like a male rapist demanding custody or prison-visitation for his child by the woman he raped? How often have you heard of that?

Medicine*Woman
07-23-08, 03:24 PM
*************
M*W: I voted "yes," because it's downright impossible for a woman to rape a man. Women seduce men, but women don't rape them. Men don't usually complain of rape nor do they consider it abuse. They may not like the fact that they have been overcome (no pun intended) by a woman's wiles, but they were plain just weak. If they did complain, they would be ridiculed. In fact, most men like being on the receiving end of the stick (no pun intended). If a woman has the upper hand (still no pun intended), the man must like what what she's doing. If a woman drugs a man, then he can't perform anyway. Legally and technically (from my past professional experience), if a man gets an erection and ejaculates (both functions are required to impregnate--even if he doesn't want to have an erection and ejaculate), then he's considered to be enjoying it and participating in it, and he should damn well pay child support.

ashura
07-23-08, 03:31 PM
*************
M*W: I voted "yes," because it's downright impossible for a woman to rape a man. Women seduce men, but women don't rape them. Men don't usually complain of rape nor do they consider it abuse. They may not like the fact that they have been overcome (no pun intended) by a woman's wiles, but they were plain just weak. If they did complain, they would be ridiculed. In fact, most men like being on the receiving end of the stick (no pun intended). If a woman has the upper hand (still no pun intended), the man must like what what she's doing. If a woman drugs a man, then he can't perform anyway. Legally and technically (from my past professional experience), if a man gets an erection and ejaculates (both functions are required to impregnate--even if he doesn't want to have an erection and ejaculate), then he's considered to be enjoying it and participating in it, and he should damn well pay child support.

Wow... just wow. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole, someone else with the energy can tackle this.

s0meguy
07-23-08, 03:31 PM
*************
M*W: I voted "yes," because it's downright impossible for a woman to rape a man. Women seduce men, but women don't rape them. Men don't usually complain of rape nor do they consider it abuse. They may not like the fact that they have been overcome (no pun intended) by a woman's wiles, but they were plain just weak. If they did complain, they would be ridiculed. In fact, most men like being on the receiving end of the stick (no pun intended). If a woman has the upper hand (still no pun intended), the man must like what what she's doing. If a woman drugs a man, then he can't perform anyway. Legally and technically (from my past professional experience), if a man gets an erection and ejaculates (both functions are required to impregnate--even if he doesn't want to have an erection and ejaculate), then he's considered to be enjoying it and participating in it, and he should damn well pay child support.

On the last thing: it is well known that if a woman has an orgasm while being raped, it does not mean that she wasn't getting raped... so that doesn't work. As for the rest, read the thread, there is at least one legit example of a man being raped by women.

madanthonywayne
07-23-08, 03:46 PM
But have you ever heard of that happening anyway? Do you have even a single real example case?
I know I've heard of male statutary rape victims being held liable for child support. Here's a quote from an article on the subject (if doesn't list any names, perhaps because the victims are underage?)

Stories of teachers pursuing their underage students have appeared on newspaper pages far too commonly recently. As if this isn't disturbing enough, it has been reported that many women rapists have sued their "lovers" for child support — and won! http://badgerherald.com/oped/2005/09/23/gender_factor_in_chi.php
Hell, I've even heard of sperm donors being held liable for child support. The criteria is "the best interest of the child", not what is just for the man (or boy, as the case may be).

ashura
07-23-08, 03:55 PM
The story mentions the child support thing off hand, but I'd like to see an actual source. I'll be really amazed if it's true.

s0meguy
07-23-08, 04:18 PM
MW by the way, in addition to my last post. It is funny how you talk about women manipulating weak men, but what if a man manipulates a woman to have sex with him ("player").... shit hits the fan.

It is normal though, of people, to side with their own group. But I just wanted to point out this hypocrisy

madanthonywayne
07-23-08, 04:28 PM
Check this out:

Child support request leads to rape arrest http://www.poststar.com/articles/2006/10/06/news/doc4525bd1506ad1049837652.txt
Mother charged with statutory rape when Family Court realizes father was 13
and this:

Boy Victim of Statutory Rape Forced to Pay Child Support to Adult Woman Rapist
March 11, 2003
by Stephen Baskerville, Ph.D.
Men's News Daily
http://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0303/mnd030311.htm

s0meguy
07-23-08, 04:33 PM
Check this out:

and this:

"In California and Kansas, minor boys statutorily raped by adult women must pay child support to the criminals who raped him. In one case, the boy was drugged before sex."

