Co-habitation or otherwise known as Common law relationships I believe are going to be the wave of this generation. The traditional marriage that we are used to is and should be in terminal decline. Marriage is becoming as outdated as concupiscence (which was a factor in Marriage). Marriage is highly un-representative of the modern day and age with the
Hi-tech revolution.
Traditional marriage is repressive mentally and especially on the individual. The ideals of marriage can be traced back to the Sumerian culture in Mesopotamia. But the “modern” Judeo-Christian marriage can trace it’s the time of Moses. (This in my opinion makes it dated). Traditionalists are bent on keeping the idea of marriage alive. But the 20th century has proven that many “ideas” of the past do not fit in with a progressive society.
In the beginning of the 20th century marriage was seen as a way to make women subservient to males. Women’s rights didn’t exist at the 1900 date, and most peoples of the world lived in abject poverty. By today’s time 103 years later we have women’s rights, (which the same traditionalists attacked), Female sexual subservience ended with the advent of birth control, and the sexual and intellectual liberation of the 60’s and 70’s.
All this is the progressive movements of the west have accomplished. Western or Euro centrism has infected many people’s way of looking at the rest of the world (look at the bias’ we see in class). The idea of marriage is no different; some of us say that the “east’s” customs are repressive and not free. But Marriage is the same, repressive and moralist view on the world that has proven to be outdated.
Co-habitation is the new way at looking at the loving relationship. For some reason weaker willed people seem to need a reminder that they are in love with a ring on there finger. They seem to believe that a piece of paper is love? Where is the logic? Marriage lacks logic; it is a moralist view on love.
We live in a society where we see a liberalization of the individual. Marriage has been used as a club mentality that you can’t join. Who can’t? Homosexuals (except for Canada, Netherlands, and Belgium), Interracial marriages are shunned upon, and in many places in the world true love. Marriages have been for many peoples of the world been a way up. Not love but to marry up and to get a husband, or wife. Is that what is right? Another reason in my humble opinion why marriage is used as a tool of repression.
In a common law relationship one can choose to live with someone like a married couple would. They can still have children, they can still love. All it is is the rejection of the outdated and repressive regime that is marriage. Marriage is scared into people’s especially the Christian psyche.
I find it ridiculous that if one is not married but in love they still cannot have sexual intercourse. The old Judeo-Christian ethics have been revised to the point where we have become “selective” in what we see is a sin or not. Revisionism of the bible and history is common, to suit our needs. Love should not be condition especially by society. They have no right to impose there mores, and values on the individual, and Visa Versa. Marriage in my opinion is a sacrament that is to be seriously reconsidered.
Marriage has been used for blackmail, intellectual repression, physical abuse, mental abuse, et all. With a Common law relationship one would feel un-inhibited to leave this type of male/female. With a Divorce the difficulties of separating or divorce multiply significantly. A messy court battle and bitterness and resentment only grow. With common law at least you don’t have to spill your guts to the judge and the world to explain why you separated. It should be a respectful and even parting of ways. Marriage doesn’t afford that luxury on the individual.


this is my opinion paper to be handed in, love to hear your responses.

You seem to more at war with what the institution of marriage has been turned into by the ever changing face of society and not with what marriage was actually intended for. You make good points but you also fail to include the pros with the cons into the paper...though you maybe exused since this paper reflects your personal, and may i add strong opinion, on the subject. However, to make it a more well rounded paper you should also include why marriage survives if it is such a flawed concept that is in practice today.

Good work besides the somewhat little shortcomings.

Originally posted by nico
The traditional marriage that we are used to is and should be in terminal decline. Marriage is becoming as outdated as concupiscence (which was a factor in Marriage). Marriage is highly un-representative of the modern day and age with the
Hi-tech revolution.


In my opinion, marriage is about love, nothing else (such as doing it for the children, economical reasons, status, etc). And now more than ever, we should take time for our feelings.


