When I was a lot younger, my sister once told me to not stand in front of the microwave, because I'd get cancer. Since then I've had an unfounded belief that if I get too close I'll die from some hideous disease in the future. Common sense tells me, "Jack, why would these things be on the market if they were that dangerous?", but I still can't avoid ducking when I walk past.

This is a great shame because when I'm cooking porridge I can't tell if it's boiling over.

Can someone tell me what's going on in microwaves so I can dispell this notion once and for all?

Can someone tell me what's going on in microwaves so I can dispell this notion once and for all?

Well, they don't know! There haven't been any long-term studies done to ascertain any of the ill-effects with microwaves. For all we know at the present, too much exposure to microwaves might change people into homosexuals?!?!?

But living near high-power electric transmission lines (electro-magnetic radiation) seems to cause some health problems ...tho' I can't remember what type or kind. In the old days, people thought radio waves caused problems, too.

I'd say that your best better is to move to the wilderness and live in a cave.

Baron Max

When I was a lot younger, my sister once told me to not stand in front of the microwave, because I'd get cancer. Since then I've had an unfounded belief that if I get too close I'll die from some hideous disease in the future. Common sense tells me, "Jack, why would these things be on the market if they were that dangerous?", but I still can't avoid ducking when I walk past.

This is a great shame because when I'm cooking porridge I can't tell if it's boiling over.

Can someone tell me what's going on in microwaves so I can dispell this notion once and for all?
years back, a son of afriend, who was a chef trainee, said that he would get out of the way when a microwave was on, ashe had heard really bad stuff about it.....At that time i used microwave albiet infrequently

ond day on the Internet i happened to read an article by 'Dr Mercola' about microwaved food. it sounded bloddy terriboe ande ever since i have not had anyting cooked in microwave......if you daaaaare do a simple google of his name + 'm icrowave' and see what you find. tis up to you. you DIDask, right?

Can someone tell me what's going on in microwaves so I can dispell this notion once and for all?
You need to get yourself a microwave leakage detector. If it's leaking, standing right in front of the door would not be healthy. Try Jaycar or Dick Smiths.

For all we know at the present, too much exposure to microwaves might change people into homosexuals?!?!?


LOL!

Duendy: Okay, I'm reading some of this guys stuff.

Can anyone verify it? For some strange reason I'm oddly predispositioned to discard it, because it came from Duendy, and smells like a bit of a conspiracy theory...

Thanks Kazakhan, I'll have a look into them.

Keep the comments coming people. Feel free to venture into what it does to food as well, I don't think I mentioned that in my original post.

see this isnwhat you do.......ie., 'you' who see 'conspiracy theories' all over. the termsact as a wall for you LOOKING....get over it. trust your exploring self go where it whither.....!

Thanks Kazakhan, I'll have a look into them.
It may be a little paranoid but you are better off not standing in front of them unless you're sure it's not leaking. I haven't got a detector myself and I keep forgetting to tell my wife to stop standing in front of the microwave :eek: :p

I found what duendy was talking about (http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards.htm) and that seems pretty scary if true mainly as the only use for our microwave has been for heating my daughters bottles over the last few years, thankfully that's about to stop and the microwave can be turfed...

Yes, that's what I read too. I just don't trust Duendy. Like, wtf does this even say:

see this isnwhat you do.......ie., 'you' who see 'conspiracy theories' all over. the termsact as a wall for you LOOKING....get over it. trust your exploring self go where it whither.....!

That Dr Mercola guy has some very spurious information on his web site. Not least about microwaves from ovens being different from microwaves from the sun. Horse puckey, microwaves are microwaves, period.

Also, about Russia banning microwaves in 1976. True, but the ban has since been lifted. Why? Is it that the klystron in microwave ovens could have used as a short range transmitter, modified to send a modulated signal, and be used to communicate outside the USSR? Was it poilitcs, and not health, that caused Russia to ban them?

Other people who say microwaved food is bad for you, come up with pseudoscientific bullshit like this; (from http://www.create-your-healthy-home.com/microwave-ovens.htm)

"Vital Energy Fields Devastated: The vital energy field content of all foods tested dropped 60 to 90 percent."

Eh? It's a sentence, but it's PURE BULLSHIT. They put a number on something that doesn't exist.

Also this one;

"Increase in Radioactivity: A “binding effect” between the microwaved food and any atmospheric radioactivity is created, causing a marked increase in the amount of alpha and beta particle saturation in the food."

Eh? Atmospheric emitters bind to microwaved food making it more radioactive? Horse shit. Just how long is microwaved food exposed to the atmosphere? How much radioactive material is there in the atmosphere? Why would it stick to microwaved food? And even if it did, why is it suddenly more of a danger when you ingest it via eating, than breathing?

Common sense easily debunks this stuff.

Yes, that's what I read too. I just don't trust Duendy. Like, wtf does this even say:
oo-k jack50bleedin4 whatever ya name is.,stop trying to get a rise outta me wit the crowd. you are unblieveable. you ask this question. i offer you my reservations, in sincerity. then all you do is discourteously take the fukin piss outta my views, my typing etc....so fuk u...eat microwaVE. GET microwaved. do i look like i give a shit. may have. not now.

and phlo. mr phlo-who-knows-ya-know

let me aks you a question. see if you can get THIS right to. cause yu do seem to know it all dont ya....?

WHo do you think i trust between you and Dr MErcola.................?exactly.

enjoy yer microwaved fast food dude. ask jack over

duendy, mo matter what the evidence, you will always believe the crackpot. Even when they spout horrendous bullshit, you'll swallow the lot and smile afterwards.

I don't know why you prefer lies to truth duendy, something about you being incapable of dealing with the real world, your reliance on psychadelics, and inability to work, I guess.

duendy, mo matter what the evidence, you will always believe the crackpot. Even when they spout horrendous bullshit, you'll swallow the lot and smile afterwards.

me))hummpgh...well dont belive you...crackpot. let me put it thisa wayt. even if you were 'right' i would choose to b wrong. you and other unmentionables are SO obnoxious in your strutting cocksuredness, that that is THE biggest reaso NOT to join your gang. for anyone wit an ounceof senistivity in their soul that is

I don't know why you prefer lies to truth duendy, something about you being incapable of dealing with the real world, your reliance on psychadelics, and inability to work, I guess.
cheeky bitch what do yo know what i do. evewn THAT you 'know' u fuk

I've heard this-and-that but haven't heard about cancer, but there sure is a lot of elecromagnetic radiatian effects if you place a sheet of tin foil in a microwave, or a food content placed inside is surrounded by the same! The most important thing is to keep the seals around the microwave door clean and secure to seal it shut.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has regulated the manufacture of microwave ovens since 1971. On the basis of current knowledge, the FDA believes that ovens that meet the FDA standard and used according to the manufacturer's instructions are safe for use.
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/microwave.html

"All new microwave ovens produced for sale in the United States must meet the Food and Drug Administration/Center for Devices and Radiological Health (FDA/CDRH) performance requirements in Title 21, CFR, Part 1030.10. This requirement states that new ovens may not leak microwave radiation in excess of 1 mW cm–2 at 5 cm....