"child support officials cleaned out the bank account of an 85-year-old grandmother whose son allegedly owed child support. The son never paid into the account, which comprised her life savings. She was also charged $75 processing fee"

Ugh.....

ashura
07-23-08, 04:34 PM
In the first link the woman got no child support because the boy is being considered a victim. The second is just nuts though, here's a longer version:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/baskerville2.html

In California, minor boys raped by adult women must pay child support to the criminals who raped them. "State law entitles the child to support from both parents, even though the boy is considered the victim of statutory rape," the district attorney's office says. One boy was drugged before the sex. Kansas courts have likewise held that "the issue of consent to sexual activity under the criminal statutes is irrelevant in a civil action to determine paternity and for support of a minor child born of such activity." So much for not letting criminals profit from their crimes.

Seriously? That's disgusting. This is from 2003, I wonder if the law's been changed at all...

Looks like lepustimidus has been vindicated. :mad:

madanthonywayne
07-23-08, 05:52 PM
Not only is consent not required for a man to be forced to pay child support, there are many cases of a man finding out a child/children aren't even his yet he's forced to pay!

Court: Man Who is Not Child's Father Must Pay Support http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0608/525145.html

DNA proves man not biological father--but child support must continue http://www.mississippifamilylawblog.com/2008/01/dna_proves_man_not_biological_1.html

angrybellsprout
07-23-08, 10:21 PM
Then it wouldn't be the best intrests of the child to let his meal ticket off the hook just because it doesn't share his blood, and we'd never actually expect the courts to tell the mother that she is simply a whore and should have to fess up and accept responsability.

lepustimidus
07-23-08, 10:47 PM
ash:


Looks like lepustimidus has been vindicated


Ironically, that wasn't the point of this thread.

Admittedly, I had an ulterior motive. In regards to abortion, many pro-lifers are willing to allow the mother to obtain a abortion after being raped. This often raises the (retarded) argument from pro-choicers that pro-lifers are woman-haters interested in nothing more than punishing the woman for having sex.

With this thread, I posted an analogous situation to gauge whether pro-choicers felt the same way about a man who is raped and the must pay child support.

After all, every person I've met is empathic that a father who willingly has sex and gets a woman pregnant should pay child support.

On the other hand, this thread has clearly demonstrated that the majority believe that a man who is raped, and as a result impregnates a woman, should not have to pay.

This poses the question to pro-choicers: Is child support simply a means of punishing a man? If child support were actually done for the child, why don't they expect a man who is raped to provide it?

And then you come to the conclusion: Child support isn't about punishing men, or just about the child, but also about holding men accountable for the outcomes of their willing actions. Likewise, when a pro-lifer want to allow raped women to procure abortions, while preventing women who had willing sex from doing likewise, this isn't meant to be punitive. But just like with the man who willingly had sex, they must accept responsibility for their behaviour.

angrybellsprout
07-23-08, 10:57 PM
You're actually expecting femtrolls to say that women should ever have to accept responsibility for any of their behaviour?

Asguard
07-23-08, 11:00 PM
this is a very interesting document that might interest people like bells (though im sure she already knows most of it) and james but MH and ABS should really read it

its produced by a center called the Australian Institute for the Study of Sexual Assult (ACSSA) under the goverment institute for family studies (commonwealth gov)

i found it while trying to find the clincal guidelines for treating sexual assult victioms ironically enough concidering that everytime i have searched for male victoms of sexual assult its come up with rapes BY males

anyway i wont post the whole document but here is the heading and the link

ACSSA Wrap
No.2 September 2006
Male survivors of sexual assault and rape
by Sarah Crome
Published by the Australian Institute of Family Studies
ISSN 1833-1483 (Print); ISSN 1834-0148 (Online)
ACSSA Coordinator: Zoë Morrison


http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/pubs/wrap/w2.html

Asguard
07-23-08, 11:15 PM
about the previlance of male victoms. if i have calculated this correctly a third of victoms are men

that number was taken from The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists medical fact sheet on sexual assult

it states that:


Prevalence, incidence & research

• It is estimated that one in four women and one in eight men experience sexual assault during their lifetime, though many instances of sexual assault are never reported. It is also estimated that one in three women and one in six men experienced sexual assault in their childhood [summary estimates of figures from Women’s Health Statewide, South Australia]

viewed 24/07/08 at 13:49 (http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:xGfDqaP57YoJ:www.ranzcog.edu.au/publications/sam/FactSheet-MRTAWHESA.pdf+medical+guidelines+for+treatments+of +sexual+assaults&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au)

as the genders are roughly equal that means 1/3 of victoms are male

Medicine*Woman
07-24-08, 12:12 PM
MW by the way, in addition to my last post. It is funny how you talk about women manipulating weak men, but what if a man manipulates a woman to have sex with him ("player").... shit hits the fan.