Originally posted by nico
Traditional marriage is repressive mentally and especially on the individual.


Why do you think so? I've never been married, but I cant imagine one feeling bad because of the marriage itself if the relationship is good.


Originally posted by nico
Co-habitation is the new way at looking at the loving relationship. For some reason weaker willed people seem to need a reminder that they are in love with a ring on there finger. They seem to believe that a piece of paper is love? Where is the logic? Marriage lacks logic; it is a moralist view on love.


Marriage for me is not a contract, it's a beautiful way to show your partner how much you love him/her. It shouldn't be something you do because it's a tradition in the family, but because you feel like it. I'd wear the ring with pride.


Originally posted by nico
We live in a society where we see a liberalization of the individual. Marriage has been used as a club mentality that you can’t join. Who can’t? Homosexuals (except for Canada, Netherlands, and Belgium), Interracial marriages are shunned upon, and in many places in the world true love. Marriages have been for many peoples of the world been a way up. Not love but to marry up and to get a husband, or wife. Is that what is right? Another reason in my humble opinion why marriage is used as a tool of repression.

I believe everyone should be able to marry. I mean, their happiness doesn't harm me in any way. No matter sex, race or religion everyone should be allowed to marry.

To comment the rest (without copypasting too much) I agree with you. I also believe that its proposterous that you can't have sexual intercourse before marriage, but people live differently. I have no right to tell parents how to raise their children, you know.
The only reason to marry is by that of love, although it has been (and still is) used to control.

And I agree with much of what sargendlard said. Good luck with the paper!

I respect ppl who marry, that's great. But I just think it is backwards and most likely going to end up in a divorce. Sure when we recently marry divorce is not in the cards, but obviously once the 7 year itch has come the marriage is destined to fail for many couples. If common law realtions were more common the family unit would be so stressed to "try to keep it together". Then women who are abused are less likely to leave a realtionship with a man if they are married, and especially with kids. Marriage corrupts the minds of many males, and some females into a power struggle, why? B.c they know it's hardest to leave someone who is married than otherwise.

People get the false notion that they are obligated to stick with their partner even when they come to loath him/her. This causes no small amount of suffering.

Actually, an abolishment of marriage wouldn't change the abusive situations very much. There are plenty of unmarried couples where the man is beating the woman and she doesn't leave. It's not so much an issue of marriage, but low self-esteem, with a dash of Stockholm Syndrome.

Wow, what's the Stockholm Syndrome? :)

Nico you seem to ignore the many succesful cases of marriage and you seem to focus only on the situations of the nations where the divorce rates are high and notorious. I do agree that marriage can be harmful to some individuals but many find themselves in a better social situation and better life stance when they are married. Many still marry today because they want to bond with their significant other in society's terms and declare themself taken. Marriage isn't as dubious and backwards as you think and again i say that you are only focusing on the negative aspects of it. You do strike on good points though. Marriage, as i see it, has turned into a joke these days.

nico
some good points
maybe you should read what you have written in the post and try and see if you think it describes the way you think precisely
i suspect you have slightly glossed a couple of issues that make the paper sound a little anti in a genral theme
but that i suspect is because you were typing as fast as possible to get your current thought out and then missed a slightly more elaborate explanation of what you realy think on a specific point or two.

maybe you could also include the concept of why it is called a marriage LIcENCE
a licence to do what?
would be a good question

good luck
groove on :)

License
\Li"cense\ (l[imac]"sens), n. [Written also licence.] [F. licence, L. licentia, fr. licere to be permitted, prob. orig.,
to be left free to one; akin to linquere to leave. See Loan, and cf. Illicit, Leisure.]
1. Authority or liberty given to do or forbear any act;
especially, a formal permission from the proper authorities to perform certain acts or to carry on a certain business,

which without such permission would be illegal;

a grant of permission; as, a license to preach, to practice medicine, to sell gunpowder or intoxicating liquors

dictionary.com

Is the reason why divorce is so high, because marriage is "outdated" or is it that Americans generally just suck at interpersonal relationships?

