Right now I'm 20 years old. I've got my pilot's license, firearms license, and soon I will have some certification in skydiving and scuba diving. I speak five languages and I've already traveled through a lot of the world (east, west, Europe, Asia, Africa, you name it...). I'm currently doing a Chemical Engineering degree.

When I graduated high school, my parents told me I should consider enlisting. I thought I should first do a degree and then perhaps consider a career in the military. Anyways, I'm graduating a few years and I'm still not quite sure what I want to do. All I know is that I do want to enlist. The question is, in which branch, and doing what? I don't know too much and could use some feedback.

I don't see myself charging down with machine guns. I like to think for myself and not just do physical part. Given my degree and skills I hope to obtain, what would you say? I don't even know if I want to enlist for 2 years, 5 years, or 40 years. All I know is that I'm itching to enlist and do something. And yes, it will be in the American forces, not the Canadian forces.

Air Force...no doubt...well you do like guns so Army might tickle your fancy....but in Air Force you get to control your own f-16....a F-16......5gs of pure puke inducing force at mach one speed, or if you are good on enough and prove yourself you can move up to SR71 blackbird......2100mph of pure speed...you'll be the fastest human being at the time. So it depends on your physical endurance and just general liking......so good luck on whatever you choose and have fun protecting the US.




*puts on hat and grabs whip*........"Now drop and give me 50 maggot":mad:

I should mention this... My eyes aren't the greatest. I can't drive without wearing glasses or contacts. I hope this isn't going to be a problem. :/

I wanted to go into the Navy and be a nuclear technition on a submarine or aircraft carrier. Nuclear power intrestes me and I would get to see the world.

But I know I would miss my family to much.

If I were you I'd just runaway, and find a good puddle to stare at. Don't bother with the army.

air force most definitley. the SR-71 has been retired sargentlard. it's now being used by NASA to study the earth's upper atmosphere. the only way you can fly it is if you're a NASA scientist plus a good pilot.

i feel the air force is a pretty good option. i've been wanting to be a pilot since i was 10, ever since i saw William.J.Knight go
mach 6.7 in the X-15A.

concerning planes, the F-series....F-14, F-15 etc. is shit compared to the MiG series. the SR-71 flies at mach 3.2 and at a little above 80000 feet. it's a reconaissance aircraft. the MiG-25 flies at
mach 3.0 and at a little above 70000 feet. and it's a fighter jet. a fighter jet that's almost as fast as the blackbird......

i salute soviet technology.

Originally posted by airavata
concerning planes, the F-series....F-14, F-15 etc. is shit compared to the MiG series. the SR-71 flies at mach 3.2 and at a little above 80000 feet. it's a reconaissance aircraft. the MiG-25 flies at
mach 3.0 and at a little above 70000 feet. and it's a fighter jet. a fighter jet that's almost as fast as the blackbird......

i salute soviet technology. NOT in this thread. Take it elsewhere. I want to keep this thread clean of anti-Americanisms.

NOT in this thread. Take it elsewhere. I want to keep this thread clean of anti-Americanisms.
Just because someone prefers a non-american plane over an american plane doesn't really mean that the discussion is even semi-close to being anti-american. I'm sure airavata's comment was based on some knowledge about both series of planes and was not based upon a grudge he/she may/may not have with the U.S.

As for the thread at hand: Navy all the way. Can't stand the planes or the land-based groups, but something about being out on a boat for months on end would be kind of appealing to me for some reason. Maybe it's because I really really like water.

F-22 < Mig anything all day everyday anyday end of story.

I've no intention of joining an army, but if i were drafted i'd try to get myself in an intelligence department, preferably in the air force branch.

I'd say that, although the people in the vehicles, ships and air planes do all the hard work, the war could be lost or won by the availability of valid information. That, and playing with the most advanced computers around could fill up a few years nicely without getting bored for a second.

Research would be a good second, though.

Sorry to hear that you are short-sighted Jerrek. So am I, and it also conflicted with my choise of duty in the military.

How do the airforce feel about laser-surgery? I know I would have done it if I had the money.

Laser Surgery Battle – Worthy in U.S. Army’s Eyes
http://www.lasikeyeinstitute.com/articlearmyseyes.htm

now i've heard everything. because i think a soviet plane is better than an american one, i'm anti american? :bugeye:
see this is the sort of thing that tempts me to become one.

i think marat safin is a better tennis player than andy roddick. oh damn i'm an anti american.:bugeye:

Originally posted by airavata
now i've heard everything. because i think a soviet plane is better than an american one, i'm anti american? :bugeye:
see this is the sort of thing that tempts me to become one.

i think marat safin is a better tennis player than andy roddick. oh damn i'm an anti american.:bugeye: No, but looking at your past posts, you seem not to like Americans, AND saying something like this is better than that has great potential for the other side to bring it up and counter it... Not something I want here.

I was thinking of laser eye surgery. My mom had it done and it works great for her. However, I'm not sure what the military thinks about it. If they will allow or encourage it, I think I'd do that before I enlist.

And mouse, thanks... I was also thinking ingelligence of sorts. Thanks guys,

If I was you and know all that stuff. I'd probably join the Air Force.

I thought if you had lasik surgery you would not be allowed to fly any kind of fighter jet because the g forces could ruin your eyes after the surgery. I m not sure though they might have changed it.

Originally posted by Jerrek
All I know is that I do want to enlist. The question is, in which branch, and doing what? I don't know too much and could use some feedback. I don't see myself charging down with machine guns.Oh geeze how you poor kids have been brainwashed. Don't you see the basic inconsistency in your premise? You say that you want to join your country's military force. Then you say, in essence, that you don't want to kill people.

Duh!

What is the fundamental purpose of a military force? To fucking kill people! That's it! Everything else is just "support" for the people who do the killing. Maybe if you're well educated and can do skilled office work, have weak eyesight or some other disability that makes you a poor candidate for the front lines, and manage to be in the Navy during a war that is fought primarily on the ground, you can avoid ever having to actually fire a gun at another human being or even to hold one in your hands. But you're still a goddamned killer.

