i'm thinking but i can't decide becuase i'm thinking about it due to fear of going to hell is that realy a reason to become christian out of fear???

Whatever turns you on.

i'm thinking but i can't decide becuase i'm thinking about it due to fear of going to hell is that realy a reason to become christian out of fear???

Yup

i'm not sure however this is becuase my brother he turned christian and he said to me you're neot expeting jesus as youre saviour so youre going to hell

Tons of religions, I presume, would punish the "unbelievers" with hell, so picking Christianity will not save you from the other religions, considering they turn out to be true. I say, don't choose a religion from fear, but from appreciation for it.

If you want to be of a religion, read their books (Qur'an for Islam, Bible for Christianity, etc, etc, etc), and form your own decision. Whatever sounds best to you...

thanks for that kadark... i would just like some proof you know just so im not threatend with hell liek evry minute

whatever works and makes you happy

Hmm...what kind of proof are you looking for? Proof for God? Proof for the individual religion?

Anyway, it's up to you. I can't tell you much on other religions, but if you ever have questions or criticisms of Islam, PM me.

ash...if you ever decide to turn to buddhism, pm me

i'm thinking but i can't decide becuase i'm thinking about it due to fear of going to hell is that realy a reason to become christian out of fear???

Jesus never ever says that you'll go to hell if you don't believe in him, rather he says the opposite ("he who is not against us is for us"), don't believe what these foolish pretenders say...

Christianity (originally) was all about following Jesus and his way, like love your neighbor like yourself, forgive and be forgiven, love your enemies, give freely to all, become like little children, etc...

Jesus said that the people of his time were the generation of vipers, the lowest of men, full of evil, and wouldn't achieve the kingdom...

you really think that the universe and god is that petty?. if there was such a thing as heaven and hell you wouldent be sent there for not accepting jesus.

dont join a contradictory religion. if you want to believe in a god thats fair enough. but christianity is false, the bible cant be taken as litteral fact.

just lead a good life and enjoy yourself while doing so, good people having nothing to fear with or without heaven and hell, god cant use none of his bullshit on me because i have a loophole for his ass. the bible said that god forgives everyone and is the essence of love. so he must forgive everything bad i did. and he is not just love he is also hate murder lies and badness. because he created everything that is bad aswell as good.

so if god has a problem just tell him to fuck off and not be such a cock. and if he didnt want any drama he shouldent have created us. he should have created 7 billion mormons instead.

dont join christianity man, just lead a good life why would god want to create a bunch of worshipping morons who dont think for themselves? i thought he would be proud of us for being philosophers and scientists finding out things for ourselves. not worshipping his ancient feet.

i say screw christianity, and screw god if he does send people to hell. i say bring it on bitch. i will spit in his face.


peace.

Yup

Fear is an individual emotion. Supposedly you become a Christian for one reason, or you don't become one.

and Jesus describes a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth"; this quotation appears six times in Matthew and once in Luke.

A vivd account of hell is found in Luke 16:19-28 (Lazarus and Dives). In this account, it is said that nobody can pass from the bosom of Abraham to hell or vice versa. Fire and thirst are again described, and it is stated that the souls that are in Hell can see those that are in Heaven and vice versa. Many view this story as a parable, and as such, believe its meaning may not literally define the existence in the afterlife, but instead serve as a metaphor or illustration.

All this can mean many things. My opinion is that Jesus described it best.

but christianity is false, the bible cant be taken as litteral fact.
.

no religion is false.

no religion is false.

ok then they are all correct, even the multitude of vast contradictions.

i shall follow them all like a pick 'N' mix of belief systems.

actualy i will stick to being an agnostic daoist.


peace.

actualy i will stick to being an agnostic daoist.


staying in question of the universe all the time...how will you become a powerful entity than? One must be truthful to a certain belief to gain power from it.

staying in question of the universe all the time...how will you become a powerful entity than? One must be truthful to a certain belief to gain power from it.

as soon as you think you know everything, thats when you become most stupid. how can we follow 100% that wich is not proven to us?

what if you are following something far from the true path? time is precious im not wasting it believing in some bullshit that is not even slightly proven.


as a free thinker i have no limits to my mind. unlike the religious slaves who have boundaries, i am free to explore the possible answers, not restrained by the text of a book. my imagination is a more powerful tool than any religion or science book.

peace.

ok then they are all correct, even the multitude of vast contradictions.

i shall follow them all like a pick 'N' mix of belief systems.

actualy i will stick to being an agnostic daoist.


peace.
All religions aren't correct, but there is truth in all of them. There is nothing that exists besides the truth...

Taoism? Isn't the concept of the Tao just like a concept of God?