I see your hatred towards marriage just a symptom to an underlying societal communication problem.

For some reason weaker willed people seem to need a reminder that they are in love with a ring on there finger. They seem to believe that a piece of paper is love?
Phrases like this are a little presumptuous, don't you think? What's your evidence as to the state of mind/mental capacity/motivation of other people?

Xenu:
Is the reason why divorce is so high, because marriage is "outdated" or is it that Americans generally just suck at interpersonal relationships?

Well, they have shrinky-dinkys like you to loot their bank accounts and drug them stupid as a solution. :)

I see your hatred towards marriage just a symptom to an underlying societal communication problem.

Hatred? Talk about communication problems, I wasn't aware that simply expressing aversion to something meant that one "hated" it.

orange:
A person is, for whatever reason, forced to rely on a person who is, let us say 'unsavoury'. The unsavoury person treats the other quite nastily, but occasionally shows kindness...
Instead of hating the person who maltreats them, they bond with that person. Here:
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/stockholm.html

Now, to Nico:

Nice paper. You come off as a bit overly judgemental, but that's fine as long as your argument is sound.

Marriage, historically, is simply a commercial transaction in which a bride was literally bought. You might work that in there to show that associating "love" with such a transaction is irrational.

MacZ
why you ask?
because religouse nutters are allowed to preach to children
and then when the child becomes legal age they seek some form of stability in thier lives
and the legal contract/licence
is said to offer that in one easy signature
that is what is reinforced through media and related preaching from extreemists

and then the newly wed couple have sex for the first time and it all starts to fall apart
OR if they are realy lucky they have children screw thier childrens heads up then get divorced or stay in a love-less state of emotionaly-void co-habitation

can you blame a person for seeking comfort through this
i dont think so since it is at the later part of all the brain washing that has been dealt out by that stage

where is the evedence?
the majority of the population regard themselfs as religouse people
yet
at least 50% of all marriages are divorced
that is your evidence that most of those doing the preaching
regardless of religouse or ethnic associations is incorrect in thier
methods and techniques
aside from the theory

otherwise the divorce rate would equate directly to the religouse affiliation rate-those who believed in god would not get divorced and those who did not would represent the divorce figures exclusively
simple logic
aside from the fact that in the days of when people claim the bible was written men would have several wives

its called selective perception
in an effort to build the self ego and gain power through preaching alternative methods to those who are in developmentally unstable times
and then the veil of arrogance and ignorance comes down and they call it a religion and all start building thier alters to thier own
importance and to seek material justification of thier perception
being ego self serving-ego centric reinforcement

marriage is just the same
its nieve and absurd to think that just any man and or women can be pushed together and develop love in the sence of a life long commitment
that is what the match makers were skilled at in days of old
an art passed on like an aprenticeship taking more than 10 years to study and a life commitment to engage in
funny how some people think they can judge a person by thier job or clothes
these days its all based on having a good job and the same brand of cereal/church group

nico
if you look at any stats of religouse marriage rates
you will need to include thier previouse marriage and number of
sexual partners before they put on thier
shroud of ignorance safety blanket
(religouse affiliation/creed/church)

good luck
go for the A+
and as Xev noted you must offer both sides for true scientific
evaluation

groove on

Marriage?

Marriage equals You Get To Pass On Your Genetic Material.

Sorry but that just about obliterates any protest against marriage.

Zero
ummm

i think you need to study society a bit more
unless you are just starting a long-winded joke

when the 50% of marriages that get divorced
actualy get disolved
do the children just automaticly die
or do the parents kill them or something
im confused
what type of society do you live in?
:confused:

Originally posted by Zero
Marriage?

Marriage equals You Get To Pass On Your Genetic Material.

Sorry but that just about obliterates any protest against
marriage.