It is normal though, of people, to side with their own group. But I just wanted to point out this hypocrisy
*************
M*W: I never said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." It is a double-standard, and it's not fair. Unfortunately, in this day and time, there is probably more equality among the genders of the "players."

Unless we're talking about underage minor males, which I consider them as the rapees, where the female raper should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. In this case, the "playing" field is not so even. I just find it virtually impossible to rape an adult male. All circumstances are different, however, and I'm not opposed to a male bringing such an action before a jury to let them decide if it was a rape or not.

Parental guidance toward girls and boys is not an equal experience. Girls are generally taught from an early age to not let a boy or man touch her. Boys, OTOH, with the exception of teenagers, are not programmed to believe he should not let a girl or woman touch him. It's the double-standard again. The rules are one-sided, but I did not make them.

madanthonywayne
07-24-08, 01:49 PM
*************
I just find it virtually impossible to rape an adult male. It's the double-standard again. The rules are one-sided, but I did not make them.Agreed. A man getting raped by a woman sounds more like the "plot" for a cheesy porno or a wet dream than reality (notice I said man, not boy).

ashura
07-24-08, 01:57 PM
Three easy examples I can think of:

1. Drugging the man to the point where he can't fight back
2. Multiple women against one man
3. The woman having a weapon that allows her to incapacitate the man

visceral_instinct
07-24-08, 03:41 PM
You're actually expecting femtrolls to say that women should ever have to accept responsibility for any of their behaviour?

Who are these femtrolls exactly?

TW Scott
07-24-08, 08:56 PM
Medicine Woman and Madanthonywayne:

While yes it does sound far fetched, it is entirely possible for a woman to rape a man by legal definition and dictionary definition. To think otherwise is to be plain unimaginative, sexist, and (well let's just say it) stupid. I don't believe either of you are stupid, so i guess you must not be trying to use your imagination wise or are you are very sexist.

Basically anything a man can do to rape woman, a woman can turn around on a man. Even struggle is an option as the hormonal difference between Flight, Fight, or F--k are nonexistant. Men often become arroused during struggles. Also honestly arrousal does not mean a man wants to have sex with that particular woman. Just becuase it is hard does not mean men have to use it, or even want to.

Asguard
07-24-08, 08:59 PM
TW Scott did you read the links i posted?
i dont think mad or MW have because they compleatly disagree with them

Orleander
07-24-08, 09:15 PM
TW Scott did you read the links i posted?
i dont think mad or MW have because they compleatly disagree with them

maybe they are brain dead as well :D

TW Scott
07-24-08, 09:24 PM
TW Scott did you read the links i posted?
i dont think mad or MW have because they compleatly disagree with them

I read the one about the marine if that was you. However, I do know it is possible for a woman to rape a man. Hell, it's possible for a petite woman to rape Mr universe if she plans it right.

Asguard
07-24-08, 09:30 PM
no these two posts,


this is a very interesting document that might interest people like bells (though im sure she already knows most of it) and james but MH and ABS should really read it

its produced by a center called the Australian Institute for the Study of Sexual Assult (ACSSA) under the goverment institute for family studies (commonwealth gov)

i found it while trying to find the clincal guidelines for treating sexual assult victioms ironically enough concidering that everytime i have searched for male victoms of sexual assult its come up with rapes BY males

anyway i wont post the whole document but here is the heading and the link

ACSSA Wrap
No.2 September 2006
Male survivors of sexual assault and rape
by Sarah Crome
Published by the Australian Institute of Family Studies
ISSN 1833-1483 (Print); ISSN 1834-0148 (Online)
ACSSA Coordinator: Zoë Morrison


http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/pubs/wrap/w2.html


about the previlance of male victoms. if i have calculated this correctly a third of victoms are men

that number was taken from The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists medical fact sheet on sexual assult

it states that:



as the genders are roughly equal that means 1/3 of victoms are male

then there is also the victorian crimes act 1958 section 38


(3) A person (the offender) also commits rape if he or she compels a person-

(a) to sexually penetrate the offender or another person, irrespective of
whether the person being sexually penetrated consents to the act; or

(b) who has sexually penetrated the offender or another person, not to
cease sexually penetrating the offender or that other person,
irrespective of whether the person who has been sexually penetrated
consents to the act.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3), a person compels another person (the
victim) to engage in a sexual act if the person compels the victim (by force
or otherwise) to engage in that act-

(a) without the victim's consent; and

(b) while-

(i) being aware that the victim is not consenting or might not be
consenting; or

(ii) not giving any thought to whether the victim is not consenting or
might not be consenting.