There are thousands of Americans in Iraq at this very moment. People who joined the Reserves to pick up some spending money and to get the cheap insurance. Or people who signed up for a 2 year or 4 year tour because it gave them a chance to get out of the ghetto or a bad home or a lazy lifestyle. People who figured maybe they'd learn something or just grow up, and it was a safe bet because the Cold War is long gone and there was no chance of ever being handed a gun and told to go kill people.

The fact is indisputable: if you join the military, you are signing up to kill people. In the Bush Dynasty’s First Gulf War, our troops killed thousands of Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with the invasion of Kuwait and would probably have rather been somewhere else. This time they did a better job of minimizing “collateral damage,” the nice clean government code-word for DEAD BABIES, but there was a photo in yesterday’s paper of an Iraqi woman who was burying TEN members of her own household, because one of our so-called “smart” bombs wasn’t quite smart enough.

All the goddamn rednecks (and I am so absolutely fucking fed up with having the Union flag waved in my face by unreconstructed Rebels who won’t even take the Confederate flag down from their own damn racist statehouses) shove their Wild Turkey bottles and their shotguns in our faces and say, “If you agin’ the war it means you ain’t supportin’ our troops, you damn commie hippies.”

Well I’m sorry, but I fucking DON’T support our troops. They are what, in cases of domestic violence rather than political violence, we would all call ENABLERS without a moment's hesitation. The half-wit inbred moron in the White House (another unreconstructed Rebel, from a state with such a tremendous sense of loyalty that it seceded from TWO countries) would not be able to commit his acts of unjustified violence, random cruelty, and destabilization of an entire region for the sake of enriching the people who bought his university diplomas and contributed to his political campaign, if it were not for the THOUSANDS of young people like you say gee, maybe I’ll join the military and see if I can get something out of it.

These are people who have not learned the basic lesson of the Nurmemburg Trials. Even the lowliest soldier is now expected to know right from wrong, and has a duty to disobey orders that violate human dignity. Saying “I vuz chust followink orders” is no longer an acceptable excuse for murdering civilians, bombing non-military targets, or attacking a country without a good cause, simply for the sake of fulfilling the insane dreams of an evil numbskull to take over half the world's petroleum reserves.

The “troops” who are over there conveniently forgetting that they have NOT found any weapons of mass destruction, have NOT taken Saddam into custody, and have NOT punished the people who are responsible for 9-11, almost all of whom live in Saudi Arabia, are accomplices in an act that brings nothing but shame to our country. They are people who simply were not raised right by their mommas. They should be sentenced to go back and let their mommas take another crack at teaching them the difference between right and wrong.

If a thug on the street told them to deliver this bag of crack to the next block for ten bucks, they’d say hey that’s immoral and illegal and I aint’ gonna do it. But when a thug in the White House tells them to bomb the living crap out of a country that happens to be right NEXT to the country that knocked down three of our buildings, but they're all ragheads who belong to the same religion so it doesn’t matter, they all just fly over there like stupid little street punks and do what the thug says.

If you join up, you’re just gonna be another stupid little street punk doing what the thug says. Like most thugs, this one is just a puppet whose strings are being pulled by a bunch of bigger thugs who stay out of sight: a bunch of corporations who don’t care how many Americans or Iraqis have to die so they can get their hands on the Iraqi oil fields.

The only way to stop the corporations of the United States from fulfilling their ambition of turning our once-great country into the world's biggest, baddest bully, is to stop providing them with ENABLERS. Don't join up. If you have a friend who's thinking about joining up, talk him out of it. If you're a parent, teach your kids the difference between right and wrong so that when they become 18 they won't even think about joining up.

Then MAYBE they will live to have families of their own, and there will be a world in which to raise them.

Don't get suckered into being an Oil Whore.

Military sucks.
I guess it depends on your opinion.
Personally, I hate guns.
There are enough of them around here, and joining the military wouldn't make anything better.

But if I had to choose, I'd go with the air force all the way.
It's the only one I'd ever consider joining.
You couldn't pay me enough to join any other branch.

Regardless, you have my support as well as the support of many others if you wish to run the hell away.

Be all you can be.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker:
"Well I’m sorry, but I fucking DON’T support our troops."
Me either.
Die USA!
All hail our great leader Saddam.
hashalamalickem
lick em a mi salami
hamala hamala hamala

Oh geeze how you poor kids have been brainwashed. Don't you see the basic inconsistency in your premise? You say that you want to join your country's military force. Then you say, in essence, that you don't want to kill people.

You're right I don't like killing people, I hate gun, but if I was forced to make a decision as to which group to enlist in, I would make that decision. Being in the armed forces isn't always about killing. Just like Jerrek mentioned, intelligence is an option that does not require shooting any kind of weapon.

If you join up, you’re just gonna be another stupid little street punk doing what the thug says. Like most thugs, this one is just a puppet whose strings are being pulled by a bunch of bigger thugs who stay out of sight: a bunch of corporations who don’t care how many Americans or Iraqis have to die so they can get their hands on the Iraqi oil fields.

Yeah I guess I didn't mention it...I wouldn't be in the American armed forces, I would hide out before they took me into the U.S. armed forces. When I said I would want to go into the Navy I was thinking more along the lines of the Canadian Navy. Not every military force in the world is hostile and tries to kill people you know? I try to think of the Canadian forces as one of them that isn't.

Your absolutly right Fraggle Rock we should let anybody invade our country. We should let a regime that has killed over 2 million continue to slaughter and cause unrest in the middle east. Everybody knows we can solve any problem with a peace sign and flowers.

What is the fundamental purpose of a military force? To fucking kill people! That's it!
Nope, an additional purpose is to be a deterrent. The nuclear weapons paradox is an example. Those weapons can not be launched by any nation, but they nevertheless do provide an excellent negotiating card in today's political atmosphere.