Some years ago there were concerns about leaking microwave ovens interfering with cardiac pacemakers. These concerns often resulted in hazard postings near the ovens to warn pacemaker wearers. Today, due to the shielded designs of modern pacemakers and ovens, leakage is not considered to be a realistic concern and the postings are no longer used.

Ovens can be damaged in several ways. The use of metal objects inside the oven may result in high-voltage arcing, damaging the enclosure or causing a fire. Interlock connectors or switches may fail in an unsafe condition through abuse of the door, allowing microwave leakage. Finally the oven may be dropped, damaging the door seal, enclosure, switches, or power supply."
http://hps.org/hpspublications/articles/microwaveoven.html

"Radiation leaks
Exposure to high levels of microwave radiation is known to cause health problems including cataracts and burns. Radiation leaks from a microwave oven are possible if the oven door is damaged or doesn't seal properly.

In most cases, the leaks are too small to cause a significant health risk, according to the National Health and Medical Research Council. If your microwave is in good condition and is used according to the manufacturer's instructions, it is safe. However, safety suggestions include: Regularly check the door of your microwave oven for corrosion or damage, and that it fits securely. Never tamper with or inactivate the interlocking devices. These are designed to stop the production of microwaves the moment the latch is released or the door opened. Clean the oven regularly to make sure that burnt food isn't stuck to the interior and door. Don't run the microwave oven when it's empty." http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Microwave_ovens_safety_issues?OpenDocument

"Microwave radiation is odorless and invisible and therefore hard to detect. Microwave oven radiation is present whenever a microwave oven is turned on. The microwave energy causes the water molecules in the food to vibrate rapidly. This rapid vibration produces heat which, in turn, cooks the food. It can also penetrate through living tissue which is why exposure is harmful to our health. Once you turn off the oven, the microwaves disappear but until then, you may be exposing yourself to dangerous levels of radiation leakage. A survey conducted among the Professional Service Associates, a group of microwave repair servicemen, indicated that over 56% of microwave ovens two years or older leaked levels of radiation 10% higher than the safety standards set by the FDA. More often than not, a simple adjustment was all that was needed to stop the leakage. Slamming the oven door, dirt or food particles caught in the door seals and hinges, or basic wear and tear all cause the oven door to slightly seperate from the oven enclosure. Once this happens, invisible, but highly dangerous microwaves leak through the small space and cause irreversible damage and injury to the user."
http://home.cvc.org/microwaves/detecto.htm

Thanks Valich, that seems quite reasonable.

So duendy, got any facts about microwaves, or are you just going to grovel around in your wanton ignorance some more?

Are you going to defend the hideous bullshit that is stated about microwaves? Offer anything credible to the debate? Or just state that you don't like people that debunk your fantasies, and be childish?

So duendy, got any facts about microwaves, or are you just going to grovel around in your wanton ignorance some more?

Are you going to defend the hideous bullshit that is stated about microwaves? Offer anything credible to the debate? Or just state that you don't like people that debunk your fantasies, and be childish?
haha...your askin ME not to be childish?....YOU??

i wonder. you say you have a girlfrind? wife. not really interested in theinfo actually. but i wonder what she'd think about you if she peered over your shoulder whilst yer online and saw some of the snidey side of ya. would she still lurrrrve ya? what do you think? or is she LIKE you?

poor attempt at changing the topic duendy.

Some people, when failing to understand how things that are "wireless" like radio, mobile phones, and microwaves, actually work, assume it must be because of some magical concept, and therefore assume that that magic must be dangerous.

Its like, how do those phones work without wires!! Oh!! it must be magic, cause it travels through the air.
Those "waves" passing through me could damage me in some way!!

Or they equate the term radiation with nuclear radiation, and assume its dangerous.


As far as i'm aware, microwave "radiation" if you can even call it that (normal ovens have "radiation" too), is non ionizing, and therefore, won't cause cancer.

Its the vibrating of the water particles that heats the food - as opposed to actual heat - which is why they often do a shitty job of cooking food - making the texture taste weird, or too soft.

I imagine if you had some of the water particles in your body vibrated very quickly it could cause burns, but then you'd know about it.
I would predict a lot more injuries, burns and deaths have been caused by normal ovens than microwave ovens (per year).

Almost everyone has burnt themselves a number of times on a normal oven(unless you live in some primitive state and have no oven, and are forced to eat worms, twigs, berries, and animal dung).
How many people do you know that have suffered injuries from a microwave - other than from picking up the hot dish too quickly?

almost total mis-understanding on your part,Huwy, as usual....

i hadn't changed no subjewct. i was respnding to OTHERS who have changed subject to ad homs

originally i had simply answered original threader's inquiry about microwave wit my VIEWS. yeah?.....

no, Hwy, i dont fink it's magic etc, you patronizin little git......i am saying this:
learn to understand;
be aware that it is not th first time you get lied to by corporates about possible dangers of technology. think of ASBESTOS supposed protection against fire. well they KNEW well before how angeros it was. dont care if you blieve it or not it's true

as far as microwavd food. so HAVE it. i dont care, nuthin you or your materilist know-it-all-mates will convince me to go back o it. in FACT they have hardened my reserve to NEVER go back to eating it. didn't like shit microwaved before anyhow

Some people, when failing to understand how things that are "wireless" like radio, mobile phones, and microwaves, actually work, assume it must be because of some magical concept, and therefore assume that that magic must be dangerous.

Ah, yes! That's exactly how I viewed it. The thing is, I knew I was been stupid and ignorant, I just needed you guys to dispell it completely for me. Which is done.

Thanks,
Jack

i hadn't changed no subjewct. i was respnding to OTHERS who have changed subject to ad homs

LIAR. You mentioned Mercola. I took issue with some of his lies, and then, rather than being decent, and addressing my points, or defending Mercolas points, you got personal.

You then tried to drag my partner into it, which was just snide.

You are incapable of discussion duendy, you don't have the attention span. You can't stay on topic, and can't remember the chain of events. You are also completely out of touch with reality. You don't work for a living, do you, btw? I've asked you this before, and you keep dodging, coming back with abusive replies, but not actually stating that you DO work. Well?

LIAR. You mentioned Mercola. I took issue with some of his lies, and then, rather than being decent, and addressing my points, or defending Mercolas points, you got personal.

You then tried to drag my partner into it, which was just snide.

You are incapable of discussion duendy, you don't have the attention span. You can't stay on topic, and can't remember the chain of events. You are also completely out of touch with reality. You don't work for a living, do you, btw? I've asked you this before, and you keep dodging, coming back with abusive replies, but not actually stating that you DO work. Well?

Yeah, that's her way of dealing with it. Dodge the issues (ignore) and attempt to change the subject to ANYTHING else.

As to her working, would you hire her? I certainly would NOT. I happen to own a couple of retail businesses and, if she lived in my town, I'd get a restraining order to keep her at least 500 feet away from them. She's a public nuisance and I would not want her disturbing my customers.

LIAR. You mentioned Mercola. I took issue with some of his lies, and then, rather than being decent, and addressing my points, or defending Mercolas points, you got personal.

me((((((((EVERYone's a 'LIAR' to you phlo, who doesn't bow to your dodgy materialistic feelingless worldview.
I didn't offer my view to begin point by point discuss Mercola's views about microwaves. go eat microwaved pizza. go on...