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s38.html

Randwolf
07-24-08, 11:41 PM
Unforunately, I have little time to devote to SF these days, but a quick Google search turned these up (I did not try to track back and verify sources):

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/30/alimony-to-the-murderous-mom-and-child-support-to-the-female-rapist-franz-kafka-real-life-has-outdone-ya/ Viewed July 25 at 12:15 AM EST

This case reminds me a lot of one I previously read about in which a woman had sexual intercourse with a man while he was drunk and unconscious, then bragged to some friends of hers that she had saved herself a trip to the sperm bank. When a man has sex with a drunk and unconscious woman, few people have trouble calling it what it is: rape.

The woman who had sex with an unconscious man in lieu of going to the sperm bank got pregnant, as she intended, and then sued the man for child support. The court ordered him to pay it.

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/30/alimony-to-the-murderous-mom-and-child-support-to-the-female-rapist-franz-kafka-real-life-has-outdone-ya/ Viewed July 25 at 12:15 AM EST


Next Case:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.child-support/browse_thread/thread/364d4bbf2bf4cfd5/41e656fa0ba4df68?lnk=raot Viewed at d12:18AM July 25, 2008

It gets worse. Take the famous "Frank S." case(2) for example. The court ordered Frank to pay child support even though Pam lied to him about using birth control. Men can't use fraud as a defense. I'm not making this up. This demonstrates the "No" means "No" principle. When a man says "No" to parenthood, he really means 'Ignore me, I have "No" reproductive rights'.

And it's not just Frank. Ask Shane Seyer(3). Despite the fact that he was just twelve years old and too young to legally consent to sex, he was forced into parenthood by his baby sitter, and a court is making him pay child support. The February 12th 1995 issue of the St. Louis Missouri Post-Dispatch had article about another babysitter who forced a boy into fatherhood. This brings up the burning issue: did the boys' parents raise their allowances to pay child support?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.child-support/browse_thread/thread/364d4bbf2bf4cfd5/41e656fa0ba4df68?lnk=raot Viewed at d12:18AM July 25, 2008



http://truthformen.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/wrongly-convicted-man-sued-for-child-support/ Viewed 12:20 AM EST. July 25, 2008

Wrongly Convicted Man Sued for Child Support
Raleigh — A man who was pardoned after spending 18 years behind bars for a rape he didn’t commit has been sued for child support for the years he was in prison.

Wow, only in the Matriarchy, you mean the man was wrongfully convicted of rape? I thought this never happens…

Dwayne Allen Dail, 39, was cleared in August of the 1987 rape of a 12-year-old Goldsboro girl. The girl identified him as her attacker, and hair found at the scene was similar to his. DNA evidence found on a fragment of the girl’s nightgown years after the trial proved Dail wasn’t involved in the attack, however.
Gov. Mike Easley pardoned Dail two weeks ago, making him eligible to receive $360,000 from the state – $20,000 for each year he spent in prison.
Dail, who now lives in Florida, was served Tuesday with a lawsuit by Lorraine Michaels, the mother of his son, who is seeking back child support. The suit does not specify how much money she wants, as is normal in North Carolina, but asks a “reasonable sum for the care and maintenance of the minor child” for the years Dail was in prison.

Didn’t take her long to try and sponge off the man. Just when you thought people couldn’t go any lower, they do.
http://truthformen.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/wrongly-convicted-man-sued-for-child-support/ Viewed 12:20 AM EST. July 25, 2008



And while not directly on point as far as child support, here is another rape story against a man. This does happen folks! It may not be, nay, it is not as prevalent as male on female rape, but don't kid yourself, it does happen. And, the kicker is, yes, if the chickie gets pregnant, after raping the man, legally, she has a good chance of collecting child support. It's all part of "male privilege", ya know?

http://www.lasiksightplus.com/lasiknews8.html Viewed at 12:25 AM, EST, July 25, 2008

Two Women Convicted of Raping Male College Student in 2007
Saturday, March 29 2008
A Jefferson County jury found Jessica Turck and Alexandra Blackford guilty of raping 19 year old college student in May of 2007.

During a walk home from work on the night of May 15th, 2007, the victim was reportedly taken into a small sedan and driven to a nearby boat launch where the two women preformed oral sex on the male. They then took turns having sexual intercourse with the male while his arms were duct taped to the handles of the doors in the back seat. The victim was forced to ejaculate into Alexandra Blackford before leaving him at the boat launch.

The two females had no prior relationships with the male, and claimed that the act was consensual. However the male stated that he was threatened and told that he would be killed if he resisted or began to scream.