Upon that, i'd like to think of myself as a pacifist who really doesn't want to have anything to do with any violent action. Yet, occasionally, reality does even trickle in with me. You need an adequate force to defend yourself and, moreover, you need an adequate force to assist in international crises. This does not imply that i approve of current developments, as i actually do not.

"intelligence is an option that does not require shooting any kind of weapon."
--------------------
Of course. Instead of killing people, let's tell people who to kill.


"I try to think of the Canadian forces as one of them that isn't."
--------------------
Me too.


"Everybody knows we can solve any problem with a peace sign and flowers."
--------------------
See. That's the spirit! Peace!


"You need an adequate force to defend yourself and, moreover, you need an adequate force to assist in international crises. This does not imply that i approve of current developments, as i actually do not."
--------------------
So what the hell's your point?

So what the hell's your point?
1) You need a military force.
2) You need people to make that happen
3) You not necessarily have to agree with your government's way of using it, to agree with points 1 and 2.

I didn't think it was that difficult to grasp.

Oh brother. The point of me enlisting isn't negotiable. Whether it is worth it isn't the issue. I WILL enlist. You have no say in it. Go rule your own kingdom. I'm merely asking for advice.

I will not join the Canadian forces. They are only slightly better than Tonga's forces which consists of a tape recording shouting "We surrender" in 38 languages. In fact, apart from the British forces, I don't see a point in enlisting in any other country. I've made up my mind. I'm going to serve the United States (my country).

I don't think I'd mind killing people, but I don't want to be on the front line. I wouldn't mind being a sniper or something, or a pilot for a bomber, or so on. I just don't think I want to be the swat team.

I am not a pacifist. I like fighting and I like action.

and hopefully I don't get any comments from my "fan club".

First of all, bravo fraggle rocker, that was the most balls I have ever heard you speak with! I can relate to your frustration of Americans killing people, possibly mostly to gain oil and the rednecks who see absolutely no problem with this or perhaps to be truthful, probably don't see anything at all, i.e. their world is based completely on the constructions of their own thoughts and is quite independent from what their eyes might tell them was reality. Still I disagree with you on the level that I think that the armed forces only function is to kill, although it is surely one of its functions.

We need a military for offense and for defense, because the world can be a particularly savage place as exemplified by the mindset of those unsophisticated rustic types you love so much and because of people like Saddam Hussein. Face it, without a military, some other country with one would probably take us over in one day. This is just an undeniable fact of the world. It is part of most men's nature to be warlike and to try and conquer other people's domains and to encroach upon other's territory. Even Plato wrote about the necessity of warriors in his "ideal" society. So, I understand your frustration but you really cannot be honest with yourself and deny the necessity of a military.

In response to Jerrek, who started this whole ball rolling, I had a friend once that said the "military breaks you to rebuild you". This does not mean that I am advising you not to go into the military, it is just a warning that for better or for worse, that after you have gone through their whole process, you may not be the same person you were when you went in.

Of course. Instead of killing people, let's tell people who to kill.
The cooks that go onto the subs to feed the officers and the people on the boats...do they kill people? Nope. Do they fire off guns? Not likely. Are they part of any of the forces? Sure! Maybe I should be a cook on a submarine.

I don't think I'd mind killing people, but I don't want to be on the front line. I wouldn't mind being a sniper or something, or a pilot for a bomber, or so on. I just don't think I want to be the swat team.
So when it comes to killing the enemy it's all good, but you wouldn't put yourself on the front line to stand up for your country? Sounds like you want to go out and protect your country from the harm of whatever evil may come to it, but you sure as hell don't want to face that evil face on like a man proud of his country should.

I will not join the Canadian forces. They are only slightly better than Tonga's forces which consists of a tape recording shouting "We surrender" in 38 languages.
And that's why I love 'em!

that after you have gone through their whole process, you may not be the same person you were when you went in. I know. My dad served in the air force, and my uncle was navy. I also firmly belief in mandatory service for all men.

So when it comes to killing the enemy it's all good, but you wouldn't put yourself on the front line to stand up for your country? Stop it. That isn't what I said, is it? If it is asked from me, I would do it. But I don't see myself as a grunt that charges. I like to think. Preferrably. That is what this is about, isn't it? What options are available. Are you saying that if your first choice isn't to be on the front line charging you're not really loyal?

Sounds like you want to go out and protect your country from the harm of whatever evil may come to it, but you sure as hell don't want to face that evil face on like a man proud of his country should.
Fuck off, that is just the lowest statement one could make.

Originally posted by Jerrek
I don't think I'd mind killing people. I am not a pacifist. I like fighting and I like action.Well, doesn't that just make you a first-class asshole? In case you haven't figured it out, it's first-class assholes like you that are the reason the world is in the shape that Fredx described.

The vast majority of us are perfectly capable and content to use compromise and diplomacy and patience and creativity, and even the occasional fit of fraud and deceit, to muddle through our disagreements. We don't believe that anybody has to die or have their home blown up or become refugees just because the people who get into power in our countries lose touch with their own humanity.

But you soldier-types, you are just pitiful fucking throwbacks to our ancestors, people who were just too plain stupid to figure out any way to solve a disagreement that didn't involve bashing some other stupid asshole's brains out. People who hadn't grown up enough to learn how to get past their base emotions. People who were too immature to avoid turning arguments into fistfights and fistfights into murders and murders into the destruction of entire cities. I believe the most accurate word we have in our language for you sons of bitches is "barbarians," but it just doesn't do it. I guess "fucking brainless assholes that never outgrew the sandbox because your mommas were completely incompetent" will suffice.

Since you all seem to be so proud of your genetic disorder and happily stand up and identify yourselves as the worst of the human race, it's a damn shame that we can't just pack you all in a gigantic rocket and send you and your beloved weapons off to some planet where you can just start your idiotic little wars and keep fighting and killing each other with those caveman grins on your browless faces, until every last one of you miserable worthless bastards was finally GONE!!!!