You then tried to drag my partner into it, which was just snide.

me(((((((you drag my personal life into your accusatory posts in an EXTREMELY patronizing way. who the fuk do you think yo are..?? would you speak to me face to face like you do here?

You are incapable of discussion duendy, you don't have the attention span. You can't stay on topic, and can't remember the chain of events. You are also completely out of touch with reality. You don't work for a living, do you, btw? I've asked you this before, and you keep dodging, coming back with abusive replies, but not actually stating that you DO work. Well?
if i was a homeless individual with a State givem Laptop, what the livin FUK has that got to DO wid u???
and as for discussin. or in YOU case cussin. your approach is completely LIMITED. so much so it is bemusing........my intuition of your offerings undermines your bullying reductionism quite adequately ambiguously. tho of course, your antenna, rusty as it is, wouldn't tune into this delicate field

my intuition of your offerings undermines your bullying reductionism quite adequately ambiguously. tho of course, your antenna, rusty as it is, wouldn't tune into this delicate field

You might have a little bit more to worry about than hydrolyzed molecules from the microwave. I'd think you should probably take care of the schizophrenia first.

You might have a little bit more to worry about than hydrolyzed molecules from the microwave. I'd think you should probably take care of the schizophrenia first.
oh heloo zyncod......well its simple. this is how th system you love operates. i am assuming you follow materialistic science church....right? wrong? other?

IF you have and express other views than yo and your blessed scientifical method demands, in its meachical reductive insistence for 'evidence'....IF you show behaviour not sanctioned by your criteria for normalness, ten you start throwing your labels about like accusin mental illness, 'schizophrenia' etc etc. same happens for more and more children if for whatever reason can't wont get on in school which promotes your souless materialistic worldview. trhey get labels thrown at em by people like you, wi so-called phd's etc and get drugged/poisoned, parents threatened. fascism!

so you are part of this. yo have no deep understanding

Priceless! :D

It would be far easier to keep track of conspiracy theories that duendy doesn't subscribe to than the ones that he/she does.<P>

Priceless! :D

It would be far easier to keep track of conspiracy theories that duendy doesn't subscribe to than the ones that he/she does.<P>
no HR...listen to what's being said. dont keep yer right eye so close to the microscope

I'm not buying the idea that microwave radiation won't cause cancer because it is "non-ionizing." It does induce the flow of electrical current in living tissues.

So mental illness is not real, but antennas are?

I believe people should be entitled to (if they agree to) receive care, support, and treatment for any mental illness which can cause them suffering.

Saying that's all bullshit because it doesn't suit you as an individual is really very selfish.

I don't think my country giving lots of money to poor African countries suits me, but i have yet to argue that their poverty is non-existant.

I dare to think of how much that laptop could help someone else, like a poor student, to actually learn something.

I mean really, who do you think is really excluding you?
Is it possible that most people don't actually have an agenda to exclude you duendy, but that you actually exclude yourself?

Again, not trying to be negative, just offering an idea.
PEACE

So mental illness is not real, but antennas are?

I'd have to say, I agree with that statement. I've seen
mental illnesses diagnosed enough times among my
students to know that it's all basically pretend. I've also
used a kit to build a home radio or two, so I know that
antennnas really work.

I'm much more afraid of radioactive particles than I am
simple radiation, So Duendy's theories about Depleted
Uranium interest me more than this Microwave of Doom
Scenario. I mean, radioactive particles that get into your
body can effect your cells for years or months and cause
serious health issues. Where microwaves energy will either
(a) cook you
(b) leave you uncooked

Since I'm not cooked, I don't worry about it much.

EVERYone's a 'LIAR' to you phlo, who doesn't bow to your dodgy materialistic feelingless worldview.

Not true, there are plenty of people who I think tell the truth. Scientists are among them.

I didn't offer my view to begin point by point discuss Mercola's views about microwaves.

Probably because you don't understand what Mercola is saying, you not having a grasp of science. Someone who does know a bit can see when he's got stuff wrong though, and he does say stuff which isn't true. I do't know enough biology to find errors in some of his other claims, but his physics is suspect.

you drag my personal life into your accusatory posts in an EXTREMELY patronizing way.

I've asked you a couple of direct questions duendy, which you dodged. You eventually admitted you had seen a mental health practitioner, after being asked about half a dozen times. I've since asked you if you worked for a living, and again, instead of answering you dodge the question. Do you work for a living? I'm not being patronising, I'm trying to understand you duendy. Maybe you are embarrassed about the answers, which is why you think the question is patronising. As for asking personal questions, I ask them of YOU, and you alone, not your friends, family, or partner.

who the fuk do you think yo are..?? would you speak to me face to face like you do here?

Would you swear at me face to face duendy? I think you would! Would I take issue with the pseudoscience and groundless conspiracy theories you espouse, in a calm, eloquent manner, if you spoke them to me directly? Of course I would.


if i was a homeless individual with a State givem Laptop, what the livin FUK has that got to DO wid u???

Well, as a taxpayer, I might be peeved how the 'State' are spending my money, for one.


and as for discussin. or in YOU case cussin.

Check again duendy, who uses profanity? Er, that would be you!

your approach is completely LIMITED. so much so it is bemusing........my intuition of your offerings undermines your bullying reductionism quite adequately ambiguously. tho of course, your antenna, rusty as it is, wouldn't tune into this delicate field

Another ad hom, and amongst all those words you used, there was no answer to my direct questions, no support for your assertions, no explanation for the problems with Mercola's assertions I raised, in fact, words, but no actual content.

Can you TRY and stick to the topic, duendy? Try and answer some questions? Try and focus on the facts, for once?

So mental illness is not real, but antennas are?

I believe people should be entitled to (if they agree to) receive care, support, and treatment for any mental illness which can cause them suffering.

Saying that's all bullshit because it doesn't suit you as an individual is really very selfish.

I don't think my country giving lots of money to poor African countries suits me, but i have yet to argue that their poverty is non-existant.

I dare to think of how much that laptop could help someone else, like a poor student, to actually learn something.

Huwy Huwy.....after all te words i have spoken to you about tis yet still you haven't abosorbed.....right. so how would YOUlikeit now if i turned shrink and dagnosed you with Non-Absorbtional Disorder (NAD)....don't put it past em...!!...and then i push 'meds' on ya. tis is what is happening.

Listen i am NOT saying that people aren't distrssed, very very down, cant get outta bed, feel suicidal, have visions, etc etc. its this clear Huwy?...............

I am MOT saying that such behaviour is nonexistant. i am SAYINGit is NOT biological disease, and there is no evidence to say it is. SO we cannot go on pretending, and/or believing in this culture that pretends it is. ...All of that shrouds the real necessary reponse wich MUST radically affect how we understand reality, and how we are living as a community

Bewcase manydont question tis institutionalized lieing, more and more so-called diseases are proliferating and even children are getig dragged into tis evil insidious unprecedented scam. it has to be exposed.....if yo wanna talk more on tis, you know te thread specifically about it...........tis is supposed to be about microwves innit?

I'd have to say, I agree with that statement. I've seen
mental illnesses diagnosed enough times among my
students to know that it's all basically pretend.

No offence, but that doesn't make you an authority on the subject. I'm not saying I'm one either, but to say it's pretend is to shut your eyes to a problem that has real enough consequences...