Earlier this week a jury of 5 men and 7 women found both Jessica Turck and Alexandra Blackford guilty of rape, involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, kidnapping, aggravated indecent assault, and unlawful restraint.

Jefferson County Judge Timothy Randall revoked bail for both the females and ordered them held in the county prison until sentencing.
http://www.lasiksightplus.com/lasiknews8.html Viewed at 12:25 AM, EST, July 25, 2008


But, this is all fair and equitable, right? Or maybe we will here the "statistically insignificant" argument. Or perhaps the whole concept will be dismissed out of hand as "ludicrous". Should be great. What, are we supposed to "man up" here?

Also, I noticed a reference by someone, maybe our man Tiassa, as to what "precautions' a man should take to prevent this sort of thing from happening, assuming that we grant the existence of the issue in the first place.

My answer to that one is very easy. The same f**cking precautions that women should take! Don't drink to excess in unsafe places, etc. What constitutes unsafe places? Use common sense people, those are the boundaries. It's not wizardry, it's just every day horse sense. Should we, women or men, have to take these precautions? Of course not, we shouldn't have to, but we live in reality, and reality, at least my reality, dictates that we observe / use common sense. Period.

How can this be so heretical?

madanthonywayne
07-25-08, 12:26 AM
Medicine Woman and Madanthonywayne:

While yes it does sound far fetched, it is entirely possible for a woman to rape a man by legal definition and dictionary definition. To think otherwise is to be plain unimaginative, sexist, and (well let's just say it) stupid.
I didn't say it was impossible, anything's possible. I just said, as you did, that it sounds absurd. Furthermore, I'd bet that many cases that would be considered rape or at least sexual asault by females is just considered good fun by most men.

Ever been to a strip bar? What's the rule? No touching the female strippers. She can touch you, you can't touch her. Now I've never been to a strip bar with male strippers, but from what I heard, they have the opposite rule. The female patrons are free to grope the male strippers at will.

Men and women are just different. Even if a woman is in to dominating and humiliating a man; rather than try to rape someone, she could probably get some guy to pay her to be a dominatrix.

So, yes. A woman raping a man is technically possible and may even occur from time to time. But it's really a man bites dog situation.

Asguard
07-25-08, 12:29 AM
not really mad, what about a gay guy who is raped?

as i stated before its estimated that 1 in 8 men will or have been raped at some time in there life as compared to 1 in 4 women

now the majority of rapes will be peritrated by men but not all, men are more likly to be raped by women acording to the artical i posted though it didnt have statistics

draqon
07-25-08, 12:31 AM
men or women are more likely to inflict damage on themselves before any damage is done by others.

madanthonywayne
07-25-08, 12:42 AM
not really mad, what about a gay guy who is raped?You're talking about a man raping a man? Of course that can happen. It's a big part of the deterent effect of prison. I was talking about a woman raping a man.

as i stated before its estimated that 1 in 8 men will or have been raped at some time in there life as compared to 1 in 4 womenDo you have data that breaks that down by age? I'd bet that less than 1% of those male rape victims were victimized as adults by women. Most were probably victims of child molestation.

Randwolf
07-25-08, 12:46 AM
not really mad, what about a gay guy who is raped?


Asguard, I appreciate what you are saying here, but on topic, the gay guy getting raped (presumably by other guys) doesn't exactly have to worry about paying child support, does he? The crime is still horrendous, but unless maybe I misread part of the thread, aren't we talking about the inequity of a man being forced to pay child support even if he was forced against his will to conceive a child?

And, more generally, isn't it about the unfair and disproportionate application of penalties and punishment to male rapists vs. female rapists? Some people can not even conceive of a female rapist. That's ludicrous, especially if you apply the same standards established in the recent debate - "non consensual sex is rape".

Imagine rape that you then pay for for eighteen years. Talk about adding insult to injury... :eek:

Randwolf
07-25-08, 01:02 AM
One more...

http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/04/punishing-the-v.html (http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/04/punishing-the-v.html) Viewed at 2:07 AM EST July 25, 2008

Is this crazy result is just restricted to Kansas? Nope, many states have followed this decision. For example, in L.M.E. v. A.R.S., 261 Mich. App. 273 (2004), the Michigan Court of Appeals reached the exact same result, holding a minor responsible for child support, even though “the child was conceived as a result of [the mother’s] criminal action in having sexual relations with respondent when he was a fourteen-year-old boy.” The mother was six years older than the statutory rape victim. She was also married, and the woman’s husband thought the kid was his own for more than a decade, until they got divorced and a paternity test showed that the kid belonged to someone else. And then, out of the blue, the statutory rape victim was socked with a child support orderhttp://www.halfsigma.com/2008/04/punishing-the-v.html (http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/04/punishing-the-v.html) Viewed at 2:07 AM EST July 25, 2008