Then, maybe, the human race could make some progress and solve our problems without the one or two percent of the population that still carry the genes of predatory animals always jumping up and grabbing their goddamned guns and making it impossible for the rest of us to behave like civilized human beings.

I really hope you get a nice surprise and find yourself on the front lines with all the other shit-for-brains "warriors" on this planet. You don't deserve to share our oxygen. May you and everyone who shares your twisted, retarded outlook on life, all of you who have been stifling the progress of the human race for six thousand years, rot in hell, and the sooner the better.

I think that the people that act the way you are describing really just want you to react in this way. You are giving them what they want.

Anyway, I think Jerrek is for the most part a good guy, and wouldn't hurt anyone unless they really deserved it, like this a** holes that protect Saddam Hussein.

Still, I admire what you are saying here and I think that maybe it will influence some people to change their mind. Still, on a certain level, the world may never change, smart people will choose to be smart and ignorant people will choose to be ignorant, what can you do?

All you are achieveing is too stress yourself out. Still I commend you for standing up for peaceful methods in resolving disputes and for being against violence.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Well, doesn't that just make you a first-class asshole? In case you haven't figured it out, it's first-class assholes like you that are the reason the world is in the shape that Fredx described.

The vast majority of us are perfectly capable and content to use compromise and diplomacy and patience and creativity, and even the occasional fit of fraud and deceit, to muddle through our disagreements. We don't believe that anybody has to die or have their home blown up or become refugees just because the people who get into power in our countries lose touch with their own humanity.

It dosent matter if the majority will be diplomatic it only takes 1 to ruin everything.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
But you soldier-types, you are just pitiful fucking throwbacks to our ancestors, people who were just too plain stupid to figure out any way to solve a disagreement that didn't involve bashing some other stupid asshole's brains out. People who hadn't grown up enough to learn how to get past their base emotions. People who were too immature to avoid turning arguments into fistfights and fistfights into murders and murders into the destruction of entire cities. I believe the most accurate word we have in our language for you sons of bitches is "barbarians," but it just doesn't do it. I guess "fucking brainless assholes that never outgrew the sandbox because your mommas were completely incompetent" will suffice.

Your the reason why people can come to power and cause genocide. You are a little worm that fears the death of a few over the slaughter of millions. Its people like you that say I will not stand up for myself and what I think is right. Think that violence dosent solve anything? how about Communism, Nazism, faschism, colonialism, slavery, fedualism and emperialism. 1 person over the death of millions.

Go preach your nicheolodean politics somewhere else. You are not ready for the real world at all.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Since you all seem to be so proud of your genetic disorder and happily stand up and identify yourselves as the worst of the human race, it's a damn shame that we can't just pack you all in a gigantic rocket and send you and your beloved weapons off to some planet where you can just start your idiotic little wars and keep fighting and killing each other with those caveman grins on your browless faces, until every last one of you miserable worthless bastards was finally GONE!!!!

Hypocrite you are using violence against people you claim are the reason for violence.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Then, maybe, the human race could make some progress and solve our problems without the one or two percent of the population that still carry the genes of predatory animals always jumping up and grabbing their goddamned guns and making it impossible for the rest of us to behave like civilized human beings.

Life without guns would be big people killing anybody that pisses them off. what a nice life. Lets see what the tutsi feel about being disarmed.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
I really hope you get a nice surprise and find yourself on the front lines with all the other shit-for-brains "warriors" on this planet. You don't deserve to share our oxygen. May you and everyone who shares your twisted, retarded outlook on life, all of you who have been stifling the progress of the human race for six thousand years, rot in hell, and the sooner the better.

YOu can go live in your bubble that never will happen. Your world were everybody is happy nobody is evil and most importantly they all think like you. This would be what Hitlers dream?

Originally posted by Salty
I hope you move to someplace where there are a bunch of people that think like you and are killed by the thouhsands. I confess to fantasizing about locking all the hot-headed gun-toters in a big box somewhere else in the universe so they can do what they love to do so much, which is to kill each other, without any of us having to get in the way of their damn bullets. It's probably never going to happen but it is a solution that lets everyone have what they want. The warriors get to have one grandiose war and the other 99 percent of us get to live in peace.

What pisses me off about you guys is that your proposed solution to the problem is to maneuver the 99 percent of us who DON'T want any part of your Neanderthal games into a postion where you get to shoot at US.

I hate you the way I hate cockroaches in my birthday cake, but I don't want to kill you. In fact I'd put a lot of effort into trying to convince you to see the error of your ways. To fantasize about putting you all into a situation where you can kill each other, one that is clearly impossible and just a daydream, is just a healthy way of giving some free rein to my feelings of hatred without actually causing anyone harm. I'd say the defining difference between us is that you hate me therefore you really would like me to die. It's especially ironic since the only reason you hate me is that I don't believe in violence and therefore would never attack you first. I guess you hate pacifists because if we got our way you guys would never be able to kill people and you just couldn't stand that. Gee I feel so sorry for you.

That pretty well sums up the difference between the civilized people on this planet and you guys.

You just like killing. You especially like killing people who can't shoot back, and your most favorite thing of all is to kill people who don't even BELIEVE in killing. Boy, that is really a mature philosophy.

By the way, you already got to see that happen in Tibet. Practically everyone on Earth is mourning the loss of the only pacifist nation of any size to the jackboots of the Communist thugs. But you think it's entertaining.

Again, you don't need anybody to make fun of you. You guys show yourselves to be scum every time you open your mouths or type on your keyboards (very slowly and with two fingers, I'm sure).

Fredx, I don't deny the reality of your assessment of the current state of the planet. Nonetheless, we have way more people in uniform than we need to realistically hold off any kind of threat that the little shithole countries who hate us could possibly muster. All this military might does is encourage our half-wit leaders to start fights, instead of merely setting out a defense force so imposing that nobody would dare attack us.