You can do that without being married tho, so it really doesnt.

why do these preachers, who tell everyone what is right and wrong, molest little choir boys?


this world is shit.

plasticwingsmelting
good question
maybe you should start a new thread about it
see where it goes

Make Love, not Marriage!

Marriage equals You Get To Pass On Your Genetic Material.

Sorry but that just about obliterates any protest against marriage.

Sex not marriage, there is a difference.

RoD

and as Xev noted you must offer both sides for true scientific
evaluation

Well it is not supposed to be un-bias it's supposed to be about my bias on marriage.

I believe that people who marry are fine, go ahead. I just think that you are illogical and stupid. Marriage was "invented" when the human life span was little over 30 years old. Were pedophilia was ok, and ppl worked on farms. Now we live in a world (western) who believes in the freedom of the individual, but the fanatic right. What I seem to have problems with marriage is that they are fake, to a large extent. Now some marriages last for a long time, but the question is why? What is the percentage of marriages that lived till one member died, and why? What I see is that some of those marriages were true loves, but many I believe were only existant b.c the parties were forced, or the female's economic, or life was at risk.

I think what zero was aluding to is the fact that there is not much of a choice nowadays.

I am married. Why? Because it is so ingrained with most households that it is much easier to just get married than not. My wife wanted to of course plus the parents and all that. I could of cared less personally. I had already made my commitment to her. We got married in a rose garden and it was pretty and all that. It was actually fun. We did not treat it as a religious ceremony.

Anyway, yes it is dated in a religious sense...but you do not have to do it that way. Just make it a celebration with your family and friends...

I agree with a lot of your points Nico! A lot depends on one's veiwpoint. I was taught that the Eastern religions oppress women though I now see things very differently. This shit is taught in schools so what chance do people have to find out truths what is taught has never been looked at objectively?! I would say marriage is outdated.

Because it is so ingrained with most households that it is much easier to just get married than not.

How so? All it is, is a stupid ring and a piece of paper? If anything it makes co-habiting with another much worse, by risking a messy divorce, and possible damage to children mentally. Also usually the female is economicly threatened by marriage.

Just make it a celebration with your family and friends...

SO that is the justification of a monogamous relationship with someone for the rest of your life to have a big party?

nico
ok
no prob
the divorce rates alone suggest that on an equal value to investment marriage is not worth the risk

but the societal presures are very unfair by the amount of harrasment that children recieve from people who suggest their parents should be married and that they are missing out on something because of it.
that is another form of pedophilia
pedophilia is the name for a legal adult male having sex with a female who is not of legal age
the law is very unballanced
adult women can have sex with a male teenager and not be arrested for pedophilia
its a huge subject that is best left out of the mix becuase the reality is soo huge and is often miss represented by
miss conceptions and hearsay of law and practice
look at arranged marriages in other countrys where the female is under legal adult age
that makes the husband a pedophile or statutory rapist
depending on his age

romeo and juliet
if romeo had sex with juliet then that makes him a pedophile
or a statutory rapist
yet they are percieved as romantics and a form of hightened achivement for the ideals they suggest they had
yet romeo would be considered a stalker pedophile sex offender in todays society

go figure
and the law would not change if they got married
the male would be raping his wife if she was under legal adult age
its all completely skrewy

logic is not love
marriage can be logical for finacial and societal gain
and is also logical to avoid persecution of your children
by the church goers and other religouse nutters who
are child abusers

another point
men are most at risk of loosing finacialy in a divorce
not the female
based on the most common financial situation
logic = no pre nup = person with most money will loose the most

be carefull how you apply the word logic

good luck on your paper

groove on :)

marriage relates to the representation of family constructs
the family should be respected regardless of marriage
love should come before the commitment for children
marriage is often an attempt to verify emotions and commitment
if people made the point of being in love with someone before they have children or get married then marriage would
have more value towards ehtics and morals that support the community
preaching to children that they should not have sex before marriage only makes them want to get married just to have sex
nature of development should be encouraged and informed
not preached
allowing people to learn and grow in a supported environment
not a cage constructed from what should not be done
when nature itself is trying to teach a lsson that few seem to grasp