Where microwaves energy will either
(a) cook you
(b) leave you uncooked

Since I'm not cooked, I don't worry about it much.

Good! I'm not too worried about being cooked; and at least I'll know if it happens!

changa, we weren't quite talking about real antenna.

But I agree with your summation of microwaves, they either vibrate the water particles, or they don't.
Hence my prediction that less people are injured/burnt using them than normal ovens.
How many people have died from explosions/gas inhalation from a normal oven, and how many people have died from microwave ovens?
My hypothesis is that microwave ovens are actually safer than normal ovens.

Not true, there are plenty of people who I think tell the truth. Scientists are among them.

mePPPmayBE, but i'm afriad all ofthat has taken you over, and has becomeyour religion. it shows


Probably because you don't understand what Mercola is saying, you not having a grasp of science. Someone who does know a bit can see when he's got stuff wrong though, and he does say stuff which isn't true. I do't know enough biology to find errors in some of his other claims, but his physics is suspect.

mePPPfine. YOU disbelievehim and tuck into yer microwaved pizza. whatever turns ya light on



I've asked you a couple of direct questions duendy, which you dodged. You eventually admitted you had seen a mental health practitioner, after being asked about half a dozen times. I've since asked you if you worked for a living, and again, instead of answering you dodge the question. Do you work for a living? I'm not being patronising, I'm trying to understand you duendy. Maybe you are embarrassed about the answers, which is why you think the question is patronising. As for asking personal questions, I ask them of YOU, and you alone, not your friends, family, or partner.

mePPPPjustgettin to know me huh......hah. what...you tink i was born yeserday dude. you are completely transparent, you really are LOL. right from kick off you haveattempted to find out, NOT to get to know m better but to get some from of shit so as to discredit me wit with your materialistic peers. what did you say? i have dodged your questions....you mean interrogation. you have no tact you really dont kid



Would you swear at me face to face duendy? I think you would! Would I take issue with the pseudoscience and groundless conspiracy theories you espouse, in a calm, eloquent manner, if you spoke them to me directly? Of course I would.

me))))))well how comes yer cant here? do you also have road rage too?




Well, as a taxpayer, I might be peeved how the 'State' are spending my money, for one.

me))))))yet you dont worry your taxes being spent on staged terrorism and teir evil prpetua wars and te whole evil fukin military industrial complex and pharmaceutical propaganda advertizing, etc. Bt you bemoan a po homless person gettin a laptop. tho bet she'd rather have shelter and food....RIGHT??




Check again duendy, who uses profanity? Er, that would be you!

me))))whatyou mean 'fuk'----they are just anglo saxon terms. what you try and do is MUCh more insidious believe me. as i said luv, i can see right thru ya


Another ad hom, and amongst all those words you used, there was no answer to my direct questions, no support for your assertions, no explanation for the problems with Mercola's assertions I raised, in fact, words, but no actual content.

me))let me xplain agin. listentis time. 54jack had asked a simple question about microwaves. i told him my little story, and how i'd read the Doc and gone off mwave cookin for good. i had NOT started a thread saying 'microwaveing is evil'. dig?
it wasn't my idea to aalyze all about it. that is YOUR take/projection of the proceedings. sunk in now?

Can you TRY and stick to the topic, duendy? Try and answer some questions? Try and focus on the facts, for once?
but YOUR facts are dead facts. you live in a corridor with no windows/awareness and openness to others' views

would you push meds on me? and how would you go about doing that duendy?

I mean doctors can't legally push meds on anyone who hasn't like killed a whole load of people. Not in our countries anyway.
When has anyone argued that mental illness is a "disease"?
A disease requires some sort of pathogen doesn't it?
Mental illness would fall more under the category of a condition/syndrome/disorder.

Phlogistician has suggested that your on some kind of disability allowance.
Now i'm not going to make any judgement or criticism if you are, but how can you argue that all sorts of things can go wrong with the body - but none go wrong with the most complex organ of all, the brain?
It does have a mass of about 1.4kg and billions of cells.
It is involved in hormone production.

So how can you receive money from (one of the best welfare systems in the world) people in a society who sympathise with your situation - whatever that is - and yet because it doesn't suit your ridiculous beliefs - completely deny that another group of people can have problems with some aspect of their brain?

That strikes me as being quite cold and demonstrates an inability to empathise with others, not to mention being a bit hypocritical.
The fact is, that while the mental health system has problems and has been used to abuse power in the past, by denying some people of their rights and denying their liberty (I won't deny this) - in most cases it has been shown to help most people, and prevent suicide, and increase the likelyhood that people can return to some kind of quality of life.

I'm not denying your right to be frightened of things that are new and strange, we are all just discussing the details.
I mean, in Australia, companies are still paying out compensation for asbestos cancer victims.

Can I ask a question duendy, do you smoke tobacco?
I've smoked tobacco and marijuana (but not for some years now - personal choice).

would you push meds on me? and how would you go about doing that duendy?

me)))))))ohhhh Huwy.......look. people HVE and AREbeing coercively pushed medication, especially more and more children, who haven't got a leg to stand on. also tose that are LIEDto about 'mental illness' are being 'pushed' drugs.

I mean doctors can't legally push meds on anyone who hasn't like killed a whole load of people. Not in our countries anyway.
When has anyone argued that mental illness is a "disease"?

me)now yer changin the goal posts huh? YOU from beginning claimed it was biological disease.

A disease requires some sort of pathogen doesn't it?
Mental illness would fall more under the category of a condition/syndrome/disorder.

me))))and naive too. WHEN they call whatever 'disorder' this gives them the right to drug. ie., to claim that it is a disease, hence druggin it.

Phlogistician has suggested that your on some kind of disability allowance.
Now i'm not going to make any judgement or criticism if you are, but how can you argue that all sorts of things can go wrong with the body - but none go wrong with the most complex organ of all, the brain?

me))phlo is a propaganderist, and his shit's worked on you huwy. suggestion is not the actual!.....ypu don see how your whole attitude SO reflects the problem i am trying to reveal. maybe one day...who knows

It does have a mass of about 1.4kg and billions of cells.
It is involved in hormone production.

So how can you receive money from (one of the best welfare systems in the world) people in a society who sympathise with your situation - whatever that is - and yet because it doesn't suit your ridiculous beliefs - completely deny that another group of people can have problems with some aspect of their brain?

me)))see what you have done now. you have listened to phlo's suggestion and now have me down as 'mentally ill' right? ...didn't fen have to daignose me. nest stop drugs right? what ya got?

That strikes me as being quite cold and demonstrates an inability to empathise with others, not to mention being a bit hypocritical.

me))))))my god. theres no end to yout tomfoolishness is there. and hypocrisy's yer middle nae kid. as well as presumpiousness and a whole host of names i cant remember right now. you take ze bizcit you really do

The fact is, that while the mental health system has problems and has been used to abuse power in the past, by denying some people of their rights and denying their liberty (I won't deny this) - in most cases it has been shown to help most people, and prevent suicide, and increase the likelyhood that people can return to some kind of quality of life.

me)))again. naiveity on your part. it hasREATED suicides with its use of drugs that cause it,espcially in young people. of course you've missed all this COMMON news yet want to join up tp 'help people' jeeeesh

I'm not denying your right to be frightened of things that are new and strange, we are all just discussing the details.

me)what the fuk u goin on with now. what ya on? come on ouuuut with it. what ya on?