"The Tao is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.

It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.

The Tao is infinite, eternal.
Why is it eternal?
It was never born;
thus it can never die.
Why is it infinite?
It has no desires for itself;
thus it is present for all beings" (Tao Te Ching, 6-7)

as soon as you think you know everything, thats when you become most stupid. how can we follow 100% that wich is not proven to us?

what if you are following something far from the true path? time is precious im not wasting it believing in some bullshit that is not even slightly proven.


as a free thinker i have no limits to my mind. unlike the religious slaves who have boundaries, i am free to explore the possible answers, not restrained by the text of a book. my imagination is a more powerful tool than any religion or science book.

peace.

Taoism is proven? Where?

as soon as you think you know everything, thats when you become most stupid. how can we follow 100% that wich is not proven to us?

what if you are following something far from the true path? time is precious im not wasting it believing in some bullshit that is not even slightly proven.


as a free thinker i have no limits to my mind. unlike the religious slaves who have boundaries, i am free to explore the possible answers, not restrained by the text of a book. my imagination is a more powerful tool than any religion or science book.

peace.

That's an argument from ignorance to think that something is false until proven true....

The fact is, the truth is, there are innumerable things that already true that are currently unproven with no evidence, just as in the past, all the currently undiscovered things that are already true are true before there is any evidence or proof for them...evidence doesn't cause something to become true...

All religions aren't correct, but there is truth in all of them. There is nothing that exists besides the truth...

Taoism? Isn't the concept of the Tao just like a concept of God?

"The Tao is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.

It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.

The Tao is infinite, eternal.
Why is it eternal?
It was never born;
thus it can never die.
Why is it infinite?
It has no desires for itself;
thus it is present for all beings" (Tao Te Ching, 6-7)


no because dao is not spoke of as if it is a conscious aware lifeform like god is. except an infinite source of all energy. wich cannot be created but gave way for all creation.


also the dao is a way of life wich teaches you to change and evolve your mind, not to believe what is written in a book. it even states "the tao that can be named is not the eternal tao".


there is a big difference between dao and christianity.


peace.

i think so far kardark and empty force of chi have been the mos thelpful thanks guys.

Taoism is proven? Where?

dao does not ever claim to be true, but it is infinite and that is proven fact. because energy cannot be created or destroyed. therefore is infinite and without start or end. just endless transformation,

dao is a way of life that evolves and changes, it is not set in stone like your islam or christian faith. i can win any debate over religion using my dao philosophy, wich i have proven time and time again.


energy is eternal, it cannot be created or destroyed. only transformed into different states and forms. dao is the fabric of existence, that wich you cannot see, hear or touch it is the empty force infront of your face right now, the force that allows air to flow, that allows sound to pass through, that allows light to travel. it is infinite and cannot be diminished,


all the energy in the universe has always existed, it cannot be destroyed or created.


now prove islam to me.


peace.

That's an argument from ignorance to think that something is false until proven true....

The fact is, the truth is, there are innumerable things that already true that are currently unproven with no evidence, just as in the past, all the currently undiscovered things that are already true are true before there is any evidence or proof for them...evidence doesn't cause something to become true...

thats why i kep an open mind and do not fix my belief system. because if so many things can be true why believe in certain tings and not others?

instead stay neutral and flow with things, but why take something as truth when it is not proven?. i say its undecided untill proven true. but never true before proven to be true.






peace.

thats why i kep an open mind and do not fix my belief system. because if so many things can be true why believe in certain tings and not others?

instead stay neutral and flow with things, but why take something as truth when it is not proven?. i say its undecided untill proven true. but never true before proven to be true.






peace.

But something is true before proven to be true...do you think the Earth revolved around the Sun before it was proven? If you do, then you are saying there are things that are already true that are true before proven true...

thats why i kep an open mind and do not fix my belief system. because if so many things can be true why believe in certain tings and not others?

instead stay neutral and flow with things, but why take something as truth when it is not proven?. i say its undecided untill proven true. but never true before proven to be true.

peace.

I am pretty sure there can be only one truth...not sure what you mean. Maybe variations of truth.

I am pretty sure there can be only one truth...not sure what you mean. Maybe variations of truth.

life allows one infinite beliefs and all are true because all are allowed by life

dao does not ever claim to be true, but it is infinite and that is proven fact. because energy cannot be created or destroyed. therefore is infinite and without start or end. just endless transformation,

dao is a way of life that evolves and changes, it is not set in stone like your islam or christian faith. i can win any debate over religion using my dao philosophy, wich i have proven time and time again.


energy is eternal, it cannot be created or destroyed. only transformed into different states and forms. dao is the fabric of existence, that wich you cannot see, hear or touch it is the empty force infront of your face right now, the force that allows air to flow, that allows sound to pass through, that allows light to travel. it is infinite and cannot be diminished,


all the energy in the universe has always existed, it cannot be destroyed or created.