who are we to say what others should or should not do when it is not harming another person
preaching from a point of sexual disfunction is common and causes many more issues
the road to learning is one of experience
to learn constructively from experience is to not be
vilafied or subjegated by others desires expressed from aversion issues

peace light truth love
the path to that we hold above

SO that is the justification of a monogamous relationship with someone for the rest of your life to have a big party?

"Celebration"....."monogamy".....

Why do these two words not belong together?

ripleofdeath:
adult women can have sex with a male teenager and not be arrested for pedophilia

As long as he's of consenting age, yes. Very few states in the US discriminate between male adult/female teen and female adult/male teen.
Do some research before you shoot your ignorent, sexist little mouth off.

Marriage is an excellent way to demonstrate two people's comprehension of the importance of permanence in a relationship intended to rear children. I think this is the bulk of its function. I don't really understand marriage between two people who don't have kids. Why does the state need to sanction your love? Man that sounded like a bad geek parody of a motown song or something "oh the state will sanction our love now baby". Argh.

Xev
quote
As long as he's of consenting age, yes. Very few states in the US discriminate between male adult/female teen and female adult/male teen
Do some research before you shoot your ignorent, sexist little mouth off
---

as long as the youngest person in the couple is of consenting age then there is no offence of the law

you say there are some states that discriminate
do you know which states they are?
is it a majority or minority
have you gained some info on the issue
i do not have any stats on it
aside from the fact that the law is slowly being corrected in some countrys
maybe the topic is best left to the politics thread

groove on all :)

How so? All it is, is a stupid ring and a piece of paper? If anything it makes co-habiting with another much worse, by risking a messy divorce, and possible damage to children mentally. Also usually the female is economicly threatened by marriage.
It is easier because people in general want to do it. If your girlfriend and parents and everyone you know were expecting and hoping you to do it...don't you think it would be easier than fighting them?
Usually the female isn't the one threatened economically.

SO that is the justification of a monogamous relationship with someone for the rest of your life to have a big party?
Of course not. Don't you realize that the commitment to stay with this person must come well before this? If you do not intend to stay with this person then don't get married. Do you have a problem with commitment or parties or something?

Marriage is a product of the #1 bullshit factory ever created by humanity - RELIGION.

Oh, and just to make all you youngins groan: I used to simply despise the institution and have cited analagies of all the arguments I've seen here trashing it as an institution. I mean, over the years OMG I have ranted and ranted about how marriage sucks ass.

Then I knocked a chick up, figured "well, she's a sweetie and I don't want to diss her, so we'll live together" which changed to "hell I guess we're having kids so I'll marry her and just see how it goes"... which ended up in the most ironic transition (to me at least) of all to "oh man I really really dig being married to this chick, I can't believe how lucky I am to have such a beautiful wife and kiddos".

Hehe.. it could happen to you!

(at least it did to me)

If your girlfriend and parents and everyone you know were expecting and hoping you to do it...don't you think it would be easier than fighting them?


Don't u have balls? Jesus man, shit that is the attitude that so many ppl take it pisses me off. If they want it so badly then get married themselves. If they are divorced and have the gaul to actually ask you that question then slap them in the face. Fight who anyways, it's not there life. YOu are going to potentially ruin your life because some ignorants want u to? :rolleyes:

Usually the female isn't the one threatened economically

In a divorce no, in the marriage yes.

Of course not. Don't you realize that the commitment to stay with this person must come well before this?

So Marriage is the only way to show that person you love them? Why not respect each other and understand one anothers point of view? Marriage destroys this by making the individuals as a individual. That's wrong in any sense.