I mean, in Australia, companies are still paying out compensation for asbestos cancer victims.

Can I ask a question duendy, do you smoke tobacco?
I've smoked tobacco and marijuana (but not for some years now - personal choice).
not teellin you or phlo nuthin. your are both propagandersts who make up stuff as you go along. jut tellin it likeit is

Perhaps we should be moving this thread to the Cesspool, seeing as my question has been answered and all this other stuff is kind of irrelevant.

You brought up Mercola, duendy. I took issue with some falsehoods on his web site. Since, you've declined to offer any support for Mercola, or defend his position. If you choose to stop eating microwaved food, because of a web site containing falshoods, that's you choice, but if you use that web site as a reference, the reference has to stand scrutiny. It doesn't. As usual, all you do is try and slur anyone who disagrees with you, make personal remarks, and try and rubbish us in return.

You keep dodging answering questions you don't like again duendy. I'm fairly sure you are on some sort of sickness benefit, signed off from work.

So you are happy to take payouts from the govt, happy the healthcare system signed you off so you don't have to work, but completely disrespectful to both.

I know you won't admit whatever condition it is you have, but I'm thinking most likely depression, not helped by your substance abuse, and I'd guess you drink and smoke a fair amount too. In fact, I think your typing is probably due to motor skills and alcohol, rather than a crapped out keyboard. (because new batteries, or a call to your local branch (I presume you are using a digital set top box for internet access) of your isp/telephony company (ntl: in Manchester?) could resolve that.

Also, I presume you are on disability, because I don't think I've seen you post about content of books you've read from libraries, it's always woo woo web sites. So you don't seem to get about much.

And you might think this is personal, but I really am trying to understand how you have slid into your belief system.

phlo.... what re YOU on dude. like i am gonna waste any more time wid yur nonesense, and absurdity. here's the 'facts man' who has conjured up out of the air all he thinks he knows about me and believes it?....that also is so duplicitious. one mo claiming he 'just wants to know me'...then next breath is puttin me down having catetgorized me

you are one of the biggest sorriest fools i've ever comeacross. phlo, and beeelieve me thats saying something...!

Yeah, that's her way of dealing with it. Dodge the issues (ignore) and attempt to change the subject to ANYTHING else.

As to her working, would you hire her? I certainly would NOT. I happen to own a couple of retail businesses and, if she lived in my town, I'd get a restraining order to keep her at least 500 feet away from them. She's a public nuisance and I would not want her disturbing my customers.

Translated from newspeak into English: Light likes to pick fights with his customers for entertainment.

Perhaps we should be moving this thread to the Cesspool, seeing as my question has been answered and all this other stuff is kind of irrelevant.

Ophiolite, Light, and Phlogistician have personal grudges against anyone who doesn't like their crap.

phlo.... what re YOU on dude. like i am gonna waste any more time wid yur nonesense, and absurdity. here's the 'facts man' who has conjured up out of the air all he thinks he knows about me and believes it?....that also is so duplicitious. one mo claiming he 'just wants to know me'...then next breath is puttin me down having catetgorized me

you are one of the biggest sorriest fools i've ever comeacross. phlo, and beeelieve me thats saying something...!

Another ad hom without an answer, duendy. You're only bailing on the thread because I'm getting uncomfortably close, I'm sure.

Ophiolite, Light, and Phlogistician have personal grudges against anyone who doesn't like their crap.

Sure, so why did you feel the need to tell me that again?

Ophiolite, professional geologist

Light, professional scientist

and Phlogistician ex physicist

have personal grudges against anyone who doesn't like their crap.

Yep. Crap, in this context, meaning verifiable facts, of course.

And just for the record, it seems to me that Ophiolite, Light and Phlogistician are the ones who repeatedly type reasonable arguments with references and structure, only to be refuted by idiots who simply dodge anything that threatens their unfounded beliefs.

professional geologist

professional scientist

me))))phlogigistician: ex physicist, and presently a nincompoop



Yep. Crap, in this context, meaning verifiable facts, of course.
no. all thats comin fromyus bizy fingers is crap

And just for the record, it seems to me that Ophiolite, Light and Phlogistician are the ones who repeatedly type reasonable arguments with references and structure, only to be refuted by idiots who simply dodge anything that threatens their unfounded beliefs.
'type reasonable argumets'....errr where. all i am seeing isinnuendo, insult, pathologizing,insult, injury, small mindeness, narrowmindness lack of sophistication, empathy, intelligence.....you in the reductive religion you choose to live with wit your besy mates of course conveniently ignore all of that.......don't you? ...now...is he gonnanadmit it people?? is the pope a Jew?

more ad homs and no facts duendy.

Answer the questions I've asked of you.

And just for the record, it seems to me that Ophiolite, Light and Phlogistician are the ones who repeatedly type reasonable arguments with references and structure, only to be refuted by idiots who simply dodge anything that threatens their unfounded beliefs.

I see. You also are full of horseshit. Sorry for wasting my time.

more ad homs and no facts duendy.

Answer the questions I've asked of you.
ever thought of joining the FBI, Gestapo, CIA, ...or are you a member of em already? you would fit kiddo....wo yeaaaah

bet yer proud o that aren't ya?

...ohhh and phlo..just clicked pn ya name to see how much info YPU give out....haha. dont practice what you preeach....
'birthday'21 jan 2001.....? they meant when yer born bone head
'location', 'mars'....ohhh VERY factual i must say!

'occupation' 'monster'....well, good on ya for honesty there phlo. i see new horizons acomin fo ya boooy

And just for the record, it seems to me that Ophiolite, Light and Phlogistician are the ones who repeatedly type reasonable arguments with references and structure, only to be refuted by idiots who simply dodge anything that threatens their unfounded beliefs.

Thank you, Jack, I appreciate that and am sure the other two do also. Also, just for the record, it should be noted that reasonable, intelligent people can recognize others like them.

I've not said a great deal in the thread but feel I should offer a bit of real information at this point since there has been such a massive amount of MISinformation presented here. Let me state at the beginning that I spent a number of years working with microwaves in connection with one of my chosen fields - marine biology.

One thing was the absurdity that MetaKron inserted in this thread about microwaves "inducing electric currents" in living tissues, the only real effect is localized heating. Absolutely no electrical currents whatsoever. The exciting of the atoms causing them to vibrate faster is precisely the same effect achieved by holding something in the flame of a candle. The only difference being that microwave heating occurs at subsurface levels (depths) while applying heat directly begins the process at the surface.

As to dangers of harm from microwave radiation, yes, there are a few but they are very special cases and quite limited. One is the human eye. Staring directly in the source of a high-powered beam can cause permanent eye damage and increase the incidence of cataract formation. About the only other danger is that of possibly damaging the reproductive system. The male testes and the female ovaries are susceptible to extreme heat. Again, it would require a strong beam and a considerable length of exposure to elevate the internal temperature enough to cause sterilization - but it can be done.