The Soviet Union is gone. We don't need that huge army any more. If Bush is right (what a laugh) and Iraq really is the biggest threat we have to worry about, all we need for self defense is to give the California Highway Patrol a couple of tanks and some bazookas.

i am so proud of granpy fraggle! it would be an honor to push his wheelchair around, fetch his slippers, clean his dentures.............blah!

attention soldier!
this is your first assignment!

airborne>n korea>parachute in> scout around>report back regularly> pick you up in 6 mths>have fun!>bye!

I agree with you to a certain extent but I feel that having the best military and best weaponry systems in the world really serves its purpose. Only countries that are led by people completely out of their mind would really dare to mess with us at this point. Intimidation and fear work wonders in politics, just read Machiavelli, of course I am not saying they are the most "enlightened" methods to use and that they don't have their drawbacks.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
What pisses me off about you guys is that your proposed solution to the problem is to maneuver the 99 percent of us who DON'T want any part of your Neanderthal games into a postion where you get to shoot at US.

99 percent of people are against what? 99 percent of people cant agree on anything. Are you saying that just because something is unpopular it is not right. We should have let the Nazis kill every jew then. We should have never faught agains great Britan. We should have never stoped the soviets from invading Afghanstan.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
I hate you the way I hate cockroaches in my birthday cake, but I don't want to kill you. In fact I'd put a lot of effort into trying to convince you to see the error of your ways. To fantasize about putting you all into a situation where you can kill each other, one that is clearly impossible and just a daydream, is just a healthy way of giving some free rein to my feelings of hatred without actually causing anyone harm. I'd say the defining difference between us is that you hate me therefore you really would like me to die. It's especially ironic since the only reason you hate me is that I don't believe in violence and therefore would never attack you first. I guess you hate pacifists because if we got our way you guys would never be able to kill people and you just couldn't stand that. Gee I feel so sorry for you.

I hate you because you insulted me. You don't live in the real world where you can't go up to somebody and say please don't kill me nazi Im just a jew what did I do? No your dead sorry. Idealism has probably killed more people then any form of violence ever. You think you can reason with everybody but you can't. have you ever know a sociopath? They think they are the only people with free will. You can't reason with everybody.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
That pretty well sums up the difference between the civilized people on this planet and you guys.

We are the civilized ones you just said you want to take all us "barabrians" (or realistic people) and kill us. Being unarmed and waiting for the United States to save your ass everytime the shit hits the fan is not any kind of moral high ground.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
You just like killing. You especially like killing people who can't shoot back, and your most favorite thing of all is to kill people who don't even BELIEVE in killing. Boy, that is really a mature philosophy.

You don't know me. I don't hurt anybody. I have only been in 1 fight in my entire life. I want everybody armed so there are so everybody can defend themsleves. The reason why innocent people get shot is because they listen to your logic and think "everybody is like me they don't nobody can just kill for the pleasure or is tottaly corrupted by power."

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
By the way, you already got to see that happen in Tibet. Practically everyone on Earth is mourning the loss of the only pacifist nation of any size to the jackboots of the Communist thugs. But you think it's entertaining.

And look what reasoning has done. Is Tibet free? NO! You need "barbarians" to stop evil people.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Again, you don't need anybody to make fun of you. You guys show yourselves to be scum every time you open your mouths or type on your keyboards (very slowly and with two fingers, I'm sure).

If you sit there and watch somebody rape another human being then slash her throat and don't physcially stop it you are a pasifist. I put you in this same catagory. You are not an adult yet.

Don't act like monsters don't exist in this world its completly nieve. There are people in this world that take pleasure in pain of theres.

As long as there are leaders that don't let there people be free there will be war.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stuart Mill

This thread is NOT about the ethics of enlisting or not! My decision has been made! It isn't negotiable. If you don't like it, leave. I want to know what options are available to people that want to enlist. What would YOU enjoy? What are the various parts of the army, navy, air force, and marines?

Fragle Rocker et al...

http://home.cogeco.ca/~johannj/emotes/finger.jpg

Oh brother. The point of me enlisting isn't negotiable. Whether it is worth it isn't the issue. I WILL enlist. You have no say in it. Go rule your own kingdom. I'm merely asking for advice.

This thread is NOT about the ethics of enlisting or not! My decision has been made! It isn't negotiable. If you don't like it, leave. I want to know what options are available to people that want to enlist. What would YOU enjoy? What are the various parts of the army, navy, air force, and marines?

It's funny you say that since one of the options clearly said:
"I'd run away" --and most people voted for that one. If it isn't negotiable, why bother bringing it up?

which just goes to show that brother jer will not be an asset in any branch of the military. from this moment on i predict we will lose every battle. thanks jer! traitor!

however, i think (my most humble opinion), what about "cabin boy"? hmm?
big ship, hunky sailors, randy captain! hmm? what say you? getting a little excited maybe?

*massive attack rules*

Originally posted by Elbaz
It's funny you say that since one of the options clearly said:
"I'd run away" --and most people voted for that one. If it isn't negotiable, why bother bringing it up? Are you always this dumb or are you making a special effort today? The poll is separate from the question. See? There is a question for the poll, and one for the thread. Doesn't take much intelligence to figure that one out.

Spookz, please go sit in the sun and photosynthesize. I'll come around and water you later.

Originally posted by Jerrek
I'll come around and water you later.

too cool. perfect cabin boy material

Are you always this dumb or are you making a special effort today? The poll is separate from the question. See? There is a question for the poll, and one for the thread. Doesn't take much intelligence to figure that one out.

What were the options again, Loveboy? Usually when you post a poll, it has some relevance to the thread. Or (hold your breath) is a question directly related to the topic. In this case, you asked for advice as to what you should do. Like posting a poll about what someones favourite colour is, and then asking people what their asses smell like. Doesn't take much intelligence to admit when you're wrong. :rolleyes: You're hostility says it all...