All you have said in this post is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Hey, thanks, but I already learned that in physics class. This is a piss poor attempt in proving Taoism. Nothing you just said compels me towards your beliefs in the slightest.

now prove islam to me.

Have you ever read the Qur'an from cover to cover?

i'm thinking but i can't decide becuase i'm thinking about it due to fear of going to hell is that realy a reason to become christian out of fear???

I guess it would make you a typical Christian. :shrug:
Can you rationalize your choices ?

i decided against it, i'm gona belive in god but i'm not gona worship him they way other people force me to or try to

I never understood people who had the ability to "decide" whether they are going to "believe" this or that simply because they want to, it is convenient, it is safe, it is popular or any other such reason.
I never understood the people who had the desire to do so either.
Truth is irrelevant, apparently.
I don't get it.

you decided that in a day?
it took me a few months to finally decide what i believed in
i was brought up Christian.. not really overly religious, like go to church every sunday or anything tho
but i decided that Agnosticism is for me.

check it out because i'd never heard of it until like last year, and when i looked it up i realised that it was what i'd always been thinking anyway lol

http://www.religioustolerance.org/agnostic.htm

ycheck it out because i'd never heard of it until like last year, and when i looked it up i realised that it was what i'd always been thinking anyway lol

Why did you not just believe what you believed, without having to find a label and definition for it?

it took me a few months to finally decide what i believed in

A few months?
It has been over 25 years of actively searching for me so far, and I am still not quite done figuring out (not "deciding") what I believe (though I do have a pretty solid base laid down).

Why did you not just believe what you believed, without having to find a label and definition for it?

i think for me, id rather have a label for it. Agnostic just pretty much sums it all up, so thats what i say i am. id rather have a label because it helps me to understand it better anyway. im neither really religious or otherwise, but i just think agnosticism is right for me

All you have said in this post is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Hey, thanks, but I already learned that in physics class. This is a piss poor attempt in proving Taoism. Nothing you just said compels me towards your beliefs in the slightest.

no, dao is the unseen force the empty form that is the structure of the universe. wave your hand infront of your face right now, what is that empty space?. it is a form of energy that cannot be detected and is infinite and eternal. all physical energy is also eternal and cannot be created.

and the tao te ching does not try to impose a set of rules on people like your quran, it does not to try scare people into believing something in fear of eternal fire. nor does it speak of an afterlife in the hereafter or a god figure. all wich we cannot talk about because lack of basis.

dao teaches you to be open minded and seek the truth in the universe. it doesent claim to know the truth already about everything. that is the difference between what i believe and what you believe, you believe in something that is not backed with facts, i dont. how can you ask to "prove the tao te ching" when the tao te ching states that it does not even know the truth, and the universe is still a mystery?.



Have you ever read the Qur'an from cover to cover?
yes actualy more than once, i have also read both bibles many buddhist scripts and alot of other religious teachings. if you have read the tao te ching, you will understand it is not claiming to be a book of facts like your quran, but it is a philosophy of life and the universe. dao is a way of life and doesent stop with the pages of the tao te ching.



peace.

But something is true before proven to be true...do you think the Earth revolved around the Sun before it was proven? If you do, then you are saying there are things that are already true that are true before proven true...


yes something is true before you accept it is true. so what are we to do with this fact?. believe in everything that could be true just because "it might be true" ?

isnt it more logical to believe something after you know its true? than to believe something just because truths exist before we understand them. why would you accept something just because it might be true? because you dont know its true so why even believe it?


peace.

EmptyForceOfChi,
With that philosophy, you should never believe anything at all.
Not only can nothing be proven, but things that are accepted as true by science, history, religion etc change all the time with new information and new perspectives.

EmptyForceOfChi,
With that philosophy, you should never believe anything at all.
Not only can nothing be proven, but things that are accepted as true by science, history, religion etc change all the time with new information and new perspectives.

exactly, things change, some things can be proven though. its proven that the earth is a ball and not a disc, its proven that the sun is hot, its proven that humans can reproduce, its proven that i played football over the weekend, its proven that other planets exist in the universe.

just like its proven that energy is infinite.


peace.

No, nothing can be proven - we only acept things as true that meet our own personal levels of assurance - or things on authority if we have no cause to look further or disagree.

just like its proven that energy is infinite.
That's a perfect example.
How was that proven?