However , you will never encounter such high intensities - nor duration of exposure - from any commercial consumer item that produces microwaves. Such dosages are only possible by placing yourself directly in front of a military radar antenna or something similar. Things that ordinary people would never encounter.

One thing was the absurdity that MetaKron inserted in this thread about microwaves "inducing electric currents" in living tissues, the only real effect is localized heating. Absolutely no electrical currents whatsoever.

Absolute crap. Microwaves induce electrical currents in any conductor. The heating is caused by those electrical currents. It's nice to see you so blatantly change the laws of physics. One or two more people might catch wise to you.

Sure, so why did you feel the need to tell me that again?

Jack54, Light, Phlogistian, and Ophiolite have personal grudges against anyone who won't take their crap.

Absolute crap. Microwaves induce electrical currents in any conductor. The heating is caused by those electrical currents. It's nice to see you so blatantly change the laws of physics. One or two more people might catch wise to you.
Well, well, well. Silly little MetaKron again. I suppose you've never heard that heat IS the vibration of atoms/molecules, eh? And in this case there's no "resistance heating" needed or involved. Sounds like you're still hung up on your resistance heating vs heatpumps. Are you not aware that there are other means of heating than electrical resistance? In this case it's simply direct excitation of water molecules.

Time for you to do some very basic research once again. (Which you seem to not be able to do on any topic.)

...ohhh and phlo..just clicked pn ya name to see how much info YPU give out....haha. dont practice what you preeach....
'birthday'21 jan 2001.....? they meant when yer born bone head
'location', 'mars'....ohhh VERY factual i must say!

'occupation' 'monster'....well, good on ya for honesty there phlo. i see new horizons acomin fo ya boooy

I've asked you specific questions, and you've dodged, and you are stalling again talking about the info in my profile.

I didn't say anything about profiles, duendy, that's you stuffing that straw man again.

Now, are you employed, or not? I'm guessing not, because if you were, you'd have said it by now.

ever thought of joining the FBI, Gestapo, CIA, ...or are you a member of em already? you would fit kiddo....wo yeaaaah

bet yer proud o that aren't ya?

I already said I once applied to MI5 duendy, but to be honest, the money was crap, so I didn't pursue the application further. I know and have known people who work for the intelligence services, as friends.

I, however, am not a government agent. I'm just some guy who knows a little bit of physics.

But again, duendy, this is just another of your pathetic attempts to divert the conversation from the question. Are you gainfully employed?

I've asked you specific questions, and you've dodged, and you are stalling again talking about the info in my profile.

I didn't say anything about profiles, duendy, that's you stuffing that straw man again.

Now, are you employed, or not? I'm guessing not, because if you were, you'd have said it by now.
hmmmmphlo... you are acting PARTIULARLY weird lately. quite obsessional actually. are you on any form of medication? you WIL tell me the truth wont you. orrr i will keep askin. for as u know...theres
no smoke without fire

so are you mentally disturbed phlo. listen you can pm me. let me know. i wouldrecommend you rather seek counselling than take meds, as as i have said. mental illness is myth--regarding bio-shrinks claiming its biological/ but i really feel you need someone to talk to luv. pm me and i ill offer u support as best i can

I already said I once applied to MI5 duendy, but to be honest, the money was crap, so I didn't pursue the application further. I know and have known people who work for the intelligence services, as friends.

me))))))yeahhh, thought as much sweetheart

I, however, am not a government agent. I'm just some guy who knows a little bit of physics.

me)))))suuure. we believe you phlo. everything alright at home?

But again, duendy, this is just another of your pathetic attempts to divert the conversation from the question. Are you gainfully employed?
cause i am my dear phlo. do you fel better now. like i sid. anytime yyo need to talk....aout issues. you know where to find me. now, get some rest dear one

Yet another post from duendy, and predictably, no answer to a direct question.

Duendy, do you work for a living?

Yet another post from duendy, and predictably, no answer to a direct question.

Duendy, do you work for a living?
what part of 'artist' dont you understand my sweet sweet thang?

hmmmmphlo... you are acting PARTIULARLY weird lately. quite obsessional actually. are you on any form of medication? you WIL tell me the truth wont you. orrr i will keep askin. for as u know...theres
no smoke without fire

so are you mentally disturbed phlo. listen you can pm me. let me know. i wouldrecommend you rather seek counselling than take meds, as as i have said. mental illness is myth--regarding bio-shrinks claiming its biological/ but i really feel you need someone to talk to luv. pm me and i ill offer u support as best i can

Yet another dodge, duendy, but just so you can't use it as an excuse, no, I'm not under any stress, everything is fine, and I am not taking any medication. I'm happy, life is good, and I have quit a bit to look forward to, including you answering my question;

'duendy, do you work for a living?'

what part of 'artist' dont you understand my sweet sweet thang?

I understand 'artist', but that's not what I asked. I asked if you worked for a living. Now, does your art pay you a living wage, or are you on benefits?

I understand 'artist', but that's not what I asked. I asked if you worked for a living. Now, does your art pay you a living wage, or are you on benefits?
seriously phlo luv. are you feeling lright. i am very aware you push normalcy, but thisobsession of your s to knowmy business, and your childish impudence in 'gettin it outta me' is...straaange....your makin me FWITTTENED stooop iiit. you dont know my address do you??

oh i make me laugh haha

Another dodge, and yet another failure to answer.

Duendy, this is another version of what I've been saying. We watch these people when they want to deny things, and we realize that they are not behaving like the kind of responsible and knowledgeable adults they want to pretend to be. Once again, what bees do these mortals fool? They want to pretend to be knowledgeable and responsible, but look at how they attempt to accomplish this. They turn everything into childish piss-fight.

Thanks Light: that all makes sense. My mind is at ease. I'm doing a physics class at school next year, so hopefully I'll be able to sort these things out for myself before too long :D.

Thanks Light: that all makes sense. My mind is at ease. I'm doing a physics class at school next year, so hopefully I'll be able to sort these things out for myself before too long :D.

You're definitely off to a running start here.

God help us.

MetaKron, what qualifications do you have that make you so sure you're correct and the SCIENTISTS on this board are wrong?

MetaKron, what qualifications do you have that make you so sure you're correct and the SCIENTISTS on this board are wrong?

You call them scientists? They're just wahoos who are taking advantage of you.

Nice dodge.

You call them scientists? They're just wahoos who are taking advantage of you.
Oh, really?

And just why do you suppose we would want to take advantage of him? Or anyone else, for that matter? Do you think we own the companies that make microwave ovens?

MetaKron, sometimes you are childish and other times you are VERY childish. Just like your business of microwaves and electrical currents. You don't seem to even know that it takes something to act as a radio detector (like a diode or crystal) to convert any form of EM into an electrical current.

I think I've finally begun to see what some of your problem is. You learned most of the basics in school - but stopped there. You don't seem to have a clue as to how they fit or connect with each other. And you have almost no idea at all how those basics are transformed into actual applications. You seem to know things like Ohm's Law, the principles of thermodynamics and Carnot's Cycle. But that's all. Just the theories, laws and principles - nothing about how they relate or how to put them to use.

But given all that you don't know, you like to try to make people think you know absolutely everything! And now I understand perfectly why you were bullied so bad in school. (Yes. I've read the thread but didn't have that problem myself.) I remember full-well that other kids would hassle anyone they considered to be a fake smarty. The kid who pretended he knew stuff. They'd make his life a living hell - which is exactly the way you described your time in school.