Asguard
07-25-08, 01:05 AM
sorry i left off the vital end of my sentance for some reason.

i ment to say "what about a gay guy who is raped by a women, even if aroused to the point of ejaculation are you really trying to say that he wasnt raped"

as for the percentages i have no idea, every time i search i find different statistics because this area is so under reported

acording to the The National Crime and Safety Survey of 2002 the figures were 0.1 percent of men and 0.4 percent of women over the age of 18 reported being raped but as i said acurate statistics are dam near impossable to find

the other artical makes no sence how can 1 in 6 children become 1 in 8 people across there whole life time, you would have to have negitive rape, those figures have to be just adults otherwise this doesnt make sence


It is estimated that one in four women and one in eight men experience sexual assault during their lifetime, though many instances of sexual assault are never reported. It is also estimated that one in three women and one in six men experienced sexual assault in their childhood [summary estimates of figures from Women’s Health Statewide, South Australia].

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:xGfDqaP57YoJ:www.ranzcog.edu.au/publications/sam/FactSheet-MRTAWHESA.pdf+medical+guidelines+for+treatments+of +sexual+assaults&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au

Asguard
07-25-08, 01:22 AM
here is an interesting question, has a rapist ever won custody of the product of that rape? if not why dont these fathers aplie for sole custody and then put the kid up for adoption if they chose?

Asguard
07-25-08, 01:33 AM
i dont know if these have already been posted or are real cases and i cant be bothered tracking them down but while searching for the answer to my above question i found this:


1)A 14 year old boy in Kentucky, raped by his 27 year old babysitter,
was ordered to pay child support and back AFDC to Kentucky, after the
woman filed for support. The Kentucky Supreme Court ruled rhat though
the sexual act was not consensual, the rape did not release the boy from
the legal and moral obligation to support any progeny from the rape.


2) An 18 year old woman in Colorado has sued a 12 year old boy, and his
parents, for chiid support for a baby born to her. The woman, recent
released from prison after serving 9 months for raping the boy, was
awarded $100/mo in child support, and the court ordered the parents of
the boy to reimburse the State for foster care for the child while the
mother was in prison.


3) A 17 year old boy in Wisconsin, raped by his 17 year old baby sitter
when he was 12, was ordered to repay the State $16,000 in AFDC, and 17%
of his wages to the woman, now 20 years old, in child support. This
court also ruled that the circumstance of rape does not remove the boy's
responsibility to pay child support.
Paternit of JLH, 149 Wis 2d 349 441 NW 2d 273 (1989)


4)A 12 year old Kansas boy has been ordered to pay child support to his
18 year old babysitter, who gave birth after she raped him.
Hermessman v Sayer, Kansas Supreme Court 1995


5) In the case of Schierenbeck v Minor 148 Colorado 582 367 P 2nd 333
1961: a 12 year old boy was ordered to pay child support to his 17 year
old babysitter who gave birth after she raped him.


6)From the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Feb 15, 1995: A 13 year old Missouri
boy has been ordered to pay child support to an 18 year old Illinois
woman. The woman raped the boy when he was 11. She served 2 years in
prison. The courts ruled rape did absolve the boy of his responsibility
to support his child.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.child-support/browse_thread/thread/5cb780ecc8f60e9e/d26547b0def24821?hl=en&lnk=st&q=12+year+old+boy+ordered+to+pay+child+support#d26 547b0def24821

i really liked *sarcastic* the one where the state ordered the rape victom to pay the state for looking after the product of that rape because the rapist was in prision. Really encorages victoms to come forward doesnt it

Randwolf
07-25-08, 01:34 AM
"Bizarre Case Has Woman Who Raped Teen Fighting Him for Child Custody"

Video here: http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=127353

angrybellsprout
07-25-08, 10:25 AM
as i stated before its estimated that 1 in 8 men will or have been raped at some time in there life as compared to 1 in 4 women

I'd really love you to prove that 1 in 4 women are raped.

visceral_instinct
07-25-08, 12:35 PM
Medicine Woman and Madanthonywayne:

While yes it does sound far fetched, it is entirely possible for a woman to rape a man by legal definition and dictionary definition. To think otherwise is to be plain unimaginative, sexist, and (well let's just say it) stupid. I don't believe either of you are stupid, so i guess you must not be trying to use your imagination wise or are you are very sexist.