Most scientists that accept that energy can't be created or destroyed hold true that the universe was created in the Big Bang.

That's a perfect example.
How was that proven?

Most scientists that accept that energy can't be created or destroyed hold true that the universe was created in the Big Bang.

i thought that the big bang doesent explain the actual creation of anything. all it does is explain that a bang occured and doesent go back before 10.4> or something.

and those scientists that do believe the big bang created all enerty and the actual universe, but still believe energy cannot be created or destroyed are fools. they contradict themselves, and the best answer they can come up with is "the laws of physics were not the same back then" wich is a cop out and a weak argument. i can use that argument to prove anything.


and are you telling me that its not proven that the sun is hot?, are you joking lol. ok what about this thenm is it not a proven fact that something exists? if not then how are you communicating with me if we dont exist in some way shape or form?




peace.

you don't have to become a christian because there is no hell.

you don't have to become a christian because there is no hell.

How do you or any other atheists know there is no hell? I'm guessing it's just pure personal incredulity "it just doesn't seem so" type of argument...

i'm not sure however this is becuase my brother he turned christian and he said to me you're not expeting jesus as youre saviour so youre going to hell
Oh, don't buy into that crap. It's a scare tactic, nothing more.
Hell is a fictional idea, a concept, used to make people fear death enough that they become manipulated by theistic religions.

How do you or any other atheists know there is no hell?

because it's illogical.

because it's illogical.

How is it illogical?

the4 christian and islamic idea of hell is illogical and contradictory to itself and god.


peace.

i'm thinking

No, you're not. If you were thinking, you'd not be joining a religion.

No, you're not. If you were thinking, you'd not be joining a religion.

he said he decided not to join a religion, and to decide something you have to think.

peace.

How is it illogical?
Lack of physical evidence. With the lack of physical evidence, it cannot be tested; thus, it cannot be verified or falsified.
When something cannot be verified or falsified, there are two logical routes to take: agnosticism of the existence thereof or lack of belief in the existence thereof. Belief in such a thing becomes blind belief, and is thus illogical.

It's the same thing with, say, the yeti, or the loch ness monster.

Jesus said that he will take the pain of all humans. But when you think about it, pain is merely the hum hum that says no more hum hum and hum hum is actually gain and alot of the gain is actually pain, so what you say is you want him to take your gain and that is not good for you at all.

i'm thinking but i can't decide becuase i'm thinking about it due to fear of going to hell is that realy a reason to become christian out of fear???Fear of God can indeed be a reason to become christian. Be honest with yourself.

exactly, things change, some things can be proven though. its proven that the earth is a ball and not a disc

Actually, it's an oblate spheroid. A ball is a toy.

its proven that the sun is hot

Not compared to a white dwarf.

its proven that humans can reproduce

Not all. (please, God, not all...:shake:)

its proven that i played football

Not to us.

its proven that other planets exist in the universe

Ok, 1 out of 6

I see. Well, what ever religion makes you happy i guess. You just need to research a bit...well quite a bit, don't search for your religion on the internet, but just open up their holy books, translations, etc etc and you'll find it.
Everyone probably wants you to convert to what their faith is i guess. I'm Muslim myself, but work it out yourself, what you find to be the true faith and makes you feel so clean and pure and happy. If you need any help with Islam just ask me or Kardak seems willing to help.
Salams.

Umm, empty force of chi, how has it proven? I guess it has stated but never actually PROVEN. As dana d said, 1 out of 6, coincedence? I don't know, it's your religion.
But Islam has stated and proven many scientific factors that were only found out a few years ago...

i'm not sure however this is becuase my brother he turned christian and he said to me you're neot expeting jesus as youre saviour so youre going to hell

If you are worried about it, become a Christian.
Then you can do the same as the other Christians.
ie no different to anyone else.

Why worry? Just be a hypocrite the same as the rest.
Plus, a bonus, if they are right you go to heaven
instead of roasting on a spit.

If you are not worried about it , F--- 'em!

But Islam has stated and proven many scientific factors that were only found out a few years ago...

So, who is it that tells you these lies?

So, who is it that tells you these lies?

ur mum

But Islam has stated and proven many scientific factors that were only found out a few years ago...

For example?
Please be specific.

ur mumProfound answer...

Profound answer...

About as profound as your accusatory question, I'd estimate.

About as profound as your accusatory question, I'd estimate.Elaborate.

i'm thinking but i can't decide becuase i'm thinking about it due to fear of going to hell is that realy a reason to become christian out of fear???

There is no higher religion than the truth which is what you should be looking. If you don't know what you are looking for or what truth even means, you should educate yourself in epistomology before you proceed.