Everyone can spot the fake - and it's happened to you once again. Right here.

About the only other danger is that of possibly damaging the reproductive system. The male testes and the female ovaries are susceptible to extreme heat. Again, it would require a strong beam and a considerable length of exposure to elevate the internal temperature enough to cause sterilization - but it can be done.


I've just being thinking about this Light, and having heard other rumours was wondering if you could clear up one more thing: is sterilization possible from resting a laptop on your upper legs? Through shorts it never feels too hot, but is it?

I've just being thinking about this Light, and having heard other rumours was wondering if you could clear up one more thing: is sterilization possible from resting a laptop on your upper legs? Through shorts it never feels too hot, but is it?

No, you would become uncomfortably warm - practically hot - before there was any danger. The difference between this situation and microwaves is that here the heat is being applied externally where you can sense (feel) it. With microwaves, the heat is generated internally where there aren't any heat-sensitive nerve-endings.

Under normal conditions, like a hot object in your lap, the body does an excellent job of letting you know when things are becoming unhealthy.

Fantastic. I could never find a more comfortable position.

Thanks again,
Jack

hehehe i remember lying in my bed once playing warcraft 2 on a laptop when i had the flu. The sheets underneath the laptop would get all warm, and then you could move it to the other side and lie on the warm patch. Or the cat would lie there instead. :)

I have heard there have been studies that have suggested that living under huge powerlines can increase the risk of certain problems like headaches etc. But we are talking those huge towers that hold a junction of power lines up.

Any suggestions?

Oh look, its the brain. And wow, the bits have names too!!
http://www.joelertola.com/grfx/grfx_img/brain_stress.jpg

Heh, yes, though it's a little too hot here right now to want to lie on the warm patch. My old laptop used to spontaneously shut down every now and again, which I think happened because I'd inadvertantly cover the heat-exiter-thing with my doona. I'm not sure about powerlines. Why would that happen? Got any sources? Interesting picture of the brain.

Power lines are thought to cause leukaemia, and one possible mechanism is that they cause and concentrate free radicals, which damage tissue.

There's no definite correlation, afaik, but there are almost significant statistical results.

Oh, really?

And just why do you suppose we would want to take advantage of him? Or anyone else, for that matter? Do you think we own the companies that make microwave ovens?

MetaKron, sometimes you are childish and other times you are VERY childish. Just like your business of microwaves and electrical currents. You don't seem to even know that it takes something to act as a radio detector (like a diode or crystal) to convert any form of EM into an electrical current.

I think I've finally begun to see what some of your problem is. You learned most of the basics in school - but stopped there. You don't seem to have a clue as to how they fit or connect with each other. And you have almost no idea at all how those basics are transformed into actual applications. You seem to know things like Ohm's Law, the principles of thermodynamics and Carnot's Cycle. But that's all. Just the theories, laws and principles - nothing about how they relate or how to put them to use.

But given all that you don't know, you like to try to make people think you know absolutely everything! And now I understand perfectly why you were bullied so bad in school. (Yes. I've read the thread but didn't have that problem myself.) I remember full-well that other kids would hassle anyone they considered to be a fake smarty. The kid who pretended he knew stuff. They'd make his life a living hell - which is exactly the way you described your time in school.

Everyone can spot the fake - and it's happened to you once again. Right here.


Light, just how many times have you said something so amazingly stupid that the whole room goes quiet because people can't believe that you said it? It just happened again.

You may be the first industry hack to deny the existence of induced currents in organic tissues. In fact you've denied the existence of all induced currents. I'm glad Westinghouse didn't hear you say that. Why do people not bother to try to explain some things to you? They don't want to go through sixteen rounds of lectures to get one simple concept into you, especially without being paid for it.

You've proven yourself the fake, Light. Case closed.

Light, just how many times have you said something so amazingly stupid that the whole room goes quiet because people can't believe that you said it? It just happened again.

You may be the first industry hack to deny the existence of induced currents in organic tissues. In fact you've denied the existence of all induced currents. I'm glad Westinghouse didn't hear you say that. Why do people not bother to try to explain some things to you? They don't want to go through sixteen rounds of lectures to get one simple concept into you, especially without being paid for it.

You've proven yourself the fake, Light. Case closed.

Ha! Typical of the little jerk MetaKron. I never once said "all induced currents." And we are talking about microwaves here, dummy, not magnetic fields. Once again your complete lack of knowledge is showing since you cannot distinguish between a magnetic field and electromagnetic radiation.

So who's proven themselves to be tha fake? Why, our local know-it-all (know-nothing) MetaKron, that's who. :D

And just who was it that had to go through "sixteen rounds of lectures" to get one simple concept of a heatpump into him? Why, that was MetaKron too! :D

I'll admit my post was a tad facetious, because I knew we weren't talking
about literal antennae. And in all seriousness I recognize that psychology
makes valuable contributions to our lives. I still don't know if I'd go so far
as to call it a science. Perhaps a necesary art, like economics or what-not.

I was also hoping that we'd get back on topic somewhat, because this
thread was halfway derailed when I posted. Now it's degenerated into
pure name-calling, so I guess I'll give it up as a bad lot.

I'll admit my post was a tad facetious, because I knew we weren't talking
about literal antennae. And in all seriousness I recognize that psychology
makes valuable contributions to our lives. I still don't know if I'd go so far
as to call it a science. Perhaps a necesary art, like economics or what-not.

I was also hoping that we'd get back on topic somewhat, because this
thread was halfway derailed when I posted. Now it's degenerated into
pure name-calling, so I guess I'll give it up as a bad lot.

That was his plan, and somehow I'm just not good with this kind of static.

The truth is that microwaves induce currents in anything that is conductive, just like radio waves. In fact, they are radio waves. They act exactly like magnetic fields that change their intensity and direction because that is what they are. The current that they induce is proportionate to the rate of change of the magnetic field. That rate of change is proportionate to the frequency. Since you get about 1.4 billion (10^9) complete cycles per second, and peak to peak is 2.818 times RMS, and you double that, you get 5.636 * 1.4 * 10^9 * measured voltage for a rate of change. For each microvolt, that's a rate of change of 7890 volts per second. 120 VAC has a rate of change of about 40580 volts per second. This is how things that look miniscule can start to add up. If that exposure is high enough to induce a millivolt RMS, you've got 7.89 million volts per microsecond, and that's up there. It will very effectively couple whatever power does leak out. We're still talking about fairly small amounts of energy, but we don't know where they might concentrate when standing waves get going. The trouble is that the body contains some very small and sensitive structures. How do you think that ionizing radiation even can cause trouble, like UV cancers? UV comes in packets that are very, very small but they are concentrated enough to deliver their energy to a very small volume.

There's just enough that we don't know that we had better take a hard look when there is an indicator that there might be trouble.

I'll admit my post was a tad facetious, because I knew we weren't talking
about literal antennae. And in all seriousness I recognize that psychology
makes valuable contributions to our lives. I still don't know if I'd go so far
as to call it a science. Perhaps a necesary art, like economics or what-not.