Basically anything a man can do to rape woman, a woman can turn around on a man. Even struggle is an option as the hormonal difference between Flight, Fight, or F--k are nonexistant. Men often become arroused during struggles. Also honestly arrousal does not mean a man wants to have sex with that particular woman. Just becuase it is hard does not mean men have to use it, or even want to.

I do agree with the rest of your post, but this? I don't know about everyone else, but adrenaline does not make me horny.

TW Scott
07-26-08, 11:20 PM
I do agree with the rest of your post, but this? I don't know about everyone else, but adrenaline does not make me horny.

Adrenaline is produced while you are aroused by any condition, actually. And truth be told adrenalin doesn't make you feel anything, what you feel can trigger adrenalin releases.

TW Scott
07-26-08, 11:32 PM
here is an interesting question, has a rapist ever won custody of the product of that rape? if not why dont these fathers aplie for sole custody and then put the kid up for adoption if they chose?

Actually if our court systems were fair and just, full and sole custody would automatically be granted to the raped parent. The rapist would be stripped of all parental rights to a child born of a rape, but would be responsible for child support. In no way should a rapist be allowed to collect child support as that would be profiting from a crime.

To all you judges saying that that isn;t in the best interest of the child, grow up. if that child is left in the home of a rapist, obviously you were not too interested in the child's welfare. If the child is in the foster care system just treat it as parent unknown. Billing a rape victim for childsupport of a child created of rape is much like shooting someone, letting the wound almost heal and opening it every month just for giggles.

madanthonywayne
07-27-08, 12:53 AM
I don't know about everyone else, but adrenaline does not make me horny.
Really? Maybe you just haven't had a good enough adrenaline rush yet. That effect is quite well known and real.

It makes sense, too. From an evolutionary perspective. In times of danger, we need higher fertility to repopulate once the danger passes.

Asguard
07-27-08, 03:09 AM
i dont think people quite realise that there is another option from fight or flight that adreniline causes and thats freeze. its something i have experianced when i witnessed a motorcycle acident a while ago. you litterally cant move, i wanted to go and help but i couldnt move. now if this occurs during a rape it really doesnt matter how strong or weak the person being raped is, there body itself wont let them do anything

visceral_instinct
07-27-08, 12:22 PM
Really? Maybe you just haven't had a good enough adrenaline rush yet. That effect is quite well known and real.



I've had a pretty immense adrenaline rush form downhill, and yes I did get horny a while afterwards, but I assumed that was because you produce some sex hormone from your adrenal glands, not the actual adrenaline though....? Correct me if I'm talking crap...

visceral_instinct
07-27-08, 05:18 PM
^^?

Asguard
07-27-08, 07:39 PM
i would guess its the increase in nerotransmitters especially dopamine

lepustimidus
07-27-08, 08:01 PM
mad:


In times of danger,


In time of danger, you'll be thinking of working to survive the danger, not reproduce. If a sabre tooth tiger is chasing you, you aren't going to stop off for a quick mating.

visceral_instinct
07-28-08, 06:37 AM
i would guess its the increase in nerotransmitters especially dopamine

but don't you also produce some sex hormone from the zona reticularis?

visceral_instinct
07-28-08, 06:38 AM
and who the FUCK voted yes??! O_O :X

Asguard
07-28-08, 08:00 AM
probably, i dont actually know what that is and i dont have time right this second to look it up. however sexual releace ect are also related specifically to the brain itself and the pituatary glands. for instance the euphoric feeling you experiance with orgasium i belive is caused by a spike in dopamine (though i surpose it could be a spike in morphine as well)

Asguard
07-28-08, 08:01 AM
oh and if you click on the numbers you see its Medicin women *shrugs*

visceral_instinct
07-28-08, 04:58 PM
MW thinks that a raped man should be forced to pay for the offspring he did not choose to father??!!

Oh, I just actually bothered to read the whole thread and saw this


M*W: I voted "yes," because it's downright impossible for a woman to rape a man. Women seduce men, but women don't rape them. Men don't usually complain of rape nor do they consider it abuse. They may not like the fact that they have been overcome (no pun intended) by a woman's wiles, but they were plain just weak.

and what's her thoughts on the guy who was raped IN HIS SLEEP exactly? or the one who was forced at knifepoint to have sex with a woman???!!! fuck's sake. :mad:

Orleander
07-28-08, 07:22 PM
can a woman rape a man by herself or would she have to have an accomplice? And I think if you held a gun on a man, he isn't going to get an erection or ejaculate.