BTW, maybe after your finished watering spooks, you could come by and give me a drizzle, too *winks*. I can tell you're gonna make a great Sea-man!

Originally posted by Salty
We should have let the Nazis kill every Jew then?Funny you should bring that up. The Nazis didn't actually start killing Jews and Slavs and Gypsies until the war started. Then they were able to use the combination of public hysteria, news censhorship, and general disorder, to do something even the hopped up Germans would not have tolerated in peacetime. They found correspondence from the capital urging the military to increase the pace of execution, because they expected the war to end soon and they knew that even a VICTORIOUS Germany would not be able to continue killing Jews in peacetime. It can be argued that if WWII hadn't happened, those six million Jews would have survived. That's one of the many things wrong with war as a solution to a problem. It turns bad people into evil people, and it turns ordinary people into people who look the other way and tolerate evil.We should have never faught against great Britain?There are plenty of historians who would agree with that statement. Canada and Australia just waited patiently for Britain's leadership to catch up with post-Renaissance thinking and got their independence without bloodshed. America always jumps the gun and starts a war to accomplish something that would have happened soon enough anyway. The Civil War is another example. It haunts our politics and our race relations to this day. Every other country in the New World except Haiti found peaceful ways to free their slaves, it just took a little longer, and look at them today. Everybody is just different shades of brown.We should have never stoped the Soviets from invading Afghanstan?Well duh. Now you've got me wondering if you even keep up with the news. We created the Taliban to keep the Soviet-backed Northern Alliance from taking over the country. Wasn't that a brilliant strategy? Always remember, "You can never do just one thing."I hate you because you insulted me.Well, so I did. This topic seems to bring out the bile in people. I apologize. I'm sure you're quite a decent fellow who I would enjoy sitting and talking with. I have plenty of friends who feel as you do and I usually manage to avoid blurting out that I hate them. Nonetheless this illustrates my point. I have yelled nasty epithets at quite a few people over the years, but I seem to have no trouble leaving it at that. I've never raised a hand to my fellow man no matter how angry I was.You don't live in the real world where you can't go up to somebody and say please don't kill me Nazi Im just a Jew what did I do?Yes I do. I understand that the Kingdom has not yet been established. But I sincerely believe that the Busheviks are the people who are in the wrong this time. There is no excuse for launching an unprovoked attack at a sovereign nation, no matter how many lies you tell your own subjects about it having nuclear weapons or enough capital to finance Al Qaeda. It is clearly possible to have way too big an army, and it tempts unprincipled men like Bush and Rumsfeld into going out looking for trouble.We are the civilized ones. You just said you want to take all us "barbarians" (or realistic people) and kill us.No, I said I fantasized about putting you all in a big pit together and letting you kill each other. I would simply like to find a way to prevent all of you from passing on your sickness to future generations. And yes I realize that will do no good if the other countries aren't doing the same thing.Being unarmed and waiting for the United States to save your ass everytime the shit hits the fan is not any kind of moral high ground.Actually I'm a registered Libertarian and I campaign passionately for the Second Amendment. The gun enthusiasts I know are perfectly happy to leave me gunless. We all agree that there just need to be enough armed people in the country to discourage the government from turning all of America into one big airport check-in line. I absolutely believe that guns don't kill people, people kill people.You don't know me. I don't hurt anybody. I have only been in 1 fight in my entire life.Yes, and I'll apologize for the second time. I'm sure you're a nice person who got carried away with the rhetoric. Talk of war does that to folks.I want everybody armed so everybody can defend themsleves.That's not too different from the Libertarian position. I think there are a lot of people who should definitely not be allowed within half a mile of a lethal weapon and I'm probably one of them just because I have a tendency to be klutzy.You need "barbarians" to stop evil people.No, you need warriors, and there is a huge difference. A warrior is one who defends those who cannot defend themselves. Either because they are weak, old, members of a downtrodden minority, or simply a civilization that runs on division of labor and not everybody has the training to be a warrior because somebody's got to be teachers and bakers. What you're talking about is soldiers, people who don't fight on principle but just follow orders. Soldiers are OK as long as they're under the leadership of a warrior. You put them under the leadership of a merchant or a banker or a bureaucrat, to use for the purpose of accumulating power instead of defending the weak, and you've got one big problem. Or worse yet, put them under the control of a puppet who doesn't even realize he's being manipulated by merchants and bankers and bureaucrats. Then your soldiers end up killing civilians just to gain control of some oil wells that will all be dry in a hundred years anyway.If you sit there and watch somebody rape another human being then slash her throat and don't physcially stop it you are a pacifist.No, that's an extreme type of pacifist like some of the Eastern Mystics. I don't put myself in that category. I don't have a gun and the world is probably a safer place for it, but I wouldn't hesitate to grab a couple of people and overpower the rapist, even if it put me at risk of being wounded by his knife. Most of us have at least a faint instinct to be a warrior that comes into play when we see someone being hurt. I tell you, my wife has had to sit on me a couple of times because I was going to lay into a couple of bitches who were beating up their children in the supermarketDon't act like monsters don't exist in this world, its completly naive. There are people in this world that take pleasure in the pain of others.Of course there are. But every time you assemble a huge military force in peacetime you run the risk of putting them all together in one place.As long as there are leaders that don't let their people be free there will be war.Gandhi disproved that.

Jerrek, do some real research on the military sites (army.mil navy.mil usmc.mil af.mil) And find out the requirements for the jobs you want. Example: To be an airforce pilot you need a college degree and perfect vision without corrective lenses (no contacts or glasses)

Don't be thinking "sniper! awesome! It'll be just like in the movies!" Do some actual research on the job.