I was also hoping that we'd get back on topic somewhat, because this
thread was halfway derailed when I posted. Now it's degenerated into
pure name-calling, so I guess I'll give it up as a bad lot.

It's unimportant because the original questions posed at the start of this thread have been dealt with. So there's no longer any topic to return to at this point.

When I was a lot younger, my sister once told me to not stand in front of the microwave, because I'd get cancer. Since then I've had an unfounded belief that if I get too close I'll die from some hideous disease in the future. Common sense tells me, "Jack, why would these things be on the market if they were that dangerous?", but I still can't avoid ducking when I walk past.

This is a great shame because when I'm cooking porridge I can't tell if it's boiling over.

Can someone tell me what's going on in microwaves so I can dispell this notion once and for all?

So let's start over again and hope that Light is through with his attempts to psyche me out.

What is going on with microwaves? First, if you are reading this, you are very likely to have access to Google. There are numerous encyclopedias out there that explain the workings of a microwave oven and what microwaves are.

The microwaves generated by a microwave oven are the same kind of Hertzian wave that is generated by almost anything that you would call a radio transmitter. There are differences like frequency and intensity, and some transmission modes use what are known as Gaussian pulses with are essentially radio frequency static with readable patterns.

A radio wave is exactly what you get when you run electricity through a conductive material like copper wire. It is generated by the change in the current flowing through the conductor. You can use a loop of wire, a battery like a flashlight battery, and an AM radio to demonstrate this. Turn the radio to a place on the dial that you don't hear a station, or the station is weak. Attach the loop of wire to one end of the battery and tap the other end with the other end of the wire. You will hear clicking on the radio receiver. If you don't, wrap some of the wire around the radio. There, you have made a crude transmitter.

Radio waves induce current in anything conductive. This is one of the principles of electromagnetics that has been known for a very long time. That current is there whether you have a detector for it or not. The detector does not change the material so that it produces electrical current. It just measures what is there. A human body is made of about the same material as a piece of meat in the microwave and has very nearly the same physical properties. This is why the human body makes a pretty good antenna for radio reception. If you are trying to listen to a weak station on a radio you can often enhance reception by touching the antenna. It doesn't work on every station because not every wavelength couples as well.

A microwave oven generates a radio wave with a short wavelength and enough power to induce large electrical currents in the material that you are trying to heat. These electrical currents excite the water molecules and most other molecules in the food. Unfortunately, electrical currents have a tendency to break down most compounds that they come in contact with. They are ionizing because they knock electrons around. This may or may not be a bad thing, but we should take it into account. We've seen the kind of denial that there can be anything bad about microwaving food. It goes as far as revising the known laws of physics.

So let's start over again and hope that Light is through with his attempts to psyche me out.

A microwave oven generates a radio wave with a short wavelength and enough power to induce large electrical currents in the material that you are trying to heat. These electrical currents excite the water molecules and most other molecules in the food. Unfortunately, electrical currents have a tendency to break down most compounds that they come in contact with. They are ionizing because they knock electrons around. This may or may not be a bad thing, but we should take it into account. We've seen the kind of denial that there can be anything bad about microwaving food. It goes as far as revising the known laws of physics.

I've made no attempts to present anything less than factual information.

On the other hand, you, Metakron, truly are one of those to whom the the saying applies "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." As I said before, you know some of the very basics but have almost absolutely NO understanding of things beyond the minimum needed to get through high school.

Form the above paragraph it's clearly evident that you do not even know the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. Microwaves are FAR below the frequency band of ionizing radiation.

Ionizing radiation begins at around the frequency of UV light. Microwaves cover the band of about 1Ghz - 100Ghz. The conventional microwave oven operates at about 2.5Ghz. For comparison, visible light, which is also non-ionizing, extends up to about 1,000THz.

The only thing you've said that is actually accurate and useful was the suggestion to use Google. And since you were obviously also too lazy to have done that yourself before posting the half-truths of your confused mind, I did exactly that to provide evidence of what I'm saying as opposed to your worthless garbage.

For anyone who's interested in the real truth, not Metakron's half-baked physics, take a look here: http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:fjrbOvMF5fUJ:www.gallawa.com/microtech/mwave.html+microwaves+%2B%22living+tissue%22&hl=en

That's a shell game, Light. If you were just trying to teach me to use Google, which I use a hell of a lot, you would have given up your little joke a long time ago. No induced currents in living tissue? How much do you want to embarass yourself?

I am perfectly aware that ionizing radiation is the kind of radiation that knocks electrons from their shells by brute force, energizing them enough to make them escape. That starts at the UV range of the spectrum.

Electrons are caused to migrate by exposure to any RF. This is because of electrical current, not ejected electrons, and that is why there is a technical difference. One thing that some technicians have found out the hard way is that it doesn't take very many watts to cause RF burns. There is a thing about the rapid change in rate of the current that makes the effective voltage much higher against any structure that has certain physical properties and we don't know what all of those physical properties are. Some electrolysis can take place. You might say that the current reversals reverse the electrolysis, but most such reactions are not reversible.

The problem just gets worse when you are talking about actually shaking molecules around. This can break up molecules into smaller pieces. I'm not completely convinced that a body can process quite as well amino acids and sugars whose molecules have been bent, folded, spindled, and mutiliated.

That's a shell game, Light. If you were just trying to teach me to use Google, which I use a hell of a lot, you would have given up your little joke a long time ago. No induced currents in living tissue? How much do you want to embarass yourself?

I am perfectly aware that ionizing radiation is the kind of radiation that knocks electrons from their shells by brute force, energizing them enough to make them escape. That starts at the UV range of the spectrum.

Electrons are caused to migrate by exposure to any RF. This is because of electrical current, not ejected electrons, and that is why there is a technical difference. One thing that some technicians have found out the hard way is that it doesn't take very many watts to cause RF burns. There is a thing about the rapid change in rate of the current that makes the effective voltage much higher against any structure that has certain physical properties and we don't know what all of those physical properties are. Some electrolysis can take place. You might say that the current reversals reverse the electrolysis, but most such reactions are not reversible.

The problem just gets worse when you are talking about actually shaking molecules around. This can break up molecules into smaller pieces. I'm not completely convinced that a body can process quite as well amino acids and sugars whose molecules have been bent, folded, spindled, and mutiliated.

No, I'm not trying to teach you how to use Google or anything else.

The thing is, your mangled information would be comical if it weren't for the fact that it misleads people.

And once again, YOU attempt to now claim that you knew something all along which you clearly did not. Your methods are clearly like that of any kid who did something stupid and then try to claim, "Yeah, I meant to do that!" Pathetic.

As far as heat "shaking molecules around and breaking them up", you are only exhibiting your ignorance once again.

It's also equally clear that you NEVER show any references to back up your misunderstandings - as I did with my information - because there is NO reference that supports you in any way. You just make it up as you go along and expect people to believe you. It doesn't work - you've been caught by others than just myself many times in many other threads. Yet you never seem to learn. And that's a prime example of extreme egotistical stupidity. You always think you can weasel your way out of it. That doesn't work either and you've gained quite a reputation here for being among the most ignorant posters ever.

Obviously Dennis Leary writes your material.

Obviously Dennis Leary writes your material.

Now that's a fine response to a scientific debate.

Typical.

Maybe it's Seth McFarlane, actually.