Asguard
07-28-08, 07:34 PM
orleander what makes you think its impossable for a women to rape by herself?

she can point a gun at someone and force them to have sex with her
she could spike a guy (or girls) drink with something like medaz or GHB
she could spike there drink with just achole and rape them
she could be a westler and do it by pure strength
or she could seduce a 13 year old and rape them

whatever a man can do a women could do just the same

Oh and about the erection the body responds wether you want it to or not, if a gay guy gives a guy a blowjob he will get hard even if the idea discusts him. The same if a women ate out a women and she only is atracted to men. the body responces arnt all under compleate mental control, you cant stop yourself breathing for long before your body forces yourself to take a breath

its hard to prove EXCEPT if your willing to rape someone but it happens

Orleander
07-28-08, 07:41 PM
orleander what makes you think its impossable for a women to rape by herself?

she can point a gun at someone and force them to have sex with her (and the whole time the bigger stronger man won't get the gun away from her while he is on top of her?)
she could spike a guy (or girls) drink with something like medaz or GHB
she could spike there drink with just achole and rape them (he would be passed out. A man can rape a woman that way, but you will have to prove to me that a man will get an erection and ejaculate while unconscious due to GHB)
she could be a westler and do it by pure strength (LMFAO!!!)
or she could seduce a 13 year old and rape them (that isn't a man)

whatever a man can do a women could do just the same

Oh and about the erection the body responds wether you want it to or not, if a gay guy gives a guy a blowjob he will get hard even if the idea discusts him. The same if a women ate out a women and she only is atracted to men. the body responces arnt all under compleate mental control, you cant stop yourself breathing for long before your body forces yourself to take a breath

its hard to prove EXCEPT if your willing to rape someone but it happens

I can see an man getting an erection he can't control. Ejaculating? I don't think so.

madanthonywayne
07-28-08, 08:42 PM
I can see an man getting an erection he can't control. Ejaculating? I don't think so.
Ejaculation follows an erection like night follows day.

Orleander
07-28-08, 08:44 PM
Ejaculation follows an erection like night follows day.

During sex, yes. During rape, I doubt it.

Pronatalist
07-28-08, 11:07 PM
Actually, the father should be able to take his child away from that irresponsible mother.

TW Scott
07-29-08, 12:52 AM
During sex, yes. During rape, I doubt it.

Erection and Ejaculation are purely mechanical. And trust me men have very little control if at all.

CutsieMarie89
07-29-08, 01:10 AM
can a woman rape a man by herself or would she have to have an accomplice? And I think if you held a gun on a man, he isn't going to get an erection or ejaculate.

What if she simply just tied him up? Or she does happen to be stronger than him? I can hold some men down.

Asguard
07-29-08, 02:44 AM
cohersion works to and blackmail work as well i would assume.

from sleep with me or i will lie to your wife and tell her you did, right up to i have kidnaped your child and if you dont i will kill them. Sexual sadists come in both genders

angrybellsprout
08-02-08, 06:27 PM
I don't think that too many of the 100-120 lbs guys that I know could do much to fend off a 150+ lbs girl.

Eidolan
08-02-08, 06:41 PM
I do not think that the man should have to pay child support, but I would not be surprised if the courts here made him anyway. They would say something along the lines of "the child's good takes precedence over the man's situation".

A man would have very little control over ejaculation even if he was being raped. He would probably be drunk and/or drugged and not even really know what is going on.

S.A.M.
08-02-08, 06:54 PM
If a man is raped by a woman and she gets pregnant and wants to keep the child, but he does not, who is supported by law?

Asguard
08-02-08, 06:56 PM
sam acording to the infomation i have found in the US she is. I found way to many cases of statitory rape especially where the child has been forced to pay child surport and even one case where the state expected a 14 year old (i think, the case is in this thread somewhere) to compensate the state for caring for the child while the mother was inprisioned for her crime

S.A.M.
08-02-08, 07:04 PM
That is not right.

Asguard
08-02-08, 07:10 PM
i agree but i dont know the answer or even if the same thing woud occure here. Family law is a compleatly seperate set of legislation to the crimes act and only works on whats in the best interest of the child rather punishing offenders

i could quite easerly see a civil court awarding damages for rape from the mother and then the mother turning around and getting it all back in child surport from the family court

TW Scott
08-02-08, 08:56 PM
Treu, family court does place the welfare of the child above everything in this case. however it is simply a manner of then the father countersuing in civil court under some of the newer laws that do not allow an offender to profit from their crime. If the rapist has been convicted i could see civil court setting aside the probate court child support order or making an injunction against the rapist getting the money at all. As for the state collecting from a 14 year old boy, a smart lawyer would would countersue the state and spread the story all over the media. The bad press alone would guarantee any judge that takes the case would not dare rule against public opinion.