My opinion based solely on nothing substantial is the Marines because you will get the better training and life experience from it. (can be argued...but it's just an empty opinion)

Wanna enlist?

http://www.americasarmy.com/

:D

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Funny you should bring that up. The Nazis didn't actually start killing Jews and Slavs and Gypsies until the war started. Then they were able to use the combination of public hysteria, news censhorship, and general disorder, to do something even the hopped up Germans would not have tolerated in peacetime. They found correspondence from the capital urging the military to increase the pace of execution, because they expected the war to end soon and they knew that even a VICTORIOUS Germany would not be able to continue killing Jews in peacetime. It can be argued that if WWII hadn't happened, those six million Jews would have survived. That's one of the many things wrong with war as a solution to a problem. It turns bad people into evil people, and it turns ordinary people into people who look the other way and tolerate evil.

Ohh my bad they were just dehumanizing them with arm bands on them. :rolleyes: They would have still died and more would have died if we let him continue. You act like it was the the rest of Europe that attacked Hitler. He was the aggressor I guess we should have let him execute every minority in Britan and US to.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
There are plenty of historians who would agree with that statement. Canada and Australia just waited patiently for Britain's leadership to catch up with post-Renaissance thinking and got their independence without bloodshed. America always jumps the gun and starts a war to accomplish something that would have happened soon enough anyway. The Civil War is another example. It haunts our politics and our race relations to this day. Every other country in the New World except Haiti found peaceful ways to free their slaves, it just took a little longer, and look at them today. Everybody is just different shades of brown.

1841 Canda rebeled against Britan. (so non-violent) 1848 They are given thier independence. Then Britan focuses on it main colony India. So guess what Canadians got their independence because Inida was alot more valuable and they needed the resources. So yeah Canada got thier independence but only because India lost thiers.


Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Well duh. Now you've got me wondering if you even keep up with the news. We created the Taliban to keep the Soviet-backed Northern Alliance from taking over the country. Wasn't that a brilliant strategy? Always remember, "You can never do just one thing."


The taliban only rose because we pulled out. That created a power vacuum and tadah you got a fundamintalist regime. Ill take 911 over a super power like the soviets taking over the middle east.

Just read the rest of your post lets agree to dis agree on the size of the military.

Funny topic I was at MEPS in Sac Town like 2-3 months ago. I was all gung ho about joining the Navy. I got a 93 on the ASVAB, and passed the physical. But when I was sitting in from of the dude that helps you find a job, the little voice said, just sign nothing and go home now. So thats what I did. Once I was the whole gung ho navy thing sorta just left. Maybe they pump something in the air in meps and the recruiting station, or that was all I needed to see to make my mind up about not joining. Like another said, its not for everyone. And its 4 years minimum now, or at least thats what 'THEY' said. That was too long for me to sign my life away. I hate taking orders, and am a few credits short of a degree for OTC or whatever its called.

Hope you figure out what you want out of life and do it. Personally Navy for me if I do just due to my love for the ocean.

Navy or Airforce..... Pick one of those.

Smart move, Rev. I personally think that no matter how good your intentions, it is decreasingly possible to "serve America" in the military now. Volunteering to follow orders under the current foreign policy initiative, young people can actually hurt the future of our country. Without a national debate, the US is now embarked on a new experiment with watered-down colonialism, and involved in a gigantic game of chicken with radical Islam. Good servicepeople will be killing and dying for the wrong reasons for several years to come. The present and next few wars will be ones thinking patriots should sit out.

Jerrek, watch events and mature a little bit before you decide to heed the call of the American mujaheddin. Things will be clearer away from the killzones, and trust me there is nothing worthwhile to learn from mortal combat, and adrenaline and pride can be summoned with greater frequency in other pursuits.

Right now I'm 20 years old. I've got my pilot's license, firearms license, and soon I will have some certification in skydiving and scuba diving. I speak five languages and I've already traveled through a lot of the world (east, west, Europe, Asia, Africa, you name it...). I'm currently doing a Chemical Engineering degree.

You are FAR too talented for a career in the military. But if you must, with your assets, you should join the Navy or Air Force and fly. While the US military provides some of the best training, you may still want to see what some of the armed forces of other countries may offer. Oh and there is this:http://www.cia.gov/employment/index.html

growing up with it, ive never really thought about going anywere else if i ever did decide to take the military path. Im not sure what i would do, i wouldn't want to fly but there are so many options these days, the navy isn't limited to water, the air force isn't limited to air, etc...

Originally posted by Jerrek
Right now I'm 20 years old. I've got my pilot's license, firearms license, and soon I will have some certification in skydiving and scuba diving. I speak five languages and I've already traveled through a lot of the world (east, west, Europe, Asia, Africa, you name it...). I'm currently doing a Chemical Engineering degree.

When I graduated high school, my parents told me I should consider enlisting. I thought I should first do a degree and then perhaps consider a career in the military. Anyways, I'm graduating a few years and I'm still not quite sure what I want to do. All I know is that I do want to enlist. The question is, in which branch, and doing what? I don't know too much and could use some feedback.

I don't see myself charging down with machine guns. I like to think for myself and not just do physical part. Given my degree and skills I hope to obtain, what would you say? I don't even know if I want to enlist for 2 years, 5 years, or 40 years. All I know is that I'm itching to enlist and do something. And yes, it will be in the American forces, not the Canadian forces.

change parents

First things first, the answer to your question: The Navy, maybe Naval aviation but I think learning to operate a ship is, in the long run much more satisfying (if slightly less thrilling).

Now to the back-up and commentary. I truly admired your attempts to gentle the idiots and ravers. Yes fraggle is it??? You may be called on to kill. That IS so and will ALWAYS BE so. Very often the need is fomented by characters such as you who would rather rant than think, and face facts. The `little boys' in Baghdad who lost their limbs were the very ones raising them in jubilation September of 2001when 3,000 other souls were mercilessly destroyed. Some of the missing hands were undoubtedly clutching firearms when they were blown off.

War is hell junior but slavery and human ovens are hell too.

Your right to rave was bought by people like me who left parts of our lives and bodies on foreign soil (I lost my right eye fighting for the country that protects little s--ts like you).