Originally posted by sargentlard
Nico you seem to ignore the many succesful cases of marriage and you seem to focus only on the situations of the nations where the divorce rates are high and notorious. I do agree that marriage can be harmful to some individuals but many find themselves in a better social situation and better life stance when they are married. Many still marry today because they want to bond with their significant other in society's terms and declare themself taken. Marriage isn't as dubious and backwards as you think and again i say that you are only focusing on the negative aspects of it. You do strike on good points though. Marriage, as i see it, has turned into a joke these days.

everything these days can be used for negative reasons and/or positive.

i think though to eliminate marriage can be harmful to many women in the long run or harmful to a relationship. it's probably because most women, maybe more so than men cling desperately to the institution of marriage. perhaps only where there are people involved in that relationship who have been raised to believe marriage is a way of life.
i mean you could rant and rave about marriage but as wesmorris says, it could happen to you that your ideas change.

think though to eliminate marriage can be harmful to many women in the long run or harmful to a relationship. it's probably because most women, maybe more so than men cling desperately to the institution of marriage

Marriage is used that way to make women have to want and need marriage. The Media bias, the religious bias, the sexual repression many females endure. The fact that males still make .20 cents more than females just underscores why marriage is "needed" by women. They really don't a choice, they are subveriant to males. There are a est. 4 million women in the US who are battered by thier other. Many (if not vast majority)of those are in marriage. Men don;t have to "cling" to marriage because they don't usually don;t want to take care of the kids, they are finically better off anyways. Marriage= repression.

Don't u have balls? Jesus man, shit that is the attitude that so many ppl take it pisses me off. If they want it so badly then get married themselves. If they are divorced and have the gaul to actually ask you that question then slap them in the face. Fight who anyways, it's not there life. YOu are going to potentially ruin your life because some ignorants want u to?
2 of em. Fact is, I don't think marriage is the great evil like you apparently do. It was a fun way to get together family and display our committment to one another. I guess this might somehow ruin my life now? :rolleyes:

So Marriage is the only way to show that person you love them? Why not respect each other and understand one anothers point of view? Marriage destroys this by making the individuals as a individual. That's wrong in any sense.
How do you think marriage destroys the ability to repect and understand each other? In my experience it did quite the opposite. We have planned and grown together and our lives are better for it. Together, we can provide a comfortable quality life for our daughter.

I don't care if people get married or not. Sometimes it is definately not the right choice. But to completely dismiss it as harmful and dangerous is ridiculus.

nico
you raise a good point about the represion of women
but i think until only very recently the male could get a women pregnant and then leave the scene wothout being held to task for the financial requirement for the welbeing of the child
so in that situation the marriage was able to contract the male to provide for part of the situation they helped create
as things are going with the law it is good to see now that if a man or hopefully women aswell leave the scene of supporting the child they can be forced to contribute to the cost of providing the finacial needs of the child
the emotional needs are yet to be properly addressed
but there is slow progress and thats better than none

it is my opinion that all people should be able to practice what ever religion they choose to as long as it does not harm or persecute others
marriage is a concept of religouse and or spiritual beliefes
so i think it is more even handed to allow marriage and support those who wish to make a public declaration of commitment to the support of the child rearing environment.

groove on :)

Marriage creates a legal reason for people to stay together, which I think is probably opposite to human nature.

Except for the legal reasons then, it just doesn't make sense.

Does a family get tax breaks if they're married?

If so, it seems to me that marriage is a gambling game. If you think you really won't get tired of being around each other, you can gamble for tax breaks. To add some strategy to the game, you both own each other's stuff. If you lose, you have to go through a hellish process of deciding on who really owned what.

On the strategy aspects, you can hide money so when you divorce, you can end up with more than you should have gotten otherwise. You could also trick people into marrying, and then take half of their stuff - oops, you played the game badly, rich old guy!

Personally I think those legal documents you can sign so that each person owns their own things breaks the game and makes it no fun.

Not my sort of game.