On me and my qualifications: started flying, still one of the finest experiences in life, at age 12 in 1946, soloed on my 16th in 1950, quit engineering school to go gung ho and join the Airborne and KILL commies (Yes and I'd do it again! If you really THINK, read Ayn Rand as well as Karl Marx. There is a saying, Communist are people who have read Karl Marx, anti-Communists are people who UNDERSTAND Karl Marx!). Went to Korea, had some excitement and did find much to commend Military life; however, for better or worse (I think better) I KNEW what I wanted, to design and build buildings.

Now, why Navy:


It is by far the most professional and historically endowed of all the forces
Modern aircraft are as much chore as delight to fly
Life at sea (later as a civilian) offers more freedom than just about any other life style
You may do far less killing (at least you won't have to look at your victims!-( Just don't join the Seals now those are some real bad a--es)
The career development is far better and higher (airline pilots are just glorified chauffeurs)


Finally on MIGs: always love to hear amateurs talk like experts, went to the Ukraine a few years ago to see about bringing some back. The `marvel' in their engineering is that they didn't fall apart with such horrendously poor workmanship. No one can accuse the Russians of being stupid or cowardly; they are definitely NOT. But they were trapped in one of the most criminally insane forms of government ever created for four score years, it leaves its mark.

Born free in 1934 (back then they'd simply commit anyone who claimed government had a right to control firearms) I have as much beef with our government as anyone, but at least we tried, tried hard, and we did more than anyone ever before. Maybe we can get it back. I see much of value in some of the young people here, people like the original poster, good luck to you, with my best, HBH

If i had to enlist and i was going to go down......i would enlist in the Air Force....what better way to go then in a blazing fireball of glory...plus you get to fly a cool jet.

he's asking for advice for which of the 3 branches will give him best experience, best exposure etc. strange how so many people have forgotten that and have posted about how they want to 'go down in a blaze of glory.' :rolleyes:

Good ta see ya' want ta serve yo country boy.

Ay' don't care which one ya join, jus git that uniform on, git out thar an kill sum lil' brown fellas. Or, git yo ass shot live on TV, so's ay can laugh at ya havin ta piss in a bag for th' res o' yer laff.

Yor country needs ya.

git out thar an kill sum lil' brown fellas.

:rolleyes: and they say there is a god.

Jesus fucking christ.
Jerrek said from the start he didn't want any anti-war/ anti-american bullshit in this thread. He said thats not what its about. He made a point to say that and then some people kicked up a stink saying that he said it out of context and then what? Everyone starts going on with the crap anyway.
What the hells wrong with you? Can't you tell the difference between different topics?
If you ask me the whole we+p section could go in one thread called "I hate america" and the every post could be editted to say "me too" and essentially it would still be the same thing it started out as.
My point is don't stink up a thread in the free thoughts forum with that overworked garbage. Surely you should have got it all out of your systems in we+p by now and if you haven't go back in there and post another "me too". Keep doing that till you're satisfied. Don't keep your ears pricked for the word 'military' to pop up so you can say "peace rules" in a few more words but with no more meaning.
:mad:

Jerrek,
You should train to be a hitman for the government or something. Now that would be cool. Snipering high ranked generals... and maybe the odd elderly woman just to piss off some of the people in this thread....

... Or why not skip the middle man, become a politician and bomb any third world country you fancy... Old people, young, who cares?
Kill em all - let God sort em out!

I appologize for stinking up your thread, I must have mis-understood the whole FREE THOUGHTS concept.

P.S. I was'nt being anti-American, I was being anti-arsehole
(I can see how the subtle difference might be confusing).

I was'nt being anti-American, I was being anti-arsehole

what difference?:p

Fraggle; I've had time to read more of your postings and must recant having called you a little shit.

There is true intelligence there, a `registered Libertarian' no less.
I suspect you consider yourself provocateur.
Rather, reading your writing, the words speak of Schizophrenia.
A conflicted mind that can not come to grips with your weakness and cowardice and seeks to rationalize them as virtues.

How wonderful it would be if your fine brain were freed of the burden of subjective idiocy.
I fear however, you will never be able to ratiocinate without psychotherapy.

Till then, Little is BIG.

stop discriminating people because of their different opinion. Even if someone doesn't agree with you doesn't necessarily mean he's a psycho or something like that. Really immature statements. Calling other people pieces of shit without any specific reason is something very dumb. Especially if you're not sure of what you're saying.

I like the way Fraggle Rocker points out today's problems. I wouldn't doubt he knows what he's talking about. From my point of view it is legitimate to become angry with certain of today's events.

As for the topic. It's free thoughts men! Whenever someone posts a thread it is not forbidden to make excursions.

Stay away from military. You waste your very best time (when you're young) and your life as well. You won't be a better man, you won't gain in honor or things you're promised. Big lies, all frickin publicity! All you get is an education which means nothing, poor food and wage. Being brainwashed by the military means losing everything that makes you what you are. :bugeye:

I live in Switzerland and military is mandatory here. But it plays a completely different role. It's just 21 weeks consisting of basic training and nothing more. For the "good" guys it's just a sort of vacation. For the "wrong" ones it may be a re-education, but that's a good thing. We don't have the need to send young people to defend our country. That's a silly thought I think. Why not focusing more on cooperation between countries????

Air Force for many outstanding reasons. They are by far the best branch of the military for housing, promotions, food, esprite de corps and teamwork. I wouldn't want to be living out at sea in a cot with another bunkmate 2 feet above me in the Navy. The other branches I'm not certain about living standards. If I were you I'd ask all your questions to each one of them and see which one answered them to your satisfaction, then that would be the one I'd go with as long as they would put their answers in WRITING! If they promise you things, make them put it in WRITING.

If it were me, and I was gonna enlist, I'd try for the air force and then go work for NASA. ;) The eyesight may be a problem there though...

the military sucks...I wasted 14 months of my life there.

Doesnt anybody want to be a medic or army doctor?